The Confederate Flag Rascist or Not?

[jamajo]

For the most part these boards are anonymous (I don't know anyone personally) so I appreciate your HONEST opinion.

 

We all know the history of the Civil War but what we all may not know is the negative connotation it has for those of African-American descent (much more so than other ethnic groups) for obvious reasons.

 

So if you do not have racist intents why would you display the flag in your home?

 

Here is my situation - DD13 (almost DD14) took her first private art lesson today in a fellow homeschooling mom's home. She has a nice studio in her basement. I stayed for the 2 hour instruction primarily in the adjacent family room where the flag hit me in the face and in the pit of my stomach. I was immediately uncomfortable and called several friends to get their perspective. So I took the advice of one friend and asked the mom "what does displaying the confederate flag mean to your family?"

 

Her reply "oh ... nothing ... my husband just likes many different things and he found the flag and wanted to display it. At first I was like well we don't represent the South .. we are actually Yankees....so I put up the Gettysburg Address right under the flag for context"

 

On the surface that sounds great and I really believe she is genuine. However, I can't get over someone being associated with any negative image (even if you view it as innocent) because of the controversy and the message you have to know it sends.

 

What say you? I'm sure everyone will answer from their own perspective and/or how they would handle this situation (which isn't relevant if you don't have my background). Try to think of people you know who display this flag and tell me what are their views (this is more accurate and honest of one's intent, generally speaking)? :bigear:

[Ellie]

Of course not.

 

Now, if she had, say, a KKK flag or emblem of some kind (I don't even know if such a thing exists), that would be racist.

 

But a Confederate flag? Of course not.

[lionfamily1999]

My sister has a piece of a Confederate flag framed in her house. It goes with a lot of other Civil War memorabilia they have. They live in an area with Civil War monuments every mile or so. She's not racist, the piece of the flag goes with the paintings and other odds and ends she has laying around.

 

I know a very nice guy, AA, who had a Confederate flag sticker on the back of his pickup truck. It wasn't to tick off AAs, it was because of his pride in his southern heritage. He flies one outside of his house too. His wife, white, takes some issue with this, but he says he refuses to let someone else tell him what that flag should mean to him.

 

I think that assuming there are racist intentions behind the display is showing an answering bias/stereotype. I understand why someone may be offended, and I have no reason to carry around the C flag, so I don't. All the same, I don't assume that a person who has one is racist. That's just stereotyping in another direction, iykwIm.

 

I've seen a swastika (spelling, sorry) displayed (not a Nazi flag, but a swastika) and felt my hackles go up, only to learn that it does not always equate to Nazis. Sometimes the Confederate flag does not equate to racist leanings either.

[regentrude]

I would assume some people display the confederate flag to honor family heritage because their ancestors fought, and maybe got killed fighting, on the confederate side.

[bbkaren]

I'm not from The South yet but my perception is flying the Confederate Flag is a matter of southern pride, not racism.

 

There are those who say the Civil War wasn't actually about "freeing the slaves" anyway but that's a topic for another day...:001_smile:

[Teachin'Mine]

Wow - I've always seen it as racist too. The people I've known who fly it in their yard want people to know that's the intent too. :confused: I think it belongs in museums and re-enactments. :leaving:

 

I would try to give the music teacher the benefit of the doubt, but if there was anything questionable in the interactions, I'd go elsewhere.

 

So many in the south still refer to it as the war of northern aggression. :svengo:

[Carol in Cal.]

I regard it as a racist act, although at times unintentional.

[Spy Car]

I would have about the same reaction as seeing Nazi flag displayed it a person's home.

 

"States Rights" is a code-word for the right of some people (White people) to enslave other people (Black people).

 

No way around that.

 

Bill

[BeckyFL]

I always wonder what people are thinking when they fly that flag. It does seems racist to me, as if they are still on that side wishing that the south had won.

