Analytical Grammar taking up too much time?

[Rosie Q]

Has anyone else had this problem? Any ideas for how to deal with it? DS does not enjoy grammar. We have been doing Easy Grammar for the past five years but have been somewhat less than extremely consistent in our grammar work. I liked the idea of really knocking out grammar with a good foundational course in 9th grade (this year) and then going on to concentrate on composition and literature in the remainder of his high school years.

 

However, AG has been taking up about an hour a day, which does not leave us time for anything else in English. We are registered as homeschoolers with a church-related school that does not allow us to list English and Literature separately, so all lit work must come under the credit given for English. Problem is, we're not getting through much literature - and hardly any composition - because so much time is taken up with the AG program! Part of the problem is that DS has dysgraphia, so the handwritten work in AG takes him longer than it would another student. He also just does not like the program so far and groans every time I pull out the books.

 

We're on week two of the 9th grade, and I need to make some adjustments. I like the thorough approach to grammar in AG, but I don't want it to take up all of the time we have for English this year. I'd appreciate some suggestions for covering the grammar we need while still having time for some lit and comp work.

[dani3boys]

Are you doing one whole lesson each day? I used AG with my 6th graders this year, so I slowed it down for them. I started season 1 in January and we finished it in May. We didn't do any of the skills support lessons just the regular lessons and the tests. I would have them parse and diagram five sentences each day, so it took them almost two weeks to complete each unit. They learned so much this year. I have been very pleased with AG.

[Rosie Q]

My plan was to do a unit per week, which means one exercise per day. This should have the entire book finished in one year. I'm hoping to get finished with grammar this year, so that DS can concentrate on lit and comp in the rest of his high school years. I think it is a great program in which to take a slower approach, but maybe it's just not amenable to what I'm trying to do - get a good foundation in grammar in one year.

Edited August 9, 2011 by fiddledd
grammar!

[Sunshine State Sue]

We used AG in 6th-7th-8th grade. You may read my review here. I would say that each lesson took approximately 30min, maybe a little longer in Season 2. There are no LD here. Are you attempting to do the entire program in 1 year? Since this is week 2, are you on lesson 2?

 

I loved AG because it was clear and concise. I don't think there is any other program that covers grammar in such a concise manner, which I regularly reminded ds about if he started to complain. Is your son groaning because he has to think and work or because of the handwriting issue? How much can you do verbally? I know we dropped a bit of whatever was on day 4 - the paraphrasing part?

 

My only real suggestion is to contact Erin. If you bought AG new, I've heard that she now has her phone# inside the front cover. Otherwise, join the AG yahoo group, and post your question there. Erin and her mother, Robin, have umpteen years experience with teaching AG in brick and mortar schools. They are so helpful.

 

Let me encourage you. If you have not followed through consistently on grammar before, now is the time to focus on it consistently. AG is a GREAT program. Ds took the ACT at the end of 9th grade (we used the HS Reinforcement book that year) and scored 93% in the English usage/mechanics section.

 

HTH!

[Sunshine State Sue]

My plan was to do a unit per week, which means one exercise per day. This should have the entire book finished in one year. I'm hoping to get finished with grammar this year, so that DS can concentrate on lit and comp in the rest of his high school years. I think it is a great program in which to take a slower approach, but maybe it's just not amenable to what I'm trying to do - get a good foundation in grammar in one year.

If you want to finish grammar this year, and concentrate on lit and comp in the rest of high school, do you not think that an hour a day is reasonable? That is my understanding of what is reasonable for a HS credit. If you want to concentrate on lit and comp in 10th-12th, what else do you want to accomplish for 9th grade English besides grammar?

[Rosie Q]

I do expect to spend an hour a day on English, but I also expect that some part of this time will be spent on literature and composition. I'm not willing to wait to do any lit or comp until after 9th grade - I think that would be doing a disservice to my son. I expect to focus more fully on lit and comp after 9th grade, but not to just forget about them until later. I think I may have just picked the wrong program for grammar. I did buy AG new, which was a fairly substantial investment, though, and I was hoping for some ideas on how to integrate it into a program that includes grammar, lit and composition. It sounds like AG has worked well for your kids, but of course not every program works equally well for every student.

