s/o: How much do you care about modesty?

[Wabi Sabi]

I've noticed that the issue of modesty sure does seem to come up often on these boards. Am I really in the minority for just not giving a hoot about modesty? (Within reason of course, you're not going to find my family going about town in leather chaps, g-strings and pasties. :tongue_smilie:) Likewise, I can't say I've heard the issue of modesty come up at all in real life amongst my circle of friends and acquaintances.

 

If modesty is a concern for your family is it mostly due to religious reasons? Are there any non-religious families here who have strong feelings about remaining modest?

[greenvneck]

Not an issue here, nor among my IRL friends, but nobody I know homeschools for religious reasons.

[Slartibartfast]

It is super important to me that dd not wear shorts up to her buttcrack, no super short skirts or super low cut tops.

 

We do regular swimwear, regular clothes within reason, tank tops reasonable shorts. I am sure at least 50% of the board is more into modesty than I am.

[Mrs Mungo]

I think the modesty movement is ultimately anti-woman. Posts about not being able to do ballet or sports due to modesty concerns illustrate this.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Mrs Mungo
curse you, typo!

[Slartibartfast]

I think the modesty movement is ultimately anti-woman. Posts about not being able to do ballet or sports due to moesty concerns illustrate this.

 

Oh yeah...I forgot that bit.

 

My dd takes karate. She is preparing to test for her brown belt. She regularly wins "strongest punch" at the karate tourneys. *super proud!!*

[Lady Florida.]

We don't care about it nor do we know anyone IRL who does. We aren't religious and neither are most of our friends.

[snickelfritz]

It is super important to me that dd not wear shorts up to her buttcrack, no super short skirts or super low cut tops.

 

We do regular swimwear, regular clothes within reason, tank tops reasonable shorts. I am sure at least 50% of the board is more into modesty than I am.

 

 

I think the modesty movement is ultimately anti-woman. Posts about not being able to do ballet or sports due to moesty concerns illustrate this.

:iagree: I stress appropriate dress for appropriate activities. Reasonable swimsuits are appropriate for swimming (we do 2 pieces, but not string bikinis), because the girls play hard when they swim. When she no longer runs and plays during free time, we'll consider a modest heel on shoes. It's never appropriate for shorts or skirts to be so short your underwear shows. Etc...

 

My dd's occasionally do dance. I have NO problem with traditional dance wear. I do have an issue with the hot pants/sports bra combo that is extremely popular now.

[Impish]

I think the modesty movement is ultimately anti-woman. Posts about not being able to do ballet or sports due to moesty concerns illustrate this.

For us, its exactly the opposite of anti-woman.

 

I want my kids to know that women don't have to dress as s*x objects to be noticed. How many of us tell our kids its whats inside that counts?

 

To me, dressing like a piece of meat on the menu is devaluing women, not dressing so that your bits are covered.

[catz]

I dress somewhat modestly mainly because I've gained weight since having kids! :D I wore mini skirts and bikinis in my day. But not until I was probably 16 or 17. I'm not homeschooling for religious reasons and we're not Christian.

 

I prefer my daughter who just turned 7, to dress like a 7 year old. There are some really trampy looking clothes out there for little girls and I hate pants that show butts when kids bend over. I like Hanna Andersson quite a bit when I can afford it! My daughter dances ballet and taps and both kids do sports and circus arts. My kids wear "normal" swim suits!

 

So while my kids are kids, I prefer they dress their age. But as they get closer to adult age, if they want to get a little spicy with their clothing choices, I'm fine with it within reason!

Edited July 18, 2011 by kck

[Skadi]

We're an atheist family, and we are concerned about modesty. In large part, it is about intention -- we think it's extremely important to be honest with ourselves about why we dress a certain way, as well as the kind of attention it will attract from other people. Another consideration that led us to be conscious of modesty is that we feel that our culture is trying to "grow up" children too fast. We also want to instill our children with the confidence that they can be attractive without having to bare skin. I find the sexualizing of young girls more anti-woman than modesty, and I think it's interesting that people get their hackles up about modesty being anti-woman, when it's such a tiny, tiny minority in our country (whereas the sexualization of women is virtually EVERYWHERE).

Edited July 18, 2011 by Skadi

[texasmama]

People define modesty quite differently, I think.

