notgrass history...2-3 hours for each daily lesson? Really?

[sadiegirl]

I am trying to find U.S. History for 9th and 10th graders. I have seen several of you mention Notgrass so I went to their website. It says there are 150 daily lessons which includes text, reading and writing assignments. The site also says depending on your student that they may require 2-3 hours for each daily lesson.

HOW on earth are we suppose to allot that much time to history with all our other subjects?!?!

I think that is a bit much.

Any comments and advice for U.S. History? I have also heard good things about MFW but I after looking at their website I wonder if it is heavy on the religion. We are Christian and I am not opposed to a Christian approach but don't want it heavy in text. KWIM?

[ma23peas]

Here are some books that I like for US History:

 

(We're doing World History and I looked at Notgrass but we do not need all that comes with it, so today I bought Oxford's Atlas of World History and DK's Visual History book...I then made my own timeline book someone linked to earlier by Janice Campbell...it took me 10 minutes to print out all the pages and they're already in a notebook..so World History created ala Amazon.com and my printer :))

 

I would use "The Story of Liberty" by Charles Coffin then look on Amazon.com to see what other titles people bought who bought that and buy others to supplement...that's how I did mine..I ended up with "The Making of America", "The Real George Washington" and a few others..hope this helps!

Tara

[sadiegirl]

Here are some books that I like for US History:

 

(We're doing World History and I looked at Notgrass but we do not need all that comes with it, so today I bought Oxford's Atlas of World History and DK's Visual History book...I then made my own timeline book someone linked to earlier by Janice Campbell...it took me 10 minutes to print out all the pages and they're already in a notebook..so World History created ala Amazon.com and my printer :))

 

I would use "The Story of Liberty" by Charles Coffin then look on Amazon.com to see what other titles people bought who bought that and buy others to supplement...that's how I did mine..I ended up with "The Making of America", "The Real George Washington" and a few others..hope this helps!

Tara

 

Hi Tara,

I can't go the route of "making my own" this year. We are looking at a potential move mid-term and I really need something laid out for me. I want to minimize the stress in the areas that I can control to some degree. I would like a US History that is laid out and easy for student to use as well as little prep on my part.

[Lori D.]

re: amount of daily work

I think Notgrass lists that 2-3 hours as the amount of daily work because Notgrass has you award a total of 3 credits to 3 different subject areas at the end of the program:

1 credit History

1 credit English (literature)

1 credit Bible

 

re: overly Christian

I am not familiar with MFW (though I do understand they use Notgrass as a spine in their materials), but Notgrass itself was not "Christian-heavy" -- and, like you, we are a Christian family, but don't like to be bludgeoned with it in our school materials.

 

While we did not use Notgrass' World History (from the samples, the Christian view seemed to be too heavily entwined with the text, but more importantly, I just didn't think it was reasonable to try and cover 5000+ years of history in 30 weeks), we really enjoyed Notgrass' Exploring American history. It was very refreshing in its informal tone (non-textbook-y), and in its Evangelical Christian tone (the 2 years previous we had used a secular textbook). Also, it is quite easy to keep Notgrass on YOUR timetable -- just assign a very FEW of the research/writing assignment ideas -- maybe one a quarter. :)

 

Below is a "replay" of my review from a previous post, as I think it may help answer some of your concerns. Of course, the best is to take a look at the actual program, or at least the sample lessons (scroll down on the website and click on the various "Look Inside" options) and see what YOU think. :)

 

Hope something here has been of help, and BEST of luck in finding what is the best American History match for YOUR family! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

 

Past post reviewing Notgrass' Exploring America program, from the thread: "Notgrass History Exploring America - would like feedback from anyone who has used this":

 

Notgrass Exploring America is a full-year, high school level history program. It consists of a 2-volume history text and a 3rd volume of: source documents and speeches, essays, poems, etc. from authors of the time. The program is divided into 30 units, with each unit scheduled to take 1 week. There are 5 chapters per unit (one for each day of the week), with the first 4 chapters being the history text, and the 5th chapter being the Biblical worldview discussion chapter.

 

The history text portion is from an evangelical Christian perspective, but that is pretty much kept to the Bible chapters. It is written in an informal, somewhat conversational style. The program can be done solo by the student.

 

 

We used the Notgrass American History program two years ago, with two DSs, then grades 10 and 11. We settled on it largely because of the primary source volume, and enjoyed the program. When researching options, I had really liked what I saw from the samples at the website; and the source document book was the clincher for me -- not having to hunt all that down myself! Also, we had previously done two years of world history with Spielvogel's Human Odyssey (secular, formal textbook), and, while there are many aspects I like about it, it's... well... a textbook. In contrast, Notgrass was refreshingly informal and more conversational in tone. Spielvogel is kinda dry, and also slightly/subtly antagonistic towards The Church. Also it leans a bit pro-socialism and it glossed over just how huge and horrible the decisions of Stalin and Hitler were in wiping out huge numbers of people.

