My 5 Year Old Won't Sleep!

[july19]

Okay, fine. He DOES indeed sleep. But he doesn't sleep very much. And, I think it's starting to take a toll on my insanity. And grammar. Let me first explain that from birth, Deacon has never ever slept well. So this is nothing new. But lately, it's actually getting worse.....and I didn't think it could!

 

So here's the deal. We have tried everything. Everything. I don't mean "everything except these list of things". I mean everything. In no particular order:

 

-New bed sheets.

-New night lights.

-No night light.

-Eliminate naps.

-Put naps back in.

-Took them out again.....it's much worse with naps.

-Warm (soy) milk.

-Eliminate TV & other electronics two hours before bedtime.

-Extra stories at night.

-Singing softly.

-Extra cuddle time.

-Let him "yell it out" to realize that we won't always cave.

-Sleep study to rule out sleep apnea.

-Eliminated added sugar out of his diet completely.

-Rearranged his room.

-New stuffed animal for "protection".

-Ensure he's kept active during the day (I swear this makes it worse, too...more on that in a minute).

-Counseling with a family friend who is a child therapist to make sure it isn't anxiety or nightmares.

-Warm showers and soothing lotions.

-Briefly tinkering with a different routine and tried switching up the order of things.

-White noise machine (which he definitely prefers to have on, but didn't help with sleeping more!)

-So much more that I can't remember because I'm too tired...I will probably edit this as the day goes on because I know I am definitely missing things on this list.

 

 

We have a rigid, consistent routine. Every night, we start pajamas and teeth brushing at 8:10, in bed with stories by 8:20, done by 8:50. And yet, he's still up at 10:30/11:00, 11:30. Most nights, he calls for us the entire time! For stuff like an extra drink of water, needs to pee for the 5th time, wants his stuffed animals a certain exact way, wants his door open more, wants his door closed more, etc. Some nights, he calls for us for an hour and then will quiet down....but is still awake singing to himself or his stuffed animals. Then, he's up again at 2 am. He needs more water. Up again at 4. Needs to pee again (which we keep telling him he doesn't need to call us for, he can go alone...but he says he's scared to be up in the middle of the night without one of us up, too...which makes me feel bad...so I get up with him because I hate the thought of him being scared =( ). Then he's up for the day at 5:45/6:00 am! Day after day after day after day.

 

He's in a loving, safe home. It's impeccably clean at all times. We eat a pretty good diet with lots of organic foods and lots of fruits and veggies. We can't have lactose or gluten in our diet and he's been tested for any other allergies, asthma, GERD, and other ailments that could be causing this and everything has come back normal. Our pediatrician is under the belief that when a tired child in a dark, quiet room isn't sleeping, it very well could be medical. But we haven't found anything yet! Deacon isn't taking cat naps in the car, he has lots of quiet down activities in the evening. We often read together at night to signal a "let down" to start the bedtime routine. He isn't jealous of another sibling because he doesn't have any (I'm not even pregnant) and there's been no big changes in his life (that he's aware of, at least).

 

And, to be honest, it wouldn't be so horrible if he was still a happy, agreeable kid during the day. And sometimes, he still is. But man...some days, he's so exhausted by 3pm that my sweet little guy has been taken over by a demon! He's a completely different kid. He gets so angry he pounds his fists on his thighs, he screams and kicks, he throws toys. He whines so much about every. single. thing. And whining is just something that I can't stand. But it's like he's bipolar...I just don't understand. I'm scared and worried for my little guy. He's such an amazingly sweet kid, full of empathy, selflessness, and kindness....until he gets tired. And it's seriously like something else is taking over his little body. And man - it happens SO FAST. No warning. It's like someone flipped a switch. He's always disciplined accordingly, but I feel bad disciplining him when he's only acting like this because he's exhausted. And, luckily, the episodes are pretty short lived and he's usually back to my jovial sweet little guy within the hour. But....uuugh.

 

And on these days, his OCD tenancies are in the EXTREME. Every food item has to be perfect and exactly how HE wanted it in his head (man, I have some horror stories involving this....yikes). We have to play just right with his toys and heaven forbid we do something that he doesn't want, the demon side comes forth even worse. Everything all day has to just be "perfect" and we're supposed to like...read his mind. It's so tiring.