I did hear a funny story though. A teen was wearing a shirt with a confederate flag to high school. His history teacher asked him if he was trying to make a statement by wearing that flag. He said, "No, I'm just a redneck so I wear the redneck flag." The teacher asked him if he knew the origin of the flag and he had no idea. To him it was just "the redneck flag".

[bbkaren]

I've seen kids walk around in Che Guevara shirts, thinking he was a feisty, rebellious youth, not realizing what he actually was... a terrorist and a murderer.

 

I guess there's folks walking around making statements they're unaware of all over.

[Teachin'Mine]

I always wonder what people are thinking when they fly that flag. It does seems racist to me, as if they are still on that side wishing that the south had won.

I did hear a funny story though. A teen was wearing a shirt with a confederate flag to high school. His history teacher asked him if he was trying to make a statement by wearing that flag. He said, "No, I'm just a redneck so I wear the redneck flag." The teacher asked him if he knew the origin of the flag and he had no idea. To him it was just "the redneck flag".

 

 

Aren't most "rednecks" (stereotypical) racist? :gnorsi:

[bbkaren]

Aren't most "rednecks" (stereotypical) racist? :gnorsi:

 

I see. So stereotypes are okay sometimes...but not others?

 

Depends on whether or not the stereotype advances our cause?

[NanceXToo]

I would assume some people display the confederate flag to honor family heritage because their ancestors fought, and maybe got killed fighting, on the confederate side.

 

This tends to be what I think.... so while I wouldn't display one (and was never from the south), it doesn't really bother me when I see it displayed.

 

My husband on the other hand gets really irritated by it when he sees one. He thinks people who would display it are either racist, ignorant, or both.

[Teachin'Mine]

I see. So stereotypes are okay sometimes...but not others?

 

Depends on whether or not the stereotype advances our cause?

 

:lol: No. That's why I used the word "stereotypical". :)

 

Redneck means different things to different people. Generally (stereotypically) they are not too accepting of different people and cultures.

 

I have a cause? :001_huh:

[Spy Car]

I've seen kids walk around in Che Guevara shirts, thinking he was a feisty, rebellious youth, not realizing what he actually was... a terrorist and a murderer.

 

I guess there's folks walking around making statements they're unaware of all over.

 

I see. So stereotypes are okay sometimes...but not others?

 

Depends on whether or not the stereotype advances our cause?

 

Description of Red Herring

 

A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:

 

Topic A is under discussion.

Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to topic A (when topic B is actually not relevant to topic A).

Topic A is abandoned.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because merely changing the topic of discussion hardly counts as an argument against a claim.

[Amy1k]

I consider it racist.

[Harriet Vane]

I can assure you that my African-American friends and neighbors understand it to be a racist symbol. If your friend does not have African-American friends she may not really understand this--her intent may be pure, but that does not change the message of that flag for African-Americans.

[Teachin'Mine]

Spy Car wrote:

 

Description of Red Herring

 

A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:

 

Topic A is under discussion.

Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to topic A (when topic B is actually not relevant to topic A).

Topic A is abandoned.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because merely changing the topic of discussion hardly counts as an argument against a claim.

 

Are you sure that's not a redneck herring? :D

Edited August 3, 2011 by Teachin'Mine

[Spy Car]

Are you sure that's not a redneck herring? :D

 

:lol:

[abacus2]

I regard it as a racist act, although at times unintentional.

 

Yes. Some people don't mean to be, but the association is too strong for the flag to be displayed without the implication of racism.

[Harriet Vane]

I would have about the same reaction as seeing Nazi flag displayed it a person's home.

 

"States Rights" is a code-word for the right of some people (White people) to enslave other people (Black people).

 

No way around that.

 

Bill

:iagree:

[Ellie]

Many people view it as a symbol of state's rights, ie, less federal government intrusion, much the same way as the "don't tread on me" flags. It doesn't mean racism necessarily, although some people might use it that way.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[CindyH in NC]

And if not racist at least very hurtful. I don't understand the southern pride reasoning when it has the potential to offend as it does. As someone mentioned if it was in a display of other Civil War memorabilia it would probably seem different. I don't know.