 

Just to balance this, others on this board have shared that they feel the writing of Notgrass is boring; and since it's all B&W photos and illustrations, some students have found it to be a visually dull program; in some of these cases, while parents enjoyed the program, students who were used to a "living books" approach found it dull and did not retain information. Others on this board who are looking for a Catholic or Reformed perspective have mentioned being unhappy with the distinctly Evangelical Christian perspective of Notgrass.

 

 

re: religious/secular

Every history text is written from a particular bias; in the introduction to the text, Ray Notgrass explains his Christian evangelical born-again worldview, along with where/when he was raised and some of the major events which helped shape his life. Any mention of God or Bible Scriptures are in the 5th chapter of each week's lessons, which is specifically designed as a Biblical Worldview discussion related to topics in that week's lessons. The 4 chapters each week on History are pretty straightforward history text, specifically from a white, Conservative, church-going perspective. As far as bias, I would say:

 

- the usual key events / people are covered

- the author is patriotic and proud of the U.S., but also mentions faults/failures

- from a gently conservative point-of-view

- ill-treatment of African Americans and Native Americans is not covered much

- Evangelical / Protestant religious movements / trends / leaders are mentioned within the historical context, but not over-emphasized

- no mention of Catholic, Reformed, Jewish, or other religious movements

 

The fifth chapter each week is the Bible lesson. I would consider it more to be a Biblical worldview discussion, as it uses events from the earlier history chapters in that week to springboard into a Christian worldview discussion, and quoting a Scripture in there. These Bible lesson chapters put specific issues/events just read about in the previous 4 chapters for that week into a worldview context, making it very easy to see WHY we read about history -- how history applies to our lives and choices.

 

There is no Biblical material in the other 4 lessons of the week, other than the just very occasional mention of historical church movement -- but it is mentioned as just one small part of what might be happening in society as a whole at that time period. You could easily skip the fifth chapter every week if you wanted, with no detriment to the history portion of the book.

 

A number of hymns are included in the source document book, but they can easily be skipped if you were not interested. The majority of the primary source documents are the key American governmental documents, famous speeches, a few essays, a short story, and a number of poems from authors of the time.

 

 

re: how much credit?

We used the history program as written, adapting it very little and counted it as 1 credit of History. We did not use the optional quiz and test resources.

 

Because I felt the Literature portion was lacking (see specifics below), and was not enough to award 1 credit to an English credit, we created our own separate American Literature course. However, in all fairness, others on the WTM Board, particularly those with math/science students rather than literature/humanities/arts students -- felt the Notgrass Literature was fine for 1 credit of work.

 

I also did not assign 1 credit for the Bible portion, but considered it as supplement. The Notgrass Bible portion consists of the fifth chapter of each week's unit. It is Biblical worldview topics usually based on something from the history chapters read that week. The Bible portion also includes Scripture references, suggested memory verses, and some suggested essay question ideas. The Bible study chapters were actually quite interesting, as they put specific issues/events just read about in the previous 4 chapters for that week into a worldview context, making it very easy to see WHY we read about history -- how history applies to our lives and choices -- but for me to count a complete Bible credit, a program would need to include things such as:

 

- Church history

- actual Bible study

- resources on applying Scriptural principles to life

- devotional and/or inspirational readings

- worship/prayer time

 

 

re: the English/literature portion of Notgrass

The English portion of Notgrass consists of a literature list (mix of about a 12 works: about half are classics, several are biographies, and the rest are historical fiction and "lite" works). There are only a few comprehension questions, and there are weekly writing assignment ideas. There is no literary analysis. There are no discussion questions. There is no instruction in writing or grammar, or actual grammar or vocabulary work.

 

What is included for the Literature portion:

- a loose reading schedule ("Start this book now; plan to finish this novel by the end of ____ history unit.")

- (sometimes) a paragraph about the author

- 2-3 questions at the end of the novels (no questions about the poetry or short stories)

- 2-3 writing assignments to choose from each week, based on the history/research or Bible topics (not the literature)

 

 

For example:

The Scarlet Letter is assigned at the start of week two and is to finished at the end of week three. During that time you ALSO read for literature a few poems by Anne Bradstreet, some excerpts from Benjamin Franklin's "Poor Richard's Almanac", and Jonathon Edward's sermon "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God". At the end of the reading, there three paragraphs about a general theme in Scarlet Letter, each ending with one question, so the three questions on The Scarlet Letter were:

 

- "What were sins of the community, its leaders, Dimmesdale, and Chillingsworth?"

- (refering to contrast of light/dark, forest/community images in the book): "How is this symbolic?"

- and "How is this story similar/different from John 8:1-11, the Biblical story of the woman caught in adultery?"

Edited July 25, 2011 by Lori D.

[silliness7]

I am trying to find U.S. History for 9th and 10th graders. I have seen several of you mention Notgrass so I went to their website. It says there are 150 daily lessons which includes text, reading and writing assignments. The site also says depending on your student that they may require 2-3 hours for each daily lesson.

