Opinions and thoughts needed, please! (Longish)

[BMW]

My kids used to live with me. Their dad paid child support.

 

They have spoken about child support with my children. My children supposedly want to know why mom doesn't pay child support because dad always had to pay... why am I not giving them money?

 

My basic needs are met by my dh. I still make $300 a month and I use that to pay my own bills... my cell phone, fuel in my own vehicle and other bills like the dentist. I currently owe about $2700 in bills (dentist, attorney, etc) that I pay on.

 

I do have an attorney to turn for if necessary.

 

I just wonder... Do they think a judge would turn to a mom who has no career, but who works part time and take her $300 away? I know I will ask my lawyer, but I just wonder... I cannot work full time because I am married and my stepsons have high needs. They cannot be at home alone. Wouldn't a judge (if my story is true and verifiable, which it is) tell the other parents (who make multiple times what we do) that they can be thankful to have the kids and back off... or give the kids back to me and pay child support? Would a judge tell me that I have to go to work full time? That makes NO sense when the kids are currently WELL provided for. They have all the food they need... they have their own bedrooms... they have plans to go out of the country on vacation, for heaven's sake (I've been asked to meet them at the post office to sign passwork papers!) Why the heck can't they leave my $300 alone? Am I not allowed to meet my own needs?

 

So... sorry so long... opinions???? Anyone with experience in this lately???? Thoughts, outside of me retaining my attorney? (My dh would gladly pay for that... and he makes LESS than my ex husband's partner)

 

Thanks... I usually hesitate to post about personal information.... but the reason I don't isn't valid right now...

 

Thanks.

Edited August 10, 2011 by BMW

[gingersmom]

Child support is based on how much you earn. So while they would not order you to pay $300 they might order you to pay a portion of your income as child support.

 

If your husband has custody and your kids are under 18, I could see a judge ordering you to pay child support.

[Parrothead]

 

why am I not giving them money?

 

 

Them as the children want to know why they personally aren't getting money from you or them as in dad and step-mom?

[Pamela H in Texas]

Generally? Yes, they would turn to you and tell you to get a job and pay X% in child support. Here, choosing to make $300/mo wouldn't be an option because the LOWEST child support you can be ordered to pay is 20% (one kid) of minimum wage. And most people would have an issue if you had a problem with it because it isn't about how much dh makes but that every parent takes care of their children.

 

Would it be ordered in your situation if you need to be there for stepkids? I don't know. They *could* pardon you. Or they *could* say that that is dh and exdw's job to worry about and you still need to provide for your kids.

 

Now, of course, if you had to go get a job, your dh and his ex would have to work out arrangements for the children. That would cost money. How much would they have to pay to do that? Could they pay you that? Then you are taking care of your kids and they still have their kids taken care of also.

Edited August 9, 2011 by 2J5M9K

[BMW]

Dad's girlfriend told me that one of my kids wanted to know why I am not paying child support....

 

I used the California child support calculator and according to using my ex's income ($60,000) and mine, I could make even twice as much and not pay child support...

 

I mean really.... good grief! It's not that I don't want to help my kids. I have simply spent over 21 years staying at home, nurturing and teaching them and have poured myself into their lives and not had a career. Now that I am working and pay for my basic expenses... they want to take some away? (not my kids, their "parents")

 

MY plan is to bless them with special things for birthdays and holidays and enjoy them when I get visits with them.

 

Child support is based on income and my income is so small compared to his...

Edited August 10, 2011 by BMW

[ezrabean2005]

This is going to vary based on what state you are in. If one parent (in this case, you) is not making much money, they can still sometimes use a "potential income" figure. Which would be how much they could expect you to make if you worked full time making a low to average amount.

 

Then they'll add your income (or potential income) together with our ex-husband's income. They would not add the amount that your children's step-mother makes into this equation. They are trying to determine the standard of living your children would have if you lived together. Then they credit a certain amount based on parenting time, child care costs, health insurance costs, etc. Then they divide that between you (based on parenting time). You would have credits added for your step-children that live with you. There is also a limit to how much of your income they can use for child support.