 

Cindy

[bbkaren]

Spy Car wrote:

 

 

 

Are you sure that's not a redneck herring? :D

 

 

Potentially lol

 

However, I bring up the Che Guevara misrepresentation, as an illustration that...sometimes people do something for their OWN reasons, that might be perceived as offensive to others for THEIR own reasons.

 

So perhaps the OP's friend has the flag displayed out of her southern heritage. But does it not make more sense, rather than judging her outright by the "stereotype"...to see if she displays racist behavior?

 

And in my opinion, saying "Aren't most "rednecks" (stereotypical) racist?" is just like saying "Aren't most "black people" (stereotypical) criminals?"

 

If you believe in stereotypes and judge by stereotypes then you're a bigot, even when you're arguing against racism.

 

Just because someone chooses to live a more simple, rural life and not to become a part of "enlightened" (stereotypical) urban society doesn't make them a racist.

[Teachin'Mine]

Potentially lol

 

However, I bring up the Che Guevara misrepresentation, as an illustration that...sometimes people do something for their OWN reasons, that might be perceived as offensive to others for THEIR own reasons.

 

So perhaps the OP's friend has the flag displayed out of her southern heritage. But does it not make more sense, rather than judging her outright by the "stereotype"...to see if she displays racist behavior?

 

And in my opinion, saying "Aren't most "rednecks" (stereotypical) racist?" is just like saying "Aren't most "black people" (stereotypical) criminals?"

 

If you believe in stereotypes and judge by stereotypes then you're a bigot, even when you're arguing against racism.

 

Just because someone chooses to live a more simple, rural life and not to become a part of "enlightened" (stereotypical) urban society doesn't make them a racist.

 

That's why I said this in my first post:

 

"I would try to give the music teacher the benefit of the doubt, but if there was anything questionable in the interactions, I'd go elsewhere."

 

Redneck isn't a physical description or a race - it's an attitude if you will. So what I said is appropriate. It's no different than saying a yuppie, or a geek ... Making stereotypical derogatory comments because of a person's race is racist. That's the meaning of the word.

 

Redneck can have the description you've used, but it has others, I would venture to say more commonly used, as well.

 

But again, this thread is about the display of confederate flags.

 

ETA: This is from Wikipedia:

 

"In recent decades, the term expanded its meaning to mean bigoted, loutish, and opposed to modern ways,[7] and has often been used to attack Southern conservatives and racists.[8] At the same time, some Southern whites have reclaimed the word, using it with pride and defiance as a self-identifier.[9]

Edited August 3, 2011 by Teachin'Mine

[angela in ohio]

Boy, I wish we could keep conversations like this on the General Board.

 

Pretty, pretty please...

[bbkaren]

I guess I'll have to agree to disagree with you on this:

 

"Redneck isn't a physical description or a race - it's an attitude if you will. So what I said is appropriate."

 

And I said it was bigoted, not racist, to contribute to stereotypes of any sort. Doesn't matter what aspect of the person you're being bigoted about.

 

If you speak with 1,000 rednecks and ask them what defines them as rednecks, I wonder how many will say "because I hate blacks." It's a rural mentality that defines a redneck, a simple lifestyle, in my opinion. And there's nothing wrong with that. Judging those folks by a stereotype is the same as judging others by another stereotype.

 

But I maintain, as Reverend King would say, judge the person by the content of their character, not what you perceive at the outset. If you don't get to know someone you can't know what their intentions are.

[bbkaren]

Boy, I wish we could keep conversations like this on the General Board.

 

Pretty, pretty please...

 

:-/

 

Sorry, I don't know the protocol on that; didn't realize it was out of line. Sorry for the drift.

[thowell]

So this thread is to discuss if the Confederate flag is a symbol of racism against the black race and others are stereotyping "rednecks" as evil racist people. Somebody please tell me why a flag that may make some think of racism towards one culture is a bad thing but obvious racist slander towards "rednecks" which would be predominantly from a white culture is ok??????????

