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X-Post: The psychologist told me to just give DD8 a calculator


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I was ready to cry! :confused:

 

I went Friday for the final appointment with the neuropsychologist who evaluated my DD8. She said DD's learning problems are related to her Cerebral Palsy (a hospital screw up) and that her low working memory, low processing speed, and the fact that she has very poor visual memory (auditory learner) all lead her to conclude that giving her a calculator would be the best thing when it comes to her struggle with math. She was impressed that I have been able to keep her on grade level with math to date. :glare: We have been working with Singapore Math to date with lots of supplement. Now I don't know what to do. :001_unsure:

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I'm sorry. I've had a "specialist"-- head of the department tell me that my son will NEVER learn to read, write, do math, tie his shoes, ride a bike... He does them all, most things above level now. So how great was that specialist? And what would have happened if I had listened and put such limits on my child?

 

I'm going to be tough mom. Please forgive me for saying this...

 

YOU ARE THE MOM.

YOU KNOW YOUR CHILD BETTER THAN ANYONE.

DO NOT LET ANYONE PLACE LIMITS ON YOUR CHILD.

 

The specalist isn't ordering you to do anything, just suggesting. Take that as a suggestion only, and do what YOU think s best for YOUR child.

 

My hand accidentally putshed send too fast.

I have NO problems with tools to help teach. And I HAVE let my child use a calculator to do a few things as we were teaching a new skill. But to totally rely on a calculator? Depends on the situation, the child, and the math. :D

 

I am a firm believer that children should be taught and pushed to the best of THEIR abilities. So if your child is able to be on task and they are thriving-- then ignore someone suggesting you DO LESS than what they need.

Edited by joyfulheart
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My son (severely dyslexic, age 7) also has slow processing speed and some memory issues although he is quite bright and has a high IQ. When we did his evaluation last fall the psychologist told me to never ever do anything timed and basically to only give him half the work in math because of his speed.

 

I think you need to know your own child. While my son is painfully slow, he does well, far better than he would do in a public school where there must be time constraints. I just try to keep the mood light and encouraging and try to keep him from being frustrated.

 

One thing I discovered about my son and math that goes against what the psychologist said...he loves timed things! Now, he is insanely slow (not that he knows that ...the joys of homeschooling!!) We have a flashmaster and he LOVES to beat him time or score on it and amazingly enough he loves little "speed tests" (not sure of the proper name) for math--you know with a bunch of simple problems to do quickly. We don't do them a ton and there's no pressure from me but he LOVES seeing if he can get them all right in a shorter amount of time. Again, in a typical classroom he may have one of the lowest times but he doesn't know that--and it has really helped him in math. This may not be your experience but you always know your child and the situation better than a stranger.

 

On the other hand, from teaching 6th-9th grade math in the past, there are times for calculators for certain children/types of work, particularly when you are working on the process before than the basic calculation.

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My son had an extremely difficult time memorizing basic math facts. Once we got to double digit calculations, it was painful to watch him mentally count up- slowly- every single calculation to derive the final answer. He totally understood how to problem solve, but he could not remember his basic facts. I simply cut the number of problems he had to do, and continued to work on developing his memory for the facts. It took time, and he is still not totally fluent in his facts, but at 16, he is much more functional. I think giving him a calculator too early may have hindered the process, though. I started allowing him the use of a calculator around 6th grade or so- or whenever we got to multi-step word problems where the problem solving process was the target concept. Even so, we did some math facts work all the way through about 8th grade.

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Your dd sounds much like my dd11. I was also told by her public school teacher and school psychologist to give her a calculator and that I should just accept she will never be "good at school". I was furious and held back tears while telling them I didn't appreciate them deciding she has reached the limit of her capability in 5th grade. We began homeschooling a few weeks later.

 

She does work more slowly and it takes teaching a new topic many times before she remembers it the next day. But, she is such a hard worker and we just move forward at her pace. She is SO excited when it "clicks". I reduce the assignments and have let her look at many math program samples until she found one she liked. She loves Teaching Textbooks and Life of Fred, but hates Saxon Math. I removed all the pressure of goals and grades and just let her relax with it. It took about 6 months, but she asks to do math now!

