How did I end up with such a rude child?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Well, he's still alive. I didn't stone him to death. I don't spank anymore, so when something like that happens, he gets restricted from something. In this case, it was the Wii and any computer games.

 

John took Nathan up to visit Aaron at OCS today, so Ben and I had the day alone. We organized the play room some, then he built Bionicles. We went out to dinner (we never do anything like that), got popcorn at the grocery store, and came home and played seceral board games together. I then made popcorn, and he watched Netflix. We snuggled a lot.

 

We talked about last night. He says he doesn't mean the things that come out of his mouth -- that he feels so frustrated and angry. He said sometimes he feels I'm too busy to spend time with him.

 

It is amazing how smooth things are when it's only one of them.

 

It sounds like you had a lovely day with him.:)

 

You know, the more I think about this, my son's weakness in anger is physically lashing out. He might cry and yell while he does it but he is mostly non-verbal about it. Your son's weakness in anger (at least from what you said here) is verbally lashing out.

 

I had to work with my son on finding ways to channel his anger in a physically appropriate way. It sounds like you'll have to work on ways to channel his anger in a more verbally appropriate way - perhaps articulating "I feel angry right now." or not allowing himself to talk until he feels like he's under control.

 

I will reiterate what I said though about trying to catch it right at the start of his frustration. You might have him come and tell you when he's feeling ignored or ask if he can schedule some special time.

[ktgrok]

Could he have Aspergers Syndrome? The only traits my son really showed when younger were being argumentative to the point of absurdity, and rudeness, like there was no filter on his mouth. It turned out it was Asperger's not just being a jerk.

[Nestof3]

I've got one of those myself. Snuggly, creative, smart, loving, etc. but just difficult. Any little thing can set him off (especially if tired, hungry, etc.). Luckily, we have seen a lot of improvement lately (especially as far as getting along with other children is concerned) so there is hope.

 

 

 

He has not been sleeping or eating well lately. I don't say that to excuse him. I say that because I just found out that he was awake most of the night the night before last (I found him lying on the couch when I came out). He must have been tired last night, because it usually takes him over an hour to fall asleep, but he was asleep in then minutes last night. Even Nathan has had trouble sleeping lately (he was awake at 3 am).

 

I've had a hard time getting Ben to eat. He's rarely hungry until after lunch time. I try all sorts of things. He doesn't get junk food instead. But, he just won't eat.

[Nestof3]

I have one like that. He's 10, nearly 11. Not sure if you're looking for a book recommendation, but one book that really hit the nail on the head and helped me understand his personality was The Explosive Child by Ross W. Greene. Some kids just don't handle frustration well, and mine has been like this since birth. I've come to accept the fact that it's him, not me (since my other two children are NOT like this), but I also wish for him that he could enjoy life more. He is loving and a thinker as others have mentioned, but too often he's just plain grumpy!

 

Hang in there . . .

 

Barbie

 

Yes, I have read that and the Raising Your Spirited Child book. Both of my younger boys have some issues (Nathan is more Aspie; Ben has sensory issues, OCD issues, and issues with changing gears). I tried parenting him like I parented our eldest, and it was a nightmare. I remember when he was 2.5, he would rock himself back and forth fiercely (he couldn't talk until he was 3) when he was upset. I felt like I was living in the twilight zone.

 

Sometimes, when he says the wrong thing or messes up (even when I tell him it's okay, let's move on and do better), he says "I'm always doing something wrong. I cannot go a day without ruining it." He's just sort of all over the place with his emotions.

 

He melts down completely and cries so easily over little things sometimes. He has learned to say "I am overwhelmed" or "frustrated" when he is feeling this way. I've tried coaching him in saying how he feels instead of calling people names. He's not always successful.

[Nestof3]

:grouphug: I'm sorry, mama. But remember this, he hasn't "ended up" rude; he's not done cooking yet. You're not failing him. The fact that you are bothered enough to post about how it hurts you demonstrates that you care.

 

Thanks!

[Nestof3]

This is just learning appropriate emotional control. It is harder when the child is tired. I had one that did this, so I told him that he needed to learn to identify when he was getting annoyed and stop the activity. If not, he would have the consequence of not doing that activity for a week. It took two weeks of consequences for him to take me seriously. He was 13 before he could lose a strategy game graciously and that's only games where he thinks he has a 90% chance of winning. He was 11 before he could play a party game such as Crazy Eights and not care about winning...it took a lot of help from his friends to get him to realize that some games are about fun. That got him to realize he could stop when it wasn't fun and switch to something else.

 

Yes, game time is usually a nightmare because he takes it so seriously. Tonight, he got discouraged because I won a game "Ten Speed." It's hard because I am quicker at adding #s up to make ten. I just reminded him that I didn't care about the winning. I wasn't playing the game with him because I wanted to win; I was playing because I wanted to be with him. We then moved on to another game. We just played game after game, and I tried to show him it was all about being together.

[Nestof3]

This doesn't sound like rudeness, exactly, to me. It sounds more like impulse control, temper control and that he doesn't know how to manage his emotions. My son had this issue in the past (my oldest) and we used this book for a while, although my guess is that it's too young for your son. What helped with my son is trying very, very hard to not take it personally (hard to do!) and realize that it was something he needed help with, not punishment. We've worked on breathing techniques, learning to walk away when he feels his blood beginning to boil, and journaling/drawing his anger. My younger brother was similar to him growing up, and I remember vividly my mom "clamping down" on his behavior: punishing, time outs, etc and how much that DIDN'T work-it just made him angrier and angrier, and by the time he was a teen he was distant and angry. (He's a wonderful adult now, though!)

 

My son, who is now 9, is much better at controlling his temper. He's very much allowed to express himself, but he's learning not to do it in a hurtful way.

 

Good luck.

 

ETA: Reading some of the other responses makes me want to add something. Punishment doesn't really work for my son when he's acting like this. It's like he's being punished for not knowing or having the tools to control himself. That doesn't seem right. It can be a teaching moment, if you maintain your cool (not always easy).

 

I agree 100% with everything you have said. Things are much better around here after I read a book like Raising Your Spirited Child. I go through seasons where I focus on coaching him and being proactive. I've been incredibly busy lately trying to organize the house, get ready for a yard sale and get lessons ready for the upcoming year. Oh, and I host a graduation party for our eldest in two weeks (from Officers Candidates School). When I'm on my game, my goal is to help him learn how to handle his emotions. Once he is able to calm himself, he is completely back to normal again. If you try to "scold" or rebuke/correct him in the middle of a meltdown, it only gets worse.

