Grains vs Carbs

[WishboneDawn]

Okay, so my understanding is that processed/refined grains = carbs = sugar = calories. Whole grains = fibre = less calories.

 

Is this right? Because I see grains and carbs getting equated with each other a lot on these boards when it ain't (maybe) always so. I thought it was the processing of grains that made more of them accessible to our digestive systems and led to us getting more carbs from them. Do those on no or low carb diets also stay away from things like whole grain cereals?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Technically carbs = carbohydrates. Vegetables have carbohydrates, so do fruits and grains. Grains and starchy carbohydrates just tend to have higher carb counts. Whole grains do include more fiber.

 

Why do you want to be low carb? If it is for controlling your blood sugar, then both whole wheat and non whole wheat are converted into sugar pretty much the same way. Some low carb whole wheat bread is higher in protein though and that influences how fast the carbs are metabolized. The higher the fiber content then it can influence how fast the carbs are metabolized also.

 

Lower calories has not led to my weight loss. Lower blood sugar has.

[WishboneDawn]

Technically carbs = carbohydrates. Vegetables have carbohydrates, so do fruits and grains. Grains and starchy carbohydrates just tend to have higher carb counts. Whole grains do include more fiber.

 

That I get. I just thought whole grains had less carbs accessible to us because they were unrefined. You'd get more carbs from a cup of flour then a cup of wheat for instance because the carbs in the wheat would be locked up in the fibre. Or maybe the fibre bit is just left out when making the flour?

 

Why do you want to be low carb?

 

I don't. :) I was just sitting down eating a bowl of hot whole grain cereal and thinking, "Garsh, if I ever had to go lw-carb would I have to give this up?" :D

Edited July 14, 2011 by WishboneDawn

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

 

I don't. :) I was just sitting down eating a bowl of hot whole grain cereal and thinking, "Garsh, if I ever had to go lw-carb would I have to give this up?" :D

 

:lol: Then it depends on HOW low carb you had to go. I'm lower carb than normal because of trying to manage my blood sugar levels. But I can still have small amounts as long as it is combined with protein and fat.

[Momof3littles]

Typing w/ nursing babe in arms-

 

The fiber in whole grains will often slow the release of sugar. Carb-sensitive individuals may still see their sugars climb too high and can see the impact via blood sugar testing or via how they feel afterward.

 

Again, I think of it as a continuum. If you aren't carb sensitive, perhaps whole grains will work for you. For many of those who are carb sensitive, that spike in sugar still happens. It might be slowed or delayed, but it still occurs. The more insulin your body pumps out to deal with the spike in blood sugar, the less sensitive to insulin your cells become over time.

 

That's why I don't feel whole grains are as wonderful as they are hyped up to be. The "benefit" is that there is some fiber in there to slow the spike as compared to a processed grain. But that spike can be detrimental to many people who are carb/grain sensitive. IMO it isn't that whole grains are all that beneficial, they are just "less bad" than a refined grain (if we are going to assume people are going to eat grains). I think there are also more carb/grain sensitive folks out there than people realize.

Edited July 14, 2011 by Momof3littles

[Momof3littles]

That I get. I just thought whole grains had less carbs accessible to us because they were unrefined. You'd get more carbs from a cup of flour then a cup of flour for instance because the carbs in the wheat would be locked up in the fibre. Or maybe the fibre bit is just left out when making the flour?

 

 

 

I don't. :) I was just sitting down eating a bowl of hot whole grain cereal and thinking, "Garsh, if I ever had to go lw-carb would I have to give this up?" :D

 

Some people make LC hot cereals out of things like flax or nuts/seeds ground up.

[ktgrok]

Okay, so my understanding is that processed/refined grains = carbs = sugar = calories. Whole grains = fibre = less calories.

 

Is this right? Because I see grains and carbs getting equated with each other a lot on these boards when it ain't (maybe) always so. I thought it was the processing of grains that made more of them accessible to our digestive systems and led to us getting more carbs from them. Do those on no or low carb diets also stay away from things like whole grain cereals?

 

Many whole wheat, whole grain products have more impact on blood sugar than you would realize. The fiber doesn't lock up the carbs, but it does slow the absorption. It doesn't stop it though, you still GET all those carbs. Just slightly more slowly.

[kitten18]

Okay, so my understanding is that processed/refined grains = carbs = sugar = calories. Whole grains = fibre = less calories.

