Using Omnibus if you're secular?

[Ria Plus One]

I've been looking at Omnibus and I love the curriculum for many reasons but obviously it is religious. I haven't been able to see Omnibus in person and even then, I couldn't possibly see it all before I started so I was wondering if you could all share your opinions, whether you're religious or secular yourself on whether you think it could work for us. Is it possible to use Omnibus and teach your children that that's what people of a particular faith believe or is it impossible to avoid the religious aspect? Does it affect the "version" of history that is told? Please excuse anything offensive - I'm new to homeschooling and have had very little knowledge of the different branches of individual religions (We're actually hoping to study religions of the world this year!).

 

Thank you everyone for your help! We can't wait to get everything ordered ready for fall. :001_smile:

[8filltheheart]

I've been looking at Omnibus and I love the curriculum for many reasons but obviously it is religious. I haven't been able to see Omnibus in person and even then, I couldn't possibly see it all before I started so I was wondering if you could all share your opinions, whether you're religious or secular yourself on whether you think it could work for us. Is it possible to use Omnibus and teach your children that that's what people of a particular faith believe or is it impossible to avoid the religious aspect? Does it affect the "version" of history that is told? Please excuse anything offensive - I'm new to homeschooling and have had very little knowledge of the different branches of individual religions (We're actually hoping to study religions of the world this year!).

 

Thank you everyone for your help! We can't wait to get everything ordered ready for fall. :001_smile:

 

Douglas Wilson is the author of Omnibus. He is extremely hostile toward Catholicism. Many of his claims about Catholicism and Catholic theology are simply false.

 

So, yes, it does affect the "version" of history that is told.

[Ria Plus One]

Douglas Wilson is the author of Omnibus. He is extremely hostile toward Catholicism. Many of his claims about Catholicism and Catholic theology are simply false.

 

So, yes, it does affect the "version" of history that is told.

 

Would you mind sending me a PM to let me know of an example? Like I said, I don't mean to offend. It is purely ignorance. I would really appreciate it if you could take the time though. :001_smile:

[PeterPan]

I own Omnibus I and II, and I can tell you the religion is so replete throughout, I don't see how a secular user would use it. Ok, I guess maybe you could take the strictly history readings and view them as moral discussions. However the whole POINT of the curriculum is to integrate the discussion of history, religion, and lit. You can decide for yourself by going to google books. They have extensive, HUGE samples there for you to look at. You'll see the whole toc, which will show you that such a large component is religious that I'm not sure it makes sense for the secular user.

 

Have you looked at the Fran Rutherford guides? I have them, and they'd be terrific for a secular/moral user, with no theology problem for you, just morality I think most people would find applicable and appropriate to the texts.

[missmoe]

I love the concept of Omnibus. I love all the work that went into these works. I want to be able to use them.

 

But I've accepted that they just won't work on a secular level. The religous aspect of the Omnibus permeates the whole work.

[angela in ohio]

The whole point of Omnibus is to view the Great Books through the lens of a Christian worldview. It would really be pretty pointless to use it secularly.

[Hillary in KS]

I agree with the above posters. We've used Omnibus 2 and 3, and will do 4 this year. I can't see how you'd do it, other than simply using the reading lists. (Well, most of them.)

[Ria Plus One]

I love the concept of Omnibus. I love all the work that went into these works. I want to be able to use them.

 

But I've accepted that they just won't work on a secular level. The religous aspect of the Omnibus permeates the whole work.

 

I think this is the biggest problem. We so want to use them but it's an obstacle I'm not sure we can overcome.

 

Thank you everyone for your replies, though! :001_smile:

[PeterPan]

Ria, there's a Catholic set of discussion materials that might be more comfortable to you. The name is totally slipping my mind, but maybe it will come later. Have you looked at WEM? Omnibus isn't that great a loss, honest.

[Plaid Dad]

I looked carefully at Omnibus for the school where I used to teach. I can't see how it could be used secularly, or even by non-Reformed Christians. Reformed theology is woven into every aspect of the program.

[justamouse]

 

That Mom's recent article on what Omnibus/Vision Forum promotes.

[PeterPan]

That Mom's recent article on what Omnibus/Vision Forum promotes.