 

I believe when he used to rock himself back and forth, he was attempting to calm himself. I learned when crisis hit, to hold him and be with him until he was calm. Then we were able to deal with whatever was overwhelming him. Losing at a video game is very overwhelming for him, so it may be that some of these are just too much for him right now.

[Nestof3]

I've read all responses, and thank you so much. I am just too tired right now to respond to all of them. Hopefully, I will have time to revisit tomorrow.

[5LittleMonkeys]

Dawn,

 

A lot of what you describe are the some of the same things I've gone through\am going through with dd12. We have to focus on managing these kiddos more than we do our others. Sometimes life happens and we get distracted from that focus. You know how to handle your little guy and you recognize that you need to get your focus back. Your doing a wonderful job!:grouphug:

[calandalsmom]

Dawn,

 

A lot of what you describe are the some of the same things I've gone through\am going through with dd12. We have to focus on managing these kiddos more than we do our others. Sometimes life happens and we get distracted from that focus. You know how to handle your little guy and you recognize that you need to get your focus back. Your doing a wonderful job!:grouphug:

 

Managing these kids is a mistake. Rather one must give them the time they need to learn to manage themselves. Our job as parents is not to manage or manipulate but to facilitate and exemplify the behaviors we want to see become habit.

 

 

It's the latter which is so hard

[lorrainejmc]

I haven't read all the replies but I have a 5yr old who causes me this sort of concern for the future. He is the youngest, adorable but sweetly manipulative. He never wants to go to bed, never wants what for dinner, would argue for the sake of it, you get the picture. He cries A LOT if he doesn't get his way. A few days ago we were at a cycle trail in a forest park. Dh was taking a video and I remember him saying to ds to watch out for another boy. There was a minor collision but no one was hurt and that was the end of it.......

 

Or so we thought.

 

The video was left running but we weren't paying close attention as we have 2 other kids to look out for. It was only when we played it back at home that we saw the aftermath. He was saying in an angry tone "why did you do that? you kicked my bike, you made me fall" and so on and so on.... The poor boy, who was about 10, was asking if he was OK, then he just gave up and ignored him.

 

I was stunned. There have been occasions in the past were I was led to believe that he had been "wronged" by someone, at homeschool group or at the park, but now I can't trust this child's word. I already have to watch him closely around my ds7 who has delays, as he would try to make a fool out of him, given the chance.

 

Sigh.....

[Wyndie]

:lurk5:

[gardenmom5]

He is by far the hardest of the three. I just cannot believe how uncaring he can be toward us, his parents. The second things don't go his way, he lashes out. He has called both his dad and me a jerk today. I cannot even imagine my other boys saying anything like that. He argues and questions things constantly. I am totally worn out from it. Thanks for listening.

 

How old is he?

 

when 1ds (he's now 22) was very small, he used to yell "you're not my mom" whenever he didn't get what he wanted. I'm grateful it was never in a store. I tried all the pop-pschy "wisdom" (NOT) of, "I'm sorry you're angry at mommy", "I still love you", blah, blah, blah.

 

Finally, one day I just said "fine. I'm not your mom. I don't have to do __insert list of his favorite things I do for him__ for you anymore." and went back to what I was doing. he just stared at me for at least 30 minutes. then, in a little voice came and asked for a drink. "no, I'm not you're mom, and I won't be until you apologize". He promptly apologized, and NEVER yelled at me like that again.

 

I now know some of his inappropriate responses were based in his SPD - which I didn't know about then. grrr.

[calandalsmom]

Very wise. Hold on to that phrase 'too much'.

 

The school psych started out with giving my son an escape hatch..if he felt emotions escaping or sensory overload happening (i.e. 'too much'), he had a safe place to go to to regain control. We brought this in to the home, and it was very good in helping ds to have calm days by controlling his sensory load. The difficulty I had is that my inlaws didn't raise their children to respect each other or have public/private spaces in the home, so if my son went to find peace and quiet in his bedroom and they were visiting, they'd follow him and get in his face with loud talking. I quit having them over.

 

The next step after the safe place is keeping in touch with the emotions enough to recognize when they are rising and about to get out in the wrong way and having coping strategies and acceptable ways to express the emotions.

 

You asked 'why' in another post...neurological is the answer. Some kids are made more sensitive than others and it takes longer to integrate everything their brains are doing and get the filters in place that they need. They end up compassionate, but may need help in understanding the world so they don't end up with existential depression.

 

good stuff here.

[calandalsmom]

I haven't read all the replies but I have a 5yr old who causes me this sort of concern for the future. He is the youngest, adorable but sweetly manipulative. He never wants to go to bed, never wants what for dinner, would argue for the sake of it, you get the picture. He cries A LOT if he doesn't get his way. A few days ago we were at a cycle trail in a forest park. Dh was taking a video and I remember him saying to ds to watch out for another boy. There was a minor collision but no one was hurt and that was the end of it.......

 

Or so we thought.

 

The video was left running but we weren't paying close attention as we have 2 other kids to look out for. It was only when we played it back at home that we saw the aftermath. He was saying in an angry tone "why did you do that? you kicked my bike, you made me fall" and so on and so on.... The poor boy, who was about 10, was asking if he was OK, then he just gave up and ignored him.

 

I was stunned. There have been occasions in the past were I was led to believe that he had been "wronged" by someone, at homeschool group or at the park, but now I can't trust this child's word. I already have to watch him closely around my ds7 who has delays, as he would try to make a fool out of him, given the chance.

 

Sigh.....

 

You may be ascribing motive here incorrectly. I think the way you see your child is concerning. i mean, its possible he is a sociopath at 5 as you clearly believe, but then again if he isnt and you think he is... self fulfilling prophecy???

 

Id get some serious counselling stat for the whole family.

[MelanieM]

I have to respectfully disagree about the bolded. Or maybe it is more of a lack of correct parenting for that particular child. You said yourself you wish your parents had provided more help - hence a lack of parenting.

 

Respectfully, I think you may have missed an important point here. You can be the best parent in the world, and doing all of the right things *for that specific child*, and still not see the fruit of your labours in each and every moment. When you are parenting an explosive child, it's not as easy as just doing XYZ and, poof, no more issues. Sometimes you can spend years setting a foundation so that when the child is in the developmentally appropriate place, they finally get it. Sometimes they just aren't capable of reigning it in, no matter what you do. And that's not any more of an excuse than saying a two year old does typical two year old things because they're two... there's a broad range of 'typical', and for some kids, typical (i.e. natural/instinctive to them) can be pretty ugly.