 

Is this right? Because I see grains and carbs getting equated with each other a lot on these boards when it ain't (maybe) always so. I thought it was the processing of grains that made more of them accessible to our digestive systems and led to us getting more carbs from them. Do those on no or low carb diets also stay away from things like whole grain cereals?

I think you're right. That's why some people who eat low/lower carbs can eat steel cut oats, the carbs are not as accessible. I could have a small amount of oats, mixed with walnuts, pecans, etc., but everyone has a different insulin response to things. I use nut flours for baking because they have more fiber, protein, and fat, less carbs, less impact on blood sugar.

[meggie]

No, carbs and protein have 4 calories per gram. Fat has 9 calories per gram. Processed carbs like white flour are converted to sugar quickly. Whole wheat flour has fiber and a little oil (fat) that can slow down the conversion process a little, but it will still be converted to sugar.

 

As far as satiety goes, I've heard that protein, fiber, and fat will help keep a body satisfied longer. So in our meals, I try to have a healthy balance of all three. Not too much fat, but a little bit of the "good fat". Lean protein (so as not to get too much fat). And a good amount of fiber. For my family, I've found it works pretty well.

[meggie]

oh and fiber is considered a carb, so when you look at a cup of white flour and it has XX amount of carbs and a cup of whole wheat flour, there's not less carbs because the fibrous part is taking up space. It's all the same.

Edited July 14, 2011 by meggie

[Cheryl in NM]

Okay, so my understanding is that processed/refined grains = carbs = sugar = calories. Whole grains = fibre = less calories.

 

Is this right? Because I see grains and carbs getting equated with each other a lot on these boards when it ain't (maybe) always so. I thought it was the processing of grains that made more of them accessible to our digestive systems and led to us getting more carbs from them. Do those on no or low carb diets also stay away from things like whole grain cereals?

 

I think the difference is whole grains = fiber = less calories, but we've been raised to think of Wonder Bread as a grain.

 

Something I recently learned is that whole grains contain protein. Also, that the grains our grandparents ate contained more protein than the whole grains we eat now.

[WishboneDawn]

oh and fiber is considered a carb, so when you look at a cup of white flour and it has XX amount of carbs and a cup of whole wheat flour, there's not less carbs because the fibrous part is taking up space. It's all the same.

 

I guess I don't mean that there's less carbs but less accessible to us. That the carbs in the fibre, um...Get the whole tour. Come out the other end. :o

[WishboneDawn]

I think the difference is whole grains = fiber = less calories, but we've been raised to think of Wonder Bread as a grain.

 

My big disappointment was when I learned whole wheat bread isn't all that and even many of the commercial whole grain cereals (oops...I meant bread) I love aren't truly whole grain. They're more regular white or whole wheat flour with some whole grain bits mixed back in.

 

Something I recently learned is that whole grains contain protein. Also, that the grains our grandparents ate contained more protein than the whole grains we eat now.

 

I do know that my whole grain cereal fills me up more then my oatmeal made from rolled oats. Haven't found any steel-cut oats locally to try them.

Edited July 14, 2011 by WishboneDawn

[Crimson Wife]

If you do the 40/30/30 ratio of carbs/protein/fat, that usually translates to about 150 grams of carbs per day. I find that I can lose weight on that ratio so long as those carbs come mostly from low-glycemic veggies with moderate intake of fruit and whole grains.

 

I lose weight faster on a lower-carb diet but get very irritable and can have difficulty thinking straight. Not something I care to sustain for long.

[Momof3littles]

If you do the 40/30/30 ratio of carbs/protein/fat, that usually translates to about 150 grams of carbs per day. I find that I can lose weight on that ratio so long as those carbs come mostly from low-glycemic veggies with moderate intake of fruit and whole grains.

 

I lose weight faster on a lower-carb diet but get very irritable and can have difficulty thinking straight. Not something I care to sustain for long.

When I eat carbs, even whole grains, I get brain fog. Highly unpleasant.

[WishboneDawn]

Doublepost

[WishboneDawn]

...but the bulk of the item is non digestible fiber (so it basically goes right through).

 

Now THAT'S what I talkin' about! :)

[WishboneDawn]

Have you tried Dreamfield's pasta? Oh man I am so thrilled I can tolerate this product. It is one of those "mostly goes right through" things. It tastes exactly like the real thing too. Some people get some rumbly in their tumbly from it, but it doesn't bother me at all. And it's guilt free!!!

 

I haven't really tried anything. I'm just at the curious point right now but I think I really need to do some homework to see if I need to work on my diet any. I DO know there are issues with diverticulitis in the family so adding fibre is good but that's about it.