 

The result would be how much you'd pay in child support. Again, this is only how it works in the state of MN. :grouphug: I can understand both positions - you at home / part time work, but also your ex with five children to care for. If it was reversed, I'd be rooting for you to get financial support.

 

Hopefully you will get some good guidance from your lawyer. Sorry this is happening to you. :grouphug:

[BMW]

Pamela, I get that... but really? When dad's income and their current lifestyle is so much higher than mine???

 

They are all heading out of the country to vacation each year.... They are members of a tennis sports club that costs $180 a month! They buy my dd $100 pairs of jeans, etc. etc.

 

I just cannot imagine when the scales are tipped this way... If my income DOUBLES I still don't make enough to pay child support. And with the economy? I would hope a judge would laugh at them and wish them a happy family vacation....

[Pretty in Pink]

You could be ordered to pay a portion of your 300.00, yes.

 

The way child support was calculated in my divorce was as follows:

 

Add the amount I made and the amount dh made per month (say I made 1500.00 and he made 3000.00, so 4500.00 total). The court figures that a child is entitled to, say, 15% of their parents' combined monthly income (15% of 4500.00 = 675.00). I made 1/3 of the total income, so I was responsible for 1/3 of that 675.00 (which is 225.00) ; he made 2/3 of the income, so he was responsible for 2/3 of that 675.00 (which is 450). The child lived with me, so he had to pay the 450.00.

 

If our son had lived with him I am not sure whether I would have had to pony up the entire 225.00, or whether the judge might have considered that I was already on a very limited income and ordered me to pay less.

 

ETA: I don't think a judge would necessarily be inclined to factor either your stepchildren or your own children's step-parent into the equation. The judge looks at what the child's life would be like if both biological parents were living together. You might be ordered to seek more gainful employment. You should really consult an attorney if you think you ex is serious about getting money from you.

 

Regardless, if such an equation were used in your situation your 300.00 is practically nothing compared to his monthly income of ~5000.00. Your portion would be negligible, at best.

Edited August 9, 2011 by Pretty in Pink

[bettyandbob]

child support is supposed to provide for the children as they would if the two parents were together. There are formulas that look at both parents' incomes and determine how much would be spent on a child based on a family with that income. So, your ex's wife's income would not be considered. You likely would not be asked to pay $300 a month, but you may be asked to pay a share that is calculated based on comparing your income and his, but I can only imagine that would be an almost meaningless amount.

 

Another thing that might be considered is if you were working when the marriage was intact.

 

You'll need to talk to a family law attorney in your state.

 

It is truly inappropriate for your ex to discuss this with the kids. I would hope that a judge would make that clear. It could be viewed as an attempt at alienation of affection--IMO.

 

 

ETA: I don't think issues with step kids figure at all. They weren't part of the "family" being considered.

Edited August 9, 2011 by betty

[ezrabean2005]

Pamela, I get that... but really? When dad's income and their current lifestyle is so much higher than mine???

 

They are all heading out of the country to vacation each year.... They are members of a tennis sports club that costs $180 a month! They buy my dd $100 pairs of jeans, etc. etc.

 

I just cannot imagine when the scales are tipped this way... If my income DOUBLES I still don't make enough to pay child support. And with the economy? I would hope a judge would laugh at them and wish them a happy family vacation....

 

It makes little difference how much either of you make - the point is he probably wants some order made (even as $0 of your $300), which could be revised every couple of years as you make more money. The order would still allow him to have some agreement in the court records that you are taking care of your children financially.

[Parrothead]

Edited for privacy.

Edited August 10, 2011 by Parrothead

[Parrothead]

 

It is truly inappropriate for your ex to discuss this with the kids. I would hope that a judge would make that clear. It could be viewed as an attempt at alienation of affection--IMO.