 

And here's another frustrating thing. I mentioned the "keep active" part above? I swear to you it makes it worse. Take this past Saturday and Sunday. On Saturday, we schooled all morning. Around noon, we went hiking. Beautiful day, not too hot, gorgeous. 4 hour hike through hilly (but safe!) terrain. Afterwards, we came home and my husband and son went back outside to ride bikes and play baseball and basketball in the yard for another 2 hours. Came in, ate a decent but not too heavy meal of turkey and veggie pinwheels and homemade organic sugar-free applesauce. After showers we ended the day with a quiet game of Sequence. My son slept less than FOUR hours TOTAL. But yesterday? We had a relaxed day. Two craft projects. Not a lot of school work, just practicing phonics. We cuddled up with a couple movies in the afternoon. My son slept almost SEVEN. What the frank?? And if we do multiple days of quiet stuff, he still sleeps better. Multiple days of lots of activities (want to hear my Disney horror story!?) and sports and hiking and geocaching and whatnot, he still doesn't sleep. :banghead:

 

And, I'm going to hate how selfish this next part is going to sound...but when he calls for four hours after bedtime...I really resent the missed time with my husband. He has a hugely demanding work and school schedule. Some weeks he doesn't get a day off at all. And in those few precious hours before bedtime, we need that time to talk. I love being home with my son and all that jazz...but I NEED my husband time. And school is starting again soon for my husband and I will be seeing even less of him soon. I know that sounds greedy. But I love my husband and when we have devoted an already 15 straight hours of time to our son, we want *us* time, too.

 

And, to finalize this already horribly long post (if you're still reading this by this point, I owe you a cookie), Deacons calling and being awake for hours past bedtime is cutting into OUR sleeping, too. Not only the getting up several times a night thing, but also because ideally, we'd be asleep by 10/10:30 pm. My husband and I get up at 5 am so he can make it to work by 6 am. We're averaging about 3 hours a night...and that's just not enough. My husband is still battling a mystery illness and really really really needs every ounce of sleep he can get. I'm worried about all three of us, at this point.

 

Any suggestions? Or any one experiencing similar? Or have you survived something similar?

[Parrothead]

Have you tried sleeping with him?

 

Just crawl into his bed at bedtime and go to sleep. He might stay quiet all night knowing you are right there when he wakes himself up.

[Parrothead]

 

And here's another frustrating thing. I mentioned the "keep active" part above? I swear to you it makes it worse. Take this past Saturday and Sunday. On Saturday, we schooled all morning. Around noon, we went hiking. Beautiful day, not too hot, gorgeous. 4 hour hike through hilly (but safe!) terrain. Afterwards, we came home and my husband and son went back outside to ride bikes and play baseball and basketball in the yard for another 2 hours. Came in, ate a decent but not too heavy meal of turkey and veggie pinwheels and homemade organic sugar-free applesauce. After showers we ended the day with a quiet game of Sequence. My son slept less than FOUR hours TOTAL. But yesterday? We had a relaxed day. Two craft projects. Not a lot of school work, just practicing phonics. We cuddled up with a couple movies in the afternoon. My son slept almost SEVEN. What the frank?? And if we do multiple days of quiet stuff, he still sleeps better. Multiple days of lots of activities (want to hear my Disney horror story!?) and sports and hiking and geocaching and whatnot, he still doesn't sleep. :banghead:

 

This sounds like classic over tired. I know when my insomnia acts up and I'm awake and active way too much, I can't turn it off to go to sleep or alternately I go to sleep and end up waking up with too much running around in my head.

[ChristusG]

This sounds *exactly* like my 7 year old DD was. From the ages of about 4 - 6, getting her to sleep at night was HORRIBLE. I believe I even started a thread about it here....possibly multiple threads LOL. When she turned 7, it magically got better. She still doesn't require as much sleep as other kids, but she goes to bed and falls asleep MUCH easier. With us, we tried everything as well....it seems that it took a little time and maturity with our DD.

[july19]

See? I knew I missed something on my list. Yeah, I tried. 6 nights in a row. And it was bad news. I slept worse than I did normally. Deacon would wake up and want to play. And, my husband and I hated not be next to one another. The lack of intimacy killed us. We both were ornery all week. Finally, we decided it wasn't working.

 

I'm just about to lose my mind.