 

Lots of the recent discussions have got me curious.

[Joanne]

Typing w/ nursing babe in arms-

 

The fiber in whole grains will often slow the release of sugar. Carb-sensitive individuals may still see their sugars climb too high and can see the impact via blood sugar testing or via how they feel afterward.

 

Again, I think of it as a continuum. If you aren't carb sensitive, perhaps whole grains will work for you. For many of those who are carb sensitive, that spike in sugar still happens. It might be slowed or delayed, but it still occurs. The more insulin your body pumps out to deal with the spike in blood sugar, the less sensitive to insulin your cells become over time.

 

That's why I don't feel whole grains are as wonderful as they are hyped up to be. The "benefit" is that there is some fiber in there to slow the spike as compared to a processed grain. But that spike can be detrimental to many people who are carb/grain sensitive. IMO it isn't that whole grains are all that beneficial, they are just "less bad" than a refined grain (if we are going to assume people are going to eat grains). I think there are also more carb/grain sensitive folks out there than people realize.

 

:iagree: My sister is less carb-sensitive (less insulin resistent). She was able to lose a considerable amount of weight, and maintain that loss on a healthy, "balanced" weight watchers plan.

 

I can't do weight watchers; it gain, don't lose, and am grumpy and irritable.

[Cheryl in NM]

My big disappointment was when I learned whole wheat bread isn't all that and even many of the commercial whole grain cereals I love aren't truly whole grain. They're more regular white or whole wheat flour with some whole grain bits mixed back in.

 

 

I know! That was a big bummer for me too!

 

 

On another note:

When you consume fiber with your carbs the fiber slows down the absorption of the carbs into your bloodstream. I don't think the previous posted said it made the carbs go away. This is why vegetables are considered good for you even though they have carbs. The higher the glycemic index the greater the impact on your sugars.

[Crimson Wife]

White bread causes a bigger insulin spike than 100% whole wheat, which in turn causes a bigger spike than sprouted grain (like Ezekiel) bread. Even if the total carb intake is the same for all 3, the bigger the spike, the hungrier it'll leave you afterwards.

[Cheryl in NM]

How does it do that? I thought carbs were carbs (except fiber and sugar). Does the fiber do something special when mixed in? I'm serious, I really wonder this.

 

Fiber absorbs the glucose from the carbs.

[kitten18]

How does it do that? I thought carbs were carbs (except fiber and sugar). Does the fiber do something special when mixed in? I'm serious, I really wonder this.

I think part of it is because the fiber slows down the absorption.

 

White bread is higher on the glycemic index (more impact on blood sugar) than table sugar.

[WishboneDawn]

I think part of it is because the fiber slows down the absorption.

 

White bread is higher on the glycemic index (more impact on blood sugar) than table sugar.

 

Wow. I have so much to learn.

[Cheryl in NM]

I don't think that is how it works. I'm trying to find a good source to quote, but it seems that what it does is absorb water and forms a gelatinous consistency which aids in slowing down glucose digestion. It doesn't negate the glucose or remove it.

 

I mean if this were true, I could eat some fiber pills before scoffing down a candy bar and not have it wreak havoc on my body. If that were the case I think people would have been all over that idea long ago.

 

I didn't mean it absorbs it all. Here's the way a few of my doctors and my pharmacist described it to me: The fiber binds to some of the glucose and carries it out of the body. I'm looking for sources. I researched this all years ago and don't have the links bookmarked anymore.

[Ellie]

Yes, Atkins says stay away from whole grains, because the are carbs.

 

When doing Atkins for weight loss, you don't have the whole grains. Period. Carbs are carbs. As time goes on and you begin adding in carbs until you reach your goal weight, Atkins does recommend whole grains. Some people will be able to handle more carbs than others and maintain their weight.

[QueenieReighn]

Fiber helps push things through your system faster. That keeps your colon healthier as well as giving things a little less time to be absorbed.

[Cheryl in NM]

You make it sound like it flushes some of the glucose out. I have never heard that (which means nothing). It doesn't seem to me that it works that way. I don't totally know though.

 

Soluble fiber (that's the kind that gels in water) slows digestion and nutrient absorption from the stomach and intestine. This is what keeps blood sugar from spiking. It also increases the passage of bile acids through the digestive tract which then causes our bodies to remove cholesterol from our blood to create more bile acid, thus reducing cholesterol.

 

Insoluble fiber (that's the kind that goes through pretty much unchanged) speeds the passage of food through our stomachs and intestines and adds bulk to the stool. It's kind of a "sweeper".