[jamajo]

Boy, I wish we could keep conversations like this on the General Board.

 

Pretty, pretty please...

 

 

Please forgive me for that. I'm so use to posting on the high school regarding my DD13, I didn't even take into consideration that the topic wasn't high school related.

 

My apologies.

[WTMCassandra]

To me, it depends on what state she lives in. In some southern states, it *is* fairly common and can connote state pride. However, I would be a bit leery . . .

[lewelma]

I grew up in Richmond and graduated in 1987. Our high school mascot was a confederate soldier. The team was called "The Rebels," and the school flag which we waved at all pep rallies and school games was the Confederate flag. As far as I was concerned, it meant nothing except school spirit. But the African American population of the school was only about 5% so I do wonder how they felt, and whether the flag is still used today at the school.

 

Ruth in NZ

[Teachin'Mine]

I'm sorry also. This is definitely not appropriate here.

 

FTR, in the sense of a country boy, my husband is a redneck. :)

[Renee in NC]

So this thread is to discuss if the Confederate flag is a symbol of racism against the black race and others are stereotyping "rednecks" as evil racist people. Somebody please tell me why a flag that may make some think of racism towards one culture is a bad thing but obvious racist slander towards "rednecks" which would be predominantly from a white culture is ok??????????

 

I would say neither are correct. My dh doesn't like the "redneck" label and tends toward "country" instead (to avoid the negative stereotype.) He is most certainly not racist, but definitely redneck.:tongue_smilie:

 

As for the Confederate flag - not in my house. My 10yo won a T-shirt at a mud run once (there's the redneck for you!:D) It had something about "rebel" on it and a truck with a confederate flag in the window. I would not let him keep it. I told him that it *could* hurt someone's feelings and that it could give someone the wrong impression about him as a person.

 

It isn't worth it - states rights or not.

[Slartibartfast]

Yes, it is racist.

 

The confederate flag is a symbol of the intentions behind the Civil War.

 

It is obvious that the number one reason for secession was slavery, thus the Confederate flag to me is a symbol for racism.

 

If I went to someone's home and they had the flag displayed that would end any further relationship with that person. I would not allow my children, who are NA, to be around someone who holds such values.

 

Your friend sounds a bit goofy, I would try and explain a bit more about my feelings but I wouldn't be comfortable with visiting a home where that flag was displayed

Edited August 4, 2011 by Sis

[Parrothead]

No, I don't see the Confederate Flag as a symbol of racism. Nor are all rednecks racists.

[Amy in NH]

Yes.

[tntgoodwin]

Many people view it as a symbol of state's rights, ie, less federal government intrusion, much the same way as the "don't tread on me" flags. It doesn't mean racism necessarily, although some people might use it that way.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[mommaduck]

No, I don't see the Confederate Flag as a symbol of racism. Nor are all rednecks racists.

 

:iagree: And some "rednecks" are black or biracial.

[UnsinkableKristen]

Yes, it is racist.

 

The confederate flag is a symbol of the intentions behind the Civil War.

 

It is obvious that the number one reason for secession was slavery, thus the Confederate flag to me is a symbol for racism.

 

If I went to someone's home and they had the flag displayed that would end any further relationship with that person. I would not allow my children, who are NA, to be around someone who holds such values.

 

Your friend sounds a bit goofy, I would try and explain a bit more about my feelings but I wouldn't be comfortable with visiting a home where that flag was displayed

 

 

This confuses me.

 

For the record, I do not display the confederate flag in my home. I have no reason to.

 

However, if some one has told you - in words and in actions - that they are NOT racist and that they display the flag within a larger display of Civil War memorabilia would you still insist that they ARE racist? What if the displayer of the flag was African American? Would you still insist they were racist?

