How do we integrate autobiographies/primary source documents?

[Roxy Roller]

After reading the long thread about disillusionment with history, or was it US history, taught to us in public school, how are you going to integrate primary documents/autobiographies into your homeschool at the K-8 level?

 

Obviously most of these are written above our children's reading and comprehension levels, as they were written by adults, primarily for adults. Do we try to find the least watered down adaptations? Is this even possible?

 

Can we start a list of world history and US history options for autobiographies and primary source documents for the grammar and logic stage? I am Canadian, so I would also love a Canadian history list. I love using historical fiction, but sometimes I think my DC take it more literally than they should(because of their ages), thinking it is all fact, even when I discuss it with them.

 

I would love discussion on this, or if this has been discussed, please direct me to a thread I can peruse.

[Roxy Roller]

:bigear:

[8filltheheart]

I don't use primary source documents or autobiographies for those ages. I don't think the non-fiction options are that limited.

 

We don't use textbooks. Textbooks mean all your info is coming from a single source perspective. We read lots of biographies or other whole books on topics. Some of them do make me go :tongue_smilie: , but those are also great opportunities to get other books that discuss the same events from the other perspective and demonstrate the need for discernment when reading vs. simple acceptance.

 

But, I preview our materials and deliberately exclude sources that I find objectionable during that step. Over all, the majority of the time I am happy with what I have selected.

[Roxy Roller]

Thanks, 8. I guess I need to rethink history.

 

I would really like to use a spine, but I am finding that I can't find anything that I really like. I feel like I have to choose the one that I like the most, while overlooking the things I don't like in it. Maybe I just have to use whole books and forget the spine. It just sounds like it will take more work and time that I don't have.

[PeterPan]

Well, Roxy, what time period are you wanting to cover? Truthfully, a lot of those autobiographies are way over their heads right now. Even if they *can* read them physically, it doesn't mean they're at the right age/stage for them to be gripping.

 

Primary sources are an interesting thing. Some I've found are really gripping, and some grip *me* but not her. In other words, it's good to ask what you want TO DO with them. If you're wanting to argue/debate/ponder the viewpoints, then it's good to wait till your dc is ready for that. My dd this year, rising 7th (age 12) is now to the point where she wants to argue about EVERYTHING. In other words she's ready. If you're doing ancients or the Middle Ages, Oxford University Press has a whole series that has primary sources. For American, Critical Thinking Press has stuff. And of course WTM gives you primary source suggestions for the logic stage integrated right into the history chapters. Definitely check those sections out in WTM, as what you're wanting is right there.

 

There are also good textbooks that integrate primary sources. Those OUP, much lauded, are technically textbooks. Shh, don't tell the out-of-the-box lovers! :) I've gotten some tm's for some interesting high school level texts lately that integrate primary sources. If you're looking for that kind of thing and not finding it, you might find it easier to make that step up, get a high school level tm for world or whatever history you're thinking, then use THAT as your spine to flesh out with age-appropriate extras. Definitely don't feel compelled to write your own curriculum and reinvent the wheel. Just because that's cool for someone else DOESN'T mean it's cool for you. I know I struggle with that.

 

Another thing to consider, just in case you have less time and enthusiasm for history than you have intentions, are the Veritas Press online, self-paced history classes. They're EXTREMELY well-done, can't say enough good about them. They give multiple child/multiple class discounts too.

 

BTW, I'll just tell you my newest idea for how to approach history, something that might be a good fit for your dc's ages. There are a certain number of authors (Freedman, Marrin, Jim Murphy, etc.) who are prolific authors right at this sort of logic stage, early high school level. The books are FABULOUS. And I'll tell you, I really think you could read right through their stuff, discuss, and hang anything else. They are SO well-done, so well-researched, so gripping for the age and memorable. Take this book by Susan Bartoletti http://www.amazon.com/Hitler-Youth-Growing-Hitlers-Shadow/dp/0439353793 You just can't get more compelling than this, and it's SO perfect for these ages (10-14). Talk about discussions you'll have! THIS is where our kids need to be. They don't need harder material. They need material they can think harder about. Think about that. :)

Edited July 24, 2011 by OhElizabeth

[DawnL]

BTW, I'll just tell you my newest idea for how to approach history, something that might be a good fit for your dc's ages. There are a certain number of authors (Freedman, Marrin, Jim Murphy, etc.) who are prolific authors right at this sort of logic stage, early high school level. The books are FABULOUS. And I'll tell you, I really think you could read right through their stuff, discuss, and hang anything else. They are SO well-done, so well-researched, so gripping for the age and memorable. Take this book by Susan Bartoletti http://www.amazon.com/Hitler-Youth-Growing-Hitlers-Shadow/dp/0439353793 You just can't get more compelling than this, and it's SO perfect for these ages (10-14). Talk about discussions you'll have! THIS is where our kids need to be. They don't need harder material. They need material they can think harder about. Think about that. :)

 

:lurk5:

 

Thank you for that wonderful book recommendation! That looks like a fabulous book!