 

I really think it does a disservice to parents to blame a lack of parenting (or lack of the "right parenting") for a child's behaviour. Sometimes kids are going to do what they're going to do, and as parents we just have to do our best to help navigate through it all. Again, that's not about making excuses; it's about understanding that we need to do our best, trust that our kids are doing their best, and just keep moving forward.

 

Melanie (mother to an angel child, an explosive child, and two as yet to be determined personality-wise)

[calandalsmom]

It will cut a lot of time if a good psych is consulted.

 

This is a tricky business. But essential, really.

[calandalsmom]

Respectfully, I think you may have missed an important point here. You can be the best parent in the world, and doing all of the right things *for that specific child*, and still not see the fruit of your labours in each and every moment. When you are parenting an explosive child, it's not as easy as just doing XYZ and, poof, no more issues. Sometimes you can spend years setting a foundation so that when the child is in the developmentally appropriate place, they finally get it. Sometimes they just aren't capable of reigning it in, no matter what you do. And that's not any more of an excuse than saying a two year old does typical two year old things because they're two... there's a broad range of 'typical', and for some kids, typical (i.e. natural/instinctive to them) can be pretty ugly.

 

I really think it does a disservice to parents to blame a lack of parenting (or lack of the "right parenting") for a child's behaviour. Sometimes kids are going to do what they're going to do, and as parents we just have to do our best to help navigate through it all. Again, that's not about making excuses; it's about understanding that we need to do our best, trust that our kids are doing their best, and just keep moving forward.

 

Melanie (mother to an angel child, an explosive child, and two as yet to be determined personality-wise)

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[lorrainejmc]

You may be ascribing motive here incorrectly. I think the way you see your child is concerning. i mean, its possible he is a sociopath at 5 as you clearly believe, but then again if he isnt and you think he is... self fulfilling prophecy???

 

Id get some serious counselling stat for the whole family.

 

 

Woooah!!!

 

I think you misinterpreted what I mean by concerned for the future. I DO NOT think he is a future sociopath, I am concerned that he may be a handful as a teenager. The way I see my child is concerning? He is 5. If he wasn't able to "sweetly manipulate" I'd be more concerned. Counseling? Are you serious?

 

Good grief, this is weird forum.:leaving:

[Trish]

Excellent resource.

 

Those of you with the "does he get away with it?" nonsense should probably consider whether you have any idea what you are talking about before reponsding to threads like this. Usually the suggestion that its just bc the parent allows this behavior isnt particularly helpful. generally bc you know, that's not really how it works.

 

I'm not talking about meltdowns, I'm talking about backtalk. I was responding to the person whose teen daughter talks disrespectfully.

 

In our house we ask for things to be rephrased or "said nicely."

[lorrainejmc]

You are not kidding with that comment. You are the first person I've 'met' who would tell a five year old to watch out for a ten year old on bikes. ime it's the other way around as most fives can't ride in a straight line for a sustained period, and most tens are being taught to be considerate of the younger ones. I'd be just as ticked off as your five was if the older, more experienced person collided with me and my mom didn't care.

Interesting world, and thanks for sharing your culture.

 

Good GOD, I said minor collision. Both boys stopped on time but bumped wheels and my son dropped his bike. He did not fall. He wrongly accused this boy. My 5yr old has been riding 2 wheels since he was 3 and is very experienced, my husband took the video and told him to watch out, I was with one of my other kids and did not know much about this until I saw the video.

 

You are all a pack here. How dare you judge me like that.

Edited July 31, 2011 by lorrainejmc

[Parrothead]

Respectfully, I think you may have missed an important point here. You can be the best parent in the world, and doing all of the right things *for that specific child*, and still not see the fruit of your labours in each and every moment. When you are parenting an explosive child, it's not as easy as just doing XYZ and, poof, no more issues. Sometimes you can spend years setting a foundation so that when the child is in the developmentally appropriate place, they finally get it. Sometimes they just aren't capable of reigning it in, no matter what you do. And that's not any more of an excuse than saying a two year old does typical two year old things because they're two... there's a broad range of 'typical', and for some kids, typical (i.e. natural/instinctive to them) can be pretty ugly.

 

I really think it does a disservice to parents to blame a lack of parenting (or lack of the "right parenting") for a child's behaviour. Sometimes kids are going to do what they're going to do, and as parents we just have to do our best to help navigate through it all. Again, that's not about making excuses; it's about understanding that we need to do our best, trust that our kids are doing their best, and just keep moving forward.

 

Melanie (mother to an angel child, an explosive child, and two as yet to be determined personality-wise)

I don't know. Maybe. I can't say with certainty that you are absolutely right or for that matter that I am. I can only go with my life experience. In my experience the parents of grown children that have said the same things to me that you have (what I bolded above) are the parents of adults hooked on some kind of drug/alcohol or being sentenced to jail time or on the run.

 

There are going to be as many opinions on what constitutes good parenting as there are parents here. Many styles, many philosophies. To the parent who asks for help/advice it will be like navigating a land mine field to find someone who parents similarly.

 

I know my thoughts and opinions about parenting are not popular here. But I honestly believe that there aren't as many truly "bad" kids as there seems to be in the world. (Not by any means saying that Dawn's young man is a bad kid.) I've my own theory as to how we got to this point. I'll spare you the details. I will say that I do think all children can be reached and taught the appropriate way to function in society. It takes work on the part of the caregiver(s) though. A lot of work. I guess in a nutshell you could say I'm more of a nurture than nature person.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Parrothead

[Ksol]

You are not kidding with that comment. You are the first person I've 'met' who would tell a five year old to watch out for a ten year old on bikes. ime it's the other way around as most fives can't ride in a straight line for a sustained period, and most tens are being taught to be considerate of the younger ones. I'd be just as ticked off as your five was if the older, more experienced person collided with me and my parent didn't care to check out my injuries or the damage to the bike.

Interesting world, and thanks for sharing your culture.

 

 

WOW! I tell my THREE year old ALL THE TIME to watch out for others when we are on the bike trail. How do you think a ten year old gets to be considerate of others when riding? It doesn't magically happen, you train them as soon as they are out there riding or they are a hazard to themselves or others.

[sparrow]

You may be ascribing motive here incorrectly. I think the way you see your child is concerning. i mean, its possible he is a sociopath at 5 as you clearly believe, but then again if he isnt and you think he is... self fulfilling prophecy???

 

Id get some serious counselling stat for the whole family.

 

 

:001_huh:

 

You are not kidding with that comment. You are the first person I've 'met' who would tell a five year old to watch out for a ten year old on bikes. ime it's the other way around as most fives can't ride in a straight line for a sustained period, and most tens are being taught to be considerate of the younger ones. I'd be just as ticked off as your five was if the older, more experienced person collided with me and my parent didn't care to check out my injuries or the damage to the bike.

