? about challenging ds

[Guest terryn]

Hi everyone. I have been lurking here for awhile, and finally registered, so I am hoping someone could help. I just started hs my son this past year and he completed first grade. We did FLL1, WWE, OPGTR, SWO, Hz math 1, SOTW ancients, RSO life, and some other random things. For thins coming year, I basically ordered the next level in things, and added in LOF elementary. I got all 4 leveles since I am not sure where to place him. My question is, are kids this age supposed to be challenged at all, or is everything supposed to be easy until they get to middle years? My son was not challenged at all, and everything came quite easy to him. We fought about math almost daily, but I think it was just a matter of his attention span, and him being bored with it. I am hoping LOF will help that. I am not sure if he is gifted or just smart. I am not concerned with knowing either way, I just don't want to hold him back. I have read some books on gifted children and he seems to fit the mold, but I am not sure. Do you all have any advice for me? Should I change up the curriculum/levels so he is challenged? Or should we just keep going the way we are? I have 3 more kids following him, so I need to figure this out :) Thanks in advance for your help.

[SnegurochkaL]

Hi, I think you need to let him exploring more things in early years. He needs to be challenged otherwise he will loose his interest to study. Does he like logic books/puzzles? I would supplement with those. I would suggest adding some more challenging math problems to your study which you can find in MEP or Singapore math Intensive practice.

 

MEP website:

http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mepres/primary/default.htm

[jenbrdsly]

Welcome!

I just got back from the SENG conference this past weekend, and the presenters talked over an over again about the importance of your child experiencing and recovering from failure at a young age. So yes, it is essential that a young child be challenged and not feel that everything comes too easily. You want to concentrate on building resilience. The whole: "Wow, you worked really hard on this." vs. "What a great job! You are so smart!".

http://teachingmybabytoread.blog.com/gifted/

[EKS]

What I did with my younger son at that age was to designate (in my mind) some subjects as challenging subjects and allow the rest to be easier. In kindergarten, I was just struggling to find where he was academically. In first grade I had figured that out, and made sure math, grammar, and reading were presented at a challenging level. He learned things in history and science because the material was new to him, but the output requirements weren't very challenging.

 

Things evolve--this past year (third grade) the challenging subjects were writing, literature, and science.

[EKS]

I just got back from the SENG conference this past weekend, and the presenters talked over an over again about the importance of your child experiencing and recovering from failure at a young age. So yes, it is essential that a young child be challenged and not feel that everything comes too easily. You want to concentrate on building resilience.

 

:iagree:

[LittleIzumi]

Challenge is really important!! Dd does NOT like reading or writing because they are her "hard" subjects. We've been working a little bit on that pretty much every day, and going back to the basics with HWoT, and now she is much easier to convince to actually read or write, and she is so proud of her new "beautiful letters" and "beautiful numbers" compared to before. I think gifted kids find a lot of things so easy that they really need us to push them to the level they are working at instead of staying at their age level where they just learn to do nothing. (That's what I learned in my stints in public school! You can do NOTHING and still get an A. :glare:) I realized dd wasn't being challenged in her math so we keep moving up--IP books for Singapore on her first level, jumping up to the next level in the regular book, having her teach me instead, using manipulatives for part of it instead of just the book, skipping sections that she obviously knows, moving up and up until she has something to sink her teeth into.

[Satori]

I highly value challenging the brain at any age. My dd6 and I work on 1000 piece puzzles together (she should probably start doing them on her own). We love logic games, puzzles and workbooks. She and I (as read-aloud) read books that are above her age level with challenging vocabulary.

 

My dd loves language arts, so we really accelerate those subjects and try to find stimulating programs. She's more normal in math, bright, but not exceptional, but recently is saying that math is her favorite subject because it is challenging. We recently started the IP/CWP books and more.

[Guest terryn]

Thank you so much. I have been thinking he should be challenged, but I wasn't sure as he is my oldest, and I don't want to push too hard. It's a tough balance! But I agree, since math and LA come so easily to him, I should find more challenging subject matter. We do have some logic type games, like Logic Links, and puzzles and things like that. I also got HWoT for this year and the new religion course from Peace Hill Press. So we do have new material this year, but I still feel it won't be enough. Do you think adding LOF will be enough or should I completely give up on Horizons and find another program altogether? He can't stand just doing problem after problem, it will bring tears. That's why I like the LOF idea. How do I know what is a good level to challenge him at?

