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NYT: At least 80 are dead in Norway shooting


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It is funny how this becomes the de facto response when someone does something horrid and uses the name of Christ to justify it. "Oh, he isn't really Christian." That's so convenient, isn't it? You can pretend he isn't a Christian, but he thinks he most certainly is. He was completely convinced and devout, in his opinion.

 

But, this is the same thing that Muslims have been trying to say about terrorists who use the name of Islam to justify their actions.

 

If one must extend grace to the Christian community for the actions of aberrants using the name of Jesus, then grace must also be extended to the Muslim community for the actions of aberrants using the name of Islam.

 

However, I continue to see people assume the worst of intentions of Muslims. There was a nasty post here (rightly deleted) claiming just that in regard to the Norway tragedy.

 

There is a lot of hatred out there posturing as religion. If you do nothing more than dismiss the Norwegian shooter as "not Christian" even though he, himself, clearly and strongly identifies as one, then you are simply playing ostrich. I think that when things like this happen, it should be a wake up call to do some serious examination of how the religion is truly operating and effecting people -- not how it SHOULD be, but how it actually IS right now.

 

 

Aye, it's very sobering. I was raised in a very conservative Christian denomination. I constantly heard messages such as, "Let's take this nation back for God!" and "God's army is marching all over the nation!" Furthermore, I remember how sympathetically people who bombed abortion clinics were viewed, and even heard suggestions that they were heros for the pro-life movement. Lastly, there was always a very strong anti-government thread weaved into these messages, with a call to "take up arms for Christ" against the surrounding "culture of death."

 

I'm not going to argue that most people who say these things mean to actually physically harm others, or intend to inspire violence. But the reality is, when you add that kind of provocative language to teachings from a Bible that exalts a God who slays the heathen, commands his own people to kill, and makes the way for godly people to take over the land--when you feed that message to a mind that is unstable or paranoid, you get a dangerous individual.

 

That's why I condemn the use of violent or inflammatory language during church teachings and lessons. Because not every mind that absorbs the message is capable of divorcing metaphor from an assumed mandate from God.

 

I've heard a lot of people angry because they believe the Islamic community doesn't do enough to condemn violent attacks by Muslim extremists. Well, speaking as someone who was raised in a conservative Christian denomination, and whose family is still firmly entrenched in that tradition, I would like to offer up the same criticism towards Christian groups.

 

I'm tired of excuses from both Islamic and Christian apologists. Both faiths need to admit and own up to those aspects of their belief systems that promote violence. It's dishonest and disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

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It is funny how this becomes the de facto response when someone does something horrid and uses the name of Christ to justify it. "Oh, he isn't really Christian." That's so convenient, isn't it? You can pretend he isn't a Christian, but he thinks he most certainly is. He was completely convinced and devout, in his opinion.

 

But, this is the same thing that Muslims have been trying to say about terrorists who use the name of Islam to justify their actions.

 

If one must extend grace to the Christian community for the actions of aberrants using the name of Jesus, then grace must also be extended to the Muslim community for the actions of aberrants using the name of Islam.

 

However, I continue to see people assume the worst of intentions of Muslims. There was a nasty post here (rightly deleted) claiming just that in regard to the Norway tragedy.

 

There is a lot of hatred out there posturing as religion. If you do nothing more than dismiss the Norwegian shooter as "not Christian" even though he, himself, clearly and strongly identifies as one, then you are simply playing ostrich. I think that when things like this happen, it should be a wake up call to do some serious examination of how the religion is truly operating and effecting people -- not how it SHOULD be, but how it actually IS right now.

 

:iagree: You beat me to it. And much more kindly than I would have put it. Jesus probably wasn't a huge fan of hypocrisy any more than violence.

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It is funny how this becomes the de facto response when someone does something horrid and uses the name of Christ to justify it. "Oh, he isn't really Christian." That's so convenient, isn't it? You can pretend he isn't a Christian, but he thinks he most certainly is. He was completely convinced and devout, in his opinion.

 

But, this is the same thing that Muslims have been trying to say about terrorists who use the name of Islam to justify their actions.

 

If one must extend grace to the Christian community for the actions of aberrants using the name of Jesus, then grace must also be extended to the Muslim community for the actions of aberrants using the name of Islam.

 

However, I continue to see people assume the worst of intentions of Muslims. There was a nasty post here (rightly deleted) claiming just that in regard to the Norway tragedy.

 

There is a lot of hatred out there posturing as religion. If you do nothing more than dismiss the Norwegian shooter as "not Christian" even though he, himself, clearly and strongly identifies as one, then you are simply playing ostrich. I think that when things like this happen, it should be a wake up call to do some serious examination of how the religion is truly operating and effecting people -- not how it SHOULD be, but how it actually IS right now.

 

:iagree:

You beat me to it. And much more kindly than I would have put it. Jesus probably wasn't a huge fan of hypocrisy any more than violence.

:iagree: I could add more, but I won't.

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This article shows how authentic his right-wing Christian views are.

 

Pro-Isreal? Check.

Pro- nationalism? Check.

Anti-marxism/liberalism? Check.

Anti-Islamic? Check.

 

He even has the "hate the sin, love the sinner" doctrine down pat, with his, "I have Muslim friends, I care very much about them" spiel.

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It is funny how this becomes the de facto response when someone does something horrid and uses the name of Christ to justify it. "Oh, he isn't really Christian." That's so convenient, isn't it? You can pretend he isn't a Christian, but he thinks he most certainly is. He was completely convinced and devout, in his opinion.