 

I don't want to see short shorts, cleavage or skin tight "leaves nothing to the imagination" clothing on my teen dd...or myself, for that matter, though at my age this would mostly be scary and not provocative.:tongue_smilie:

 

It bothers me to see teens in skimpy bikinis, mostly because I know that teen boys/men will take home these visual images. I don't want that for my dd or any other young woman.

 

I can't imagine not participating in sports, dance or gymnastics due to modesty, though.

[kalanamak]

The modesty talked about here I don't really care about. I think more of manners in dress. Camel-hooves are just not for daily ware. The whole world should not be subjected to your genitalia. Culture after culture supports this notion, even those that wear little.

[NicAnn]

Modesty is important for us. It was before I was a religious person, and is now even more since I've found my religion.

 

I don't view it as anti-women at all! Quite the opposite in fact. I never felt like a woman before when I was wearing mainstream fashions. Now that I am almost all skirts and modest blouses, I feel soooo much more like a woman! Love it.

[texasmama]

I also agree with pp's regarding the "growing up" of little girls. I love Gymboree for that reason. They mostly sell cutesy little girl clothing, not something that you might see at the local high school on teens.

[Plucky]

We can do tank tops that aren't too revealing. I love the layering that is in style with tanks. Not too short, no tube tops, we like to keep the belly covered, nothing sheer without an appropriate layer below, and tankinis here.

 

There is a time for sexy and when you are a kid that is not the time. Sexy is even sexier when it is just with the one you love.

[swellmomma]

Modesty is important to me but not for religious reasons. It is important to me because a) the impression wearing trashy/skimpy clothing gives others. It is pretty hard to take someone seriously when they are in skin tight, barely there clothes. b) safety issues, if someone thinks you are advertising they may not take no as an answer kwim c) my little girls should be dressed like little girls ready to go out and play, not dressed like tramps ready to work the corner.

 

So for us miniskirts, short-shorts, crop tops, bikini's etc are not acceptable.

 

ETA: I don't prevent the kids, particularily the girls from participating in sports. DD was on swim team this year. Last year she was a cheerleader. I made a point of picking the team that had tops that were longer (no belly's hanging out) and she loved it. She wears shorts, like she is at camp this week, but I do have a minimum requirement of length being no shorter than mid-thigh. That way she can run and jump and climb trees still both with full movement and without flashing everyone around her.

Edited July 18, 2011 by swellmomma

[NicAnn]

For us, its exactly the opposite of anti-woman.

 

I want my kids to know that women don't have to dress as s*x objects to be noticed. How many of us tell our kids its whats inside that counts?

 

To me, dressing like a piece of meat on the menu is devaluing women, not dressing so that your bits are covered.

 

Yes, totally agree!

 

We're an atheist family, and we are concerned about modesty. In large part, it is about intention -- we think it's extremely important to be honest with ourselves about why we dress a certain way, as well as the kind of attention it will attract from other people. Another consideration that led us to be conscious of modesty is that we feel that our culture is trying to "grow up" children too fast.

 

I love this. Yes, we are not honest about why we dress the way we do (We meaning American women). We want to be viewed as sex objects. We want children to aspire to this.

 

The modesty talked about here I don't really care about. I think more of manners in dress. Camel-hooves are just not for daily ware. The whole world should not be subjected to your genitalia. Culture after culture supports this notion, even those that wear little.

 

Quoted just for the bolded. That made me laugh out loud!

[snickelfritz]

 

Camel-hooves are just not for daily ware. The whole world should not be subjected to your genitalia.

:lol::iagree::iagree::iagree:

[cuckoomamma]

Having been a very immodest young person, I'm very concerned about my little girls looking age appropriate. Both our girls are in dance and acrobatics. I just feel sad when I see little girls wearing "booty shorts" and writing across their bottoms. I'm another fan of Gymbo and Hanna.

 

Oh, and it's not for religious reasons.

[hsbaby]

I don't concern myself too much with it. I mean, I wouldn't allow body parts falling out of clothes, but we don't avoid shorts, two pieces, or tank tops.

[snickelfritz]

I don't view it as anti-women at all! Quite the opposite in fact. I never felt like a woman before when I was wearing mainstream fashions. Now that I am almost all skirts and modest blouses, I feel soooo much more like a woman! Love it.

 

But what Mungo was talking about was when it prevents girls from participating in sports. Some of the modesty swim suits would be VERY difficult to swim in. I saw a family picture on a blog a couple of years ago with the boys in standard trunks and no shirts. The girls were in modesty swim dresses past their knees. I thought the unfairness was glaring. How do you swim with that much fabric wrapping around your legs? I swim in a tankini/men's swim trunk combo that is modest AND functional.