[Parrothead]

And, I'm going to hate how selfish this next part is going to sound...but when he calls for four hours after bedtime...I really resent the missed time with my husband. He has a hugely demanding work and school schedule. Some weeks he doesn't get a day off at all. And in those few precious hours before bedtime, we need that time to talk. I love being home with my son and all that jazz...but I NEED my husband time. And school is starting again soon for my husband and I will be seeing even less of him soon. I know that sounds greedy. But I love my husband and when we have devoted an already 15 straight hours of time to our son, we want *us* time, too.

 

You'll have to get creative. As much as you need your dh time, your ds needs.... something from you. I would think about date night with dh. Or you can make some time at home when your ds is otherwise occupied. You might have to sneak teA time in here and there or send ds to his little friend's house or over to grandma's.

[Parrothead]

See? I knew I missed something on my list. Yeah, I tried. 6 nights in a row. And it was bad news. I slept worse than I did normally. Deacon would wake up and want to play. And, my husband and I hated not be next to one another. The lack of intimacy killed us. We both were ornery all week. Finally, we decided it wasn't working.

 

I'm just about to lose my mind.

Retraining takes longer than a week.

 

I don't have anything else to offer. Dh has always worked shifts so for us intimacy isn't tied up in sleeping next to each other. Six months ago we actually went to separate bedrooms so we could each (me, it was all about me and my sleep) sleep better.

[july19]

You'll have to get creative. As much as you need your dh time, your ds needs.... something from you. I would think about date night with dh. Or you can make some time at home when your ds is otherwise occupied. You might have to sneak teA time in here and there or send ds to his little friend's house or over to grandma's.

 

Ohhh man. I just meant getting a breather to talk to one another. Talk about his projects at work. Talk about Deacon's schooling. It's been so long since we've brewed teA I'm not even sure we remember how. And I tell ya - That just ain't right for a woman in her late 20's! But with Deacon being up past our bedtime...we just can't. We're already awake past the time we should be, and by that point, we're too tired to fill the pot to ready it for brewing.

[july19]

Retraining takes longer than a week.

 

I don't have anything else to offer. Dh has always worked shifts so for us intimacy isn't tied up in sleeping next to each other. Six months ago we actually went to separate bedrooms so we could each (me, it was all about me and my sleep) sleep better.

 

Co-sleeping has never really been a big draw to me. I'm not against it - I know it works for thousands of families. But for us, I don't want him to sleep better because my husband and I are next to him. I want him sleeping better because we have found the solution to whatever he's lacking. Plus, he didn't really like me next to him all night anyhow. He has a twin sized bed and he sweats bullets even when he sleeps with just a pair of shorts on and a fan on him. On the morning of the 7th day, he demanded I get out of his bed because he needed a shower first thing that morning :lol:

[Lisa in Jax]

Have you tried melatonin? My son was very, very similar -- up, calling out for 2+ hours after bedtime, regardless of tiredness/activity. We removed gluten and casein, don't allow tv during the week, changed his bedtime (earlier, later, etc.), tried epsom salts baths, etc.

 

He woke in the middle of the night, or if he slept past 3-4 a.m, at the crack of dawn, and began making noise, which woke everyone *else.* He was a BEAR during the day, too.

 

Melatonin solved the problem. 30 minutes after he took it, he was OUT, for 8-10 hours.

 

Have you considered Melatonin?

 

Lisa

[linguistmama]

Have you tried melatonin? My son was very, very similar -- up, calling out for 2+ hours after bedtime, regardless of tiredness/activity. We removed gluten and casein, don't allow tv during the week, changed his bedtime (earlier, later, etc.), tried epsom salts baths, etc.

 

He woke in the middle of the night, or if he slept past 3-4 a.m, at the crack of dawn, and began making noise, which woke everyone *else.* He was a BEAR during the day, too.

 

Melatonin solved the problem. 30 minutes after he took it, he was OUT, for 8-10 hours.

 

Have you considered Melatonin?

 

Lisa

 

We're also having sleep issues with my 6yo. Do you use melatonin every night and what dose? 1 mg at bedtime works wonders for my dd, but I rarely use it since I'm not sure about long term use and her sleep issues are not as extreme as the op's.

 

OP I have a friend with boy who has some similar issues and melatonin has been a lifesaver for her. I would look into it. Hugs!