[jenbrdsly]

Thank you so much. I have been thinking he should be challenged, but I wasn't sure as he is my oldest, and I don't want to push too hard. It's a tough balance! But I agree, since math and LA come so easily to him, I should find more challenging subject matter. We do have some logic type games, like Logic Links, and puzzles and things like that. I also got HWoT for this year and the new religion course from Peace Hill Press. So we do have new material this year, but I still feel it won't be enough. Do you think adding LOF will be enough or should I completely give up on Horizons and find another program altogether? He can't stand just doing problem after problem, it will bring tears. That's why I like the LOF idea. How do I know what is a good level to challenge him at?

 

 

Warning! :001_smile: I have very strong opinions about Horizons: http://teachingmybabytoread.blog.com/2011/05/01/horizons-math/

Here's what we do for math instead: http://teachingmybabytoread.blog.com/math/

[SnegurochkaL]

Hi, I don't have very high opinion about Horizon math. I don't consider it is challenging. Singapore + Miquon might be a good option for your bright child. Miquon will let him to explore math and Singapore will challenge him:001_smile:

 

My daughter was not a good artist 2 years ago and I didn't have enough time to teach her drawing. We used CW Primers which incorporated art study with a requirement to copy of several masterpieces of a particular author. Just by doing it, she learnt a lot about perspective, composition etc and her artistic performance has improved a lot.

 

I do "push" my bright/gifted child by reminding her that it is time to study instead of being consumed by an exciting book. My daughter doesn't like timed assignments, so we are trying to work on this part.

 

Even very young kids need to be challenged. They love it. When my 2 years old daughter saw her oldest siblings skating she wanted to try, but was afraid of ice. We made her to go there with us and now she doesn't want to leave it when we are done skating. She was challenged; first being quite unhappy and screaming, but now she cries when she is not allowed to skate. :lol:

[boscopup]

My main reason for homeschooling DS1 is that he wasn't being challenged at all in school. As a result, he was coasting through school, and I could tell it would continue through the high school years as it did for me. I wanted him to learn to work hard. That doesn't mean I pile on work that's not age appropriate, but I do give him work at the level he is.

 

So first stop... reading. We didn't do the dinky first grade readers that the school handed out (never did them while he was in school :tongue_smilie:). I handed him Charlotte's Web instead.

 

Next stop... math. We worked through the math materials quickly until we hit a spot that actually challenged him and/or was new material. Some things were new material but didn't take long to learn (like addition/subtraction with regrouping). So I made sure he understood the concepts, then moved on. Since January, we've done MM1B, 2A, 2B, 3A, and are almost done with 3B. We'll start 4A in September. No, we did not do all the problems or all the chapters even. Some things it was just obvious that we could skip. If we skip a chapter in MM, I usually have him do some corresponding problems in Singapore's IP and CWP books so he has practice in difficult problems using those concepts. This has worked really well for him, and he loves math again (they used Saxon 1 in school, which just about killed him AND me with boredom :glare:). We also use Zaccaro's Primary Grades Challenge Math, which is so much fun.

 

I also found that I needed to bump him up in grammar, because 1st and 2nd grade grammar are too simple. We're doing a 3rd grade grammar program, and it's a bit slow still, but better. At least he gets to diagram, which he likes (just like his mama :D). Next year, we'll use MCT for 3rd grade, and I think he'll really do well with that, since it frontloads the grammar.

 

In science, I'm using a textbook this year, so I went a grade level up. That's worked well.

 

It took me a bit to get used to accelerating through things. There's just no need to slog through material that the child fully understands already. I've found the easiest thing for me to do is to teach the material at the white board, then assign problems for practice. I do this both for math and grammar. That way, if I need to combine two lessons, I can do that while teaching, and it doesn't take any more time than doing one lesson. I don't combine quite as often in math now (we'll likely do just about everything in MM4, as there are more new topics), but I'm still combining in grammar some days. DS really enjoys school now that he's being challenged. He LOVES being homeschooled!

 

Just keep output ability in mind. While DS is reading books at an upper elementary to middle school level, I do not ask for middle school level literary analysis. I ask for lower elementary output, as that is where he is. We're still waiting for writing to physically catch up with his brain (it's coming along well - huge improvement from last year!).

 

Oh, and there is a difference between "pushing" a child and "keeping up with" a child. Don't push your child into things he's not developmentally ready for. It's perfectly fine to give him things that slightly challenge him, for which he is developmentally ready (even if the "average child" would not be ready for it).