[YLVD]

I've noticed that the issue of modesty sure does seem to come up often on these boards. Am I really in the minority for just not giving a hoot about modesty? (Within reason of course, you're not going to find my family going about town in leather chaps, g-strings and pasties. :tongue_smilie:) Likewise, I can't say I've heard the issue of modesty come up at all in real life amongst my circle of friends and acquaintances.

 

If modesty is a concern for your family is it mostly due to religious reasons? Are there any non-religious families here who have strong feelings about remaining modest?

 

It's something I've never thought about, tbh. I'm an atheist though, as is my family and all of my friends. It just isn't a concern.

 

That said, my DD was somehow born modest! She's 15 and dresses VERY modest. I'm not sure why.

[YLVD]

I think the modesty movement is ultimately anti-woman. Posts about not being able to do ballet or sports due to moesty concerns illustrate this.

 

:iagree:

 

Thanks for saying this as I was going to but didn't want to offend. I find it anti-woman as well.

 

I'll take it further and say that it's a way of almost punishing women because of the actions of men.

[6packofun]

I agree. It's anti-woman to want your dds to be noticed for more than boobs hanging out or for her butt because her pants have something written on the seat? You'd think that the girls not trying to get attention for their physicality (and sensuality--prematurely to boot) would be seen as strong. Such an interesting world we live in! LOL

 

I edited to add that true modesty, IMO, is not the *other* extreme, either, which also brings unwanted and/or negative attention--for example, wearing a potato sack to the beach.

Edited July 18, 2011 by 6packofun
add

[YLVD]

But what Mungo was talking about was when it prevents girls from participating in sports. Some of the modesty swim suits would be VERY difficult to swim in. I saw a family picture on a blog a couple of years ago with the boys in standard trunks and no shirts. The girls were in modesty swim dresses past their knees. I thought the unfairness was glaring. How do you swim with that much fabric wrapping around your legs? I swim in a tankini/men's swim trunk combo that is modest AND functional.

 

Yep

 

I'm a swimmer. I can't swim in a dress.

[Lovemyblessings]

I find it becoming more of an issue for me than it used to be. I see so many pretty girls wearing so little these days, and it just makes me' want to say: "Don't you know your value? You don't need such revealing clothes- people will still see your beauty." yeah, I know- teens have their own ideas of what's attractive. I was the same. I don't have girls, so I don't have to police the issue much- my boys are naturally modest.

[YLVD]

For us, its exactly the opposite of anti-woman.

 

I want my kids to know that women don't have to dress as s*x objects to be noticed. How many of us tell our kids its whats inside that counts?

 

To me, dressing like a piece of meat on the menu is devaluing women, not dressing so that your bits are covered.

 

I'm not trying to attack your opinion. However, why is the focus always on the females? The focus should be on the men that are looking at women as pieces of meat, yes?

[Impish]

But what Mungo was talking about was when it prevents girls from participating in sports. Some of the modesty swim suits would be VERY difficult to swim in. I saw a family picture on a blog a couple of years ago with the boys in standard trunks and no shirts. The girls were in modesty swim dresses past their knees. I thought the unfairness was glaring. How do you swim with that much fabric wrapping around your legs? I swim in a tankini/men's swim trunk combo that is modest AND functional.

I don't have a problem with appropriate wear for sports. That being said, my kids aren't going to be wearing string bikinis or thongs. (Yes, the thong applies to the guys too! :lol:) I do think, however, that a suit can be found that is functional but doesn't have personal bits in danger of falling out.

I agree. It's anti-woman to want your dds to be noticed for more than boobs hanging out or for her butt because her pants have something written on the seat? You'd think that the girls not trying to get attention for their physicality (and sensuality--prematurely to boot) would be seen as strong. Such an interesting world we live in! LOL

:iagree:

[YLVD]

I agree. It's anti-woman to want your dds to be noticed for more than boobs hanging out or for her butt because her pants have something written on the seat? You'd think that the girls not trying to get attention for their physicality (and sensuality--prematurely to boot) would be seen as strong. Such an interesting world we live in! LOL

 

I edited to add that true modesty, IMO, is not the *other* extreme, either, which also brings unwanted and/or negative attention--for example, wearing a potato sack to the beach.