Edited August 1, 2011 by linguistmama

[Rosie_0801]

You could try getting him evaluated by a chiropractor. If their neck is out, it messes up their sleep schedule.

 

Rosie

[Pixjen]

Did we give birth to the same child?! Your little guy sounds almost EXACTLY like my 7yo.

 

The main difference is that mine sleeps through the night (mostly) once he finally falls asleep. Except that get gets up in the middle of the night and crawls into bed with us. I've tried everything you've listed, and then some, to try and get him to sleep. But no matter what we do, he doesn't fall asleep until 10:30 or 11p every night. Oh...and he will find excuses to come down the hallway every 5 minutes, or will just run to the living room because he doesn't want to be in bed.

 

And I *totally* hear you about not getting time with your husband. I'm lucky if I get to spend an hour alone with mine during a month's time! My hubby goes to bed at 10p, and DS stays up later than that every night.

 

I hope we can find a solution soon, before we both end up in the Home for the Bewildered and Exhausted. :D

Edited August 2, 2011 by photojenic

[stripe]

Reading material in bed or books on tape/cd?

[T'smom]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

No advice, but I FEEL for you. I have an almost 4 year old that is the exact. same. way.

[EKS]

I think I would switch the focus away from sleep and to behavior. I would set two rules: (1) he must be ready for bed in his room at whatever time you specify and (2) he may not bother you for any reason. He can do whatever he wants to in there (and I would be sure it is well childproofed), but he must be quiet.

[BriannaG]

I am so sorry and I hear you...I have an almost 3 year old son that is similar. He's had problems since birth and nothing upon nothing has worked. He's finally stopped screaming for hours and hours every night.

 

At the advice of a mentor who had a genuis son with sensory issues who also didn't sleep as a child, I've been working with him to play quietly and stay in bed....6 months later he's much better. I also know he needs less sleep, is a night owl, and I keep repeating to myself that by the time he's a teen he won't want me to hold and rock him to sleep and he'll probably sleep all the time! It doesn't really help anymore - lol!

 

We're currently using Hylands Calms Forte with him to try and get him to just relax physically so he can go to sleep. We'll be trying the Melatonin here soon at a low dose. He seems to have two big problems, he can't shut his mind off, and it's like is body is wired to physically fight sleep (and yes, I know its what they do when they're overtired, this has been from birth on)...I've watched the process so much with him. Of course, he's got almost 3 years of not enough sleep, and nothing has ever shown up to be wrong medically either.

 

Oh, those two hour stretches are the worst! I hate it when he's doing those!!!! His max is 6 hours at a time and that has been a fight for almost 2 years. I can tell you how many days he's slept longer than 7 hours - exactly one and he slept for 12 hours...I kept checking on him to make sure he was still alive.

 

I'm stuck with it though, since apparently DH was extremely similar as a child. He can remember being up till 2 am as a child. He falls asleep in under 5 minutes most nights now as an adult. It so is not a good place to be and I struggle to recall things so much now. Whether I survive is another story...so I'll join you ladies in the House of the Bewildered and Exhausted.

 

Keep hanging in there, maybe you'll find some other ideas to try out with your son. I know just reading that other ladies have similar children, helps me hold on a little more.

[T'smom]

Those of you who give your kids melatonin......how much do you give them? Is it a liquid form or tablet? Where do you buy it?

[Anne]

I think I would switch the focus away from sleep and to behavior. I would set two rules: (1) he must be ready for bed in his room at whatever time you specify and (2) he may not bother you for any reason. He can do whatever he wants to in there (and I would be sure it is well childproofed), but he must be quiet.

 

:iagree: :iagree: I would also look into the melatonin and chiropractor ideas..

 

Anne

[melissad2]

Have you tried eliminating food dyes especially red #40? Red#40 makes my son completely out of control! And just because it isn't red or orange or purple doesn't mean it isn't in there either you have to read the labels.

[LittleIzumi]

Have you tried melatonin? My son was very, very similar -- up, calling out for 2+ hours after bedtime, regardless of tiredness/activity. We removed gluten and casein, don't allow tv during the week, changed his bedtime (earlier, later, etc.), tried epsom salts baths, etc.