 

For as much as I'm wanting to get the connection here, I'm missing it. For people who aren't interested in the debates of the patriarchy movement and the particular theological break-ups of the reformed presybterian movement, I don't think there is even really a connection at all. You can open up Omnibus and use it and not have one inkling of anything that article is talking about. Besides, it's Douglas Wilson who edited Omnibus, not Doug Philips. And those reformed presbys (VP, etc.) are so fractured and complicated in how they view stuff, it's hard even for outside people to sort them out. What you're talking about there is not in Omnibus but more guilt by association. There might even be those associations if you dig enough, but that's not the curriculum.

 

VP and the Detweilers have stated exactly what their goal is: they want to bring harder and more advanced material down to a lower level to create a layer of more educated christian students who can become leaders in the secular world (political, economic, etc.). I think it probably connects into their theology and eschatology. But even that doesn't bug me. You can disagree with them on particular motives and STILL find the materials useful.

Edited July 27, 2011 by OhElizabeth

[justamouse]

For as much as I'm wanting to get the connection here, I'm missing it. For people who aren't interested in the debates of the patriarchy movement and the particular theological break-ups of the reformed presybterian movement, I don't think there is even really a connection at all. You can open up Omnibus and use it and not have one inkling of anything that article is talking about. Besides, it's Douglas Wilson who edited Omnibus, not Doug Philips. And those reformed presbys (VP, etc.) are so fractured and complicated in how they view stuff, it's hard even for outside people to sort them out. What you're talking about there is not in Omnibus but more guilt by association. There might even be those associations if you dig enough, but that's not the curriculum.

 

Well, if you agree with it, it's hard for you to see. But that doesn't mean it's not there. The whole theology permeates Omnibus, like you said.

[PeterPan]

Well, if you agree with it, it's hard for you to see. But that doesn't mean it's not there. The whole theology permeates Omnibus, like you said.

 

Well I've taken grad level theology courses, and when I read the essays in Omnibus I *don't* identify with it. There's a lot they express that I wouldn't have put that way. There's a lot there that is leading the students into something when they don't have the background or knowledge to have an informed opinion. And frankly, after I heard Douglas Wilson speak, I had even MORE reservations. (He's a nut.)

 

There's always the slight curiosity to me when people assume an element they're seeing (in Omnibus or elsewhere) is "reformed" or whatever, when it's really just what the Bible says. Most people don't even know their theology well enough to sort through issues. So sometimes people see something *new* and think it's not part of their faith. It just isn't yet because they haven't learned it yet. But yes, there's stuff in Omnibus that really had me raising my eyebrows saying I WOULDN'T have put it that way.

 

And my goal for this coming year is to work dd through some basic theology books of my choice, with lots of discussion, so she's approaching things from our perspective. THEN a student can go into a work like Omnibus with their eyes open.

[nansk]

... We so want to use them but it's an obstacle I'm not sure we can overcome....

 

Could you please share what it is that you like so much about Omnibus? Then hopefully other posters will suggest alternatives that can be secularized. I am interested in this topic too. :bigear:

[missmoe]

Could you please share what it is that you like so much about Omnibus? Then hopefully other posters will suggest alternatives that can be secularized. I am interested in this topic too. :bigear:

 

I love how it is integrated. I love the beauty of the actual product. I love how the program follows the thought processes of the logic and rhetoric stages.

 

I love the introduction sections to be used before reading the lit. I love the discussion, recitation, analysis, and writing sections. I love the idea of the discussion questions. And the art sections as well as the fact it includes essay suggestions.

[angela in ohio]

I love how it is integrated. I love the beauty of the actual product. I love how the program follows the thought processes of the logic and rhetoric stages.

 

I love the introduction sections to be used before reading the lit. I love the discussion, recitation, analysis, and writing sections. I love the idea of the discussion questions. And the art sections as well as the fact it includes essay suggestions.

 

Have you looked at Invititation to the Classsics or the Well-Educated Mind? Both have this. They might help if you have to pull together your own thing. Honestly, I think the best secular option is to use the WTM recommendation. You have the writing, the background info, etc.

[angela in ohio]

That Mom's recent article on what Omnibus/Vision Forum promotes.

 

You realize that Doug Wilson and Doug Phillips are two different people, right? This article has nothing to do with Omnibus, which is not from Vision Forum. It's about Doug Phillips and Vision Forum, not Doug Wilson and Veritas Press. They are not affiliated with (nor do they even agree with) Logos or Veritas Press.