 

You aren't actually addressing what we said. It's anti women in several ways, especially when it comes to swimming and sports.

[Pamela H in Texas]

(I knew I couldn't shut up the rest of the night so I wouldn't hit 6000 posts)

 

My original reasons:

 

1) thinking it was right to be decently modest.

2) wanting to prevent my daughter from using clothing to accentuate her body in ways that encourage male attention (the way her mother did as a preteen/teen)

 

However, I wasn't ultra-modest or anything. It was just basic stuff.

 

Then I did add some religious components. At one time, I went haywire with it. Somehow, for me, it translated into frumpy. I think I had something in mind (actually, based on a friend whose family was involved with ATI), but it didn't work out very well. At that time, I even considered head coverings for my daughter and me. Hubby wasn't thrilled about that idea.

 

In time, I tried to become more reasonable. I would guess I'm part of the more modest (but certainly not most modest) on the board and I do believe it is important. We don't show cleavage. We don't wear skin-tight anything. I wouldn't wear short shorts. But my skirt falls mid-shin. I wear jeans (preferably capris). I buy my clothes at thrift shops and Dress Barn mostly. I wear a pretty normal bathing suit (thankfully, more modest is partially in style).

 

Now, on the prom dress thread, my 5yr old was interested in looking when I told my daughter about it. So we looked. She thought it was cute (it was). I asked her if she knew why I would say no if she was 15 (or if she asked my opinion when she's 25). She didn't, so we went through it. We then googled prom dresses. She loved looking at them (she's a real girly girl); and we talked about what was right and wrong about them. She was able to find some very nice ones and could think "oh, that one would be nice if it....." I figure we have a few years to keep working on her, but she has a good start going :)

 

Anyway, I definitely think what God thinks about it is important. However, I think I still, as I'm starting over with a little girl, probably have "don't attract male attention in that way" as my number one reason.

 

BTW, my 18yr old is much more conservative than I am. It's funny. One day, we were dress shopping with my mom and my mom is much less conservative than me. We seem to be backwards, I think. Strange that Grandma is the least conservative of our bunch :)

 

ETA: I think dressing modestly is PRO-woman. It's about being feminine and encouraging people to respect you for who you are. Additionally, I do think that balance is in order. I was a dancer and still don't have an issue with anything we wore for the sport. However, I have seen some more modern dance outfits I think are problematic. But for most real sports, the outfits are (or can be) appropriate enough. There is a difference between sport and walking through the mall, imo.

Edited July 18, 2011 by 2J5M9K

[I.Dup.]

For us, its exactly the opposite of anti-woman.

 

I want my kids to know that women don't have to dress as s*x objects to be noticed. How many of us tell our kids its whats inside that counts?

 

To me, dressing like a piece of meat on the menu is devaluing women, not dressing so that your bits are covered.

 

Absolutely!! I think letting our daughters follow the current trends of skin tight, boobs and butt hanging out is extremely degrading to them as individuals (coming from someone who has always been immodest and looked for attention in all the wrong places, lol) I'm trying to be much more careful for the sake of my daughter, she is worth so much more than that.

[Mrs Mungo]

We're an atheist family, and we are concerned about modesty. In large part, it is about intention -- we think it's extremely important to be honest with ourselves about why we dress a certain way, as well as the kind of attention it will attract from other people. Another consideration that led us to be conscious of modesty is that we feel that our culture is trying to "grow up" children too fast. We also want to instill our children with the confidence that they can be attractive without having to bare skin. I find the sexualizing of young girls more anti-woman than modesty, and I think it's interesting that people get their hackles up about modesty being anti-woman, when it's such a tiny, tiny minority in our country (whereas the sexualization of women is virtually EVERYWHERE).

 

I agree. It's anti-woman to want your dds to be noticed for more than boobs hanging out or for her butt because her pants have something written on the seat? You'd think that the girls not trying to get attention for their physicality (and sensuality--prematurely to boot) would be seen as strong. Such an interesting world we live in! LOL

 

I think some of us are working with different definitions of modesty and what it means. My girls dress appropriate for their age. They wear normal swimsuits. They don't wear bikinis *or* something that might drown them in a rough ocean. If their skirts are a little short, then they wear leggings under them. But, they can wear shorts and skirts above the knee. They don't have to wear shorts up their buttcrack to participate in tennis, but a skirt that wraps around their knees is not a good choice from an athletic perspective. You can't swim laps efficiently in culottes *or* with your boobs hanging out.