Interesting world, and thanks for sharing your culture.

 

 

:001_huh:

 

Good GOD, I said minor collision. Both boys stopped on time but bumped wheels and my son dropped his bike. He did not fall. He wrongly accused this boy. My 5yr old has been riding 2 wheels since he was 3 and is very experienced, my husband took the video and told him to watch out, I was with one of my other kids and did not know much about this until I saw the video.

 

You are all a pack here. How dare you judge me like that.

 

 

:grouphug: I'm really not sure why the other posters jumped on you like that. I didn't read anything at all in your post that indicated you thought your son was a sociopath! I just saw that you were worried he had anger/explosive issues and tried to manipulate situations for a positive outcome for himself.

 

I'll chalk it up to the heat? Yikes!:leaving:

[Parrothead]

You are not kidding with that comment. You are the first person I've 'met' who would tell a five year old to watch out for a ten year old on bikes. ime it's the other way around as most fives can't ride in a straight line for a sustained period, and most tens are being taught to be considerate of the younger ones. I'd be just as ticked off as your five was if the older, more experienced person collided with me and my parent didn't care to check out my injuries or the damage to the bike.

Interesting world, and thanks for sharing your culture.

At what point does one teach a child personal responsibility in your culture?

[Upward Journey]

Hopefully you'll find a way to help him recognize and control his temper. I was an angry kid "from birth," with a younger sister who was the complete opposite. I had great parents, but was always.so.angry. It's been hard to retrain myself as a wife and mother. I wish my parents had done more to help me with this as a child. I remember going to counseling for a bit, and wish that would have continued.

 

Just wanted to give some support. Yes, people, some kids really do have an inborn temper/anger issue. It isn't always about a lack of parenting.

 

:iagree:

I was this way as well. One of my 5 is just like me. I have given her more responsibility at an earlier age than the others, and I let her make her own decisions, within reason, as I know that the lack of these two things greatly increased my own tension as a child. Sometimes I just have to tell her to suck it up and deal, because "no, life isn't fair and too bad, you can't have your own way in this," but mostly if I give her her head, she makes good choices. And sometimes what she needs most is for me to sit down with her and take her in my arms. Usually she starts out resistant and then just melts. I wish my own mom had known that that was what I needed.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Upward Journey

[leeannpal]

:iagree:No one can be rude to you unless you allow it - including a child. If he isn't taught appropriate behavior (one way or another) he can't give the behavior you want. Truly this is a learned response. He gets away with it because you allow it. The first time "jerk" came out of his mouth the most dire of consequences should have been handed out.

 

The incident with the Wii - he disrespected you, disrespected the electronic and lied. What happened after he did those things? In my house it would have been the most dire of consequences.

 

It will take more time now, but you can reverse these behaviors. It will take time and effort (lots of effort) because he will balk and he will fight for things to go back to "normal." But you can get a handle on this behavior.

If you don't have a child with this temperament or impulse/frustration control issues, you realy don't know what will and will not work with the child. My dauhgter is very much like the OP's child. Harsh consequences do not work at all with my daughter bcause she lacks the ability to to have self-control and impulse control. Part of this is due to her ADHD. Ordinary parenting tools simply do not work for these kids in many cases.

[leeannpal]

I would calmly and lovingly but firmly say "For that comment son, you will not have this privilege of staying up...when you can act more kindly, you get the privilege back."

 

The minute he calls anyone a jerk...Wii is off limits for a week. There has to be measured consequences...call me mean, but we had respect issues that always seemed to surround Wii...so I sold it on Ebay, all 35 games and the set. It was perhaps unfair to my other two children, but they knew we were doing this to help their brother learn a lesson. It worked, we just absolutely do not tolerate any name calling...or much of any other disrespect...10 years old is enough to know better. Be firm or it will get much worse in 6 years...we always do it out of love and not out of anger..and we show our disappointment for them that we have to take these measures...and to be honest, my children have never called my dh or me a name, our disrespect was more along the lines of not cleaning their room before playing Wii, not finishing homework before playing Wii, not being responsible in other words...that counts as disrespect in our house when we have set rules saying no wii until xyz is done...

 

Maybe I am reaching here, but the OP doesn't sound like she/Dh don't know what to do when her son is rude; she is upset that he gets to that point. I fully understand as my daughter is like that too. When she has a screaming fit, she does lose consequences, etc. And while these consequences take care of the behavior, for the moment, they do not lead to changes overall in DD behavior because she simply cannot control herself well.

 

I know I get very frustrated at parents who assume that my daughter has outbursts because she is allowed to get away with them. No, there are always clear consequences, but it does not stop the behavior the next time, which could be just 30 minutes later. Imagine how you might feel if you were doing "all the right things" according to parenting experts, and yet your child continued to fail to conform to societal norms.

[Parrothead]

If you don't have a child with this temperament or impulse/frustration control issues, you realy don't know what will and will not work with the child. My dauhgter is very much like the OP's child. Harsh consequences do not work at all with my daughter bcause she lacks the ability to to have self-control and impulse control. Part of this is due to her ADHD. Ordinary parenting tools simply do not work for these kids in many cases.

Honestly I don't know what will work with any child other than my own.

 

It may be semantics to you, but I didn't say "harsh." I said "dire" and I do understand that that means different things for different children.

[Parrothead]

Maybe I am reaching here, but the OP doesn't sound like she/Dh don't know what to do when her son is rude; she is upset that he gets to that point. I fully understand as my daughter is like that too. When she has a screaming fit, she does lose consequences, etc. And while these consequences take care of the behavior, for the moment, they do not lead to changes overall in DD behavior because she simply cannot control herself well.

 

I know I get very frustrated at parents who assume that my daughter has outbursts because she is allowed to get away with them. No, there are always clear consequences, but it does not stop the behavior the next time, which could be just 30 minutes later. Imagine how you might feel if you were doing "all the right things" according to parenting experts, and yet your child continued to fail to conform to societal norms.

I ask this in all sincerity, no snark intended. Have you thought about kicking the parenting experts to the curb? I know that is an unpopular idea today. IMO it seems that "they" can't make up their minds from one year to the next on what is the "right" way to raise kids.

 

First it is this method, then that style. Many are counter-intuitive and do more harm than good. As is so often said in homeschooling circles, "no one knows your child better than you."

 

IDK I've just always felt that we didn't have so many screwed up families/kids back before so many experts entered on the scene.

[I.Dup.]

I ask this in all sincerity, no snark intended. Have you thought about kicking the parenting experts to the curb? I know that is an unpopular idea today. IMO it seems that "they" can't make up their minds from one year to the next on what is the "right" way to raise kids.