[Guest terryn]

Wow, thanks again. All your advice is so helpful. It has to get easier with each child right? LOL. Jen, I read your blog about Horizons. Ihave to say, I agree with you. We did Horizons this past year and he flew through it. There was nothing in there that he had problems with. We started year 2 a few weeks ago, and the same thing. I picked Horizons because I felt it would be advanced enough for him. I thought it was supposed to be about 6 months ahead. But, with him being my oldest, I guess everything is new to me too, and we need to go through a lot of trial and error. So I am thinking I will keep Horizons just because I can occasionally drill him with some of the lessons, but I also purchased LOF, and I printed out some of year 1 and year 2 of MEP. I didn't realize it was free, even better! I looked at Singapore, and I think he would be ok in the 2A book. But what is the deal with Singapore? I know it is suppoed to be more advanced, but it seems like all bookwork, right? Even though he would be doing more challenging work, I'm afraid he would fight me on that. Should I try it? I am also getting MCT island. We are about halfway through FLL2, so I figure maybe in the next few weeks/months, we could move on the that. Any other advice is appreciated, I'm soaking it all up! Thanks again.

[LittleIzumi]

Wow, thanks again. All your advice is so helpful. It has to get easier with each child right? LOL. Jen, I read your blog about Horizons. Ihave to say, I agree with you. We did Horizons this past year and he flew through it. There was nothing in there that he had problems with. We started year 2 a few weeks ago, and the same thing. I picked Horizons because I felt it would be advanced enough for him. I thought it was supposed to be about 6 months ahead. But, with him being my oldest, I guess everything is new to me too, and we need to go through a lot of trial and error. So I am thinking I will keep Horizons just because I can occasionally drill him with some of the lessons, but I also purchased LOF, and I printed out some of year 1 and year 2 of MEP. I didn't realize it was free, even better! I looked at Singapore, and I think he would be ok in the 2A book. But what is the deal with Singapore? I know it is suppoed to be more advanced, but it seems like all bookwork, right? Even though he would be doing more challenging work, I'm afraid he would fight me on that. Should I try it? I am also getting MCT island. We are about halfway through FLL2, so I figure maybe in the next few weeks/months, we could move on the that. Any other advice is appreciated, I'm soaking it all up! Thanks again.

 

Singapore is AWESOME. There is the textbook & workbook, of course, and HIGs with instructions on SHOWING/playing with the concepts with rods & objects & such, and then there are the IPs (I loooooooooove the IPs), which give very advanced application of the principles, and the CWPs that give advanced word problem application. We mix it up with a 1A IP or the 1B textbook/workbook, depending on the day, and we play/show the concepts with Cuisinaire rods or with dice. It's very pictorial so it's not "workbooky." My visual dd LOVES it.

[jenbrdsly]

Wow, thanks again. All your advice is so helpful. It has to get easier with each child right? LOL. Jen, I read your blog about Horizons. Ihave to say, I agree with you. We did Horizons this past year and he flew through it. There was nothing in there that he had problems with. We started year 2 a few weeks ago, and the same thing. I picked Horizons because I felt it would be advanced enough for him. I thought it was supposed to be about 6 months ahead. But, with him being my oldest, I guess everything is new to me too, and we need to go through a lot of trial and error. So I am thinking I will keep Horizons just because I can occasionally drill him with some of the lessons, but I also purchased LOF, and I printed out some of year 1 and year 2 of MEP. I didn't realize it was free, even better! I looked at Singapore, and I think he would be ok in the 2A book. But what is the deal with Singapore? I know it is suppoed to be more advanced, but it seems like all bookwork, right? Even though he would be doing more challenging work, I'm afraid he would fight me on that. Should I try it? I am also getting MCT island. We are about halfway through FLL2, so I figure maybe in the next few weeks/months, we could move on the that. Any other advice is appreciated, I'm soaking it all up! Thanks again.

 

 

Right Start Level C, might be a way to go. We did that, and also Hoghton Mifflin Math Expression grade 2, but that was because of our public school situation. Here's my review of Right Start: http://teachingmybabytoread.blog.com/2011/06/14/review-right-start-level-c/

 

I haven't seen the new elementary LOF books, but we did fractions: http://teachingmybabytoread.blog.com/2011/06/06/too-many-algorithims-in-life-of-fred/

 

I think LOF Fractions is a good supplement, but only once a kid already has solid conceptual understanding.

 

If you do end up sticking with Horizons, you might try "being your kid's secretary" on some of the pages, and having your child tell you what to write. Or also, just cross out whole sections that are too repetitive and too much drill and kill.

 

Lots of people love Singapore, and I might have tried it too had I not already invested in Right Start. But I really, really love Right Start. We are going to do that with my daughter as soon as she is old enough.