 

But what Mungo was talking about was when it prevents girls from participating in sports. Some of the modesty swim suits would be VERY difficult to swim in. I saw a family picture on a blog a couple of years ago with the boys in standard trunks and no shirts. The girls were in modesty swim dresses past their knees. I thought the unfairness was glaring. How do you swim with that much fabric wrapping around your legs? I swim in a tankini/men's swim trunk combo that is modest AND functional.

 

Exactly.

[Impish]

I'm not trying to attack your opinion. However, why is the focus always on the females? The focus should be on the men that are looking at women as pieces of meat, yes?

I didn't specify which gender of my children were being taught this, b/c they all are. I won't buy my son's pants that have their butt crack showing either.

 

I can't influence the general population. All I can do is raise my kids with the views we hold important, and explain the reasoning behind it.

 

I honestly don't think that refusing to buy my kids clothing that would have bits on display is a big deal. Hard to find, yes, but we manage.

[LibraryLover]

My dds are very modest by nature. My boys are not ones to be flashy. I will wear tank dresses (Title IX type stuff) and shorter skirts & skorts in summer etc., but nothing flashy. I will dress up a bit, show a little cleavage etc when dh and I go out dancing or to a club. He likes heels etc. I'm fine with that and it's rather fun. Nothing too crazy, of course. :)

Edited July 18, 2011 by LibraryLover

[YLVD]

I think some of us are working with different definitions of modesty and what it means. My girls dress appropriate for their age. They wear normal swimsuits. They don't wear bikinis *or* something that might drown them in a rough ocean. If their skirts are a little short, then they wear leggings under them. But, they can wear shorts and skirts above the knee. They don't have to wear shorts up their buttcrack to participate in tennis, but a skirt that wraps around their knees is not a good choice from an athletic perspective. You can't swim laps efficiently in culottes *or* with your boobs hanging out.

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

:iagree:

 

Dressing age appropriate is best, I see modesty as a whole different thing

[YLVD]

I didn't specify which gender of my children were being taught this, b/c they all are. I won't buy my son's pants that have their butt crack showing either.

 

I can't influence the general population. All I can do is raise my kids with the views we hold important, and explain the reasoning behind it.

 

I honestly don't think that refusing to buy my kids clothing that would have bits on display is a big deal. Hard to find, yes, but we manage.

 

I have an extremely modest 15 yr old and certainly don't show off my goodies on the regular.

 

The focus is on girls here, and we all know that. No one will ever answer the question of making boys accountable for making girls feel that way.

[Mrs Mungo]

I will wear tank dresses (Title IX type stuff) and shorter skirts & skorts in summer etc.

 

I love their dresses, but the people who are extremely concerned with modesty would never wear something like that.

[Wabi Sabi]

I should note that while I'm not really concerned about modesty at all, my dd mostly wears dresses and skirts (she has a particular affinity for those striped Hanna Andersson dresses.) We both wear one piece swimsuits (although mine is strapless) and I refuse to buy anything with slogans written across the rear end- not out of modestly, but just because I find them tacky. I can't wear a short, strapless dress because it wouldn't work for my body type and it's just not my personal style, but I see no problem with others wearing such things if it works for them. Age appropriateness, comfort, function, and practicality are our main priorities in choosing clothing. Modesty? Not so much a concern.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Wabi Sabi

[LibraryLover]

I love their dresses, but the people who are extremely concerned with modesty would never wear something like that.

 

 

Then I am not very modest. I also wear tankinis that are not a one piece. ;) I don't really get into all of that. If a middle aged guy is going to stray because he saw a decent looking middle- aged woman in a knee length tank dress from Title IX, he has big problems. I'm just glad I am not married to a such a person.

Edited July 18, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Word Nerd]

I don't consider myself overly concerned with modesty, but I don't have an "anything goes" view of clothing either. Clothes that are revealing and leave little to the imagination are out.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

I have an extremely modest 15 yr old and certainly don't show off my goodies on the regular.

 

The focus is on girls here, and we all know that. No one will ever answer the question of making boys accountable for making girls feel that way.

 

How are my 13 and 14 year old boys "making girls feel that way"? Please enlighten me.

