Do you share microscopes in a science co-op?

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Because I don't want to. :001_huh:

 

I know that makes me a horrible person, but I don't want to share it. It took major financial sacrifice for us to be able to buy a super-good microscope, ds will need it for all 4 years of high school, and we have three other children who will also need it.

 

If it gets broken at science co-op I will not be able to replace it. We have absolutely no money in the bank right now and no more money for school supplies this year.

 

Nobody is paying anything to join this co-op but people wanting to join are asking to share dissection kits, slides, and microscopes. On the discussion list, people are talking about how microscopes are always shared in science co-ops and they know I have a good one that others can use.

 

Is this normal? Am I supposed to let strangers use my son's microscope?

 

I've never done a high school science co-op. I assumed that each student would have his or her own supplies, especially since nobody is paying anything.

 

Would it be rude to have people sign a paper pledging to promptly replace a microscope if their kid breaks it?

[Jennifer3141]

I have a really good microscope and I am saving for a really good telescope. I share our microscope with my friends but no, I would not share it with a co-op class. (Or our slides, either.)

 

I don't think you're weird at all.

 

Anyway you can find a cheap one and take that instead? Grab a $10 off Amazon and tell people your forgot your good one.

[lmrich]

The course is free? The instructors are just hoping that kids bring in the right materials? This doesn't sound like a good plan.

 

I have purchased microscopes from Craig's List and now can bring 3 with me when I teach science. I charge a materials fee and tuition.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

At first it was just going to be a friend and me, I had no problem with sharing the microscope with friend's daughter. I even offered to share. (They have a microscope, but I don't think it is very good.) I guess friend took that to mean I would share it with everyone, now that the group has grown to several families.

 

One of the people who has done a Biology co-op before just said that she has had 3 to 5 students sharing a microscope, just taking turns.

 

I'm going to look like a jerk if I say, "I'm sorry, but we won't be sharing Nate's microscope," if everyone else is used to sharing.

[momofkhm]

I shared our microscope last time and will again this year. Last itme through biology, there were 16 kids but 4 microscopes. Ours was always used by dd's group of 4. This time I think there are only 5 kids. I'll bring our microscope again.

 

It sounds like your co-op. A group of moms who don't want to teach the whole course so we're meeting together for labs only. No fees, we will each teach the same number of labs and supply equipment as well.

 

To me, they are high school students. It's not like your $200 (more?) microscope is being used by 7 year olds. They may not be as careful as you would be. But they are somewhat responsible.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

This is what I want to say, but I'm running it past the Hive first. How would this strike you if you saw it come across the email list:

 

"I had initially offered to share our microscope with (friend's) daughter if their microscope turned out to be inadequate for the course, but I'm not willing to generally share it in a co-op class.

 

We had to really sacrifice financially to obtain it, my son needs it for upcoming classes, and we have three more children who will need it...and zero chance of being able to replace it this year if something happens to it.

 

It makes sense to me for all the children to bring their own microscopy and dissection kits, slides, and books unless we are going to charge a materials fee. Also, I suggest that those who are planning to share microscopes should sign an agreement to replace or repair broken equipment if an accident occurs."

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

I forgot to specify that this is a labs-only co-op, meeting once every two weeks to do all the labs in a module (Apologia Biology).

[AuntieM]

If you are sketching from microscope study, it will take a looking time for everyone to finish if there's only one good scope.

 

How can you share a dissection kit? Everyone needs a specimen and a pan, right? So, two at the most for sharing (lab partner concept). If you need to keep cost down, do one dissection on an overhead projector. But that defeats the purpose of the class, no?

 

In our experience, the fees associated with lab classes are high enough to cover the cost of all supplies, consumable and non. If you want to offer coops year after year, maybe you could make an investment in lab equipment for a group and recoup your cost through annual fees. But if you just want to do it for your own kids, no. You don't have to say that you don't want to share. Just use the excuse that time constraints require a maximum of 2/3 students per microscope.