 

I'm thinking similar to the OP. I'm looking for just the right things for my kids, especially my 10 year old 5th grader. I think we will wind up reading original source books, or at least parts of them, and then doing crafts and other activities to go along with them. For original sources, I am using some books I purchased on a CD from Heritage History. We will be doing American History this year and these books are pretty interesting.

 

I do like living books, though, and will be checking out more on this author.

[PeterPan]

The cool thing is the rabbit trail links on amazon will connect you to LOTS more great books from the Bartoletti page. And don't forget to look for those other authors. What I did was compare the lists amazon has of ALL the books by that author to what I could get through my library, especially with ILL. It took a while because I basically requested EVERYTHING. There's sometimes a spread in writing level, so some Marrins are higher and some are lower. Marrin isn't typically going to fit a 5th grader. But Jim Murphy's books will. Susan Bartoletti *might* by the end of the year. Freedman can.

 

So I made friends with the authors and started looking for everything they wrote. That's how I figured this out.

 

You know that TQ that Roxy lists in her sig is another way to go about this. Thing is, it's not very structured. It's so nice to have a spine. If you're starting at the beginning of american, have you seen the newly redacted version of Guerber being put out by MP? I think it's FABULOUS. I have the versions from Nothing New Press, and I like the MP versions much better. I'm not sure what ages they're aiming it at, but it would be terrific for young kids through about 5th. Once you hit that 6th+ range, I like the new Notgrass Exploring America for a spine. My dd is just a fuzz beyond it and wants something more, but she's a history nut. It really is delightful and just right for those middle grades (say 5th-???), where there hasn't really been a terrific american history spine.

Edited July 24, 2011 by OhElizabeth

[DawnL]

The cool thing is the rabbit trail links on amazon will connect you to LOTS more great books from the Bartoletti page. And don't forget to look for those other authors. What I did was compare the lists amazon has of ALL the books by that author to what I could get through my library, especially with ILL. It took a while because I basically requested EVERYTHING. There's sometimes a spread in writing level, so some Marrins are higher and some are lower. Marrin isn't typically going to fit a 5th grader. But Jim Murphy's books will. Susan Bartoletti *might* by the end of the year. Freedman can.

 

So I made friends with the authors and started looking for everything they wrote. That's how I figured this out.

 

You know that TQ that Roxy lists in her sig is another way to go about this. Thing is, it's not very structured. It's so nice to have a spine. If you're starting at the beginning of american, have you seen the newly redacted version of Guerber being put out by MP? I think it's FABULOUS. I have the versions from Nothing New Press, and I like the MP versions much better. I'm not sure what ages they're aiming it at, but it would be terrific for young kids through about 5th. Once you hit that 6th+ range, I like the new Notgrass Exploring America for a spine. My dd is just a fuzz beyond it and wants something more, but she's a history nut. It really is delightful and just right for those middle grades (say 5th-???), where there hasn't really been a terrific american history spine.

 

Do you have the first names of Freedman and Marrin?

 

I purchased TQ for the upcoming year, and you are right, it's not structured at all. It's rather overwhelming, so I'm not sure how much we will use it. I am not an organized person, so I while I like flexibility, I really need that structure to function well.

 

I actually have Guerber from the Heritage History CD. I was really pleased to those books on the CD, because I had been looking at hard copies of the 2 books and they were about $18 each. So for the $20 CD, I got both Guerber's, plus nearly 80 others. I'm hoping that between these CD books and some Scholastic books with different History activities, I may be able to get some history poured into my kids' brains. At least my oldest. My boys will be in 2nd grade and a young kindergartener. I may save it for when they are both bigger and teach them together.

 

Oh! I've also been enjoying the autobiography of Nat Love. I had never heard of him before I read a book by Steve Sheinkin and I had to look him up. VERY interesting read! He was born a slave, became a cowboy after the Civil War, and spent years and years traveling the country as a cowhand. Later, he worked on the railways, and saw all the parts of the country he missed as a cowboy.

 

If you haven't read about Nat Love, you totally have to!!

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/21634

[Roxy Roller]

Well, Roxy, what time period are you wanting to cover? Truthfully, a lot of those autobiographies are way over their heads right now. Even if they *can* read them physically, it doesn't mean they're at the right age/stage for them to be gripping.

 

Primary sources are an interesting thing. Some I've found are really gripping, and some grip *me* but not her. In other words, it's good to ask what you want TO DO with them. If you're wanting to argue/debate/ponder the viewpoints, then it's good to wait till your dc is ready for that. My dd this year, rising 7th (age 12) is now to the point where she wants to argue about EVERYTHING. In other words she's ready. If you're doing ancients or the Middle Ages, Oxford University Press has a whole series that has primary sources. For American, Critical Thinking Press has stuff. And of course WTM gives you primary source suggestions for the logic stage integrated right into the history chapters. Definitely check those sections out in WTM, as what you're wanting is right there.