[Joker]

I was too concerned with modesty when my oldest was young and it backfired. She doesn't even want to wear a dress and she's uncomfortable in most clothes. I know she must have heard me saying how certain people, actors and/or dolls were innapropriately dressed and not covered up and she took it to the extreme. I'm having to work extra hard to repair the damage I unknowingly did. I have serious, frequent talks with her about how there is nothing wrong with female bodies and curves are normal. I'm trying to make sure my younger dd has a good variety of clothes - tanks, v-necks, shorts shorther than knee length, etc. I don't want her "goods" hanging out but I wish she were more comfortable with herself.

[Mrs Mungo]

Then I am not very modest. I also wear tankinis that are not a one piece.

 

Me either. I even wear bikini tops with my skirted bottom to the beach. That's what I'm saying. All normal sense of the word "modesty" (not going around with all of your bits hanging out) has been replaced with something else. Can we come up with a new turn of phrase? :)

[YLVD]

How are my 13 and 14 year old boys "making girls feel that way"? Please enlighten me.

 

Others in the thread are not wanting their girls, or themselves, being seen as pieces of meat. The focus is on women and modesty. If the premise is for girls not to be treated or viewed as meat, etc, wouldn't it be men doing that?

[HRAAB]

I don't get too worked up over modesty. I like to think we use common sense when we dress. We dress appropriate for where we are going and for our age. I could care less if my girls are showing some skin (midriff, legs, shoulders), but I don't like to see young girls wearing padded, push-up bras or super tight tees with sexy comments across the top.

 

Also, I think there is more to modesty that the way someone dresses such as their speech, movements, etc.

[Mrs Mungo]

How are my 13 and 14 year old boys "making girls feel that way"? Please enlighten me.

 

Have you seen this site? Over a third of boys felt that swimsuit ties sticking out of the top of your shirt is "a stumbling block." These are the sorts of things that are setting girls up for being responsible for the feelings of boys. It has nothing to do with your specific sons.

[Plucky]

Have you seen this site? Over a third of boys felt that swimsuit ties sticking out of the top of your shirt is "a stumbling block." These are the sorts of things that are setting girls up for being responsible for the feelings of boys. It has nothing to do with your specific sons.

 

I think that survey is just for a certain segment of the population that is very sensitive to modesty. I am going to show my son that and ask him what he thinks. I don't think this is a good reflection of our society at large.

[Barb_]

Modesty becomes anti-female when it's about restrictions on activity or comfort because of her sex. If the venue is appropriate for my son to run around shirtless, it's appropriate for my 12yo to wear a halter or bikini top, IMO. I saw this poor young girl last weekend in the city wearing a long skirt, long sleeved shirt, socks, shoes, and headcovering in 90+ degree weather while her brothers were running around in shorts, t's and flip flops.

 

On a similar note, a neighbor once had a conniption fit because her daughter and my three girls were laying on the pavement on their towels to dry off after playing in the sprinkler. They were all between the ages of 4 and 7 and the pavement was warm. :confused: She said they weren't acting modestly.

 

There are degrees. The far end is the problem.

[LibraryLover]

Have you seen this site? Over a third of boys felt that swimsuit ties sticking out of the top of your shirt is "a stumbling block." These are the sorts of things that are setting girls up for being responsible for the feelings of boys. It has nothing to do with your specific sons.

 

 

That's sad. Everything is wrong. Masturbation is wrong. Sex before marraige is wrong. Thinking about boobs and bums is the work of the devil. We are turning these poor normal boys into guilty sex maniacs with this garbage. Beat it man, just beat it. Get it over with.

Edited July 18, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Mrs Mungo]

I think that survey is just for a certain segment of the population that is very sensitive to modesty. I am going to show my son that and ask him what he thinks. I don't think this is a good reflection of our society at large.

 

Oh, I agree with you. Those are the people I'm talking about, not society at large.

 

Modesty becomes anti-female when it's about restrictions on activity or comfort because of her sex. If the venue is appropriate for my son to run around shirtless, it's appropriate for my 12yo to wear a halter or bikini top, IMO. I saw this poor young girl last weekend in the city wearing a long skirt, long sleeved shirt, socks, shoes, and headcovering in 90+ degree weather while her brothers were running around in shorts, t's and flip flops.

 

On a similar note, a neighbor once had a conniption fit because her daughter and my three girls were laying on the pavement on their towels to dry off after playing in the sprinkler. They were all between the ages of 4 and 7 and the pavement was warm. :confused: She said they weren't acting modestly.

 

There are degrees. The far end is the problem.

 

I agree.

 

As an aside, I am already on record as having a problem with words across the butt. ;)