:iagree:Nor the girlfriend.

[Pamela H in Texas]

If your state takes in account both incomes, not just yours, then you don't need to worry about it. If your state expects you to pay X% of your income based on the number of kids, then you will have to pay. Your husband's and his wife's income should never come into play though. Does any state go that far? I should hope not.

 

Anyway, I do agree with Betty that it is inappropriate for it to be discussed with the kids. The kids didn't come up with that on their own. And I would be willing to bet that if they did think about it, they'd probably agree with you, not them anyway.

 

If you want my opinion? One way or another, I do believe you should be paying something (unless the state says otherwise). How much depends on your state.

[Carrie12345]

My cs case is based in NJ. CS is considered to be the responsibility of both parents, regardless of income. Even though I have physical custody, I have an imputed income reflective of my potential earnings, a portion of which is my expected contribution toward my son's living expenses.

 

Of course I wind up spending more than that plus the received child support (when it's received), but the point is supposed to be that both parents contribute to the best of their ability.

 

The judge in our case does NOT like that I do not work, but his personal opinion is irrelevant, since the imputed income arrangement was devised for scenarios like this.

 

Also, new spouses/lovers have zero rights and, therefore, zero legal responsibility in cs cases. (At least, in NJ!)

[Wheres Toto]

In NJ they would compare my income to Exh's income and use a formula to calculate child support. Because in the past I worked making nearly what Exh makes, he could say I am currently "under earning" and make a claim that I could make more. But, I can make a claim that I now have two young children to take care of and appropriate childcare would need to be taken out of my income number before the formula is used. DH's income is at least twice what exh makes, possibly more, but his income is not taken into consideration at all. If we wanted to, we could technically make a claim against exh for child support. We never have because he's always paid half of her (very expensive) dance expenses, although we did have to make the threat once or twice he's always come around in the end. We also have completely joint physical and legal custody - straight 50/50.

 

If you've never worked making more money, and therefore there is no history showing you could make more income, in a crappy job market, they'd have a hard time showing that you are under earning. Add in special needs for the other children (although since they are not your biological children I'm not sure how they would look at it).

[BMW]

In our marriage, I was a stay at home mom, homeschooling and dh preferred that as much as I did. He didn't want me to work.

 

This is as much as I have ever made in income, outside of college years prior to marriage. I have no degree. I have very little job experience.

 

I do believe in support my kids. When they come for a visit, I spend money on them. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around the notion that I should be supporting their needs when they have none! Really? Go after a stay at home mom's $300 income? They're really low, imo, to consider that....

[Carrie12345]

In our marriage, I was a stay at home mom, homeschooling and dh preferred that as much as I did. He didn't want me to work.

 

This is as much as I have ever made in income, outside of college years prior to marriage. I have no degree. I have very little job experience.

 

I do believe in support my kids. When they come for a visit, I spend money on them. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around the notion that I should be supporting their needs when they have none! Really? Go after a stay at home mom's $300 income? They're really low, imo, to consider that....

 

I disagree. If every divorced/split couple were allowed to determine the definitions of "need" and "enough", the vast majority of children would be completely screwed. That's why we have regulations. Regulations that I'm assuming you were fine with adhering to when the kids lived with you.

[mommaduck]

The girlfriend's income definitely doesn't count...they aren't married.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I do believe in support my kids. When they come for a visit, I spend money on them.

 

What if your exhubby had subscribed to that theory?

 

Bee, of course we want to pull for you because YOU are our friend, not him. But seriously, parents need to support their kids PLUS take care of them on visit weeks. That is just how it is. Whether one is rich or poor doesn't really matter. Simply, all parents pay to support their children to the degree they are liable by law (and/or able, whichever is more).

[BMW]

Really, Carrie? When they lived with me and I received child support, it was never enough and my husband spent hundreds every month to make ends meet.