 

First it is this method, then that style. Many are counter-intuitive and do more harm than good. As is so often said in homeschooling circles, "no one knows your child better than you."

 

IDK I've just always felt that we didn't have so many screwed up families/kids back before so many experts entered on the scene.

 

:iagree: Now it's all about excuses, excuses, excuses. It's so hard to find support in teaching our kids responsibility for their own actions from a young age. A great book about this is "A Family of Value" by John Rosemond. I highly recommend it. :001_smile:

[Parrothead]

:iagree: Now it's all about excuses, excuses, excuses. It's so hard to find support in teaching our kids responsibility for their own actions from a young age. A great book about this is "A Family of Value" by John Rosemond. I highly recommend it. :001_smile:

Oh, the irony! :D

[Jean in Newcastle]

You may be ascribing motive here incorrectly. I think the way you see your child is concerning. i mean, its possible he is a sociopath at 5 as you clearly believe, but then again if he isnt and you think he is... self fulfilling prophecy???

 

Id get some serious counselling stat for the whole family.

 

How did we get such rude board members?

 

This is a message board. The beauty of a message board is that you get the combined wisdom of people of all walks of life and experience. Even when we all share a love of our children and certain values (wanting them to be well adjusted adults) there are going to be differences in how we deal with them. When I ask a question on a board like this I have the smarts to read all the answers and choose the ones that fit me best. Unless someone is advocating something that it truly dangerous (giving needles to babies) I don't see any reason for one person (who is no more an expert at parenting than anyone else here) to call others out as a bad parent.

[I.Dup.]

Oh, the irony! :D

 

What? Have there been discussions about John Rosemond that I missed? It's still early and I'm running on no caffeine at this point....

[I.Dup.]

Oh, HA! You mean because you say turn away from the experts and I suggest a book? :lol: Bahahaha, yeah I guess that was strange. BUT this book IS about turning away from the experts- he is a psychologists that does not advocate modern psychology....and, and....it's just a really good book :D:lol:

[Parrothead]

Oh, HA! You mean because you say turn away from the experts and I suggest a book? :lol: Bahahaha, yeah I guess that was strange. BUT this book IS about turning away from the experts- he is a psychologists that does not advocate modern psychology....and, and....it's just a really good book :D:lol:

Yeah, this. :lol:

[Nestof3]

I don't know. Maybe. I can't say with certainty that you are absolutely right or for that matter that I am. I can only go with my life experience. In my experience the parents of grown children that have said the same things to me that you have (what I bolded above) are the parents of adults hooked on some kind of drug/alcohol or being sentenced to jail time or on the run.

 

There are going to be as many opinions on what constitutes good parenting as there are parents here. Many styles, many philosophies. To the parent who asks for help/advice it will be like navigating a land mine field to find someone who parents similarly.

 

I know my thoughts and opinions about parenting are not popular here. But I honestly believe that there aren't as many truly "bad" kids as there seems to be in the world. (Not by any means saying that Dawn's young man is a bad kid.) I've my own theory as to how we got to this point. I'll spare you the details. I will say that I do think all children can be reached and taught the appropriate way to function in society. It takes work on the part of the caregiver(s) though. A lot of work. I guess in a nutshell you could say I'm more of a nurture than nature person.

 

Just real quick. I have raised a boy from 8 to 21. I have some life experience with this too. I feel like we adequately kept him away from negative influences, taught him character at home, doled out pretty strict consequences, allowed him to explore interest, taught him to be a man of integrity despite what is going on around him, to be honest, hard working, and so on and so forth.

 

I'm not sure, though, that I can say I changed his temperament or made the issues he struggles with go away. He was the one who made excuses, lied, kept the whole truth from coming out, etc. This only ever happened in context of him not wanting to get into trouble.

 

He's also been a procrastinator.

 

I cannot say these things changed because we did something right or that they didn't go way because we did something wrong. Being in OCS, there is no room for excuses, and because he wants to be an officer, I believe he is doing what it takes to get there. If he doesn't really want to get around to a college paper, he is going to wait until the last minute. If he doesn't really want to do his taxes, he is going to wait until the last minute. And you know what? Now that he is an adult, he is more apt to just say, "I didn't want to take care of it," but still often I hear, "I've been so busy -- blah blah blah." I hear lots of adult making excuses for their procrastination. I call customers every month because they're late paying their lawn bill. I wonder how many times these same customers are late paying their mortgage?

 

He told me that he remembers one day realizing that he had to decide to be a man of integrity because it's his responsibility -- not because we've told him to, or because he will get into trouble if he doesn't, and so on.

 

He's quite an incredible guy now, if I do say so myself. I think things we did surely influenced this, but we were never able to make him stop procrastinating, and who knows -- he might still lie to us today if he felt life would be easier without us knowing something.

 

So, I'm going to just keep plodding along. I'm not the kind of person who tries to find some label for my kids so I can make excuses for them, but I know for certain that Ben's struggles are very different than my other two boys. They are more frequent, more frustrating, more off the wall. I'm just trying to figure out how to parent him and sometimes, yes, I just want to fume that I want an easier child.

 

Many things have gotten better. It no longer takes him 20 minutes to put tennis shoes on because "it feels." But, I still see him tugging on clothes through out the day (which frustrates him). It's probably like me -- I get so grumpy when I'm hot. I just want to get away from everyone, so Thanksgiving at my parents is hard for me, because they have the "old people temperature" thing going on in their house, and I'm helping with cooking and cleaning, and I just want to open up all the door and tell everyone to take a walk to get their blood pumping. AGGHHHH!!!!!

 

PS -- These comments aren't directed at you, Parrothead -- your post just seemed like a good place to bounce off of. :D

[I.Dup.]

Just real quick. I have raised a boy from 8 to 21. I have some life experience with this too. I feel like we adequately kept him away from negative influences, taught him character at home, doled out pretty strict consequences, allowed him to explore interest, taught him to be a man of integrity despite what is going on around him, to be honest, hard working, and so on and so forth.

 

I'm not sure, though, that I can say I changed his temperament or made the issues he struggles with go away. He was the one who made excuses, lied, kept the whole truth from coming out, etc. This only ever happened in context of him not wanting to get into trouble.

 

He's also been a procrastinator.

 

I cannot say these things changed because we did something right or that they didn't go way because we did something wrong. Being in OCS, there is no room for excuses, and because he wants to be an officer, I believe he is doing what it takes to get there. If he doesn't really want to get around to a college paper, he is going to wait until the last minute. If he doesn't really want to do his taxes, he is going to wait until the last minute. And you know what? Now that he is an adult, he is more apt to just say, "I didn't want to take care of it," but still often I hear, "I've been so busy -- blah blah blah." I hear lots of adult making excuses for their procrastination. I call customers every month because they're late paying their lawn bill. I wonder how many times these same customers are late paying their mortgage?

