Joy at Home Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 In general, obviously. Loaded question, I know. As opposed to an unhappy marriage of two people who don't like each other and don't talk to each other. Throw in some alcohol dependence as well. Do you still think the comfort of having both parents there is better than separation? Is separation/divorce better/more difficult for a child who's younger/older? Any thoughts? Lisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrappyhomeschooler Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I wish my parents had divorced long before they actually did. I did not enjoy living in that atmosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amy g. Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 My parents divorced when I was in third grade. My father was so depressed, I believe he would have killed himself if he had stayed married to my mom. Obviously the divorce was much less damaging for us than the alternative. It didn't hurt that he stayed very involved in our lives, and never talked about our mom behind her back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenangelcat Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Depends on the reason. If the kids think they are in a stable, relatively happy environment and then a divorce is thrown in, I think it can be a problem. If the parents are constantly fighting and everyone is walking on eggshells then I think a divorce can be better than continuing that way. Either way, if the divorce proceedings are going to be ugly with each parent using the kids as pawns to hurt the other, than yeah, damaging to say the least. My husband used to work in family law. It was a pretty depressing field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tess in the Burbs Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I too wish mine had divorced sooner than later. They waited as long as they could but I was a freshman in high school 2 days before final exams when my mom left. My sister was in 8th grade and it devastated her.....she is still completely messed up and blames my mother still. But I am married now, and can understand better why they tried so long to make it work. I think if there is a lot of angry, a lot of alcohol, a lot of verbal abuse...end it sooner than later. My sister and I used to hide in the pantry during the fights and talk about how good life would be when they finally split up. It took them another decade to finally do it. But if you look at the damage it did...I struggled to be close in my relationships b/c I didn't want my boyfriends to be like my dad...and my sister is still drinking her sorrow away 20 years later....We reacted differently to the divorce, so I think considering the kids personalities is important. Both my parents said years after the divorce they didn't truly try hard enough to stay together. Neither would compromise then. They both said they wished they had done what needed to be done to make it work. no matter when, it's going to hurt everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassy Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I have no personal experience of divorce, my father died when I was 8 and my mother remarried. I am happily married. I have, however, witnessed the divorce of a SIL/BIL who had three daughters. SIL and BIL were not happy together, but nor were there any serious problems of drug or alcohol dependency. They could have stayed together, whether or not they should have, I, obviously, am in no position to say. I do know that their divorce itself was ugly, frightening and very damaging to their daughters. The anger and recriminations continue four years later and continue to traumatise the girls. In this case, I do believe divorce has been far more damaging for the children than their staying together would have been. But for BIL staying together got in the way of his fun. Cassy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I wish my parents had divorced long before they actually did. I did not enjoy living in that atmosphere. Many of my friend's have expressed the same sentiment about their parent's marriage. I remembered being relieved when my step-father moved out. He was the only father I ever knew and I loved him, but he and my mom were oil and water. I felt like the emotional turmoil was finally coming to and end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margo out of lurking Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 My parents split when my sister and I were 11 and 13. We were able to continue living in our house with our mom. By high school, the great majority of our friends' parents were divorced. We were not unusual. My parents, for the most part, remained friendly. Examples: my dad's girlfriend's son stayed at our house one weekend while my dad and his mom went away; his own dad picked him up at our house. My dad and my mom's boyfriend took the day off work together (and alone!) to replace the hot water heater? furnace? in our house. For us, it worked out, and the trauma was minimized. The downside was that we had little supervision; neither was a particularly involved parent after that, each wanting to pursue their own interests. Also, my parents never, ever fought. That was confusing to us as kids, and it left me with my own doubts as an adult, what it would really take to maintain a marriage. Overall, I think the biggest impact was that our life went on much as before. I realize that a move is a necessity for many people, but some sort of continuing support and feeling of togetherness will make the biggest impression on children. A loving, involved, caring parent can provide that, no matter where one is living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 In my college psychology course, we read about research finding that the majority of those who reported being unhappily married and who stayed married reported being happy in their marriages 5 years later. In contrast, the majority of those who divorced reported still being unhappy. My parents went through a really rough spell when I was 12 but were able to save their marriage via counseling. They are still married today and seem reasonably happy. At this point, they've been "empty-nesters" for a decade, so I think if they were just staying together for us kids, they'd have divorced by this point. Substance abuse sounds like the real issue in the case mentioned in the OP. Whether or not the marriage can be saved is most likely dependent on whether or not the addict can get & keep himself/herself sober. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 There's so much that goes on with (and before) divorce that it's impossible to make a generalization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 With dysfunction (always accompanies addiction), addiction, and strife, the spouses are put in the situation of having to choose from a set of lousy choices. Staying is a lousy choice. Divorce (when kids are involved) is a lousy choice. I personally believe that, in the majority of cases, children should not be living daily with the dysfunction of unrecovered addiction. I also think that it creates a generational pattern to show an example of a marriage to children that is not a real marriage at all. Stay or go both require a massive amount of mental health skills to minimize the damage associated with either choice. Many people miss the mark in that regard. Edited to add: The answer to the subject line is "very". The other part of the answer is more complicated than that, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Bitter divorce, bitter parents afterwards = very hard on the kids. If the divorce is handled reasonably well, and the parents focus on the well-being of the kids versus trying to keep egging each other = much easier on the kids. Obviously it is never an easy situation, but I'm at the point in life where I believe that people can achieve some level of healing from any difficult situation. Not that everyone will, but it is possible. Sometimes the way we talk about these things implies that recovery is not expected. Of course divorce is damaging, but recovery is possible too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlsdMama Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 In general, obviously. Loaded question, I know. As opposed to an unhappy marriage of two people who don't like each other and don't talk to each other. Throw in some alcohol dependence as well. Do you still think the comfort of having both parents there is better than separation? Is separation/divorce better/more difficult for a child who's younger/older? Any thoughts? Lisa This assumes the relationship will stay the same. I grew up in a home like this for the first 8-10 years of my life. They stuck it out despite the more than "some" alcohol dependence and being pretty unhappy. Now the kids are gone. They've been married over 37 years now. There is something to be said about the sheer stability of marriage as well. You can bet that a divorce will eventually bring in a step-mother, probably the chaos of step-siblings, most likely a step-father, and more step-siblings, and all of the juggling and difficulties that that brings. Having been *that* child, I can tell you that while my parents might not have liked other much at all while I was a child, I was very close to my dad. Only having him around on weekends, or distracted by another woman or step-kids would have been devastating to me. Having him in the home, present every day was vital. Vital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I also think that it creates a generational pattern to show an example of a marriage to children that is not a real marriage at all. Bailing on one's commitments is not a good generational pattern either. Children of divorce are far more likely to divorce themselves than children of intact marriages. Trying to work through marital problems and putting the well-being of others ahead of one's selfish desires to be "free" is something that I as a Christian want to model for my children. Not every marriage can (or should) be saved, but Americans are far too quick to divorce IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Who can say? My own parents divorced when I was 30 and I'm grateful they held on for that long. (They disliked each other for years and my dad had/has alcohol issues.) My youngest brother was 16 at the time of the divorce, and he had the hardest time dealing with the fallout. He has huge commitment issues now at age 33 and he blames my parents divorce *shrug*. Divorce stinks for everyone no matter what and I'm sorry if this is something you are contemplating.:grouphug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Bailing on one's commitments is not a good generational pattern either. Children of divorce are far more likely to divorce themselves than children of intact marriages. Trying to work through marital problems and putting the well-being of others ahead of one's selfish desires to be "free" is something that I as a Christian want to model for my children. Not every marriage can (or should) be saved, but Americans are far too quick to divorce IMHO. Did you read my post? I made it clear that the choices stay OR go stink. Your second paragraph doesn't speak to the issues in my post. It is not a "selfish desire" to be free from living daily with an addict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 My parents waited until we were all out of the house. I was 30. I'm grateful my mom waited as long as she did. My dad was to blame for his constant adultery. I would not have wanted my mom to have to continue living with that. But... now when we go to visit it's a battle. Quiet battle over who we stay with, who we see first, who we have the last dinner with. Grandchildren not knowing their grandparents as a couple. It's a lose/lose scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I think a great deal depends on