 

Now they have everything they could possible need...

 

I've already researched our states child support calculator... it calculates that I should pay nothing. If I double my income in the calculator, it still shows that I owe nothing.

 

I spend $50 each month in travel expenses for visitation. During our monthly weekends I usually spend another $50 on "enjoyment" (a movie, out to eat, etc.) and I usually take at least two of them shopping and buy things for them (bought 15yos shorts and flip flops... good ones, for example). And the money spent is usually provided by my dh.

 

My husband pays for my automobile and car insurance. I'd like to pay for those myself. I do not make enough money.

 

So, you really think my children are not getting enough support when I cannot even pay for my own needs and they have everything they need already?

 

I understand that there are some parents who make more and just don't give to their children. This is not the case.

 

PS There were months where ex did NOT pay child support. Dh stepped in and covered what was needed.

Edited August 10, 2011 by BMW

[Carol in Cal.]

When you remarried, you lost the right to spousal support I'm thinking. It's a lot of money, too. I think it continues for half the number of years you were married, and it's a significant amount of money--intended to provide for a transition to being able to be self-supporting. Then child support depends on imputed income (that means the higher of what you earn or what you reasonably could earn) and on proportion of time that the children spend in your care and on how many children there are. No judge is going to put the children into your care unless you sue or their present setting is unsafe. The status quo always dominates. If you sue, you have to show that the children would be better served by seeing more of you, or that you are the more cooperative parent wrt visitation. It has to be seen by the judge as in the best interests of the children to make a change.

 

I don't defend this, but it is the way the law works in CA.

[Impish]

I disagree. If every divorced/split couple were allowed to determine the definitions of "need" and "enough", the vast majority of children would be completely screwed. That's why we have regulations. Regulations that I'm assuming you were fine with adhering to when the kids lived with you.

 

What if your exhubby had subscribed to that theory?

 

Bee, of course we want to pull for you because YOU are our friend, not him. But seriously, parents need to support their kids PLUS take care of them on visit weeks. That is just how it is. Whether one is rich or poor doesn't really matter. Simply, all parents pay to support their children to the degree they are liable by law (and/or able, whichever is more).

:iagree:

Non custodial parents are not allowed to deduct the cost of having the kids for a wknd, be it for outings or travel.

 

Its about what the judge says the kids deserve...and generally, the judge will deem that the children deserve financial support from both parents, regardless of how much that actually is.

 

I know there are guidlines that state how much a parent has to make before paying, but I've also heard of parents being 'under employed' and being ordered to find better jobs, or take on a 2nd.

 

I doubt the situation with your step kids would even register. Technically, they're not your legal responsibility in the eyes of the court, and therefore its up to your dh and his ex to provide what they need, not you, and would have no bearing on your case.

 

Just as your dh's income wasn't factored in to what your ex was ordered to pay, his gf's income has nothing to do with anything.

[BMW]

I've always believed, until now (as in this thread) that child support depends on the parents income.

 

I have no desire to get into a custody battle... been there, done that and I won. But, I wont put my children in the middle like that again.

 

So... right now it's about getting though the next 6 years amicably until the youngest is 18....

 

I wish you could see my tears. This really does hurt.

Edited August 10, 2011 by BMW

[Carrie12345]

<Enter something deep and witty here.>

Edited August 10, 2011 by Carrie1234
:-)

[mommaduck]

:grouphug:

 

Unfortunately, reality and fairness rarely go hand in hand. I do hope you get a sympathetic judge.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I've already researched our states child support calculator... it calculates that I should pay nothing. If I double my income in the calculator, it still shows that I owe nothing.

 

Problem solved. If you legally, when inputting only reasonable additions into the calculator (I assume it doesn't ask what you spend on visits, his gf's income, etc) and it says you don't owe, then legally, you are not required to pay child support.

