Dear Baby Sleep Experts/Non-Experts/Anybody With an Opinion

[Classical Country Mama]

Heeeeeeeeeelp.

 

Ds (15 mos) sleeps great when he sleeps. He takes one 90-minute nap during the day, and he sleeps about 10 straight hours at night (we recently stopped the night feedings). Going to bed is a happy time, and once he's down, he stays down.

 

However, this is not enough sleep. And worse than that, he's taken to getting up between 5:30 and 6:15 in the morning. So it's some kind of self-fulfilling horrible cycle. Because he gets up so early, even holding out as long as possible, for survival's sake I HAVE to put him down for his nap by 10:30. He gets up around 12. Starts yawning at 3, but the handful of times I've tried reintroducing the afternoon nap, he just goofs off.

 

So by 6:00 he's a wreck, and I have no choice but to start the bedtime routine, which means he's down by 7. Which means he's up at 5:30....

 

How, oh how, can we correct the sleep times/lengths and restore sanity in our home? (And by "home" I mean "my brain.")

 

Thank you-- :willy_nilly:

[SonshineLearner]

I'm guessing you're not a morning person :) My brother woke up at 6am... forever.... That is until he was big enough for school :) I would try to schooch it forward just a bit.... at a time.... and put darkening shades on his windows. :)

[kathkath]

I would make bedtime earlier too, gradually. It is counterintuitive but that can make them sleep longer.

[wapiti]

Yeah, my kids still get up around 6 or so.... :glare: though at least only two are still in cribs (and one of those gets himself out most of the time, or else dd10 who shares his room gets him out).

 

I don't have an answer, except that it's obvious that there's some overtiredness going on, with only a 90-min nap and 10-hours overnight - my goal would be a 2-hour nap and 10.5 to 11 hours overnight.

 

My thoughts: I would try to stretch him until noon for the nap - *NO earlier* (ok maybe 11:45 ;) but I'd work on getting him to hang in there until noon). Then bed, head on pillow, at 6:45 if changing the naptime doesn't do enough. And I'd expect to be up by 6. Does he have anything to amuse himself with in the crib when he wakes up, to give you a few more minutes? Is there an older sibling who can get him out in the morning?

 

Or, to try to go back to two naps, I'd put him in for a morning nap around 9:30 but only let him sleep for an hour or so.

 

That's all I got, LOL. The transition for dropping naps can be so difficult.

[spaceman]

Yep, bedtime earlier or naptime later. You may not be able to change the wake time, but more sleep can come with an earlier bedtime.

 

Also, try blackout curtains and make the room completely dark.

[extendedforecast]

Man, I wish this was my area of expertise. I am having trouble figuring out my little ones' sleep needs too. Every time I finally figure it out, they go and change. Thankfully neither of them are super early risers. The littlest does wake up a good one to two hours before everyone else though, but at least she's cheerful in the morning. Most of the other kids are grumpy in the morning. Sorry I have no advice. I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. Misery loves company, right?

[NanceXToo]

You might want to think about putting him in the carseat around 3 PM and going for a leisurely drive. Maybe he'll nap that way and try keeping him up an hour later at night, and see if that makes a difference?

[jenangelcat]

I would make bedtime earlier too, gradually. It is counterintuitive but that can make them sleep longer.

 

:iagree:

 

It works. As for napping, my kids all gave up all napping around 12-14 months. I was not happy about that.

[Classical Country Mama]

All right, people. In my finest redneck decorating style, I thumbtacked a dark blue towel in the baby's window where the darkening shades had a gap. And I had him down, in the crib, by 6:30pm.

 

As for tomorrow, it looks like I have two options.

 

1) Keep going with the early nap, recognizing that it means a crazy long gap until bedtime in which I am likely to personally remove significant clumps of my own hair.