 

He woke in the middle of the night, or if he slept past 3-4 a.m, at the crack of dawn, and began making noise, which woke everyone *else.* He was a BEAR during the day, too.

 

Melatonin solved the problem. 30 minutes after he took it, he was OUT, for 8-10 hours.

 

Have you considered Melatonin?

 

Lisa

 

We're also having sleep issues with my 6yo. Do you use melatonin every night and what dose? 1 mg at bedtime works wonders for my dd, but I rarely use it since I'm not sure about long term use and her sleep issues are not as extreme as the op's.

 

OP I have a friend with boy who has some similar issues and melatonin has been a lifesaver for her. I would look into it. Hugs!

 

Dd is also 5, and she took about .5 mg of melatonin the other night (she usually stays up for hours after bedtime, playing or drawing in her room but awaaaaaaaake). She crashed, woke up once to use the bathroom, and slept the rest of the night. She was in the BEST mood the entire next day. I'm tempted to use it on her bad nights now. Calms Forte doesn't really do anything for her (although it helps her little sister).

[Joyofsixreboot]

This was my son until he had his tonsils and adenoids removed. The kid couldn't breathe. Consider apnea or a physical cause.

[Lisa in Jax]

We're also having sleep issues with my 6yo. Do you use melatonin every night and what dose? 1 mg at bedtime works wonders for my dd, but I rarely use it since I'm not sure about long term use and her sleep issues are not as extreme as the op's.

 

 

We used 3 mg/nightly for several months (for a 75lb child), with our pediatrician's blessing. After a few months, we weaned down do 2mg, then a couple of months later, 1 mg. After a few more months, we tried weaning off altogether, and he did well, so we stopped giving it nightly. Now, he only asks to take it about once a month.

 

IMHO, melatonin gets a bad rap without deserving it. If I remember correctly, it has some very positive effects beyond sleep, and few negative effects for most people.

 

HIH,

 

Lisa

[jelbe5]

We give our autistic son 3mg of melatonin every night. He is 13 and is a big boy. He falls asleep within a half hour after the dose. He is my child who requires the least amount of sleep. Melatonin comes in other lower doses. My son is able to swallow pills.

[linguistmama]

I've given my 6yo 1mg in the past. It's looks like we may need to use it on a more regular basis so I will be trying half of that to see if it works. I buy ours at the health food store. It's this one. It tastes like peppermint and is sublingual as dd doesn't swallow pills.

[linguistmama]

We used 3 mg/nightly for several months (for a 75lb child), with our pediatrician's blessing. After a few months, we weaned down do 2mg, then a couple of months later, 1 mg. After a few more months, we tried weaning off altogether, and he did well, so we stopped giving it nightly. Now, he only asks to take it about once a month.

 

IMHO, melatonin gets a bad rap without deserving it. If I remember correctly, it has some very positive effects beyond sleep, and few negative effects for most people.

 

HIH,

 

Lisa

 

Our doc also recommended it for long term use. Melatonin is part of the serotonin cycle so it sometimes helps out with mood.

[july19]

I have never heard of Melatonin, but I am doing my research now!

 

And I am relieved to hear that we aren't alone. Thank you for the advice and other ideas. Tonight, surprisingly, he has been pretty quiet. I can still hear him in there singing and talking, but he hasn't really been asking us for anything. I hope he falls to sleep a little earlier...I'm so worried about my boy.

 

And, with that, I'm going to get off here and cuddle with my husband. =)

[Pixjen]

This was my son until he had his tonsils and adenoids removed. The kid couldn't breathe. Consider apnea or a physical cause.

 

My 7yo had terrible sleep apnea! He had his T&A surgery about two months ago, and while he is sleeping better WHEN he falls asleep....he's not falling sleep any faster.

 

I can't do books on tape for him, because he'll stay awake for the entire 80 mins of the CD and ask for the next disk. We do have Sweet Dreams and Good Night by Jim Weiss...hoping they would help lull him to sleep. Nope.

 

I wouldn't mind sitting with him until he fell asleep, except he doesn't go to sleep for 2-3 hours even with us in bed with him. Calms Forte does nothing to help him relax, neither does warm milk & honey.

 

When he had his T&A surgery they gave him three meds at once, any one of which would normally knock a person out....but not him. He was awake until after midnight that night, even with them pumping him full of pain meds ever few hours. (He had to stay overnight because of the apnea.)