 

"Dear children, I am so sorry you are in the middle about this. Legally, I do not have to pay child support and I am not in a position to do so. Your needs are met with the current arrangement as far as I can see as well as as far as the state of California can see. If things change, we will adjust the arrangement. I don't want you to worry about it though as you are children and this is an adult issue. You should not have to be in the middle of an adult issue."

[Carrie12345]

 

I wish you could see my tears. This really does hurt.

 

:grouphug:

I hate that this hurts you.

[elfgivas]

:grouphug:

 

i think you said that the kids birthfather's girlfriend made a comment to you about the children wondering why you didn't pay child support? is that right? and that is all that has been said?

 

multiple things come to mind. maybe the kids said that, maybe they didn't. maybe its what your ex thinks, maybe it isn't. maybe its what your ex's girlfriend thinks.....

 

in any case, triangulation is bad. ie. if the kids have something to say to you, they are old enough to say it. it should not come thru anyone, particularly not your ex's girlfriend....

 

so i would just let it go, and not mention it to the kids or your ex.... it is possible they have no idea she said that, and its not a can of worms i would want to be the first to open.

 

meanwhile, i would know where i stand legally, and then just let it go. life's too short.

 

:grouphug:

ann

[BMW]

Imp, my husbands wife is dead. The child support calculator in California does account for the percentage of time the non custodial parent has the children and the costs involved. It specifically asks and you type in the amounts.

 

If I take on a job with more hours, it would be a great hardship.

 

But, that's what life is at times, huh? I am who my husband has. It's the two of us...

 

You all have given me a strong perspective to consider, though.

 

By the way, the "parents" of my kids told me that they would not ask for child support when the kids went to live with them... but, then again, they haven't ever done what they've said either.

 

SO, next questions: If the child support calculator says that I don't owe support based on our incomes, do you think I should be paying out of my $300 a month? If you were the judge, would you be likely to order me to work more?

Edited August 10, 2011 by BMW

[Carrie12345]

<Enter something deeper and wittier here.>

Edited August 10, 2011 by Carrie1234
:-)

[BMW]

PS Thanks. I am a bit emotional right now. I know that none of you are picking on me. I really did ask for opinions. Now I guess I need a hug. And my attorney...

And Pamela, I love that letter you penned! (well, typed!) I think I will adapt it for my family!

Edited August 10, 2011 by BMW

[ktgrok]

Well, look at it this way. If the kids were still living with you, and your ex decided not to work, and to let his money lady support him, would you be ok with him not paying you child support? Because it would be the same thing in the eyes of the law....just my thoughts.

 

And wow, once again I'm glad my ex and I have a very very good working/parenting relationship.

[Liza Lee]

Quote removed at BMW's request

 

Have you discharged the debt, or just not forced your ex to pay?

 

If you have simply ignored the debt, then you need to roll your eyes at your ex's freaky girlfriend and go on about your life.

 

In my state, income is imputed to the non-earning parent. My only income is alimony, but when they calculate child support, they assume that I'm earning what I would earn working a full-time job at a fairly low salary, but above minimum wage since I have a degree.

 

If I were you, I'd use the state child support calculation and run the numbers under the assumption that you make $15,000 a year and your ex makes whatever he makes. If your ex wants to, he can go after you for that amount. Of course, any amount that you would owe him would be offset by the $5,000 arrearage that he still owes you.

 

Whoa. I just looked at your signature. You have 6 minor children and 2 live with you and 4 live with your ex-husband? That makes it a lot harder to calculate! Or are the two who live with you step-kids??

 

The state doesn't care how many step-kids you have or how much money your ex's girlfriend makes.

 

Until your ex files for a change in child support, you don't need to do anything. Except tell the kids that money matters are not their concern.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Liza Lee

[BMW]

Actually, ktgrok, that's exactly what happened this year.

 

Ex stopped working and didn't pay child support. He was in arrears and said he'd pay for the kids dentist bill and not ask for child support if I'd drop it.