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From 4th grade on, ds has always used a multiplication grid which is taped to his desk. He has selective use of the calculator, starting in about 5th grade.....primarily for checking work and in the case of long division, testing possible dividends... In these cases, I evaluate what my actual goal is...in the case of the division example above, the goal was to learn all the steps, not practice muti-digit multiplication.

 

Finally, I completely agree with reduction of problems,...I aim for about 1 hr of independent math each day.

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JMHO but please don't.

 

I teach part time at an alternative high school and from what I see the effect of handing third graders calculators is devastating to upper level math. In my state you must have Algebra 2 to obtain the basic diploma. Try slogging through algebra 1 without basic math facts. What happens to the kid who doesn't understand how to handle fractions and not simply press divide on the calculator when he encounters fractions in algebraic form. It's just a nightmare. Most of the curriculums public schools are using now introduce calculators in 3rd grade and I believe it is the downfall of most students.

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JMHO but please don't.

Try slogging through algebra 1 without basic math facts. What happens to the kid who doesn't understand how to handle fractions and not simply press divide on the calculator when he encounters fractions in algebraic form. It's just a nightmare. Most of the curriculums public schools are using now introduce calculators in 3rd grade and I believe it is the downfall of most students.

 

We only starting homeschooling last year, in 6th grade. The quote describes my son, who cannot do basic calculations. He's never mastered 3rd grade content and only pieces of the later grades because of a poor foundation.

 

I think an important consideration is whether a child understands the underlying concepts that the calculator skips him over. If he does and increased speed is needed, the calculator is probably fine. However, if the calculator is substituting for knowledge, I think it will be a crutch and cause problems well before high school is over.

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I just want to add that we use calculators occassionally. I make my son learn the facts and the methods, and he has to do it without a calculator. He is slow but steady. However, when he was doing the state required standardized testing last year I showed him how to use a calculator before hand and then let him use it during the test (testing rules say it is acceptable). He felt much more confident that way and his scores were much higher than the year before.

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My son had an extremely difficult time memorizing basic math facts. Once we got to double digit calculations, it was painful to watch him mentally count up- slowly- every single calculation to derive the final answer. He totally understood how to problem solve, but he could not remember his basic facts. I simply cut the number of problems he had to do, and continued to work on developing his memory for the facts. It took time, and he is still not totally fluent in his facts, but at 16, he is much more functional. I think giving him a calculator too early may have hindered the process, though. I started allowing him the use of a calculator around 6th grade or so- or whenever we got to multi-step word problems where the problem solving process was the target concept. Even so, we did some math facts work all the way through about 8th grade.

 

This is where we're at. We've finally agreed that for this year I will start letting her use a calculator. We'll see what happens.

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Are there any specific manipulatives that would be suggested for this type of situation? We currently use the MUS blocks the most. My DD is on grade level if she is allowed as much time as she needs to complete the assignments, so for instance if she can spend the time counting up and down as needed to do four digit addition and subtraction. Timed things are out of the question at this stage.

Edited by melmichigan
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I still do not let my son use the calculator. He still has trouble with his basic facts. He actually does multiplication better than addition if you can believe that. I am waiting till Pre-Algebra before letting him use one. I think he needs the foundation like everyone has previously stated. That being said it takes him 2 hrs to do his Math assignment and 10-15mins to do 100 basic addition and subtraction facts.

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The seeming preference for accommodation over remediation. My first experience with this was my middle child, who was in school through third grade. He broke his right (dominant) wrist just before the start of first grade, and when it healed, there was some limitation of the range of motion. It was expected to correct with growth, and it did, but meanwhile, he developed an awkward pencil grip, and that plus some other writing issues, and he was not able to learn cursive when they did it in school. Given that his printing was VERY slow and illegible, I wanted him to learn cursive.