 

There are also good textbooks that integrate primary sources. Those OUP, much lauded, are technically textbooks. Shh, don't tell the out-of-the-box lovers! :) I've gotten some tm's for some interesting high school level texts lately that integrate primary sources. If you're looking for that kind of thing and not finding it, you might find it easier to make that step up, get a high school level tm for world or whatever history you're thinking, then use THAT as your spine to flesh out with age-appropriate extras. Definitely don't feel compelled to write your own curriculum and reinvent the wheel. Just because that's cool for someone else DOESN'T mean it's cool for you. I know I struggle with that.

 

Another thing to consider, just in case you have less time and enthusiasm for history than you have intentions, are the Veritas Press online, self-paced history classes. They're EXTREMELY well-done, can't say enough good about them. They give multiple child/multiple class discounts too.

 

BTW, I'll just tell you my newest idea for how to approach history, something that might be a good fit for your dc's ages. There are a certain number of authors (Freedman, Marrin, Jim Murphy, etc.) who are prolific authors right at this sort of logic stage, early high school level. The books are FABULOUS. And I'll tell you, I really think you could read right through their stuff, discuss, and hang anything else. They are SO well-done, so well-researched, so gripping for the age and memorable. Take this book by Susan Bartoletti http://www.amazon.com/Hitler-Youth-Growing-Hitlers-Shadow/dp/0439353793 You just can't get more compelling than this, and it's SO perfect for these ages (10-14). Talk about discussions you'll have! THIS is where our kids need to be. They don't need harder material. They need material they can think harder about. Think about that. :)

 

Thanks, Elizabeth. We are studying MA/REF/REN this year, and I guess my main problem is that I really want to keep all of my kids(at least the older 4) together. The youngest will just tag along. They really enjoy history and want to do it together. I will take a look at the authors that you posted. I remember you had posted that you really liked the VP course, but I don't think that is the route I want to take right now.

 

I guess I am trying to keep it simple. I am loosely using the TQ guide. I like the commentary and I think that I am warming up to using the Guerber books. I really like the looks of the Dorothy Mills books, but I think they would be okay for my rising 7th graders, but above the heads of the other 3. The Dorothy Mills books seem to quote primary sources, so that is a bonus too.

 

We did TOG Year 1 last year, and we loved it, but I want to keep it simple this year, as my DD is adding logic, poetry, latin and a few other things and I am wanting to make sure that my 1st grader gets the attention he needs and wants at this stage for a good start in reading and math.

 

The cool thing is the rabbit trail links on amazon will connect you to LOTS more great books from the Bartoletti page. And don't forget to look for those other authors. What I did was compare the lists amazon has of ALL the books by that author to what I could get through my library, especially with ILL. It took a while because I basically requested EVERYTHING. There's sometimes a spread in writing level, so some Marrins are higher and some are lower. Marrin isn't typically going to fit a 5th grader. But Jim Murphy's books will. Susan Bartoletti *might* by the end of the year. Freedman can.

 

So I made friends with the authors and started looking for everything they wrote. That's how I figured this out.

 

You know that TQ that Roxy lists in her sig is another way to go about this. Thing is, it's not very structured. It's so nice to have a spine. If you're starting at the beginning of american, have you seen the newly redacted version of Guerber being put out by MP? I think it's FABULOUS. I have the versions from Nothing New Press, and I like the MP versions much better. I'm not sure what ages they're aiming it at, but it would be terrific for young kids through about 5th. Once you hit that 6th+ range, I like the new Notgrass Exploring America for a spine. My dd is just a fuzz beyond it and wants something more, but she's a history nut. It really is delightful and just right for those middle grades (say 5th-???), where there hasn't really been a terrific american history spine.

 

I didn't know that MP had put out a version of Guerber. I will have to take a look.

[PeterPan]

Guerber from MP is for american, sorry. For the middle ages and keeping it simple, either:

-VP MARR online (love!)

-SOTW2 (yes, with all your kids, up the ante with library books)

-CLE Story of the Middle Ages

 

I know, sometimes it seems like the simpler you try to make things, the harder it gets.

[leeannpal]

Have you looked at the site, www.eyewitnesstohistory.com ? Many of the stories on the site are written in a narrative form from the point of view of someone who was there. As a social studies teacher in a private school, I've used the site frequently.

[Roxy Roller]

I know, sometimes it seems like the simpler you try to make things, the harder it gets.

 

Exactly!

[Kfamily]

I couldn't really find very many autobiographies for children. I think I will have to settle for good biographies (authors such as Diane Stanley, Russell Freedman, etc.). My goals are to try to bring in at least one other perspective for all major events.

 

 

Here are some sites with some ideas for using primary documents with younger children:

 

http://www.proteacher.com/redirect.php?goto=2362

 

http://www.loc.gov/teachers/tps/quarterly/1011/article.html

 

http://www.kn.pacbell.com/wired/fil/pages/listdocumentpa.html