 

2) Remove my clumps of hair in the morning instead while forcing the baby to wait until noon for his nap. It's going to be nails on the chalkboard, my friends. :ack2:

 

Either way, it appears I've got a day of wrenching out clumps of my own hair to look forward to. What I hate most--other than his not sleeping enough--is I had just swapped my own routine to working out at 5:30, and then Bible study (on the phone with a friend) at 6:30. The baby's early wake time totally destroys that idyllic plan. And I'm finding if I put off working out until the evenings, I often don't.

 

Would welcome any new ideas/comments. Thanks so much to those of you who took the time to comment earlier (and for commiserating!).

 

Still :willy_nilly: here in the meantime! Which reminds me of the macarena, which hey! is a great idea to help ds and I pass the time tomorrow morning at 5:30. Anybody else with early rising babies ready to join us?

[Mert]

This isn't what you were asking about but wanted to share a different sort of idea. When ds was a toddler, he was an EARLY riser. He was regularly up for the day at 4:45. We just set up our playroom so that all the doorways could be gated and so that it was super duper child safe, and I kept a pillow and blanket in there. I regularly slept for another hour or 2 after he woke during that "season" by moving us both in there and closing off the gates. You obviously don't want any advice from me as I never figured out that sleeping thing. :lol: Just thought something like this might help until you find a good schedule.

[JenniferB]

For me a "blankie time" or "quiet time" in the room where I'm preparing dinner usually induces a short nap before dinner, which makes evenings and a later bedtime possible. He usually doesn't want to do it (he's almost 4 yrs. old), but I just tell him that it's "blue blankie time" and he's not allowed to get off the couch. Then, I just leave him alone, and he usually falls asleep. If he doesn't, then oh-well, I tried. If he falls asleep I let him sleep until dinner is ready, then, I wake him up for dinner. He's usually good until 8:00 or 8:30ish. He'll sleep until 7:00 or 7:30 ish. If he wakes up before that, which does happen sometimes, he gets to snuggle up in my bed next to me. He sometimes falls back asleep, as do I. If he's too wiggly, I say, "if you don't sit still I'm going to put you in your own bed." Then, I do it if necessary, and tell him not to get off his bed until I come and get him. All these ideas only work if I enforce them, which is sometimes difficult, but not too bad. With a little bit of diligence it works, and I get enough sleep, as does the little guy. :grouphug:

[NotSoObvious]

I'd recommend the book "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child." There are some great recommendations in there and he talks a lot about getting enough sleep, resetting sleep schedules, etc. Wonderful book.

[OrdinaryTime]

He sounds just like my 20 month old for the last six months. Ugh. She wants to wake at 5-5:30, nap from 10-11:30, then torment me from 5-7, until we all finally collapse at bedtime in a crying heap.

 

It took me a couple of months, and she would still go back to her old ways if I wasn't consistent, but I just made a strict no-out-of-your-crib-before-6am rule. Thankfully, she is happy in the morning and would just talk, sing, and laugh for about an hour most morning. There was some crying, but no serious wailing. After a few weeks, she starting sleeping until 5:30 am, then a few weeks later 6:00 am, until finally she usually makes it to 6:30 am.

 

At the same time, I also refused to put her down before 11:30 am for her nap and slowly moved that back until noon. We would try to be outside or visit someone/something mid-morning to divert her attention from her overwhelming need to sleep. It was ugly for a few weeks, but we finally made it. Now she goes to bed by 7:00 pm, gets up at 6:30 am, and naps from 12:00-2:00 pm. She was stubborn about it, and if I didn't have other kids to take into account, I might just have let her have the schedule of her choice!

[toawh]

When my first son was born bed time was at 3:00 am. This schedule drove us crazy since my we usually had to be up by 6:30. So I started doing the bedtime routine 5 minutes earlier each night, and it really worked. You could try it in reverse and a bit more since he's older. Stall his bedtime by 15min. each week. My second son was a early bird. He woke up at 5 in the morning. We'd leave toys in his crib and he'd play with them happily until we'd get him up.