 

I think I'll talk with our family dr. about the melatonin.

[LibraryLover]

You'll have to get creative. As much as you need your dh time, your ds needs.... something from you. I would think about date night with dh. Or you can make some time at home when your ds is otherwise occupied. You might have to sneak teA time in here and there or send ds to his little friend's house or over to grandma's.

 

 

I found it always made us far, far more creative. :) :auto:

 

Read the kid to sleep. Just lay there as long as it takes...he needs something. Your presence is probably goi9ng to be far more effective than sleep aids, 'natural' or otherwise.

 

Unless you think there is something wrong. If you do, I would ask my pedi for neuro referral work- up.

 

Ime, 5 years olds can be very worried creatures. It's best and quickest to suck it up and meet the need.

 

Have sex while the kid is at Grannie's or watching Bill Nye. ;) There are lots of Bill Nye vids. ;)

 

My 12 year old is in my bed watching a movie on my iPad. There is not a thing wrong with her, except she doesn't need the sort of sleep other people do. She is smart and funny...and wonderful. We'll scoot her out when we go to bed. It's so not any kind of issue.

Edited August 2, 2011 by LibraryLover

[black_midori]

I've never given my kids melatonin (they sleep fine!) - but I take it myself every night!! I'm a terrible sleeper :) I've really done much much better since I started taking it - a year or so ago, I think??.

 

The only thing I saw in your posts that I haven't seen commentary on is you mentioning how he sweats bullets even with a fan. Can you leave the AC on super-high for awhile and see if cooling down with AC & fan helps?? Just a thought - I also sleep with a fan on, both because I need white noise AND because I get sweaty sticky hot & absolutely can.not.sleep unless it cools down some. I have the AC set to come on often during the night just to avoid this, even with the fan on (even with melatonin, I'll wake up if I get too hot).

 

It doesn't help that I sleep next to a wonderful man who uses a comforter even if it is over 100 degrees out!! <G> He knows better than to try and cuddle after I've hit "sleep mode", I'm afraid - he's like a space heater & I just can't take it!! :)

[Rosie_0801]

Our doc also recommended it for long term use. Melatonin is part of the serotonin cycle so it sometimes helps out with mood.

I've read that serotonin converts to melatonin at the end of the day. There's more to it than that?

OP, If anxiety is an issue, try putting majorum essential oil on his pillow. Both sides, so if he turns over, he can still smell it. Take him shopping with you so he can try it, because if he hates the smell, it won't work.

 

Rosie

[Mrs Mungo]

More outdoor exercise.

[Tap]

DD4 has been on a prescription med for sleep for almost a year. It is an old anti-depressant called trazodone prescribed and monitored by her psychiatrist . She takes 1/2 a tablet at bedtime (she is a 60lb 4yo) and it changed all of our lives. She used to go to bed fine but wake up several times a night. She would wake up completely, walk around the house and then make herself a new bed somewhere (usually on the floor near where I was sleeping) and then go back to sleep. She would be awake 3-4 times a night.

 

Getting a good nights sleep makes a HUGE difference in her behaviors during the day. I never realized how much her being awake at night affected her! If she misses her med, we all pay for it the next day!

 

We also think that the slight anti-depressant qualities are beneficial for her. It isn't commonly used for that purpose any more in modern psychiatry, as there are much better meds that don't cause the drowsiness of trazodone, but since the drowsiness is what we are looking for....we are happy with the med.

[fiddledeedee]

My 5 year old had sleep issues from birth. He had tubes put in his ears at 4 months old, I thought after that I'd finally get to sleep....I didn't. I'd hear people complain about having to get up 2 or 3 times a night and want to slap them (sleep deprivation made me an angry person!), I woke up probably 15-30 times a night, and he slept with me. He wouldn't sleep alone. He'd shake and scream if we put him in the crib, for hours. I finally just took it down.

When we were in for his 2 year old well check I told the doctor I was about to die with no sleep for 2 years! He told me to put him on melatonin. It does come in liquid form. He used to take about .5mg now he takes 1 mg. He was on it several times a week at first, then maybe 3x, and now it's only rarely. I swear it saved my life and sanity!