 

I believed him. I'm incredibly stupid, I suppose.

 

Now he refuses to pay the dental bill and is asking for support.

 

I took a deep cleansing breath and asked myself, "So, how much can you pay your ex each month?" And, honestly, I have to get smart at some point.

Edited August 10, 2011 by BMW

[Carrie12345]

Bee,

For what it's worth, I do understand the anger involved in these things. I'm actually headed to mediation tomorrow, simply b/c I can't get ex to stick to a routine visitation plan without calling me names and threatening to not return our son.

But those emotions have to be removed from the technical aspects.

[Liza Lee]

Imp, my husbands wife is dead.

 

Have you adopted the children? If you can legally adopt them, then suddenly their needs DO count.

[Liza Lee]

Ex stopped working and didn't pay child support. He was $5,000 in arrears and said he'd pay for the kids dentist bill and not ask for child support if I'd drop it.

 

I believed him. I'm incredibly stupid, I suppose.

 

Now he refuses to pay the dental bill and is asking for support.

 

 

Not stupid. Just too trusting.

 

I'm sorry. This is a big mess.

[Jilly]

When you decided to allow all the children to live with their father did you have a new custody agreement drawn up? Or was it just an agreement between the two of you? If it was an informal agreement I think I would go to an attorney and talk to them about everything. In California you will most likely have to pay something, even if it is very little, but I wouldn't discuss that with anyone but my attorney.

[BMW]

Jilly, we filed an agreement with the courts... that we would share legal custody, that I would only pay support as able to (very loosely worded because they verbally said that they wouldn't ask for any), and that the kids would spend one weekend a month with me...

 

As it goes, I see two of my children each month and they are so sorry, but the older kids are too busy with summer school and activities... (true of one of the kids and the other two got into TONS of trouble when they visited last time, so I haven't pushed this)...

 

Anyway... I am very glad to have had this discussion because it has helped clear up in my mind where I want to go from here.

Edited August 10, 2011 by BMW

[bettyandbob]

Bee I don't think you should tell your ex that you are going to pay anything until you get legal advice from a professional in your state. I think everyone on this board is helpful and I think most of what you've been told is sound. However, what you may owe may be significantly less than what you propose. If you can't pay your attorney now, can you see someone at a nonprofit women's center, sometimes you can get referal's through women's shelters.

 

While I think most of what was said here was sound, I think you need to verify it. It sounds like there a few things that have gotten mucked up, as a result of verbal agreements with your ex. You should not give away what you do not have to.

:grouphug:

[BMW]

Thanks, Betty. I just figured that out now.

 

I put in making $8/hr. working a 40 hour week and that would put me at paying $530 monthly child support when I only make $300. I really doubt it would work out that way in court. Seriously. I just don't see that happening.

Edited August 10, 2011 by BMW

[Jilly]

Ex will be told that I have taken my wages working full time (even though I work up to 25 hours weekly) and plugged them into the child support calculator. Since they did not pay child support that was in arrears and told me that they would not ask for child support, I will deduct the amount I owe monthly from that amount due by them. I will let them know the date that I will begin paying out of pocket and how much they will receive for the support of the children. I will also let them know that the children are to be left out of the loop and that my attorney has recorded down their involvement in this matter, since it is against court order. I will, hopefully lastly, state that the matter is not to be brought up again and that they can expect payment on that future date. If they believe I am in error, than I will gladly present my information to the judge, via my attorney.

 

This sounds like a good plan. :)

 

Good luck with it all. I know how hard situations like this can be. I seem to have disagreements with my ex every other week, and it can be quite an emotional nightmare sometimes. :grouphug:

[BMW]

Heigh ho,

 

I am in a very solid relationship with my dh. His sons lost their mom to cancer right when I was divorcing. My dh provided for my children month after month for 3 years. He bought their shoes. He bought their clothes. He paid for gas in my car. Then we married. He continued to pay for whatever any of us needed. We had no idea when or if ex would ever participate in the kid's lives.