[dani3boys]

I do expect to spend an hour a day on English, but I also expect that some part of this time will be spent on literature and composition. I'm not willing to wait to do any lit or comp until after 9th grade - I think that would be doing a disservice to my son. I expect to focus more fully on lit and comp after 9th grade, but not to just forget about them until later. I think I may have just picked the wrong program for grammar. I did buy AG new, which was a fairly substantial investment, though, and I was hoping for some ideas on how to integrate it into a program that includes grammar, lit and composition. It sounds like AG has worked well for your kids, but of course not every program works equally well for every student.

 

Why not just spread it out over 1 1/2 years. You could easily get two seasons done this year just by going half pace, and then finish up season three the first half of 10th grade. If you have already spent the money on it, why not give it a little longer to see if it will work.

[1Togo]

We have always split the lessons; i.e. parsing, definitions on the first day and diagramming on the second day. We do the skill support pages on one day or two days depending on the content. As we move into the higher units, I give two days for the tests. I don't worry about the seasons. We just plug along as I have described. When we tried to do one lesson per day, dc groaned. Splitting the lessons has helped that. Our English is 1.5 hours or less, which includes composition and grammar. Literature is another subject.

[Lori D.]

Just for perspective: the rigorous local Christian school near us allots 90 minutes per day in the classroom for English (grammar, writing and literature instruction/discussion) -- and that does NOT include the time the student would be writing assignments done at home (approx. 2-4 hours/week) reading the literature at home (approx. 2-4 hours homework/week). A number of rigorous homeschoolers I know typically allot 2 hours per day for the 1 English credit in order to spend a lot of time on writing. I would guess we spend about 75-90 min/day for our 1 English credit -- which does include reading of the Literature. At *most*, we would spend about 20 min/day, 3 days/week on Grammar, and currently it is more like about 10 min/day 3-4 days/week. That seemed to be plenty of exposure -- Grammar does not have to be done every single day.

 

 

Since we homeschoolers haven't figured out a way to bend the space/time continuum (LOL!), it sounds like you have only a few options:

 

1. Spread out Analytical Grammar over 2-3 years.

(do short "bites" -- 10-20 min/day, just 2-3 days/week)

(note: one benefit of doing AG this way is it also gives the student a little grammar review all through high school and keeps them "fresh" for SAT and ACT testing in the senior year)

 

OR

 

2. Schedule more school per day to include writing and literature.

(plan your schedule to include 1 hour/day for Grammar + 30-60 min/day for Literature + 30 min/day for writing)

Realistically, you'll have to "speed it up" or put in overtime to do it:

("homework": do the reading in the evenings and on weekends)

(try using books-on-tape while driving)

("double dip" the writing -- make sure *every* writing assignment also can count towards another subject simultaneously (i.e. research paper = History; cause & effect = Science lab report; essay = Literature; etc.)

(schedule more time per day for school)

( go to a 6-days-a-week schedule, or to a year-round schedule to keep schoolday length the same, but to have more time for the school work)

(drop an afternoon or evening extracurricular or commitment each week to have time for an afternoon or evening school session)

 

OR

 

3. Adapt AG -- reduce the time it takes to do the Grammar.

(have DS just mark sentences, not write them out)

(don't do every single problem -- just 2-4 select sentences from each lesson; if the concept is not understood, then go back and do more sentences)

(don't write the sentences -- have son do them orally; if he's missing or guessing or sloppy about it, then have him start writing sentences until he's "up to speed" again)

(you write out sentences (all, or just some, as needed) on the whiteboard and have him just mark the sentences)

 

 

 

Just a thought: perhaps a different program for overall grammar review might be a better fit for your DS?? The format of AG sounds like it is perhaps a bit of a writing stumbling block to a dysgraphic student and distracting him from really focusing on and learning *grammar* if he's having to struggle and take so much time with writing out answers. Take a moment to consider what your goals are for AG: grammar instruction and understanding -- OR, is it also to practice writing and so you DO want DS spending that much time on copywork from the AG? That may help you better decide what to use, and how to use it...