 

He sleeps between 9-11 hours a night now, no naps, usually it's about 10 hours a night. He is a night owl, and won't go to bed before 10. It's usually about 10:30 when we can get him down. In the past if we tried to put him down early like most kids, say 8 o'clock, if he even did go to sleep, he'd wake up at like 11 pm, then stay up til 1 or 2. It's not worth it, we just let him stay up.

 

It's really hard to have a kid with poor sleep habits, my daughter was a great sleeper, my son a horrible sleeper, I did nothing different. Kids come with different needs.

 

Good luck, I hope if you try melatonin, that it changes your life!! :D

[Already Gone]

Forgive me if these have already been mentioned. I have the attention span of a flea these days.

 

 

 

• You might look into some Waldorf thinking on this--in a nutshell, what most folks would consider a very early bedtime (think in bed by 7:30). We're not Waldorf-y here, but I've found that a good strategy for both the amount of kid sleep and the level of parental sanity. Many people think that if kids go to bed earlier, they'll wake up earlier as well, but we have not found that to be the case here.
  
• Think perhaps about using natural light to encourage more appropriate circadian rhythms? So, for instance, going outside very early in the morning, as close to dawn as possible, even for five minutes or so, and then perhaps a little time outside right before the bedtime ritual. I am beginning to think that the key to "outside activity" for kids is the "outside" part, not the "activity" part. My usually fairly frenetic son calms down immediately outside and does not appear to get any hijinks or energy out, but the overall effect on both his sleep and waking behavior is nonetheless positive. If I understand correctly, these rhythms, which are tied to serotonin and melatonin levels, are set by natural light, not filtered through glass, so actually going outside is key.
  
• We had problems with popping up as well for sometime. We emphasized not talking to us--so if he gets up to go to the bathroom, we don't want to hear about it--and had a series of consequences for infractions. He's allowed to look at books for a while, but not to socialize, and that's made a great difference. For us, in other words, we could only do so much to set the stage; in the end it came down to discipline.
  

 

[Guest damlin72]

Okay, fine. He DOES indeed sleep. But he doesn't sleep very much. And, I think it's starting to take a toll on my insanity. And grammar. Let me first explain that from birth, Deacon has never ever slept well. So this is nothing new. But lately, it's actually getting worse.....and I didn't think it could!

 

So here's the deal. We have tried everything. Everything. I don't mean "everything except these list of things". I mean everything. In no particular order:

 

-New bed sheets.

-New night lights.

-No night light.

-Eliminate naps.

-Put naps back in.

-Took them out again.....it's much worse with naps.

-Warm (soy) milk.

-Eliminate TV & other electronics two hours before bedtime.

-Extra stories at night.

-Singing softly.

-Extra cuddle time.

-Let him "yell it out" to realize that we won't always cave.

-Sleep study to rule out sleep apnea.

-Eliminated added sugar out of his diet completely.

-Rearranged his room.

-New stuffed animal for "protection".

-Ensure he's kept active during the day (I swear this makes it worse, too...more on that in a minute).

-Counseling with a family friend who is a child therapist to make sure it isn't anxiety or nightmares.

-Warm showers and soothing lotions.

-Briefly tinkering with a different routine and tried switching up the order of things.

-White noise machine (which he definitely prefers to have on, but didn't help with sleeping more!)

-So much more that I can't remember because I'm too tired...I will probably edit this as the day goes on because I know I am definitely missing things on this list.

 

 

We have a rigid, consistent routine. Every night, we start pajamas and teeth brushing at 8:10, in bed with stories by 8:20, done by 8:50. And yet, he's still up at 10:30/11:00, 11:30. Most nights, he calls for us the entire time! For stuff like an extra drink of water, needs to pee for the 5th time, wants his stuffed animals a certain exact way, wants his door open more, wants his door closed more, etc. Some nights, he calls for us for an hour and then will quiet down....but is still awake singing to himself or his stuffed animals. Then, he's up again at 2 am. He needs more water. Up again at 4. Needs to pee again (which we keep telling him he doesn't need to call us for, he can go alone...but he says he's scared to be up in the middle of the night without one of us up, too...which makes me feel bad...so I get up with him because I hate the thought of him being scared =( ). Then he's up for the day at 5:45/6:00 am! Day after day after day after day.