 

And may I just say, there is no soft spot in my heart for coop freeloaders.

[QueenCat]

This is what I want to say, but I'm running it past the Hive first. How would this strike you if you saw it come across the email list:

 

"I had initially offered to share our microscope with (friend's) daughter if their microscope turned out to be inadequate for the course, but I'm not willing to generally share it in a co-op class.

 

We had to really sacrifice financially to obtain it, my son needs it for upcoming classes, and we have three more children who will need it...and zero chance of being able to replace it this year if something happens to it.

 

It makes sense to me for all the children to bring their own microscopy and dissection kits, slides, and books unless we are going to charge a materials fee. Also, I suggest that those who are planning to share microscopes should sign an agreement to replace or repair broken equipment if an accident occurs."

 

I would add that replacement would be for a microscope of equal quality, not just any old microscope.

[Alenee]

I don't think there's anything wrong with your message. We use a co-op for science however, the instructor spent the summer locating and buying used microscopes for the co-op. They are the property of the co-op and the families paid a fee for all dissection and other lab supplies. Nothing comes free! In dd's biology class last year, they had partners so the two would share a microscope. This was very doable. I can't imagine only having one scope for more than 2-3 kids.

[Alenee]

 

And may I just say, there is no soft spot in my heart for coop freeloaders.

 

:iagree: Stick to your guns!

[KungFuPanda]

 

And may I just say, there is no soft spot in my heart for coop freeloaders.

 

:iagree: I love this :lol:

[Wheres Toto]

In your situation, I would expect everyone to provide their own equipment and supplies. Otherwise, I would expect to pay a fee for the organizer to supply equipment.

 

If I had a really expensive piece of equipment, I would not feel comfortable having it shared through a class. I would not go to a class like that expecting to be able to use everyone else's stuff unless that is how the class was presented. It sounds like yours was set up more to have fun doing the labs together, not as a way to save money by not having to buy equipment?

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

In your situation, I would expect everyone to provide their own equipment and supplies. Otherwise, I would expect to pay a fee for the organizer to supply equipment.

 

If I had a really expensive piece of equipment, I would not feel comfortable having it shared through a class. I would not go to a class like that expecting to be able to use everyone else's stuff unless that is how the class was presented. It sounds like yours was set up more to have fun doing the labs together, not as a way to save money by not having to buy equipment?

 

That's what I thought!

 

I just called DH to see what his opinion was, and he said to absolutely not share the microscope that he went without lunch to afford with perfect strangers. (He did agree that sharing just with friend's daughter would have been fine.)

 

After I hung up the phone, my son said, "Mama, do you realize you never asked me if I wanted to be in a co-op?" I said, "What? I asked if you would do experiments with (friend's daughter) since their family is having a hard time meeting other homeschoolers this year, and you said fine." He said, "I was totally fine with that, but I don't like classes full of homeschoolers."

 

Oh, no.

 

My only hope at this point is that my friend is reading this thread, because I don't want to tell her in person that we are selfish poor people who don't want to share our microscope and Nate doesn't want to be in a co-op anyway.

 

Just shoot me.

[Wheres Toto]

That's what I thought!

 

I just called DH to see what his opinion was, and he said to absolutely not share the microscope that he went without lunch to afford with perfect strangers. (He did agree that sharing just with friend's daughter would have been fine.)

 

After I hung up the phone, my son said, "Mama, do you realize you never asked me if I wanted to be in a co-op?" I said, "What? I asked if you would do experiments with (friend's daughter) since their family is having a hard time meeting other homeschoolers this year, and you said fine." He said, "I was totally fine with that, but I don't like classes full of homeschoolers."

 

Oh, no.

 

My only hope at this point is that my friend is reading this thread, because I don't want to tell her in person that we are selfish poor people who don't want to share our microscope and Nate doesn't want to be in a co-op anyway.

 

Just shoot me.