 

He told me that he remembers one day realizing that he had to decide to be a man of integrity because it's his responsibility -- not because we've told him to, or because he will get into trouble if he doesn't, and so on.

 

He's quite an incredible guy now, if I do say so myself. I think things we did surely influenced this, but we were never able to make him stop procrastinating, and who knows -- he might still lie to us today if he felt life would be easier without us knowing something.

 

So, I'm going to just keep plodding along. I'm not the kind of person who tries to find some label for my kids so I can make excuses for them, but I know for certain that Ben's struggles are very different than my other two boys. They are more frequent, more frustrating, more off the wall. I'm just trying to figure out how to parent him and sometimes, yes, I just want to fume that I want an easier child.

 

Many things have gotten better. It no longer takes him 20 minutes to put tennis shoes on because "it feels." But, I still see him tugging on clothes through out the day (which frustrates him). It's probably like me -- I get so grumpy when I'm hot. I just want to get away from everyone, so Thanksgiving at my parents is hard for me, because they have the "old people temperature" thing going on in their house, and I'm helping with cooking and cleaning, and I just want to open up all the door and tell everyone to take a walk to get their blood pumping. AGGHHHH!!!!!

 

PS -- These comments aren't directed at you, Parrothead -- your post just seemed like a good place to bounce off of. :D

 

This makes a lot of sense, thank you for sharing. :001_smile:

[Parrothead]

Just real quick. I have raised a boy from 8 to 21. I have some life experience with this too. I feel like we adequately kept him away from negative influences, taught him character at home, doled out pretty strict consequences, allowed him to explore interest, taught him to be a man of integrity despite what is going on around him, to be honest, hard working, and so on and so forth.

 

I'm not sure, though, that I can say I changed his temperament or made the issues he struggles with go away. He was the one who made excuses, lied, kept the whole truth from coming out, etc. This only ever happened in context of him not wanting to get into trouble.

 

He's also been a procrastinator.

 

I cannot say these things changed because we did something right or that they didn't go way because we did something wrong. Being in OCS, there is no room for excuses, and because he wants to be an officer, I believe he is doing what it takes to get there. If he doesn't really want to get around to a college paper, he is going to wait until the last minute. If he doesn't really want to do his taxes, he is going to wait until the last minute. And you know what? Now that he is an adult, he is more apt to just say, "I didn't want to take care of it," but still often I hear, "I've been so busy -- blah blah blah." I hear lots of adult making excuses for their procrastination. I call customers every month because they're late paying their lawn bill. I wonder how many times these same customers are late paying their mortgage?

 

He told me that he remembers one day realizing that he had to decide to be a man of integrity because it's his responsibility -- not because we've told him to, or because he will get into trouble if he doesn't, and so on.

 

He's quite an incredible guy now, if I do say so myself. I think things we did surely influenced this, but we were never able to make him stop procrastinating, and who knows -- he might still lie to us today if he felt life would be easier without us knowing something.

 

So, I'm going to just keep plodding along. I'm not the kind of person who tries to find some label for my kids so I can make excuses for them, but I know for certain that Ben's struggles are very different than my other two boys. They are more frequent, more frustrating, more off the wall. I'm just trying to figure out how to parent him and sometimes, yes, I just want to fume that I want an easier child.

 

Many things have gotten better. It no longer takes him 20 minutes to put tennis shoes on because "it feels." But, I still see him tugging on clothes through out the day (which frustrates him). It's probably like me -- I get so grumpy when I'm hot. I just want to get away from everyone, so Thanksgiving at my parents is hard for me, because they have the "old people temperature" thing going on in their house, and I'm helping with cooking and cleaning, and I just want to open up all the door and tell everyone to take a walk to get their blood pumping. AGGHHHH!!!!!

 

PS -- These comments aren't directed at you, Parrothead -- your post just seemed like a good place to bounce off of. :D

No problem.

 

I'll offer this though. Did you or did you not give Aaron the tools to come to the realization that he needs to be a man of integrity? Instead of making excuses for his lying and procrastinating (and I don't think procrastinating to a certain extent is exactly a bad thing.) you helped him realize that there will always be consequences. You may not think you (and your dh) did anything special, but in all reality you did quite a bit to help him become the man he is today. And, yes, from everything you've ever said about him, he is a wonderful young man.

 

From what you said above, have you ever had Ben evaluated for sensory issues? Living with sensory issues without the tools to cope would make just about anyone rude. It might be that you are getting off lucky with "jerk" if his discomfort is very great.

[Ginevra]

Respectfully, I think you may have missed an important point here. You can be the best parent in the world, and doing all of the right things *for that specific child*, and still not see the fruit of your labours in each and every moment. When you are parenting an explosive child, it's not as easy as just doing XYZ and, poof, no more issues. Sometimes you can spend years setting a foundation so that when the child is in the developmentally appropriate place, they finally get it. Sometimes they just aren't capable of reigning it in, no matter what you do. And that's not any more of an excuse than saying a two year old does typical two year old things because they're two... there's a broad range of 'typical', and for some kids, typical (i.e. natural/instinctive to them) can be pretty ugly.

 

I really think it does a disservice to parents to blame a lack of parenting (or lack of the "right parenting") for a child's behaviour. Sometimes kids are going to do what they're going to do, and as parents we just have to do our best to help navigate through it all. Again, that's not about making excuses; it's about understanding that we need to do our best, trust that our kids are doing their best, and just keep moving forward.

 

Melanie (mother to an angel child, an explosive child, and two as yet to be determined personality-wise)

:iagree:

[eternalknot]

:grouphug: I'm really not sure why the other posters jumped on you like that. I didn't read anything at all in your post that indicated you thought your son was a sociopath! I just saw that you were worried he had anger/explosive issues and tried to manipulate situations for a positive outcome for himself.

 

I'll chalk it up to the heat? Yikes!:leaving:

 

:grouphug: took the words straight from my fingers.

[Sugarfoot]

Dawn, I have one DS with sensory issues, dyslexia, and likely Asperger's, who's super sweet even though so many things bother him. Then there's DD 5. She's the one with the official SPD diagnosis, and while OT has helped immensely, she is just...so different than my others. It's so hard to deal with. Her therapist has explained that her little body feels as though it's in fight or flight mode all the time, and it just wears. her. out. It's also not something that her health will be able to support long-term, which is why we're doing everything we can to help her. Sometimes I wonder if we're making any progress at all, though.