 

I took him to an OT for a few sessions, and she immediately insisted I get him started typing, told me he'd had an awkward grip for too long and it would never be correctable. IOW, don't bother trying to improve his writing speed, just bypass it with various accommodations. I insisted she try, she gave him a few sessions, quickly learned cursive under her tutelage, and we moved on. Meanwhile, I bought some cheap pencil grips, and we started using them, tiny bits at a time.

 

He's 14 now and his writing is not beautiful, but he can take notes, write an essay, etc. He also learned to type.

 

The take home for me with this is I don't take their recommendations, particularly for accommodations versus remediation, too seriously. Audio books are great, but they are not a substitute for learning to read, even for a dyslexic child who really struggles. Why should calculator use or typing be any different?

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The take home for me with this is I don't take their recommendations, particularly for accommodations versus remediation, too seriously. Audio books are great, but they are not a substitute for learning to read, even for a dyslexic child who really struggles. Why should calculator use or typing be any different?

 

I feel very much the same way. My son is dyslexic & dysgraphic. We are at the point now in high school where he needs to use the accommodations in order to keep up with the volume of work. But all during his younger years I persisted in teaching him handwriting, reading, and spelling- as well as the aforementioned math facts. It's hard work. For years, I despaired, not seeing much progress. Yet, ds is cognitively well above average and I felt we all needed to keep plodding along.

 

Today he reads well. He gets tired and loses concentration when he has to read many pages of dense text, so I'm finding that his learning gets a boost when we use audiobooks.

 

He can write legibly when he needs to, though he is much more efficient on the keyboard. He will not be able to take adequate notes in a college class by hand, but he can scratch notes to himself, make lists, and whatever else we in this technological age still use our handwriting for.

 

And, the biggest kicker: yes, at age 16 I am still teaching spelling. Finally, at age 14 he began to make progress off the early 2nd grade level work. At that point, it was severely hindering his written expression, because he wouldn't even try to compose anymore- even on the keyboard. I FINALLY found a method for drilling spelling that works for my son, in addition to Orton Gillingham tutoring, and he has made 2.5 years worth of progress in just under 2 years- maybe more. Will he ever be a good speller without the advantage of spell checkers? Probably not, but by the time he graduates, I can see that his spelling will finally be functional enough to write grade level papers on a computer.

 

It has been a hard slog, but we are finally beginning to see the payoff. I see a bright future ahead for my son because the gap between his actual skill level & that of his cognitive peers is beginning to close.

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There are a lot of accommodations that are given in school that aren't in the long run actually helpful to the child but are more to help the class run smoothly.

 

A common example is to give the kid with ADHD or slow processing speed less work. Presumably the amount of work given has been determined to be optimal for helping kids learn whatever it is. If you give a kid less of it, then he is not getting the practice he needs to be successful. He will be successful in finishing his work which helps move things along in the classroom (or if it's homework it will keep the parents happy because the kid is able to finish), but he won't have had the practice he needs to actually learn whatever it is properly. In fact, I would venture to guess, based on my own experience with a kid with LDs/ADHD/low processing speed who would have been given this sort of accommodation in a classroom, that most kids needing this accommodation actually need *more* practice rather than less to retain information. Hence, we homeschool.

 

So back to the calculator issue. It is an accommodation that is useful for schools because it will help the child keep up with the class and appear to be successful. However, as you know, she would not be getting the practice she needs doing the math by hand. As a homeschooler, you can do what you need to do to help her actually learn the math. But people like this psychologist don't understand the world in homeschooler terms.

 

Now, as for calculator use itself, I do think that it is sometimes appropriate. For example, I frequently allow my younger son to use one when doing Singapore's Challenging Word Problems as I want him to focus on the problem solving aspect rather than the computation aspect. It makes him feel like he's getting away with something and he loves it. He gets lots of computation practice elsewhere. I allow limited calculator use starting in Algebra I, though I also require continued arithmetic review without one, and for certain topics the calculator goes away.

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