 

I got a job a year ago, part time, in order to get a newer vehicle... one that was needed because two children had gone to live with their father and I needed reliable transportation to facilitate visitation. Then ex stopped paying child supprt and my husband picked up the bill.

 

I work part time and no, I don't leave my stepsons home alone because they have intermittent outbursts (at 12 and turning 15) that stem from the trauma of watching their mother suffer for 6 years with cancer... No, the court doesn't care about that, I understand. Yes, this was my choice. And by golly I sure am glad I made this choice because my husband supported us through thick and thin in very difficult circumstances and he is my rock. He is my life partner and one of my best friends.

 

I do want to pay for the vehicle as I can. I pay for my own cell phone plan. I pay for the dentist for my kids (not his boys...) and I pay for other bills as I can. The reason I kept my bills separate from his was that in case I were ever confronted with child support money being used to pay for anything that pertained to my husbands boys... well, I could show that, no, my money pays for my own obligations. (Please don't misread that and think I've lowered my children into the status of obligations, I am absolutely crazy about my kids... check out my blog to see who I am....) (not seeking blog traffic, but should you look there, you would see who we all are and I doubt you would question what "kind of marriage" I am in....)

 

But, as I already said, I am a bit emotional in all of this.

 

That is gradually fading, though, and I am happily coming up with how to handle this situation... Well, as happily as one can... :)

Edited August 10, 2011 by BMW

[Annie G]

I think you need to sit down with the kids and see what they have to say about it. It may be that one of them blurted something out in anger- one may have wanted to buy something and dad said there wasn't money for that but that if you sent child support he'd gladly let them buy whatever they wanted. And the kid might have played the parrot and said, "Why doesn't she pay?"

 

Or it may be that the dad is chafing under the stress of raising all the kids. Or the stepmom is not happy chipping in for the kids. Who knows? But the end result is that you might be worrying over nothing.

 

You mentioned you sometimes work 25 hours a week- but you only make $300 a month?

 

If he wants to revisit the child support issue, that probably opens the door for you to revisit whether it's a good idea for the kids to continue living with him.

 

Good luck with mediation- you sound stressed!

[8circles]

This may be a stupid question as I've never gone through this sort of thing & admittedly have no idea. But why are you even doing any of this? Has anyone officially asked you for any support? I just think if you already had something arranged in any formal manner than this is just needlessly complicating things.

 

Like I said, I am ignorant in these matters so I could be way off but it just doesn't sound right to me.

 

I hope this doesn't sound harsh, I just can't think of better words right now but I will say that I think it wasn't your place to "forgive" the $5000 in support he owed you. I feel that money belongs to your kids & not you. Especially if he's going back on what he said about paying for dental work, you need to ask for the $5000 he owes.

 

I'm sorry you're dealing with this stuff. :grouphug:

[ezrabean2005]

I just wanted to reinforce that you do NOT want to bring this up with your ex-husband / his wife at all. You need to first talk to your lawyer and then your ex would have the burden to make the first move here. You don't need to do anything (except be informed) until HE draws up the papers, etc.

 

If there is no apple cart to upset, please don't. Save yourself some time and a headache if you can. I would also blow off anything said by the wife -- she may just be trying to push buttons. Again, it means nothing if there are not court papers that say HE wants to do this.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Super big hugs for you -- you have been through a lot.