 

But, this is the same thing that Muslims have been trying to say about terrorists who use the name of Islam to justify their actions.

 

If one must extend grace to the Christian community for the actions of aberrants using the name of Jesus, then grace must also be extended to the Muslim community for the actions of aberrants using the name of Islam.

 

However, I continue to see people assume the worst of intentions of Muslims. There was a nasty post here (rightly deleted) claiming just that in regard to the Norway tragedy.

 

There is a lot of hatred out there posturing as religion. If you do nothing more than dismiss the Norwegian shooter as "not Christian" even though he, himself, clearly and strongly identifies as one, then you are simply playing ostrich. I think that when things like this happen, it should be a wake up call to do some serious examination of how the religion is truly operating and effecting people -- not how it SHOULD be, but how it actually IS right now.

 

Bravo! Well said... sad but so very true.

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It is funny how this becomes the de facto response when someone does something horrid and uses the name of Christ to justify it. "Oh, he isn't really Christian." That's so convenient, isn't it? You can pretend he isn't a Christian, but he thinks he most certainly is. He was completely convinced and devout, in his opinion.

 

But, this is the same thing that Muslims have been trying to say about terrorists who use the name of Islam to justify their actions.

 

If one must extend grace to the Christian community for the actions of aberrants using the name of Jesus, then grace must also be extended to the Muslim community for the actions of aberrants using the name of Islam.

 

However, I continue to see people assume the worst of intentions of Muslims. There was a nasty post here (rightly deleted) claiming just that in regard to the Norway tragedy.

 

There is a lot of hatred out there posturing as religion. If you do nothing more than dismiss the Norwegian shooter as "not Christian" even though he, himself, clearly and strongly identifies as one, then you are simply playing ostrich. I think that when things like this happen, it should be a wake up call to do some serious examination of how the religion is truly operating and effecting people -- not how it SHOULD be, but how it actually IS right now.

 

I would vehemently like to insert here that while the "masterminders" of 9-11 might have believed themselves to be Muslims then the actual executers were not praying and were womanizing, so no devoutness on their parts. Suicide and the taking of innocent (i. e. civilian and especially women and children)'s lives is a big sin as is having partners with God (if you think you make the rules, then you think you are a partner). Suffice it to say that no Muslims prays over those dead vandals.

 

It does not seem realistic to ban a religion because of the monstrous acts of some. About the Norwegian tragedy, then I am assuming he did not yell out that he was doing in in the sake of Christ as the hijackers did with Allahu Akbar, pretending the religion was standing up for them. All Norwegians are by defaults Christians (and tall, blue-eye and blonde, hehe). And btw, we do have quite a number of Norwegian converts to Islam so theoretically then he could have been such! The tragedy is horrible and we need to come together as a global community when stuff like this happens.

 

As an aside, then Muslims around the world are now fuming because they want to see Christianity being branded as a terrorist religion and war being fought against...I don't know, Santa Claus?? Seriously, lots of double-standards all around.

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It is funny how this becomes the de facto response when someone does something horrid and uses the name of Christ to justify it. "Oh, he isn't really Christian." That's so convenient, isn't it? You can pretend he isn't a Christian, but he thinks he most certainly is. He was completely convinced and devout, in his opinion.

 

But, this is the same thing that Muslims have been trying to say about terrorists who use the name of Islam to justify their actions.

 

If one must extend grace to the Christian community for the actions of aberrants using the name of Jesus, then grace must also be extended to the Muslim community for the actions of aberrants using the name of Islam.

 

However, I continue to see people assume the worst of intentions of Muslims. There was a nasty post here (rightly deleted) claiming just that in regard to the Norway tragedy.

 

There is a lot of hatred out there posturing as religion. If you do nothing more than dismiss the Norwegian shooter as "not Christian" even though he, himself, clearly and strongly identifies as one, then you are simply playing ostrich. I think that when things like this happen, it should be a wake up call to do some serious examination of how the religion is truly operating and effecting people -- not how it SHOULD be, but how it actually IS right now.

 

Aye, it's very sobering. I was raised in a very conservative Christian denomination. I constantly heard messages such as, "Let's take this nation back for God!" and "God's army is marching all over the nation!" Furthermore, I remember how sympathetically people who bombed abortion clinics were viewed, and even heard suggestions that they were heros for the pro-life movement. Lastly, there was always a very strong anti-government thread weaved into these messages, with a call to "take up arms for Christ" against the surrounding "culture of death."

 

I'm not going to argue that most people who say these things mean to actually physically harm others, or intend to inspire violence. But the reality is, when you add that kind of provocative language to teachings from a Bible that exalts a God who slays the heathen, commands his own people to kill, and makes the way for godly people to take over the land--when you feed that message to a mind that is unstable or paranoid, you get a dangerous individual.

 

That's why I condemn the use of violent or inflammatory language during church teachings and lessons. Because not every mind that absorbs the message is capable of divorcing metaphor from an assumed mandate from God.

 

I've heard a lot of people angry because they believe the Islamic community doesn't do enough to condemn violent attacks by Muslim extremists. Well, speaking as someone who was raised in a conservative Christian denomination, and whose family is still firmly entrenched in that tradition, I would like to offer up the same criticism towards Christian groups.

 

I'm tired of excuses from both Islamic and Christian apologists. Both faiths need to admit and own up to those aspects of their belief systems that promote violence. It's dishonest and disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

 

Wow. Well-stated! Exactly. You took the words right out of my mouth.

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