 

One of my deepest hopes has been that she's not dyslexic, as she's my other lefty, like DS (they both get the left-handedness from me, and dyslexia runs in my DH's family). I just don't feel like I have the energy to deal with all of that again, especially with her, oh, my word, I can't imagine. Over the last few weeks, she's been showing some signs that she may go the other way and be fairly precocious with academics, and now I'm thinking that may be worse!

 

Anyway, all this to say that something in your original post just struck me, and I just wanted to offer :grouphug: to you. The one thing that I emphasize over and over with DD is empathy. So, for example, if she loses a game to me, I explain how it makes me feel that she wishes I would have lost, and that when she wins, I'm happy for her, but it makes me sad that she can't feel the same for me. This seems to be the thing that my other kids do automatically that, for whatever reason, she doesn't, and it bothers me. My DS 3.5 is much better at this sort of thing than she is.

 

Last night when we got home, she threw a fit as we were pulling into the driveway, and after everyone else went into the house, I had her help me pick up the trash (her mess that she had made on purpose) on the floor of the van. She actually said, "I'm not picking up trash. That's your job." We had a conversation about why she thought that she was too good to do something that she thought I should do for her, and how that made me feel. Then I turned the tables on her and asked her how she would feel if I made picking up everyone else's trash her permanent job. (which was so tempting at that moment...)

 

I understand what you're saying. Yes, of course there was a consequence, but I want the motivation behind the behavior to change. Moments like this have happened since she was old enough to speak. None of my other children are anything like this. There's something else there, and it's exhausting to deal with, but I'm determined, just like you, that my child understands the effect her behavior has on other people. Although she would never say such a thing to anyone else, ugh.

 

It's hard when you've been a perfectly effective parent for years, and then suddenly you have a child who is so "out there" that you feel like you must become a totally different parent just for them.

[eternalknot]

I ask this in all sincerity, no snark intended. Have you thought about kicking the parenting experts to the curb? I know that is an unpopular idea today. IMO it seems that "they" can't make up their minds from one year to the next on what is the "right" way to raise kids.

 

First it is this method, then that style. Many are counter-intuitive and do more harm than good. As is so often said in homeschooling circles, "no one knows your child better than you."

 

IDK I've just always felt that we didn't have so many screwed up families/kids back before so many experts entered on the scene.

 

 

This is good.

 

I have some really great friends. They've grown up in a different social and ethnic culture than I did, and it's always interesting to share experiences and advice. We learn from each other; sometimes what to do, sometimes what not to do.

 

That said, especially amongst my homeschooling friends -who are very well-read and 'into' researching and such- the most common conversation is always what parenting book du jour they're reading and "doing". To me it's akin to changing math programs every six weeks, any time a challenge arises. I've never really read any parenting books because I've never felt a need to. I have a very close extended family that serve as my panel of experts, and I don't value degrees for their output so much as I do for their input (the time it took an individual to commit and complete, as opposed to what it means for the rest of the world that this person has earned one). The wording of that seems weird, but hopefully the meaning is somewhat clear; I think I used incorrect wording, but there it is.

 

My kids aren't perfect. They're normal kids - sometimes charming, sometimes I'm just waiting for their heads to start spinning around and them to begin speaking in tongues. As with their academics, consistency seems important. Consistency amongst the adults involved, and consistency from day to day. It seems consistency is particularly important with certain personality types, and I suspect for the more higher-strung, more emotional children referred to in this thread. I have one of those myself. I was one of those, myself. Am one of those, myself.

 

As a whole we need to trust ourselves, and to rely on an established social support system rather than turning to self-proclaimed and detached experts who write training manuals as if they're addressing dogs. Not to say there isn't valuable information out there -I'm sure there is- but it's important to take this information and figure out ways to make it applicable to our own lives. It's trusting oneself that matters most, and will help set the tone for how our children view our parenting. OP, it sounds like you do trust yourself and are just going through a rough patch. This post was more for the benefit of agreeing with the quoted post and because I apparently had an opinion to share on so-called parenting experts and how I think they can do more harm than good. /unexpected rant

 

(I do feel better having gotten that off of my chest, though, whew!)

[eternalknot]

He is by far the hardest of the three. I just cannot believe how uncaring he can be toward us, his parents. The second things don't go his way, he lashes out. He has called both his dad and me a jerk today. I cannot even imagine my other boys saying anything like that. He argues and questions things constantly. I am totally worn out from it. Thanks for listening.

 

We're a pretty relaxed environment here, particularly WRT to discipline.

 

I honestly don't care if my kids think I'm a jerk, but I do care that they (1) hurl that at me disrespectively and with the intent to hurt/upset me, and (2) say it, period. Not every last thought need be shared, particularly those steeped in frustration. I certainly don't always share when I think my kids are being jerks, and -TBH- there are times that they ARE being jerks. I have no problem reminding them of this. Relationships aren't easy, and there will be times when we upset each other, frustrate each other, and flat out dislike being around each other. Those feelings are understandable, but the outbursts are not.

 

I'm straight with my kids: my job is to guide them through to adulthood. It's a long road, and there will be detours along the way. There will be easy stretches, and challenging stretches. There will be times I want to abandon them on the journey, and times I'll be skipping along beside them. My responsibility is what it is, though, and I'm committed to guiding them. Even when they try to push me to the side - directly or indirectly, intentionally or unintentionally, through words or actions. I'm like their personal hemorrhoid, I'm in it to the, um, end, and I'm not giving up on them. I say this to them often. Usually after I've had to discipline them (once we've all calmed down). I'm a lecturer by nature, and they roll their eyes and sometimes even recite alongside me LOL, but the repetition seems to bring it on home and to help them see where I'm coming from -once the emotion/heat of the moment has passed, and clearer heads prevail.

 

To that end, there's a time and a place to argue and question. Me, or any adult; life, or any facet of it. It's taken time and maturity to determine that fine line, and we're still a work in progress with this. Not just my kids, but myself as well if you ask my parents! So that is something we actively work on; exhaustively. And you know what? I say just that in the heat of a moment -- I won't discuss, explain, or justify everything I expect, ask, or require of them, and I certainly won't do so with an irrational child. Sometimes once the child has calmed, we can discuss. And it might be to explain where I'm coming from, or it might be to just say - hey, this is one of those things you have to trust me on because I'm not going to give you an explanation for it. The flip side is that I give my kids the same leeway. I don't demand an explanation for every last thing they do or try to get away with, I allow them the same flexibility to sometimes just know they've messed up without having to justify or argue it to me. I suppose we allow each other to save face and to sometimes just wallow in our own errors without having to billboard them to the family.