[fhjmom]

I am sorry you are in this situation and I understand it is stressful and hurts but honestly, I am of the opinion that it is the responsibility of the parent to provide for the care of his/her children. I don't know if this perspective will help or not, but it doesn't matter that someone else (your ex) is already taking care of the kids - the kids need to know that mom is also contributing to their daily care. If you were in their lives daily, you would be able to contribute more non-financially to their care, but since you aren't they way our society defines "contributing care" means financially. Also, I am always baffled by the argument that child support should not be required if a parent doesn't make much money. The kids have to be provided for and it is up to both parents to make that happen, not just one or only the one that makes more money. When DH's ex was not working and in jail, her child support obligation did not stop (I don't know if she could have gotten it stopped, but she didn't). We did not ask for child support because we didn't think she would ever pay and the money didn't matter to us (and she didn't for over 6 years, and even when she does not, it is miniscule, usually less than $100). The judge ordered ex to pay $150 a month anyway. It wasn't because we needed the money (even though we are far from secure financially), it was a token amount to show she as the mother was contributing to the care of her child. I don't know if it helps to think of any money you may be ordered to pay in child support as going to your kids instead of your ex and his significant other, but I would really try to separate that in your mind if you can.

 

I also agree that you should not do anything until you speak with an attorney and the ex does ask for support. I would also certainly try to get and arrears he owes you plus dental expenses owed (if that was part of your original order) to be credited towards any amount you are ordered to pay.

 

:grouphug:

[Joanne]

You probably remember that I "share" some of your story.

 

My oldest moves in with his Dad Friday. :glare: I forgave nearly $3000 in arrears child support.

 

However, your perspective on child support is "off" to me. (sorry, I couldn't find another word for it!).

 

In my first marriage, My xh's xw sent her teen son to live with us and flat out "refused" to pay child support.

 

PS Thanks. I am a bit emotional right now. I know that none of you are picking on me. I really did ask for opinions. Now I guess I need a hug. And my attorney... since I just walked away from $5,000 that ex owed.

 

 

 

In our marriage, I was a stay at home mom, homeschooling and dh preferred that as much as I did. He didn't want me to work.

 

This is as much as I have ever made in income, outside of college years prior to marriage. I have no degree. I have very little job experience.

 

I do believe in support my kids. When they come for a visit, I spend money on them. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around the notion that I should be supporting their needs when they have none! Really? Go after a stay at home mom's $300 income? They're really low, imo, to consider that....

 

Pamela, I get that... but really? When dad's income and their current lifestyle is so much higher than mine???

 

The agreed to (or not) history of your marriage to the father doesn't "matter" after the end of the marriage, and especially so after a remarriage.

 

The income of the other family doesn't matter with regard to your need to support your kids. Child support is designed to assist for the primary living needs (shelter, utilities, clothes, food) of the primary residence.

 

The fact that you've made a choice to mother 2 high need step sons doesn't change the legal reality and responsibility - just like it would not change if your xh had to pay child support to you.

 

Now, in your case, you don't make enough to register on the scale to pay. But if you were male, and not working, and the xwife had custody, most of us here (and, indeed, most of us in this country) would be saying that you should get a job.

[Audrey]

Pamela, I get that... but really? When dad's income and their current lifestyle is so much higher than mine???

 

 

 

 

You are looking at this emotionally. The law is not based on emotions. In the legal sense, the bolded above is completely irrelevant. A parent is supposed to provide support for his/her children. Depending on your jurisdiction, that amount will vary, but regardless of either parent's income, each must provide support.

 

Just because he makes more, does not negate your responsibility to contribute support. It's not a matter of personal opinion. It's a simple matter of the statement of the law, which recognizes no exceptions based on gender, class, race or socio-economic status.

[BMW]

However, in our case, if you bring up the California Child Support Calculator and plug in our incomes and that I have the kids one weekend per month... even if my income were to double right now, it would still show that I do not owe child support. I'm not making that up. I just wonder in this economy would a judge hear that I am making $300 at a local retail store and potentially doubling that and then say to get a third job? I doubt it. As I said, even if my income doubles, I still don't come up as owing child support. Can not my children feel supported if when I spend time with them, I get them things they like or want? Can they not feel loved no matter how much money I make? Of course they can.... I just wonder what makes it seem that I am negating responsibility here...