 

I DO think Analytical Grammar is a great program -- but it was NOT a good fit for either of our DSs. I was going to have our older DS (no learning disabilities) do Analytical Grammar in 9th grade as a final grammar wrap-up, but after 4 weeks, we had to drop it -- way to dry and "workbook-y" and too much writing. It was "busy-work" rather than a solid grammar review for him -- just not a good fit for his learning style.

 

Our younger DS has some learning disabilities (mild dyslexia, and some disabilities with writing and spelling), and when it comes to subjects such as grammar, I do NOT have him write out sentences; because he has limited writing ability, I strongly felt it was a waste to make him expend what little "battery energy" he had for writing -- on a workbook -- when that limited energy and ability needed to be going towards the actual subject of writing.

 

Instead, I wrote about 4 sentences on the white board and had him mark them. I had him do other sentences orally. The point was to learn grammar, which he did -- not to make him struggle with grammar by forcing him to write. When it came to grammar usage/mechanics, I had him use proofing symbols and then type and print out the corrected sentence or short paragraph. This is much closer to the realistic way in which grammar mechanics are used in real-life anyways -- going over one's own writing typed/printed "sloppy copy", revising and editing it, and then looking at the proofing marks and changes and typing them into the paper saved on the computer, and then printing out the final copy.

 

 

And finally, JMO: grammar is an important subject -- but it is just a tool (or stepping stone) to help in other subject areas: proper rhetoric (speaking or written); and learning a foreign language. I am not a proponent of "learning grammar for the sake of grammar", but rather, teach it (and practice it) in the context of real-life usage. Just another thought: perhaps ADAPT AG to better fit a real-world usage for your DS so it is giving him the review you want him to have, but in a realistic way rather than in a burdensome way?

 

 

BEST of luck in deciding what works best for your family with the English credit! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited August 10, 2011 by Lori D.

[wapiti]

Is your son groaning because he has to think and work or because of the handwriting issue? How much can you do verbally? I know we dropped a bit of whatever was on day 4 - the paraphrasing part?

 

:iagree: I'd try to get to the root of what is taking so long, whether it's the content or the handwriting, since some of the handwriting can be worked around. We are planning to start in a few days, and looking at the lessons, I do not foresee it taking a whole hour (though I don't plan to do the day 4 activity either).

[Candid]

:iagree: I'd try to get to the root of what is taking so long, whether it's the content or the handwriting, since some of the handwriting can be worked around. We are planning to start in a few days, and looking at the lessons, I do not foresee it taking a whole hour (though I don't plan to do the day 4 activity either).

 

I agree with this idea. We used to do Easy Grammar and I'm surprised to hear that it would take longer to do AG.

 

Is it possible they are struggling with drawing the diagrams in some way? We are somewhat handwriting/fine motor inept here so sometimes things like diagrams slow us down.

[ma23peas]

I adapt the program..I am using it with all three of my children (there are 3 years from youngest to oldest)....here is how we do it and it works well for us..

 

Day one: We all sit together and do lesson ONE TOGETHER! We have white boards where I draw the diagrams and each one takes a sentence and calls out the labels out loud. The second day they are to do lesson two, I grade them...if they make 90 or higher, they only have to do one more lesson...which I also grade...then they do the final exam on Thursday. So, we do not do all five lessons...just 3-4..if they score really well (95+) I let them go straight to the exam....if they've got it, they've got it. I think doing the first lesson together and talking out the mistakes helps immensely.

 

HTH

[Ellie]

I do expect to spend an hour a day on English, but I also expect that some part of this time will be spent on literature and composition. I'm not willing to wait to do any lit or comp until after 9th grade - I think that would be doing a disservice to my son. I expect to focus more fully on lit and comp after 9th grade, but not to just forget about them until later. I think I may have just picked the wrong program for grammar. I did buy AG new, which was a fairly substantial investment, though, and I was hoping for some ideas on how to integrate it into a program that includes grammar, lit and composition. It sounds like AG has worked well for your kids, but of course not every program works equally well for every student.