 

:grouphug: but I kind of have to laugh too. Don't you just love it when you're all worried about one aspect of something and your kids come along and completely change it up?

 

Who was responsible for the change from it being just you and your friend to being a whole co-op? How much actually interaction/planning has gone into this so far?

 

If it wasn't your idea (and I'm pretty sure from what you wrote, it wasn't) and it was still in the planning stages, I would just tell everyone that it was getting too complicated and it wasn't what you were looking for. There's a big difference between doing something with one other family and doing it with 2 to 5 families. It's harder to plan, to change plans when necessary, to have adequate equipment, to control the group (probably not a huge issue with high schoolers but still). If it's just you and one family, if someone gets sick it's just one phone call to cancel or reschedule, one microscope is adequate and a special facility is probably not needed.

[Pam Wilhelm]

I wouldn't share with the co-op....perhaps with a friend, but not a group.

 

I have an expensive (for me) Stereoscope and in a couple of years hope to buy a very nice Microscope..... also a Telescope. I will not be sharing. I'm mean that way. :D

[Elizabeth in WA]

We do labs with one other family. We shared their expensive microscope and slides last year and we bought the specimens and kits for the four dissections. We had siblings and another family join for the frog dissection, but each family paid for the extra specimens and mini-kits they needed to do them. For this year, I have spend close to four figures on chemistry glassware, hardware, and chemicals to share with the family we do chemistry labs with. This is largely because I am the one whose heart is set on doing full fledged, non micro chemistry labs, but still I would not feel comfortable with going from sharing all this expensive glassware with one family we are close friends with to a coop with strangers. We specifically don't do co-ops for one thing, and for another, replacement costs are high and take time, which could set back our lab schedule. Since oldest intends to take the AP exam, timing is not flexible for us.

[Amy in NH]

do experiments with (friend's daughter) since their family is having a hard time meeting other homeschoolers this year, and you said fine." He said, "I was totally fine with that, but I don't like classes full of homeschoolers."

 

 

This is what I was thinking when I read your OP. Doing labs with a friend is a lot different than running a class full of homeschoolers. I wouldn't blame you one bit if you backed out of the thing altogether since it's obviously not what you originally had planned.

[TravelingChris]

We have two expensive microscopes (let's just say that together they are close to 1K). No, I would not take them to a co-op even though I guess we could afford to replace it but it certainly isn't in our plans. I don't consider our microscopes really portable. I mean, they can be moved but they are heavy and big and not easily moved. So I have the same rule as you- someone can come over and look at the microscope with my dd supervising and she has done that before. But to transport it to another place and have it in a school situation-no.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Well, DH called me back and told me that he didn't think I should make the boys do a larger co-op/class if they don't want to. I'm going to back out of the whole shebang. They have three families, so they don't need us now.

 

I don't like to let people down, or make them think badly of me! But I like it even less to conscript my boys to a regularly-scheduled activity that they don't want to do.

 

Signed,

Flaky Homeschooler

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I don't think that I would tell people that I think their kids would be rough with the expensive science equipment. (Somehow, that runs opposite to the expectation of careful, deliberate lab safety that I'd be trying to foster.)

 

What about something like:

 

Wow, I had no idea that so many families would be interested in the science labs. The potential group has grown far beyond my earlier expectations.

 

In order that everyone get the most out of the lab experience, it is important that all of the students have an opportunity for hands on practice with the dissections. My recommendation is that each student have: (Here you should list the equipment you expect each student to have, including the specimins. You might want to give links to appropriate kits from Rainbow Resource or other science providers.)

 

Because there will be too many students to effectively use one microscope as part of dissections, I will send out links to some sites that give up close images after each dissection.

 

 

 

If there is a specific lab that really needs to have a microscope (maybe single celled organisms, then I think you could probably bring the scope in for that one lab, but only have it out when you are right there supervising its use. (This is what I've watched my friend do with similar labs.)