HOW on earth are we suppose to allot that much time to history with all our other subjects?!?!

I think that is a bit much.

Any comments and advice for U.S. History? I have also heard good things about MFW but I after looking at their website I wonder if it is heavy on the religion. We are Christian and I am not opposed to a Christian approach but don't want it heavy in text. KWIM?

 

Notgrass claims that if you do it *as written* you can earn 3 highschool credits. History, English, and Bible. So it is reasonable to spend 2-3 hours on those 3 classes. However, I suspect if you only want the history credit you can knock off a lot of the work and spend the typical hour.

[Quiver0f10]

My son used Notgrass as is with no additional books or work. It did not take him 3 hours a day. I awarded him 1 credit in history. However for 1 credit in english he did IEW writing and then CC, a grammar program and the lit from Notgrass.

[sadiegirl]

My son used Notgrass as is with no additional books or work. It did not take him 3 hours a day. I awarded him 1 credit in history. However for 1 credit in english he did IEW writing and then CC, a grammar program and the lit from Notgrass.

 

Just curious, but did he enjoy the reading? I have looked at the text on the website and it looks sort of dry?!? We did Joy Hakim's US History texts when oldest son was in 8th and they really loved the way it read. I just want something more structured with lesson plans, assignments that maybe combine geography, vocabulary and lit...I have sooo many suggest MFW but I just get the feeling that it is heavy on the religion and although Christian do not want that such a strong focal point.

[Lori D.]

Just curious, but did he enjoy the reading? I have looked at the text on the website and it looks sort of dry?!?

 

 

I'm not the person you directed the question to, but yes! Our DSs DID enjoy the text (well, okay, as much as they "enjoy" any school work -- LOL!). But they had just had 2 years previously of very textbook-y history; Notgrass has a much more informal and conversational tone, and both DSs are very interested in Worldview, so they enjoyed the Christian Worldview Bible chapter at the end of each week as a springboard for analyzing History, discussing it, and putting History into perspective. However, if you are coming out of having previously done historical fiction and living books for history, yes, ANY structured formal text is going to seem dry in comparison.

 

 

Just curious, but did he enjoy the reading? I have looked at the text on the website and it looks sort of dry?!? We did Joy Hakim's US History texts when oldest son was in 8th and they really loved the way it read. I just want something more structured with lesson plans, assignments that maybe combine geography, vocabulary and lit....

 

 

You might want to compare Paul Johnson's "A History of the American People" as a possible US History textbook -- or even consider going with Sonlight's core 100 (for grades 7-10), which uses many historical fiction and living books in addition to Hakim's secular history text series "History of US" -- which you've already used. SL100 includes geography and lit., while Johnson's textbook would not. The downside, is that both of those would require more parent time.

 

 

 

I have sooo many suggest MFW but I just get the feeling that it is heavy on the religion and although Christian do not want that such a strong focal point.

 

 

If you have concerns about MFW being too heavy on religion, can you consider doing the Notgrass all on its own, and NOT as part of MFW? (Notgrass was designed to be a complete, stand-alone program; MFW just incorporates Notgrass into their program as the spine.)

 

The Notgrass history chapters are NOT heavy on religion. Any discussion of religion is contained in the 5th chapter per week which is specifically intended as the Bible chapter, and could easily be skipped. However, we found that those chapters often sparked the most interest AND discussion.

 

BEST of luck! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Lori D.
added links

[Quiver0f10]

Just curious, but did he enjoy the reading? I have looked at the text on the website and it looks sort of dry?!? We did Joy Hakim's US History texts when oldest son was in 8th and they really loved the way it read. I just want something more structured with lesson plans, assignments that maybe combine geography, vocabulary and lit...I have sooo many suggest MFW but I just get the feeling that it is heavy on the religion and although Christian do not want that such a strong focal point.

 

Well he is a math/science person so he wanted something he could just get done. Notgrass was perfect for him.

[curlylocks]

My daughter completed Notgrass' Exploring World History last year...we did supplement w/ geography because we feel geography is important and best learned in context with history.

 

There is a yahoo group "Exploring America" for *all* Notgrass curriculum. In the "Files" section, someone has uploaded lesson plans for geography.

 

Hope that helps someone!!

[LaMere Academy]

I am trying to find U.S. History for 9th and 10th graders. I have seen several of you mention Notgrass so I went to their website. It says there are 150 daily lessons which includes text, reading and writing assignments. The site also says depending on your student that they may require 2-3 hours for each daily lesson.

HOW on earth are we suppose to allot that much time to history with all our other subjects?!?!

I think that is a bit much.

Any comments and advice for U.S. History? I have also heard good things about MFW but I after looking at their website I wonder if it is heavy on the religion. We are Christian and I am not opposed to a Christian approach but don't want it heavy in text. KWIM?

 

You have to remember you get 3 credits with this course. Bible, History and a Literature. So, it makes sense. Still seems like a lot to me. I did a search here to find out more about the US History course, I'm thinking of buying it for my dd 11th grade.