 

He's in a loving, safe home. It's impeccably clean at all times. We eat a pretty good diet with lots of organic foods and lots of fruits and veggies. We can't have lactose or gluten in our diet and he's been tested for any other allergies, asthma, GERD, and other ailments that could be causing this and everything has come back normal. Our pediatrician is under the belief that when a tired child in a dark, quiet room isn't sleeping, it very well could be medical. But we haven't found anything yet! Deacon isn't taking cat naps in the car, he has lots of quiet down activities in the evening. We often read together at night to signal a "let down" to start the bedtime routine. He isn't jealous of another sibling because he doesn't have any (I'm not even pregnant) and there's been no big changes in his life (that he's aware of, at least).

 

And, to be honest, it wouldn't be so horrible if he was still a happy, agreeable kid during the day. And sometimes, he still is. But man...some days, he's so exhausted by 3pm that my sweet little guy has been taken over by a demon! He's a completely different kid. He gets so angry he pounds his fists on his thighs, he screams and kicks, he throws toys. He whines so much about every. single. thing. And whining is just something that I can't stand. But it's like he's bipolar...I just don't understand. I'm scared and worried for my little guy. He's such an amazingly sweet kid, full of empathy, selflessness, and kindness....until he gets tired. And it's seriously like something else is taking over his little body. And man - it happens SO FAST. No warning. It's like someone flipped a switch. He's always disciplined accordingly, but I feel bad disciplining him when he's only acting like this because he's exhausted. And, luckily, the episodes are pretty short lived and he's usually back to my jovial sweet little guy within the hour. But....uuugh.

 

And on these days, his OCD tenancies are in the EXTREME. Every food item has to be perfect and exactly how HE wanted it in his head (man, I have some horror stories involving this....yikes). We have to play just right with his toys and heaven forbid we do something that he doesn't want, the demon side comes forth even worse. Everything all day has to just be "perfect" and we're supposed to like...read his mind. It's so tiring.

 

And here's another frustrating thing. I mentioned the "keep active" part above? I swear to you it makes it worse. Take this past Saturday and Sunday. On Saturday, we schooled all morning. Around noon, we went hiking. Beautiful day, not too hot, gorgeous. 4 hour hike through hilly (but safe!) terrain. Afterwards, we came home and my husband and son went back outside to ride bikes and play baseball and basketball in the yard for another 2 hours. Came in, ate a decent but not too heavy meal of turkey and veggie pinwheels and homemade organic sugar-free applesauce. After showers we ended the day with a quiet game of Sequence. My son slept less than FOUR hours TOTAL. But yesterday? We had a relaxed day. Two craft projects. Not a lot of school work, just practicing phonics. We cuddled up with a couple movies in the afternoon. My son slept almost SEVEN. What the frank?? And if we do multiple days of quiet stuff, he still sleeps better. Multiple days of lots of activities (want to hear my Disney horror story!?) and sports and hiking and geocaching and whatnot, he still doesn't sleep. :banghead:

 

And, I'm going to hate how selfish this next part is going to sound...but when he calls for four hours after bedtime...I really resent the missed time with my husband. He has a hugely demanding work and school schedule. Some weeks he doesn't get a day off at all. And in those few precious hours before bedtime, we need that time to talk. I love being home with my son and all that jazz...but I NEED my husband time. And school is starting again soon for my husband and I will be seeing even less of him soon. I know that sounds greedy. But I love my husband and when we have devoted an already 15 straight hours of time to our son, we want *us* time, too.

 

And, to finalize this already horribly long post (if you're still reading this by this point, I owe you a cookie), Deacons calling and being awake for hours past bedtime is cutting into OUR sleeping, too. Not only the getting up several times a night thing, but also because ideally, we'd be asleep by 10/10:30 pm. My husband and I get up at 5 am so he can make it to work by 6 am. We're averaging about 3 hours a night...and that's just not enough. My husband is still battling a mystery illness and really really really needs every ounce of sleep he can get. I'm worried about all three of us, at this point.

 

Any suggestions? Or any one experiencing similar? Or have you survived something similar?

 

[Guest damlin72]

I just found this today, and it's been a long time since you posted this, but have you had any success at all??? This is like reading about my 5 year old daughter, and I am at my wits end..Please help if you have figured anything out!

[awisha.]

HOLY RESURRECTED THREAD BATMAN!!