 

And I think that expecting the families to spend something (on supplies) for the class will help them to take the labs more seriously. If they aren't willing to spend anything on the lab at all, I think they would be more prone to blowing it off or acting inappropriately.

 

And FWIW, I would expect that a science lab would either have a materials fee and an equipment deposit (for something like a science center or a long standing coop) or that I would be providing the gear for my kids to use.

 

(No offense intended to those who are strapped for money. And for actual friends, I would do a lot to help them participate. But my experience is that many families (homeschooling, scouting) have contempt for activities that haven't cost them anything. I've seen too many families have a something-for-nothing attitude that ended up costing those around them time and money.)

 

ETA: I just read the update and it sounds like you have things well in hand. Funny how something will sound great at one point and then morph. I'm just realizing how much a weekly coop for one kid is going to tie us down from doing the traveling extravaganzas I'd hoped for. I wasn't paying close enough attention.

Edited August 9, 2011 by Sebastian (a lady)

[Mrs Mungo]

I don't think that I would tell people that I think their kids would be rough with the expensive science equipment. (Somehow, that runs opposite to the expectation of careful, deliberate lab safety that I'd be trying to foster.)

 

What about something like:

 

Wow, I had no idea that so many families would be interested in the science labs. The potential group has grown far beyond my earlier expectations.

 

In order that everyone get the most out of the lab experience, it is important that all of the students have an opportunity for hands on practice with the dissections. My recommendation is that each student have: (Here you should list the equipment you expect each student to have, including the specimins. You might want to give links to appropriate kits from Rainbow Resource or other science providers.)

 

Because there will be too many students to effectively use one microscope as part of dissections, I will send out links to some sites that give up close images after each dissection.

 

 

 

If there is a specific lab that really needs to have a microscope (maybe single celled organisms, then I think you could probably bring the scope in for that one lab, but only have it out when you are right there supervising its use. (This is what I've watched my friend do with similar labs.)

 

And I think that expecting the families to spend something (on supplies) for the class will help them to take the labs more seriously. If they aren't willing to spend anything on the lab at all, I think they would be more prone to blowing it off or acting inappropriately.

 

And FWIW, I would expect that a science lab would either have a materials fee and an equipment deposit (for something like a science center or a long standing coop) or that I would be providing the gear for my kids to use.

 

(No offense intended to those who are strapped for money. And for actual friends, I would do a lot to help them participate. But my experience is that many families (homeschooling, scouting) have contempt for activities that haven't cost them anything. I've seen too many families have a something-for-nothing attitude that ended up costing those around them time and money.)

 

ETA: I just read the update and it sounds like you have things well in hand. Funny how something will sound great at one point and then morph. I'm just realizing how much a weekly coop for one kid is going to tie us down from doing the traveling extravaganzas I'd hoped for. I wasn't paying close enough attention.

 

I tend to agree with this. Are these extra parents investing anything in the class at all? Are they teaching some of the classes or something?

[AuntieM]

Amy, you are so NOT a flake!

 

If things had remained what you committed to, fine. But they've not. So you have every right to back out (and in your shoes, I'd do the same).

 

I am just snickering a bit trying to imagine the "What are we gonna do about a microscope NOW?!!" conversation amongst the remaining members. :D

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

They have some microscopes, so it isn't like I left them hopeless and scope-less.

 

LOL

[angela in ohio]

Well, DH called me back and told me that he didn't think I should make the boys do a larger co-op/class if they don't want to. I'm going to back out of the whole shebang. They have three families, so they don't need us now.

 

I don't like to let people down, or make them think badly of me! But I like it even less to conscript my boys to a regularly-scheduled activity that they don't want to do.

 

Signed,

Flaky Homeschooler

 

I think you are doing the right thing. It sounds like people were looking for a free ride. I am willing to give free rides to friends or other families in an honestly very tight situation, but not to homeschoolers in general anymore. I've btdt too many times. :)