 

I guess what I am confused about is the declarative statement that there are no other possible motivations behind displaying that particular flag other than racism when other posters have clearly stated that there are.

[Firefly]

Hmm, well... we don't see many of those in these parts. :D I don't think my first thought would be "racist" if I came across one, though. I'd be curious and want to hear more about why the person was displaying it before I jumped to conclusions.

[Pink Fairy]

Right or wrong, it would make me uncomfortable to see it displayed in someone's home. Also, I would never display it myself, because I know it's a painful reminder to many people. Regardless of intention, it seems unnecessarily provocative.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I've seen a swastika (spelling, sorry) displayed (not a Nazi flag, but a swastika) and felt my hackles go up, only to learn that it does not always equate to Nazis. Sometimes the Confederate flag does not equate to racist leanings either.

 

Risking Spy Car's wrath at a red herring to say that the swastika is a non-racist symbol in Buddhism. So yes, symbols are not racist in and of themselves.

[edelweiss]

No, I don't think it is racist and it wouldn't bother me at all to see it displayed in someone's house. If the person exhibited signs of racism, it would certainly concern me, but with the absence of such evidence, I would assume that her explanation is valid. It is simply a symbol of southern pride for many people.

[amy g.]

Warning, Red Herring to follow:

 

I remember when my sister's Canadian girlfriend visited us in New Orleans. She was so upset about the statue of Robert E. Lee. She felt it was highly inappropriate.

 

I said, "Why shouldn't we have statues of confederate leaders? These are our heroes."

 

Then I went and named Miss Happy after Stonewall Jackson.

 

It's a good thing she loves me anyway.

[Daisy]

No, I don't see the Confederate Flag as a symbol of racism. Nor are all rednecks racists.

 

:iagree:

 

To assume that everyone who displays a confederate flag is racist, is ignorant.

[Mrs Mungo]

I feel it is a symbol of racism. I wouldn't necessarily assume someone displaying it was racist; it would depend upon the context.

 

For example, racists in Oklahoma used to cover the Native American shield on the license plates with a Confederate flag sticker.

[Slartibartfast]

:iagree:

 

To assume that everyone who displays a confederate flag is racist, is ignorant.

 

I would think it was racism or ignorance, lots of people are ignorant enough to think the Civil War was about state's rights.

[Chelli]

Where I went to high school most of the boys were members of the KKK (I would say 75%). Our high school baseball team wore Confederate flag bandannas underneath their caps during games (our mascot was a pirate so it had nothing to do with that!). Those boys were wearing the Confederate flag as a rascist symbol.

 

That being said...I would not automatically assume that the Confederate flag being displayed meant someone was rascist. It won't take you very long to find out if they are (at least in my experience). However, I think that in the context you discribed this flag (being in a display of other Civil War things in a home), that I would tend to believe the woman's story.

 

I just wish that rascist/hateful/bigoted groups would not tarnish a perfectly acceptable piece of Southern/US history by turning it into some kind of symbol for a cause that is revolting.

[Heidi]

I was raised in the South and did not view the Confederate flag as a racist symbol, but as a symbol of the South.

However, I was also very sheltered... raised in a county where the first AA in my school moved in during my senior year (2000). I don't recall learning much about the Civil War or slavery, except from what you learn from a brief chapter in a text book at school, nor did I think much about it as a teenager.

 

Now, however, especialy after reading Uncle Tom's Cabin and bawling through almost the whole thing, and fighting the urge to hug every AA in Walmart afterwards... I wouldn't dare be associated with a confederate flag and what it could "potentially" mean. Maybe those that are ok with it are as ignorant to the discusting horrors of slavery as I was. ?

 

Sure, you can view it as the flag of the South, but the thought of it sending a negative message like the one the OP received, I would stay far from it, personally. I'm ashamed to admit I had a confederate flag tag on the front of my car as a teen. Dumb, ignorant me.

 

On the other hand, I would not automatically assume a person with a confederate flag agrees with slavery or is racist. I certainly wasn't.