 

So soluble fiber keeps some glucose from being absorbed through the intestinal lining and insoluble fiber picks it up and carries it out.

 

I have found relief from extreme sugar crash by taking a fiber supplement.

Edited July 14, 2011 by Cheryl in NM

[LisaKinVA]

I can eat fresh milled bread (in the neighborhood of 3-4 servings a day), and not have any issues (weight, cravings, blood sugar spikes). For me, 3-4 servings equals: 1 muffin, 2-3 small dinner rolls (golf-ball size), or biscuits with lunch and dinner.

 

I can't do that with any other breads, muffins, etc. I eat.

 

However, I can't survive on even fresh milled bread alone (without having issues). I need a lot more put protein. If I don't eat enough protein, I don't do well at. all.

 

I do best with between 100-180g. protein a day. I can eat all of the veggies I want (broccoli, carrots, good lettuces, spinach, cukes, cabbage, peppers), without having to count or weigh them. I can't do that with fruit (including tomatoes). I really need to keep my fruit servings to 2-3 higher-fiber, lower sugar fruits (apples, berries, mainly). I can do an orange, 1/2 a banana here or there as well.

 

Overall, my husband and I count carbs and added sugars, but not proteins and fats. We eat between 100-150g. of carbs a day (net carbs). We take in about 25-35g. of fiber a day too...

 

If this matters at all, my body type is that of a mesomorph. I gain muscle very quickly... and as a side "detriment" my BMI is always out of whack.

Edited July 14, 2011 by LisaK in VA

[Cheryl in NM]

I can eat fresh milled bread (in the neighborhood of 3-4 servings a day), and not have any issues (weight, cravings, blood sugar spikes). For me, 3-4 servings equals: 1 muffin, 2-3 small dinner rolls (golf-ball size), or biscuits with lunch and dinner.

 

I can't do that with any other breads, muffins, etc. I eat.

 

However, I can't survive on even fresh milled bread alone (without having issues). I need a lot more put protein. If I don't eat enough protein, I don't do well at. all.

 

I do best with between 100-180g. protein a day. I can eat all of the veggies I want (broccoli, carrots, good lettuces, spinach, cukes, cabbage, peppers), without having to count or weigh them. I can't do that with fruit (including tomatoes). I really need to keep my fruit servings to 2-3 higher-fiber, lower sugar fruits (apples, berries, mainly). I can do an orange, 1/2 a banana here or there as well.

 

Overall, my husband and I count carbs and added sugars, but not proteins and fats. We eat between 100-150g. of carbs a day (net carbs). We take in about 25-35g. of fiber a day too...

 

WOW! You are amazing! How did you figure all that out? And how do you get so much fiber?

[Greta]

I heard someone explain it this way once, and though there are limits to any analogy, it's probably a pretty decent one.

 

Let's say tonight you sit down to watch a movie and you eat some roasted peanuts. You consume x calories in the process. Next week for movie night, the store was out of the peanuts you usually buy, so you had to buy the type that was still in the shell. You sit down to watch your movie, shelling and eating the peanuts as you go. Overall, you still consumed x number of calories, this time you just did so more slowly.

 

Fiber is like the shells on those peanuts - it makes you digest your food more slowly. The food is all still there, you're still getting the same amount of calories, carbs, fat, etc. But your body is absorbing it more slowly than it would without the fiber. That means you get less of a blood sugar spike, but overall you're still getting the same amount of sugar.

Edited July 14, 2011 by GretaLynne

[Dawn in OH]

When I eat carbs, even whole grains, I get brain fog. Highly unpleasant.

 

Me too! I'm much more alert and focused with less carbs. I also have found that when I eat a meal high in protein, I stay full longer and don't get sleepy. It took a long time to figure out what works for me.

[LisaKinVA]

WOW! You are amazing! How did you figure all that out? And how do you get so much fiber?

 

I did the hCG diet this year. Essentially, it's a fasting-type of diet (only with an emphasis on protein, plus the hCG hormone), and you begin adding things back in gradually. I weigh daily and track my body's response to certain foods. A rapid gain of over 2 lbs in one day usually means my body is sensitive to something, and is retaining water to "calm the system." It's really helped me identify problem areas and how much of something is "too much."

 

Slower gains can mean normal fluctuations... or too few or too many calories. My general metabolism (maintenance is between 1600-1800 calories/day), If I'm hungry, I really try to reach for protein and not carbs, but it's nice to know they aren't verbotten for me. I would find that as depressing as not being able to eat cheese!