It is most common in high school for the course to be called "English" and not separated into components of grammar, composition, and literature, so your umbrella school has the right of it.

 

However, are you *sure* you need to cover grammar to the extent that AG does? Couldn't you have your dc do Easy Grammar Plus in one fell swoop--three pages a day--instead? Or do the grade-level Ultimate as a review?

 

Also, I wouldn't try to do grammar, composition, and literature every day. I'd alternate them: complete a unit of grammar, followed by a couple of weeks of of writing assignments, followed by a few weeks of literature.

[Rosie Q]

Thank you for all of the great suggestions on adapting AG for my DS and for the additional creative ideas for grammar. I really appreciate all of your comments! Lori, thanks for crystallizing the issues for me so well. I think I will adapt AG to be somewhat less intensive and keep going with this program for now (and reassess in a month or two). My plans to have DS conquer grammar in grade 9 while also doing a good amount of lit and comp may be a bit too ambitious, and I do see the value of some continued review of grammar in future high school years for testing (SAT/ACT) purposes, as well.

[Retired]

My freshman's English/literature credit takes about 3 hours daily.

 

He does Analytical Grammar (Unit 2) a sheet daily

IEW Student Intensive (he is on week 5)

Sonlight 100 literature reading/analysis. I plan on adding more intense analysis after he finishes up the (Unit 2) which is 7 weeks.

We will break for about 10 weeks only doing a review sheet while he considerate on analysis

 

Then once he get better and more organized with his year we will pick up Analytical grammar again (the rest of the curriculum is a review of punctuation and stuff)

 

My sons have been taught grammar so analytical grammar for us is a one last review for life;)

 

I used the analytical reviews that they publish to keep their skills up till graduation.

[ekarl2]

Has anyone else had this problem? Any ideas for how to deal with it? DS does not enjoy grammar. We have been doing Easy Grammar for the past five years but have been somewhat less than extremely consistent in our grammar work. I liked the idea of really knocking out grammar with a good foundational course in 9th grade (this year) and then going on to concentrate on composition and literature in the remainder of his high school years.

 

However, AG has been taking up about an hour a day, which does not leave us time for anything else in English. We are registered as homeschoolers with a church-related school that does not allow us to list English and Literature separately, so all lit work must come under the credit given for English. Problem is, we're not getting through much literature - and hardly any composition - because so much time is taken up with the AG program! Part of the problem is that DS has dysgraphia, so the handwritten work in AG takes him longer than it would another student. He also just does not like the program so far and groans every time I pull out the books.

 

We're on week two of the 9th grade, and I need to make some adjustments. I like the thorough approach to grammar in AG, but I don't want it to take up all of the time we have for English this year. I'd appreciate some suggestions for covering the grammar we need while still having time for some lit and comp work.

 

 

There is a page at the front of the teacher book called suggestions for short cuts. Try using those techniques so that he's only doing the amount of work necessary to learn what he needs to learn. It may be that he "gets" the concept by only doing every other sentence and skipping the skills support. That's FINE. You need to be interested in mastery, not completion for the sake of it.

 

I'd be happy to talk with you and discuss some other ways of opening up some time for you. As Sue said, my phone number is on the back of your book!

 

Blessings,

 

Erin from AG

[Rosie Q]

Thank you for the suggestions, Erin! I will try just having him do every other sentence, as you and the shortcuts page suggest. We may also try doing some of the exercises verbally, since I do think the writing is slowing him down. Hopefully, this will allow him to get the benefits of the AG program while also having time for literature and composition. I really appreciate your help.

[ekarl2]

Thank you for the suggestions, Erin! I will try just having him do every other sentence, as you and the shortcuts page suggest. We may also try doing some of the exercises verbally, since I do think the writing is slowing him down. Hopefully, this will allow him to get the benefits of the AG program while also having time for literature and composition. I really appreciate your help.

 

 

It's my pleasure! The last thing I want is frustration on your or his part! Feel free to call or e-mail if you have further questions.

 

Blessings,