[Classical Country Mama]

I'd recommend the book "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child." There are some great recommendations in there and he talks a lot about getting enough sleep, resetting sleep schedules, etc. Wonderful book.

 

I love this book. Its principles helped us establish our formerly perfect sleep schedule. But he has pretty much ZIP on this age; nothing for transitioning to one nap etc. Maybe he was too sleep-deprived himself during this period to recall what to do? :blink:

[northcoast]

I also 2nd the advice of reading the book "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" by Marc Weissbluth, MD. It was a life saver for our family. If I remember correctly, you won't have to sit and read the whole thing at once to start some of his suggestions. But do read the whole book.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I know some people hate that I say this, but....

 

If he were in daycare, he'd have ONE nap. There just wouldn't be opportunity to run down at 10am. He'd do the next project, the next outside time, the next song, etc. And in a couple days (of fussiness, I'm sure), he'd settle in to not going down for nap until noon.

 

Our daycare (the one I used to work at and now my two babies go to four days per week) has this schedule for the toddlers:

 

8am breakfast

I'm not positive about morning snack (he didn't go today so I can't check).

11:30 lunch

As kids finish, they are put down (mats).

Most kids will be asleep by 12:15 (when I worked that room, the goal was clean up and kids alseep by that time so we had 15 minutes to conference about the morning). All will be asleep before 12:30 which is the official start of naptime.

Wake up is 2:30.

If kids woke before then, they are encouraged to be quiet and fairly still. Their diapers are changed though and some kids need to play quietly at the table rather than on their mats. Some also need a cracker or two before nap. Most kids have to be helped awake.

[Robyn]

I love this book. Its principles helped us establish our formerly perfect sleep schedule. But he has pretty much ZIP on this age; nothing for transitioning to one nap etc. Maybe he was too sleep-deprived himself during this period to recall what to do? :blink:

 

Transitioning to one nap is tough. I will second the suggestions for an earlier bedtime.

 

I would also try to hold off on the nap for just a bit. You will have a few tough days, but he will likely adjust to the new schedule. My youngest is turning 18 months. He goes to bed by 7-sometimes around 6:30 even, and wakes between 6-6:30. He goes down for his nap right after lunch, around 11:30-12-ish.

 

I find that every time you get them on a decent schedule, they are ready to drop a nap or something, it is frustrating. I have my fingers crossed that my ds will stick with his current schedule for a long time! I am not a morning person by any stretch of the imagination, but he is happy to curl up on the couch for a bit with a cup of milk when he first gets up, long enough for me to check my email and drink a cup of coffee.

[Classical Country Mama]

I find that every time you get them on a decent schedule, they are ready to drop a nap or something, it is frustrating.

 

That is so true!!!

 

 

he is happy to curl up on the couch for a bit with a cup of milk when he first gets up, long enough for me to check my email and drink a cup of coffee.

 

I think it's this part I have the toughest time with. I am not a morning person--if it were up to me, I'd go to bed around 2am and get up 8ish. But I recently started getting up at 5:30 just so I could get my personal things done before everybody else got up. If I'm up with the baby at this hour, it means I'm neither sleeping nor getting anything productive done.

 

I am tempted by Mert's idea to try going back to sleep myself while he plays around, but then how on earth to get my working out etc done? Does this mean I have to start getting up at 4:15!? :scared: And then when do I go to bed?

 

What's totally embarrassing is I've already gone through this with one kid--at least, I must have, since I remember giving birth to her and she's almost 7 now. What did I do the first time? And why don't I remember?

[Robyn]

 

What's totally embarrassing is I've already gone through this with one kid--at least, I must have, since I remember giving birth to her and she's almost 7 now. What did I do the first time? And why don't I remember?

 

My three have been completely different with their sleep habits. You'd think I'd have it all figured out by the time we have another one, but I doubt it! ;)

[Colleen in NS]

I'd try holding the baby off til noontime, then let him sleep 2-3 hours so that he is nice and refreshed for the rest of his day. Then see if you can keep him awake til around 8 p.m. so he will sleep later the next morning. If he sleeps for three hours in the afternoon, you may be able to do this.