the adults involved. If they put the kids needs ahead of their hurt and anger w/the other spouse, I think the kids have a much better chance to recover and heal and be healthy. If they get mired in their own hurt and anger and lashing out on their ex, then its so much worse. I've known a cpl that truly made coparenting their focus. I think its the only way to truly help the kids deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Dominion Heather Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I think anyone contemplating divorce who has children should read this study: The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce: A 25 Year Landmark Study The study doesn't conclude that the children are ALWAYS better off if parents stay together, but it does show the reality of the continuing ramifications on children as they become adults. It is sobering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Did you read my post? I made it clear that the choices stay OR go stink. Your second paragraph doesn't speak to the issues in my post. It is not a "selfish desire" to be free from living daily with an addict. Substance abuse isn't the root cause of most divorces in this country. Adultery is far more common, and yes, infidelity is putting one's selfish desires ahead of the well-being of the family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Substance abuse isn't the root cause of most divorces in this country. Adultery is far more common, and yes, infidelity is putting one's selfish desires ahead of the well-being of the family. *shrug* I was answering the content of the OP, as written. And "substance abuse" is not the only addiction that has devastating consequences to marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lea1 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 My parents were divorced when I was in the first grade. My father was not there for us after the divorce so that was damaging for me and my sister. On the other hand, my mom remarried and the guy turned out to be an alcoholic and I am very very glad that married did not last long. Divorce and alcoholism are both very damaging to children. Only you can judge which one is worse in your case. I believe the damage of divorce can be somewhat mitigated if the children still see both parents regularly and both parents are really doing what is best for the children. I don't know that there is any way to mitigate the damage of living with an alcoholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalliemorgan Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I don't know if you believe in the Bible, but there are a few scriptures that may help you to make a wise decision. There are instances where there are grounds for divorce, and there are also instances that allow for separation. We have always tried to live by these standards, and they have helped us when times got tough, as I'm sure all marriages have gone through. Sometimes when we are in the middle of a rough situation we can make it seem/feel worse than it needs to be. Having a bigger perspective (ex: the Bible) can help us make a good decision not only for the moment, but for the distant future. I won't post the scriptures in case some may be offended (that's not my purpose,) but if you would like a few you can message me and I will give you a few to look over on your own time. I am so sorry and I don't envy your situation at all, especially with kids. I hope that I helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joy at Home Posted July 11, 2011 Author Share Posted July 11, 2011 With dysfunction (always accompanies addiction), addiction, and strife, the spouses are put in the situation of having to choose from a set of lousy choices. Staying is a lousy choice. Divorce (when kids are involved) is a lousy choice. I personally believe that, in the majority of cases, children should not be living daily with the dysfunction of unrecovered addiction. I also think that it creates a generational pattern to show an example of a marriage to children that is not a real marriage at all. Stay or go both require a massive amount of mental health skills to minimize the damage associated with either choice. Many people miss the mark in that regard. Edited to add: The answer to the subject line is "very". The other part of the answer is more complicated than that, though. Yes. This part concerns me. Not to create a false dichotomy, but is it really better to have a contentious, unloving marriage where parents do not talk or relate to each other in any loving or meaningful way; or one where they amicably separate and are able to maintain a friendly relationship and co-parent their children? Lots of ifs, granted. But if this were the scenario played out, I tend to think option B would be healthier over of the long run. I'm curious of the the long-term ramifications of children (I'm talking girls, in particular here) growing up with that model of marriage. Lisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Both options are the pits. But I'd rather my kids see a happy, healthy marriage than stay in one with an addict. And, we would ALL be in counseling, together and separately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joy at Home Posted July 11, 2011 Author Share Posted July 11, 2011 I don't know if you believe in the Bible, but there are a few scriptures that may help you to make a wise decision. There are instances where there are grounds for divorce, and there are also instances that allow for separation. We have always tried to live by these standards, and they have helped us when times got tough, as I'm sure all marriages have gone through. Sometimes when we are in the middle of a rough situation we can make it seem/feel worse than it needs to be. Having a bigger perspective (ex: the Bible) can help us make a good decision not only for the moment, but for the distant future. I won't post the scriptures in case some may be offended (that's not my purpose,) but if you would like a few you can message me and I will give you a few to look over on your own time. I am so sorry and I don't envy your situation at all, especially with kids. I hope that I helped. This can be difficult if one spouse does not consider himself a Christian (or any faith, for that matter). Lisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda in VT Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I don't think you can generalize. And I think how damaging the divorce is for the kids is not necessarily correlated to the reason for the divorce. We have people close to us who are divorcing for what I believe are excellent reasons. (They have realized they aren't both heterosexual, which is not an issue that will resolve with time.) And yet, I have serious concerns about the details of the divorce. (They are dividing the kids, with each parent having physical custody of two.) Having a good reason for the divorce doesn't guarantee that you (the general you) will handle it in the best way for your kids. And I think some parents who (in my opinion, based on my limited knowledge) don't have good grounds for divorce handle the kids issue admirably. I try really, really hard to avoid making judgements on other people's marriages, divorces, custody arrangements, parenting, etc. You just never really know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2_girls_mommy Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 In my own situation, divorce was way worse than how we lived before. Because of what my sisters and I went through, that is generally how I feel about divorce. I think it is better for the kids for the parents to stick it out. If parents are selfish and mean and fight together in the same house, it just gets worse when they are apart and living their own selfish lives dragging the kids around and making them part of the games. At least when they are together, there is some semblance of family life for the kids. Dad can work on the yard, mom can take kids to school functions, etc. I don't know, maybe it was just my experience. But divorce and all of the dating/relationships/remarriages, new jobs, moving around was more stressful than when my parents fought at home. Afterwards they still fought, but there were more people and homes involved, and the kids got to be pawns. Aww memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByGrace3 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I think anyone contemplating divorce who has children should read this study: The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce: A 25 Year Landmark Study The study doesn't conclude that the children are ALWAYS better off if parents stay together, but it does show the reality of the continuing ramifications on children as they become adults. It is sobering. :iagree: I was actually going to link to this book. I read this in a class on marriage in college. After a 25 year study on children of divorce, the conclusion was that barring abuse, children of divorce were almost always better off with parents that stayed together. (My very simplified conclusion of a detailed study) :tongue_smilie: Of course, substance abuse can mean very different things, and has its own set of ramifications to deal with, so not a clear cut answer obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I think this discussion is bound to generate hurt feelings and arguments, but I will throw in my two cents anyway. My parents were unhappily married from about the time I was 8 until they divorced when I was 16. I used to wish they would get divorced because it was stressful to have them living in the same house but obviously unhappy and often not speaking. After they got divorced, I realized that it was better, for me, to have them married when I was young. Shuttling back and forth between parents for holidays and the like sucks. It just sucks, there's no way around it. Until I had my own family, I worried about the parent I wasn't with feeling lonely and left out. Trying to plan a schedule that included everyone was a hassle. I can't imagine how bad it would have felt to have been a young child with no control over where I was and when and not to have had both my parents there when I came home with a triumph or defeat. My parents "stayed together for the kids," and I am thankful for that. I honestly think more people should do that. When you get married and have kids, you have a commitment to those kids to give them a family, and in my old-fashioned, un-PC view as the child of divorced parents, a family includes the mom and the dad (and this has nothing to do with gay couples, or single parents by choice, or whatever ... I merely speaking of straight couples who choose to get married and have kids). You have the rest of your life to find your bliss. While your kids are kids, my belief is that you should stay in the same home as the children's other parent (absent abuse, of course). Tara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy in NH Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 a generational pattern to show an example of a marriage to children that is not a real marriage at all I think it is more damaging for children to live in a home with an unhealthy marriage. Children internalize the relationships they see around them - if children grow up in a home where the relationship is unhealthy, with parents who barely talk to each other, it becomes their "normal". They will seek out relationships like that in their adult lives to maintain that sense of "normal". Part of the consideration when I was leaving my ex was that I want for my children to grow up in a home where spouses show affection, sometimes have arguments but are able to resolve them, and work as partners in all things. I feel that is a healthy relationship to model for them; it is what I want them to seek for themselves as adults. We weren't living anything close to that. Now we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaTanya Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I think you have to look into the future as well as evaluate the present. I have lived with an addict (teen brother when I was a young adult), and it was awful. I'm sure each situation is unique and I wouldn't make an blanket statement based on what the OP has given. The future is another matter. What will happen to the children immediately after the divorce? Will they have to move, change schools, etc? Will these changes be safe? Will the parents share custody? How will school/extra-curriculars/etc be handled? (In other words, will the children be able to count on someone to take care of them all the time?) What if the parents remarry? Can you anticipate how the children will be treated by a step-parent? (We have a friend who is gaining custody of his teen son because the current custodial stepfather cannot get along with the child -- and their are two younger half-siblings. The stress between the stepfather and ds is causing unbearable stress to the mother. Not saying it's right -- just that this is an issue they hadn't anticipated when they divorced 10 years ago.) How often will the children see each parent? My sil's ex moved to Mass. and the child had to travel alone twice each year to maintain a barebones relationship. I've taught countless dc whose parents were divorced. And it was common (but not the rule) for some of the dc to not have their school supplies because they had been at the other parent's the night before or to miss field trip deadlines or for one parent's household to be lax with medications. How much stability can you maintain if you split compared to the risk/benefits of the present situation? These are not reasons to stay in a marriage, but they are considerations for the child's well-being. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 (edited) I can only speak of my personal experience. My parents divorced when I was 14. They appeared to be happily married so it was a complete and utter shock. I have serious trust issues now. I tend to be cynical about people and I think it is because I trusted my parents and they pulled the rug out from under my feet big time. As an adult looking back, I think they were both immature selfish individuals focused only on what they thought would make them feel happy without considering anyone else involved. It was the 70s - pretty typical attitude for the time. On a positive note, I learned never to take anyone's mere word for anything. I was a difficult and troublesome student because I challenged all my high school teachers and college professors if I didn't agree with them. This can be a very helpful approach to living as you aren't easily led and test everything. It does make for difficult relationships at times and I don't think any of my teachers/profs liked me. My bil left my sil 7 years ago for another woman. He is a very outspoken person who very often railed about others' infidelity and how he would never do such a thing. His six children were, like me, comptely and utterly shocked when he left. I think it would have been much easier on the children if they'd had some notion that their dad did not truly think adultery was all that bad. I think it is much worse for the children if their parents act like they are happy with their situation and then, out of no where, split up. Better to give them a bit of a heads up if at all possible. Edited July 11, 2011 by Kathleen in VA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Very damaging, but sometimes the lesser of 2 evils. Dh's parents stayed together too long. They had a violent and volatile relationship. They divorced when dh was 16. I wish they had done it either much earlier or 2 years later. Putting the kids through hell and then blowing it up at 16 was the worst of the bad choices. My parents peacefully divorced right after I moved out. Their relationship was very different than dh's parents. It's hard to explain withou tons of details, but I definitely benefitted from them staying together till I left. It wasn't intentional on their part, it just worked out that was. My brother was 12 at the time and had a totally different experience. Both dh and I have been profoundly effected by our parent's marriages and divorces. There is no getting around that legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janie Grace Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 How damaging? It's completely devastating. I don't have the "if they had stayed together" to compare it to, but as a child of divorce from age 6, I can say it shattered my world. I wish adults would work harder to make their marriages work. People throw in the towel far too easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Both are inescapably damaging to children. Many moms gets caught in a situation where there is no way for their kids to have the ideal family. But tragedy is sometimes a part of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetMissMagnolia Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I guess it depends on how things are handled---I've seen "good" divorces and "bad" ones....if the marital/home environment isn't good for the parents then it isn't good for the kids.....being in a less stressful-healthier environment would be better for the kids....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kchara Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I haven't read all of the responses, but here's my two cents: In our family's case, it wasn't the actual separation that was devastating. That was necessary, absolutely. The situation was beyond unhealthy, it was complete madness. It was the childishness of both parents during the divorce and after (and it still continues... 20 years later), and it was that both parents basically went their own ways, leaving us in some sort of limbo. Both went and started over with new lives, and we didn't really fit in anywhere. It was sad all of the way around. I'm not saying that happens to everyone, but it did happen to us. When you have children, your ex will *always* be a part of your life, in some form or other. Even if they're not around, their "ghost," so to speak, will be there. I think people with kids sometimes divorce so that they won't have to deal with the other person anymore. When you have kids, that just doesn't happen, even after adulthood. I think to assume it will can be incredibly damaging to the child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 In my own situation, divorce was way worse than how we lived before. Because of what my sisters and I went through, that is generally how I feel about divorce. I think it is better for the kids for the parents to stick it out. If parents are selfish and mean and fight together in the same house, it just gets worse when they are apart and living their own selfish lives dragging the kids around and making them part of the games. At least when they are together, there is some semblance of family life for the kids. Dad can work on the yard, mom can take kids to school functions, etc. I don't know, maybe it was just my experience. But divorce and all of the dating/relationships/remarriages, new jobs, moving around was more stressful than when my parents fought at home. Afterwards they still fought, but there were more people and homes involved, and the kids got to be pawns. Aww memories. I'm not speaking to your situation or parents, but if there is severe dysfunction the marriage, each party has lots of work to do either in the marriage or out of it. If that work is not done, the result is devastating for the kids no matter what happens to the marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Bitter divorce, bitter parents afterwards = very hard on the kids. If the divorce is handled reasonably well, and the parents focus on the well-being of the kids versus trying to keep egging each other = much easier on the kids.Obviously it is never an easy situation, but I'm at the point in life where I believe that people can achieve some level of healing from any difficult situation. Not that everyone will, but it is possible. Sometimes the way we talk about these things implies that recovery is not expected. Of course divorce is damaging, but recovery is possible too. My reply to the portion in red is that any two people who can do that should have been able to save their marriage. Lots of gray area as to whether it is better to stay or go. In my own FOO alcohol was the culprit...and life for brother, mom and me improved dramatically post divorce. In my first marriage/divorce I believe ds has benefited from not being around the strife between XH and me. However, the fall out of divorce/remarriage/blended family and his father's continued involvement with his 20 something female adultery partner has been rough. I would do nearly anything to keep my child's family together. The effects of divorce are very far reaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Both the circumstances of the marriage- how bad, what the conflict issues are, what the atmosphere is like for the kids- and the circumstances of the divorce- how mature the parents both are around the kids- make all the difference. There is no clear cut answer. As a child of divorce, and I was deeply wounded, I understand personally the damage that divorce even when the parents can communicate civilly can cause. But I would never say parents should stay together for the sake of the kids. It should be a motivating factor to keep a family together, but never a reason to stay in a soul sucking or abusive situation. However on the other hand I think many people do leave marriages thinking it was the marriage that was the problem when in fact it wasn't. Its easy to hang unhappiness onto marriage and blame it, when it was in fact coming from inside yourself. Many people end up in similar situations, with similar partners, and similar issues, because they never changed themselves. I think we know- often as women, sometimes men too- when a marriage has reached its end. I once read that women often recover from divorce more quickly than men because they spend so long grieving for its end while they are still in it. They leave once they have moved to acceptance that it has already ended, for them at least, which could be years after the grieving process has begun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Bailing on one's commitments is not a good generational pattern either. Children of divorce are far more likely to divorce themselves than children of intact marriages. QUOTE] I've always heard this and I'm sure there's tons of research but my own experience is the exact opposite. My parents divorced but my siblings and I have had healthy marriages and none of us have ever divorced. My dh's parents just celebrated their 50th anniversary and dh is the only one of his 6 siblings to have never been divorced (a few of them have had multiple divorces). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TN Mama Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 (edited) My parents divorced when I was 7. I was very sad for a while, but by the time I was 11 or 12 I realized how much better all of our lives were. I love both of my parents, but it was easy to see we were all happier with the new arrangement. Of course, that's my own experience. My stepbrothers were really affected by their parents divorce. Though it probably had more to do with the fact that their mom didn't want custody of them than the actual divorce. ETA: After reading some of the responses I thought I'd add, my parents were (most of the time) mature and did not bring my sister and I into any of their disagreements. Edited July 11, 2011 by TN Mama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YLVD Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I remember studying this in college. Divorce is far less damaging than growing up in a tense, unhappy household with unhappy parents. Even if the fighting and dischord is not overt, children know it. IME, this is very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YLVD Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 In my college psychology course, we read about research finding that the majority of those who reported being unhappily married and who stayed married reported being happy in their marriages 5 years later. In contrast, the majority of those who divorced reported still being unhappy. My parents went through a really rough spell when I was 12 but were able to save their marriage via counseling. They are still married today and seem reasonably happy. At this point, they've been "empty-nesters" for a decade, so I think if they were just staying together for us kids, they'd have divorced by this point. Substance abuse sounds like the real issue in the case mentioned in the OP. Whether or not the marriage can be saved is most likely dependent on whether or not the addict can get & keep himself/herself sober. I also took social psychology and children and family studies (sociology) and leaned very different than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YLVD Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Bailing on one's commitments is not a good generational pattern either. Children of divorce are far more likely to divorce themselves than children of intact marriages. Trying to work through marital problems and putting the well-being of others ahead of one's selfish desires to be "free" is something that I as a Christian want to model for my children. Not every marriage can (or should) be saved, but Americans are far too quick to divorce IMHO. I think that keeping children in a dysfunctional, unhappy home, is far more selfish. That's JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I think that keeping children in a dysfunctional, unhappy home, is far more selfish. That's JMO. First you have to define dysfunction and unhappiness. People grow up. Marriages get better. Then families are still together. I've seen that happen a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YLVD Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 (edited) I think this discussion is bound to generate hurt feelings and arguments, but I will throw in my two cents anyway. My parents were unhappily married from about the time I was 8 until they divorced when I was 16. I used to wish they would get divorced because it was stressful to have them living in the same house but obviously unhappy and often not speaking. After they got divorced, I realized that it was better, for me, to have them married when I was young. Shuttling back and forth between parents for holidays and the like sucks. It just sucks, there's no way around it. Until I had my own family, I worried about the parent I wasn't with feeling lonely and left out. Trying to plan a schedule that included everyone was a hassle. I can't imagine how bad it would have felt to have been a young child with no control over where I was and when and not to have had both my parents there when I came home with a triumph or defeat. My parents "stayed together for the kids," and I am thankful for that. I honestly think more people should do that. When you get married and have kids, you have a commitment to those kids to give them a family, and in my old-fashioned, un-PC view as the child of divorced parents, a family includes the mom and the dad (and this has nothing to do with gay couples, or single parents by choice, or whatever ... I merely speaking of straight couples who choose to get married and have kids). You have the rest of your life to find your bliss. While your kids are kids, my belief is that you should stay in the same home as the children's other parent (absent abuse, of course). Tara Do people really think that the majority of divorces happen because of people "finding their bliss"? That's just odd to me. I have seen parents stay together for the kids. Those that did not have a ton of conflict had less of a hard time, but I would have hated to grow up in that home. Children are far more aware than we thin they are. I want my child to see a loving couple and a complete marriage. Not one while they are not connected, not in love, etc. Most marriages that I see break up are due to infidelity or abuse. That's hardly finding your bliss. Edited to add that I have experience in this. My mom and dad divorced when I was a baby due to his alcoholism and drug abuse. That was the very best decision that my mom could make. She's been married to my stepdad for 30 years and while it's not overtly awful, I wish that they had divorced long ago. She would be happier and it makes me sad. I divorced my now ex-dh due to him being abusive and unfaithful. My DD is older and has said to me that she's glad that she did not have to grow up with him in the home. She loves him but knows that being raised with him would not be ideal. Edited July 11, 2011 by YLVD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 First you have to define dysfunction and unhappiness. People grow up. Marriages get better. Then families are still together. I've seen that happen a lot. :iagree:Are you unhappy because you're getting beaten every other day or called names and not allowed out of the house to go grocery shopping or are you unhappy because the thrill is gone and you want more excitement in your life or your spouse gained 10 pounds? Why you're unhappy matters a lot in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YLVD Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 First you have to define dysfunction and unhappiness. People grow up. Marriages get better. Then families are still together. I've seen that happen a lot. Some do, most don't, at least if we are relying on statistics. I haven't seen much of that IRL either. People may grow up, etc but if children have to stay in that situation while it happens, that can be a selfish and damaging act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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