 

It sounds like you might best write a list of character issues you want to address, and to work down the list one by one rather than trying to change everything at once. Show him the list, and treat it as you would any other "subject" -- this is what we're working on, this is how we'll handle x-situation, and y-outburst. Have a plan, and involve him in it before situations arise. When he blows up, refer back to the plan; I think this works well with certain personality types, and maybe it'd work with yours. Predictability, consistency - even while a work in progress. Guide him through this personal development, knowing he just requires a different set of tools than do your other boys.

 

And -if he's anything like mine- know that you can count on a new grey hair weekly from the privilege of the experience. I've grown a lot alongside my most challenging kids. It's hard in the trenches, but I hold hope that the payoff is around the corner. It's a long, long block but I know it can't go on forever. Can it? ::bites fingernails::

 

[leeannpal]

I ask this in all sincerity, no snark intended. Have you thought about kicking the parenting experts to the curb? I know that is an unpopular idea today. IMO it seems that "they" can't make up their minds from one year to the next on what is the "right" way to raise kids.

 

First it is this method, then that style. Many are counter-intuitive and do more harm than good. As is so often said in homeschooling circles, "no one knows your child better than you."

 

IDK I've just always felt that we didn't have so many screwed up families/kids back before so many experts entered on the scene.

 

I put the words, "all the right things," in quotation marks precisely because I don't believe there are any parenting experts. Frankly, you are one of those "parenting experts" I was talking about. You know, the kind who have well mannered kids and pat themselves on the back because they think it is a result of their parenting when it just might be the kid's temperament, maturity level or the fact that the child does not have a brain function problem, i.e. ADHD, Asberger's Syndrome or Autism.

Edited July 31, 2011 by leeannpal

[YLVD]

deleted as I read the post incorrectly

Edited July 31, 2011 by YLVD

[leeannpal]

:iagree: Now it's all about excuses, excuses, excuses. It's so hard to find support in teaching our kids responsibility for their own actions from a young age. A great book about this is "A Family of Value" by John Rosemond. I highly recommend it. :001_smile:

 

Yes, I read and enjoyed the book too. Does it work for my daughter? No way! But, then again, she has ADHD and does not respond to "normal" parenting measures. Believe me, we've been down that road.

[YLVD]

If you don't have a child with this temperament or impulse/frustration control issues, you realy don't know what will and will not work with the child. My dauhgter is very much like the OP's child. Harsh consequences do not work at all with my daughter bcause she lacks the ability to to have self-control and impulse control. Part of this is due to her ADHD. Ordinary parenting tools simply do not work for these kids in many cases.

 

As someone with severe ADD and Bipolar disorder, I disagree that these tools simply don't work. Maybe for some, but not many.

 

When my parents were actually consistent, a bit more authoritative, I did much better than when they handled me with kid gloves. I was a tough child and teen. I won't go into details but with my mental health stuff, you can just imagine.

 

Looking back, I wish that my parents had put swift and harsher consequences on me. This is along with the proper meds or counseling. Those together would have made a huge and positive difference in my life. It's interesting but I'm in therapy and according to my therapist, that is related to a lot of issues that I've had in my adult life.

 

Even if we lack self-control or are explosive, etc..we need to be reigned in and shown that you can't behave like that in the world. It doesn't work without the proper emotional support. But it can be effective.

[LibraryLover]

:iagree: 100% This is absolutely true for my "Negotiator," my most challenging child. He needs a LOT of proactive investment on my part. Trying to "fix" him with harsh discipline devolves amazingly fast.

 

 

I think this is a good point. If a child is already sensitive or challenging, adding more harshness to the mix isn't going to serve anyone well. Parenting is never so easy as one would like.

[YLVD]

Just real quick. I have raised a boy from 8 to 21. I have some life experience with this too. I feel like we adequately kept him away from negative influences, taught him character at home, doled out pretty strict consequences, allowed him to explore interest, taught him to be a man of integrity despite what is going on around him, to be honest, hard working, and so on and so forth.

 

I'm not sure, though, that I can say I changed his temperament or made the issues he struggles with go away. He was the one who made excuses, lied, kept the whole truth from coming out, etc. This only ever happened in context of him not wanting to get into trouble.

 

He's also been a procrastinator.

 

I cannot say these things changed because we did something right or that they didn't go way because we did something wrong. Being in OCS, there is no room for excuses, and because he wants to be an officer, I believe he is doing what it takes to get there. If he doesn't really want to get around to a college paper, he is going to wait until the last minute. If he doesn't really want to do his taxes, he is going to wait until the last minute. And you know what? Now that he is an adult, he is more apt to just say, "I didn't want to take care of it," but still often I hear, "I've been so busy -- blah blah blah." I hear lots of adult making excuses for their procrastination. I call customers every month because they're late paying their lawn bill. I wonder how many times these same customers are late paying their mortgage?

 

He told me that he remembers one day realizing that he had to decide to be a man of integrity because it's his responsibility -- not because we've told him to, or because he will get into trouble if he doesn't, and so on.

 

He's quite an incredible guy now, if I do say so myself. I think things we did surely influenced this, but we were never able to make him stop procrastinating, and who knows -- he might still lie to us today if he felt life would be easier without us knowing something.

 

So, I'm going to just keep plodding along. I'm not the kind of person who tries to find some label for my kids so I can make excuses for them, but I know for certain that Ben's struggles are very different than my other two boys. They are more frequent, more frustrating, more off the wall. I'm just trying to figure out how to parent him and sometimes, yes, I just want to fume that I want an easier child.

 

Many things have gotten better. It no longer takes him 20 minutes to put tennis shoes on because "it feels." But, I still see him tugging on clothes through out the day (which frustrates him). It's probably like me -- I get so grumpy when I'm hot. I just want to get away from everyone, so Thanksgiving at my parents is hard for me, because they have the "old people temperature" thing going on in their house, and I'm helping with cooking and cleaning, and I just want to open up all the door and tell everyone to take a walk to get their blood pumping. AGGHHHH!!!!!

 

PS -- These comments aren't directed at you, Parrothead -- your post just seemed like a good place to bounce off of. :D

 

I just want to say that you sound like a great mother. You gave the older son the tools necessary to become that amazing man. This younger son needs something different, which includes behavioral help, and swift and sometimes harsh consequences. The mix of things will be helpful. Wish a child like this, the harsh consequences on their own is NEVER a good idea. What people are often missing is that it is one tool to use with everything else, such as therapy for the issues, diagnosis, if applicable, etc.

Edited July 31, 2011 by YLVD