[Classical Country Mama]

OK, he was up at 6:15 this morning which, after the 5:30am of the past couple of days feels like sleeping in, so that's good.

 

I'll start pushing his nap today, poor little guy. Just when HE was getting used to a routine... :D

 

Colleen, I'd love nothing better than for him to take a longer nap. He wakes up like a clock after 90 minutes. How do I get him to extend that to 2-3 hours?

 

(And now, a giant coffee, I think!)

[Pamela H in Texas]

Once you get him to stay up until a reasonable nap time, he'll easily do 2+ hours....probably :)

[melissad2]

:bigear:

 

I have the same problem except DS is almost 2 and wakes during the night to get in the bed with me...no advice just :grouphug:

[Colleen in NS]

OK, he was up at 6:15 this morning which, after the 5:30am of the past couple of days feels like sleeping in, so that's good.

 

I'll start pushing his nap today, poor little guy. Just when HE was getting used to a routine... :D

 

Colleen, I'd love nothing better than for him to take a longer nap. He wakes up like a clock after 90 minutes. How do I get him to extend that to 2-3 hours?

 

(And now, a giant coffee, I think!)

 

OK, so, he slept for almost 12 hours last night?? That's great!! What time do YOU want him to get up in the mornings? Work backwards from there for a bedtime. Maybe you could put him to bed at 8 p.m. tonight (I know, hair clumps missing), and get him up at 7-8 a.m. ish tomorrow. Then work hard at keeping him awake til 1 p.m., and see how long he sleeps in the afternoon. If he's waking after 90 minutes, can you try to just leave him be in his crib? See if he falls back to sleep (thumbtack that dark blue towel up for his naptime, too) within the next 30 minutes or so? I'm thinking that a 2-3 hour afternoon nap will help him stay awake til 8 p.m.. Sometimes kids wake early from naps, but aren't really refreshed yet - see if leaving him there will allow him to relax into another sleep phase.

 

Another idea is maybe he still needs two naps a day - 90 minutes each, morning and afternoon. Transition to one afternoon nap after his nighttime sleep is regularly on the schedule that you want?

 

Of course, this all sounds so ideal, but in reality it could take a few days (and you going bald, lol) for him to readjust. But I think it would be worth it. I would have been lost if I couldn't have had my babies on a sleep/wake routine that benefitted our whole family. Heck, I'm just a big fan of solid and unbroken sleep for everyone.

 

Good luck.

[Ewe Mama]

First of all, :grouphug:

 

Secondly, perhaps you could try a white noise cd in his room at naptime. This really helped my little ones to sleep longer, because they were lulled by the sound of a fan humming, rainstorm, or ocean waves in the background.

 

Does he like to take baths? Maybe at about the time he starts to crank up for the bedtime brawl, you could pop him into the tub to play and splash for a while. That might perk him up a bit until he can go down for a "normal" bedtime.

 

I hope you can get him on a good routine...so you can both be happier. :001_smile:

[Classical Country Mama]

Thought I'd post an update in case it helps other sleep-deprived mommies!

 

After a week or two of my eager son's rising at 5 or 6am despite my playing around with his daily nap & bedtime schedule, I thought I'd try feeding him when he got up and putting him back down again.

 

This has worked most brilliantly. In fact as I write this (8:45am), he's still sleeping today. So apparently he's just hungry at that hour. Every morning after I put him back down, he sleeps at least two more hours, getting up at a very civilized time of 7 or 8.

 

Which means I can nap him at the infinitely more reasonable time of 12.

 

Things have VASTLY improved. Thank you sooo much to everyone for your encouragement and advice. I'll be back in a couple weeks when it all changes again. :D

[Robyn]

That's great to hear! :D

[Susan in TN]

:thumbup: