AuntieM Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Do you all think this sort of thing will happen more frequently until there is an actual schism in the community? Until? I believe it's already here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 I say vote with your dollar! If it offends you do not support it financially..I just cancelled our cable today..we'll rely on Netflix streaming for programs..which really we do not have time for anymore. I would love for there to be a 'just the facts' programming...NPR is biased, CNN is biased, Foxnews is biased, so I just will not support any of them....I'll find the facts myself and make a decision. Easy in today's surfing abilities with the net! :iagree::iagree::iagree: I have also not stepped into Walmart in 8 years, or bought Nike since they resigned Michael Vick (and I love Nike, I'm an Oregonian) As our queen SWB is watching this thread, Has she ever thought of starting a Classical Homeschool Magazine that *gasp* talks about homeschooling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Until? I believe it's already here... I think things will get much uglier before it's over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 As our queen SWB is watching this thread, Has she ever thought of starting a Classical Homeschool Magazine that *gasp* talks about homeschooling? Man, I can bet her plate is full beyond capacity, but that would be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 Man, I can bet her plate is full beyond capacity, but that would be awesome. Yes, one can dream though :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 (edited) I think things will get much uglier before it's over. Sadly, I agree. But I have to admit, I'm glad it's becoming recognizable. Over the past several years, I've found myself going against the current of home schoolers around me, and being made to feel like the one who's in error. Because I'm no longer "conservative" enough to fit the old mold (the one that hasn't noticed its own drift towards unquestioning patriarchy). It's good to know that I'm not the only one feeling and seeing it. Edited August 8, 2011 by AuntieM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 :thumbup1: I assumed animal liberation was referring to the conservation efforts - saving endangered animals, etc. Animal liberation would be referring to the occasional oddball case you hear about demanding that animals be given the same rights as people. It may also refer to PETA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Animal liberation would be referring to the occasional oddball case you hear about demanding that animals be given the same rights as people. It may also refer to PETA. I would be assuming that it's referring to groups such as this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Liberation_Front Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I think things will get much uglier before it's over. So what if there isn't agreement? There is plenty of ugliness in the world that I'm ignoring on other topics (religion, politics, world affairs, familiy matters). The folks at this or that homeschool mag aren't my mom. They aren't my MIL or other extended family. I really don't care what opinion they hold. OK, not totally true. To the extent that a curriculum reflects a world view that I can't accept (and that happens from both directions), then I want to know; so I can rule it out. But that someone disagrees with me? That's nothing new. I've been dealing with that since I was a teen. If we (as a group) are going to do more than talk about different opinions being ok, then we have to accept the fact that all sorts of opinions exist that we don't like. That doesn't mean that there is a schism. It just means that homeschoolers aren't as monolithic as they are somehow portrayed. After all, it's not like we're all going to the same church or all unschoolers or Latin buffs. So don't get TOS if it doesn't float your boat. I'm not sure I get all of the angst over it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoxcell Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I don't really think the writer of this particular article is really Tea Party per say. In fact I just think it was a poorly written article that really never made a point. I have no idea why he would lump the Civil Rights movement with those other ones:confused:. I have subscribed to the Old School House Mag for awhile and in general enjoy the articles(mostly I just like the curriculum and how to ones anyways). I think the best coarse of action is to express your feelings to the editor and see what they say. Also I do not hold to the back in the good old days sentiments. Since the fall of man this world has been full of sin and sinful people. Yes I do agree that our society in general is more accepting of sin, but that doesn't make the 50's some golden age.;) I didn't read all the responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 So don't get TOS if it doesn't float your boat. I'm not sure I get all of the angst over it though. I think the angst is really only coming from a minority. I think people are somewhat ticked off to find that not only are there very few magazines for homeschoolers, but that those magazines aren't so much about homeschooling as about promoting a specific religious/political agenda. Personally, I don't care at all. I think the extreme faction that TOS represents is the only one trying to create a schism. They are, as a group, exclusionists to begin with, so this is nothing new. They are so extreme, though, that it is hard for anyone with a middle-of-the-road sensibility to take them seriously. I am sure they will implode by themselves just fine. I think I will probably giggle with schadenfreude when they do. I find them more amusing than threatening anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShutterBug Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 So what if there isn't agreement? There is plenty of ugliness in the world that I'm ignoring on other topics (religion, politics, world affairs, familiy matters). The folks at this or that homeschool mag aren't my mom. They aren't my MIL or other extended family. I really don't care what opinion they hold. OK, not totally true. To the extent that a curriculum reflects a world view that I can't accept (and that happens from both directions), then I want to know; so I can rule it out. But that someone disagrees with me? That's nothing new. I've been dealing with that since I was a teen. If we (as a group) are going to do more than talk about different opinions being ok, then we have to accept the fact that all sorts of opinions exist that we don't like. That doesn't mean that there is a schism. It just means that homeschoolers aren't as monolithic as they are somehow portrayed. After all, it's not like we're all going to the same church or all unschoolers or Latin buffs. So don't get TOS if it doesn't float your boat. I'm not sure I get all of the angst over it though. Agreed :). Honestly....the ONLY place I hear talk of this great homeschooler schism is here, at the WTM forums. In real life, within the homeschooling community in my area, there is no schism. Yes, there are all different types of homeschoolers here...ranging from radical, secular unschoolers to ultra conservative traditional schoolers. Guess what though...despite the differences in religion, politics and homeschool philosophy we all manage to get along and support eachother. If you don't like TOS, don't buy it. If you like TOS, but don't like the new politically charged column, don't read the column. Folks just need to :chillpill: . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upward Journey Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Well, the problem with "just the facts" is: which facts? Every time you report one event, you're choosing not to report every other event in the world. One of the ways I deal with bias, personally, is that I listen to multiple sources with various bias. So I listen to NPR and I listen to our local conservative radio station. I regularly read both a feminist blog and an anti-feminist blog to see opposing reporting on social issues. Etc. If I can hear the same story reported from two sources with opposing biases, I feel like I get a more rounded view of the situation. You can kind of make a Venn diagram with each story, marking where both sources agree (probably true) and where they don't (possibly bias). This is what I do as well. Sadly, I agree. But I have to admit, I'm glad it's becoming recognizable. Over the past several years, I've found myself going against the current of home schoolers around me, and being made to feel like the one who's in error. Because I'm no longer "conservative" enough to fit the old mold (the one that hasn't noticed its own drift towards unquestioning patriarchy). It's good to know that I'm not the only one feeling and seeing it. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdalley Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 So what if there isn't agreement? There is plenty of ugliness in the world that I'm ignoring on other topics (religion, politics, world affairs, familiy matters). The folks at this or that homeschool mag aren't my mom. They aren't my MIL or other extended family. I really don't care what opinion they hold. OK, not totally true. To the extent that a curriculum reflects a world view that I can't accept (and that happens from both directions), then I want to know; so I can rule it out. But that someone disagrees with me? That's nothing new. I've been dealing with that since I was a teen. If we (as a group) are going to do more than talk about different opinions being ok, then we have to accept the fact that all sorts of opinions exist that we don't like. That doesn't mean that there is a schism. It just means that homeschoolers aren't as monolithic as they are somehow portrayed. After all, it's not like we're all going to the same church or all unschoolers or Latin buffs. So don't get TOS if it doesn't float your boat. I'm not sure I get all of the angst over it though. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Agreed :). Honestly....the ONLY place I hear talk of this great homeschooler schism is here, at the WTM forums. In real life, within the homeschooling community in my area, there is no schism. Yes, there are all different types of homeschoolers here...ranging from radical, secular unschoolers to ultra conservative traditional schoolers. Guess what though...despite the differences in religion, politics and homeschool philosophy we all manage to get along and support eachother. If you don't like TOS, don't buy it. If you like TOS, but don't like the new politically charged column, don't read the column. Folks just need to :chillpill: . So agree with this!!!!! I haven't read the article...I do subscribe to TOS. I do not agree 100% of the stuff in there. Proabably more like 80%. I do not throw the baby out with the bathwater. TOS has more good stuff than the bad or the disagreeable. I do not see what they put in there is bad but more like disagreeable which is ok. Please take a chill pill!! :chillpill::chillpill: It is bitter to swallow but you will feel better. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 (edited) So agree with this!!!!! I haven't read the article...I do subscribe to TOS. I do not agree 100% of the stuff in there. Proabably more like 80%. I do not throw the baby out with the bathwater. TOS has more good stuff than the bad or the disagreeable. I do not see what they put in there is bad but more like disagreeable which is ok. Please take a chill pill!! :chillpill::chillpill: It is bitter to swallow but you will feel better. :D I disagree. I won't give my money to an organization that supports the Pearls, who advocate hitting babies. I also will not give my money to an organization that endorses a campaign of misinformation and hate-inspiring attitude towards people who happen to disagree with them. Edited August 9, 2011 by Sis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I am not angsty about the magazine in question. I never subscribed and likely never would. I do think it is good for people to talk about because otherwise people get misled about what they are paying for. I agree that homeschoolers are not a monolithic group, and that a diverse population is all to the good. However, the last few years there have been a lot of changes in groups and that is not fun for the people (not me) getting asked to leave them. It is pretty hurtful for those people. Hey, maybe that hasn't gone on in your circles, I hope it doesn't. But to tell people to chill when you don't know anything about their experiences with such things? Not cool, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoxcell Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I won't give my money to an organization that supports the Pearls, who advocate hitting babies. I'm wondering where you get this idea from? I have never seen anything from the pearls in a TOS magazine.:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I'm wondering where you get this idea from? I have never seen anything from the pearls in a TOS magazine.:confused: http://thehomeschoolmagazine.com/Homeschool_Reviews/reviews.php?rid=767 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I'm wondering where you get this idea from? I have never seen anything from the pearls in a TOS magazine.:confused: They are well known supporters of the Pearls, google it. TOS has reviews of products from the Pearls on their website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 They are well known supporters of the Pearls, google it. TOS has reviews of products from the Pearls on their website. I just Googled it...to my horror, it's true. Glowing reviews of the Pearl's books and videos. When a magazine promotes the work of people who advocate child abuse it is beyond the pale. What a shame! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Agreed :). Honestly....the ONLY place I hear talk of this great homeschooler schism is here, at the WTM forums. In real life, within the homeschooling community in my area, there is no schism. Yes, there are all different types of homeschoolers here...ranging from radical, secular unschoolers to ultra conservative traditional schoolers. Guess what though...despite the differences in religion, politics and homeschool philosophy we all manage to get along and support eachother. If you don't like TOS, don't buy it. If you like TOS, but don't like the new politically charged column, don't read the column. Folks just need to :chillpill: . Well, where I'm at I can only find ultra conservative groups. Everytime I think I've found a secular or more relaxed group I find out they've closed. I am a Christian but the last group we tried had my daughter worried that being Hermoine for Halloween was sinful. :glare: It's no fun! I have found in my short amount of time homeschooling (only four years) that groups have become more conservative and the secular ones, at least in my area, seem to be disappearing. I wish there were more groups dedicated to just schooling our children instead of worrying about their faith ~ I've got that part covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoxcell Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Ok, so I did google it and everything that came up was from 2005, or 2006(including the review) except for this thread. I started subscribing in like 2008, or 2009 and I have never seen anything from or about the pearls in the magazine.:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Ok, so I did google it and everything that came up was from 2005, or 2006(including the review) except for this thread. I started subscribing in like 2008, or 2009 and I have never seen anything from or about the pearls in the magazine.:confused: http://thehomeschoolmagazine.com/How_To_Homeschool/articles/articles.php?aid=411 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 They are well known supporters of the Pearls, google it. TOS has reviews of products from the Pearls on their website. Ugh, now that is disturbing. I can let politics slide but will not support anything condoning this abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Man, I can bet her plate is full beyond capacity, but that would be awesome. :iagree: wouldn't it just. And it better have the option to be shipped international! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoxcell Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 http://thehomeschoolmagazine.com/How...es.php?aid=411 That article was written in 2005 as well. Look at the copyright at the bottom: http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/who-is-ngj/homeschool-pioneers/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 That article was written in 2005 as well. Look at the copyright at the bottom:http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/who-is-ngj/homeschool-pioneers/ For me personally, it doesn't matter whether the article endorsing the Peals was 6 years ago, 10 years ago or more, I want nothing to do with any group that supports child abuse. If you know of where they retracted their previous support of the Pearls, I would be curious to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 That article was written in 2005 as well. Look at the copyright at the bottom:http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/who-is-ngj/homeschool-pioneers/ It is still on their website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoxcell Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Yes it is still on the website, I'm just wondering if they have in fact distanced themselve from the Pearls KWIM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Yes it is still on the website, I'm just wondering if they have in fact distanced themselve from the Pearls KWIM. Generally if a publishers retracts something on a website they place it on the page with the article(s) or they remove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrid Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I disagree. I won't give my money to an organization that supports the Pearls, who advocate hitting babies. I also will not give my money to an organization that endorses a campaign of misinformation and hate-inspiring attitude towards people who happen to disagree with them. Yes. This. Exactly, and a thousandfold. astrid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curlylocks Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Background: Back in 9/10, I paid for a one-year subscription. Then in 11/10, they ran a special and I paid for another one-year subscription. (According to TOS, I was paid up until the Winter 2013 issue.) So, yesterday I requested a refund for both subscriptions = $17.95 I received part of it ($10.00) this afternoon in the form of a Paypal payment. I've sent another email asking about the remaining amount... :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCMom Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Agreed :). Honestly....the ONLY place I hear talk of this great homeschooler schism is here, at the WTM forums. In real life, within the homeschooling community in my area, there is no schism. Yes, there are all different types of homeschoolers here...ranging from radical, secular unschoolers to ultra conservative traditional schoolers. Guess what though...despite the differences in religion, politics and homeschool philosophy we all manage to get along and support eachother. If you don't like TOS, don't buy it. If you like TOS, but don't like the new politically charged column, don't read the column. Folks just need to :chillpill: . You're certainly blessed! But this is not reality where I live. This sort of thing has been an problem here and continues to be. The only organized group here has lost droves of people because of these issues. Non-traditional, non-ultraconservative hschoolers, who are not the "right" kind of Christian are NOT supported or welcomed in the homeschool community here any longer. This is a NEW thing - just in the last 3-4 years or so. So the excluded people will in time, make their own community, which is great. But apparently here we do not all get along and support each other; a person's stance on these issues does matter here. :thumbdown: Georgia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellesmere Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 (edited) I am not angsty about the magazine in question. I never subscribed and likely never would. I do think it is good for people to talk about because otherwise people get misled about what they are paying for. I agree that homeschoolers are not a monolithic group, and that a diverse population is all to the good. However, the last few years there have been a lot of changes in groups and that is not fun for the people (not me) getting asked to leave them. It is pretty hurtful for those people. Hey, maybe that hasn't gone on in your circles, I hope it doesn't. But to tell people to chill when you don't know anything about their experiences with such things? Not cool, IMO. Thank you so much for this. I'm thankful that a lot of people haven't felt excluded from homeschooling groups. But in my immediate area, we don't have diversity that I know of yet and I wouldn't be welcomed into the larger homeschool group because I do not adhere to their statement of faith. I wouldn't want to join it anyway (lovely people, but they would all try to force their faith on my child) but it doesn't seem right that I can't participate in homeschool group field trips and activities because my religious/political views do not line up with theirs. http://thehomeschoolmagazine.com/Homeschool_Reviews/reviews.php?rid=767 Thanks for posting. For me personally, it doesn't matter whether the article endorsing the Peals was 6 years ago, 10 years ago or more, I want nothing to do with any group that supports child abuse. If you know of where they retracted their previous support of the Pearls, I would be curious to see it. I agree. If they retracted their support, that should be shared, but it doesn't seem like they have. Either way, I wouldn't subscribe to the magazine, but the Pearls would make me give a serious warning about it. Edited August 9, 2011 by Clairelise forgot a word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulChaos Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I've never read it before, and I'm a conservative Christian, but to be honest I couldn't even finish the article... it got to where I felt like I was reading 'blah blah blah blah....' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulChaos Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Um, who are the Pearls??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Um, who are the Pearls??? http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/ Many of us are unhappy about using plumber's line to whip toddlers into submission, and the "overzealous" application of their techniques have led to more than one death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Um, who are the Pearls??? Michael and Debi Pearl. Google is your friend here, I would rather not link anything on either side of the controversy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justasque Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Um, who are the Pearls??? http://www.gospeltruth.net/children/pearl_tuac.htm "...STEPS TO OBEDIENCE One of our girls who developed mobility early had a fascination with crawling up the stairs. At four months she was too unknowing to be punished for disobedience. But for her own good, we attempted to train her not to climb the stairs by coordinating the voice command of "No" with little spats on the bare legs. The switch was a twelve-inch long, one-eighth-inch diameter sprig from a willow tree. Such was her fascination with climbing that four or five sessions had not made her stop. The thought of further spankings was disconcerting, so I conceived an alternative. After one more spanking, I laid the switch on the bottom step. We later observed her crawl to the stairs and start the ascent, only to halt at the first step and stare at the switch. She backed off and never again attempted to climb the stairs , even after the switch was removed... " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffeefreak Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 That article was a lot biased garbage along with being very uneducated. Shame on TOS. :iagree: Lately, their magazine has 1 good article, and the rest are a waste of time. I had begun to question whether I wanted to be associated with them at all and now, I DON'T. Thanks dolphin for calling my attention to this. I don't think I would have read the article if you hadn't. Why not write an email to TOS, and express you opinion on the article? I have not read the latest issue yet, so I can't comment on it. They just defend the article, quote a bunch of Bible verses, and call the people who question it ill informed. I've been reading the Letters to the Editor for a while now. I'm done. Hands down. :( Dorinda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I've never read it before, and I'm a conservative Christian, but to be honest I couldn't even finish the article... it got to where I felt like I was reading 'blah blah blah blah....' I'm realizing I'm increasingly conservative on many issues and becoming comfortable with the fact that that's not a bad thing. :) But conservative doesn't mean stupid. There's a real streak of stupid in political extremes and that article shows it off in spades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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