Is my son at all competitive for MIT?

[amyinva]

My son is an upcoming high school senior. His plan up until last weekend was to finish his associates degree in the Engineering program at our local community college, and then do the guaranteed transfer program into UVA (he needs a certain GPA, which he will have). The last few days, he started talking with a friend about MIT. He is really excited about MIT's program, and is considering applying there for Chemical Engineering.

 

We started letting him take Community College classes in the 9th grade, and he did pretty well for his first 3 semesters (not full time). Mostly As, a couple of Bs. Then he had a semester where he got a C in Spanish and we pulled him out for a semester after that to work on motivation and other character issues. He also went on medication for ADHD, which has made a tremendous difference for him. The following semester he re-took the Spanish class, and got an A. He has gotten straight As since his semester off, including another level of Spanish. His GPA will end up in the 3.8 range, I think. He will have taken (with As) Honors Chem, Organic Chem, and math through Calculus. I think he got a B one semester of Biology (before his semester off), an A the other semester. He is the secretary of the volunteer club at the CC, is involved in a bible study that he started with his friends, and volunteers occasionally at a homeless day shelter for men. He took honors Chem, got an A, and did a project where he attempted to extract biofuel from algae. He is continuing to work on this some with a friend in his free time. He also works almost 40 hours a week during the summer, 20 during the school year at a car wash (not very flashy, but pays the bills). He will probably only work over holidays after this summer, so he can focus on academics. I think that pretty much sums up how he looks on paper.

 

IF he does extremely well on his SATs this fall, does he have a chance of getting into MIT? Not as a transfer, he would not try to transfer all of his credits- maybe just a few of the ones that are not math/science. I just want to prepare him if he is not competitive enough. It seems like a lot of folks I read about with Ivy League-bound kids have a lot more on paper. He does have a real passion for chemistry, and reads books about it for fun. :)

 

If getting in is even a possibility, what can he do to improve his application over the next semester?

 

Thank you!

Edited July 7, 2011 by Amy in VA

[abbeyej]

I would call MIT's admissions office right now and tell them everything you've said here. Most colleges and universities try to put their most helpful, friendliest employees in the admissions office, so don't be afraid to call them. They can give you a good assessment of his chances now and perhaps some advice on what he needs to do in order to be a viable candidate.

 

I think the fact that your son struggled, figured out what he needed to change, and came back stronger may actually be helpful. But I would call them directly to find out whether his course load, GPA, and predicted SAT (did he take the PSAT as a junior?) could potentially get him in...

[amyinva]

Great idea to call admissions! I will print his transcript and do that with him.

 

He did not take PSATs. His original plan (guaranteed transfer program) would have made the SATs a formality. He plans on taking a practice test to get an idea of where his score will be, and then planning a study program for improving problem areas. I know this will be a huge factor. That's why I said IF his SATs are excellent. If not, I am sure he has a very slim chance.

 

Even if they are high, I wonder if his extracurricular stuff is sufficient, and he has not been on the higher-than-calculus math track, plus there are those lower grades early on...

 

Edited to add that my best guess for SATs is that he will do extremely well in math, very well in verbal, pretty well but not absolute tops in writing.

Edited July 7, 2011 by Amy in VA

[creekland]

You won't know if he doesn't try. I'd do just as you have planned - see what his SAT (and take the ACT) scores come back as, then give it his best shot if they are within range.

 

As was mentioned earlier, he could use his earlier "issues" to make a really nice essay, and he's shown ability afterward.

 

I'm not certain I'd put much stock in what admissions says, but I'd still check with them. They won't know "for sure" until they see their applicant pool. I doubt they'd discourage anyone from applying, but they might have helpful suggestions to make his application stronger.

 

Be certain he knows the admissions rate, so doesn't get his hopes and dreams set on the school, but then, if his scores are in range, my suggestion is to go for it. ;)

[Julie in MN]

Even if they are high, I wonder if his extracurricular stuff is sufficient,

 

I would work on getting that part to "sound its best" even if you don't have a ton to offer in that area. My son didn't go to MIT, but he went to a school usually ranked in the top 5 for his field (CSM).

 

Anyways, I would say that #1 was test scores but after that, there was a real focus on not just doing school, but will you contribute something to the community of college and/or work.

 

Julie

[Crimson Wife]

Have you seen the MIT homeschool admissions page?

 

UVA has a decent engineering program, and a student who does well in that would be in good standing for a graduate program at a school like MIT. Most engineers these days do go on for a M.S. or PhD. so I'd be inclined to save the money for grad school.

[G5052]

Have you seen the MIT homeschool admissions page?

 

UVA has a decent engineering program, and a student who does well in that would be in good standing for a graduate program at a school like MIT. Most engineers these days do go on for a M.S. or PhD. so I'd be inclined to save the money for grad school.

 

With most engineers getting an M.S. or higher, the graduate program actually can "count" more than the undergraduate. UVA is a very good school of course, not one that I'd discount at all. I'd also be concerned about graduating with a lot of undergraduate debt. UVA may be quite a bit more affordable that way.

[8filltheheart]

Have you seen the MIT homeschool admissions page?

 

UVA has a decent engineering program, and a student who does well in that would be in good standing for a graduate program at a school like MIT. Most engineers these days do go on for a M.S. or PhD. so I'd be inclined to save the money for grad school.

 

I think it really must depend on the field. A lot of the engineers dh works with do not have advanced degrees. Pure chemists and those in the research dept, yes. But those in manufacturing or technical, it really depends. ChemEs can advance very high in their fields w/o a MS or PhD.

[angela in ohio]

I think the fact that your son struggled, figured out what he needed to change, and came back stronger may actually be helpful.

 

That would make a great essay topic. :001_smile:

[readinmom]

Your son has to call the admissions counselor and set up a working relationship with him/her. The more he is in contact, the more he will be seen as a real person. The grades are impressive, and the fact that he took the break shows great emotional maturity. Admissions loves that! I think another strong point in his favor is the fact that he re-took the class, got the A.

 

If he is serious about applying, he shouldn't wait. The transfer to UVA is a great back-up, if that's what he chooses. UVA is a great school!

 

HTH

[gardenmom5]

My son is an upcoming high school senior. His plan up until last weekend was to finish his associates degree in the Engineering program at our local community college, ). The last few days, he started talking with a friend about MIT. He is really excited about MIT's program, and is considering applying there for Chemical Engineering.

 

He will have taken (with As) Honors Chem, Organic Chem, and math through Calculus. I think he got a B one semester of Biology an A the other semester. He is the secretary of the volunteer club at the CC, is involved in a bible study that he started with his friends, and volunteers occasionally at a homeless day shelter for men. He took honors Chem, got an A, and did a project where he attempted to extract biofuel from algae.

 

IF he does extremely well on his SATs this fall, does he have a chance of getting into MIT? Not as a transfer, he would not try to transfer all of his credits- maybe just a few of the ones that are not math/science. I just want to prepare him if he is not competitive enough. It seems like a lot of folks I read about with Ivy League-bound kids have a lot more on paper. He does have a real passion for chemistry, and reads books about it for fun. :)

 

If getting in is even a possibility, what can he do to improve his application over the next semester?

 

Thank you!

 

My girls both attended Colgate (about 10% of applicants are currently starting in the fall) - which is considered an Ivy fallback by some. 2dd majored in chem with a bio minor, did NIH summer research, and starts pharm school in sep. so, I have some experience.

 

What is he doing for english and history? - both should be college prep quality. a good school like wants a well-rounded student. what would you consider his "level" of spanish? I would think three years would be an absolute minimum. (my girls did six years of french - really helped 2dd learn spanish on her mission.) how did he do in algebra-based Physics? (typical high school level physics) calculus based physics? (usually taken freshman year in college and mandatory for any engineering) How many semesters of college calculus?

 

go ahead and apply - the worst that can happen is they say 'no'. His passion for chemistry is encouraging, but they do want english skills (gotta be able to write). Let him know that even kids who are VERY qualified from a good prep program don't necessarily get in, but you'll never realize a dream if you don't try for it. I would urge a VERY strong application essay.

 

also keep in mind, there are a number of wonderful engineering schools around - that he'd probably also get excited about - besides MIT.

 

Kristen

[Kathy in Richmond]

I've had two kids accepted to MIT in the past six years.

 

In addition to an SAT score, your son would also need to take two SAT II Subject Tests from this list before applying - all applicants need them, regardless of dual enrollment credits.

 

CrimsonWife gave you a link to MIT's homeschool admission advice page; I'd highly recommend reading not only that page, but MIT's whole admissions website in order to get an idea of what life & study there entails. Several of the admissions officers and current students maintain blogs on the site which are pretty darn honest & can give you a glimpse into MIT's unique culture. Has your son visited campus and spent any time there? It's hard to describe the atmosphere exactly w/o seeing it up close. Intense, collaborative, hands-on, & helpful are some of the adjectives that pop into my head when I think of my son's friends there. They definitely work hard! It's not a place with a lot of down time. Some kids thrive in this kind of atmosphere, but it's not for everyone.

 

Also read the "match between you and MIT" article; it gives a good idea of what they're looking for when they make admissions decisions. Yes, they look at those test scores, but then they go beyond that and look at FIT as best they can. Make sure his essays and recommendations and interview show his creativity, initiative, and theory + hands-on learning (like his biofuel project :)).

 

MIT's Common data set can be a useful tool for seeing the stats of recently admitted students, the percentages admitted, the categories MIT ranks as important or not-so-important in making admissions decisions, etc. Here's some more data on admissions statistics for the Class of 2015, and here's a the corresponding admissions results thread on College Confidential.

 

MIT does not use the Common App for admissions, but rather its own application (it can be done online, though). It's not usually released till late August or early September. He'll need to make an MyMIT account on the admissions site in order to access it. The application typically entails several short essays. My dd's essay topics were: what you do for fun; what you want to major in & why; describe some time that you used your creativity; describe the world you come from & how it shaped your aspirations; describe a challenge you overcame. Give him enough time to do a good job on the essays. At MIT, unlike some schools, they are looking for content more than style in the essays. They do really read them closely! Also, his letter of recommendation writers (he'll need two - one from math/sci and one from humanities/social science/arts) will have to submit an MIT-specific recommendation form.

 

The admissions office is a friendly place, so do call them with questions. As for trying to establish a personal relationship with an admissions officer in advance, I don't think it would really do much good. Their office does not read applications geographically, so you'd have no way of knowing in advance which adcom(s) will sit down with your son's application package next winter. What will help him, though, is to do the optional interview. That's his chance to shine in person! The interviewers, or "EC's", take a lot of time to write up a detailed interview report about each student. It can only help - the admissions rate is significantly higher for kids who choose to interview over those who decline the opportunity.

 

About financing an MIT education: We are also VA residents, and my older child was also admitted to U VA engineering. When the financial aid packages came in, an MIT education was actually much cheaper for us than a U VA education! We received no basically no help from U VA (only loans, and its estimated in-state cost of attendance is $24,000 now). On the other hand, my son and daughter received excellent need-based scholarships to MIT, making it significantly less expensive. We're definitely middle-class here. The lesson is that it cannot hurt to apply!

 

Good luck to your son!

[gardenmom5]

With most engineers getting an M.S. or higher, the graduate program actually can "count" more than the undergraduate. .

 

Many engineers do just fine with a BS. a chemE bs frequently starts about $80K and up. (they are the "top" of the engineer pecking order). A nephew with "just" a compE bs started at $100K. no advanced degree needed.

 

do keep in mind, most engineering programs are five years because they can't fit it all in four years. (though I have another nephew who lived in the lab and got out in four years.)

 

Kristen

[8filltheheart]

Many engineers do just fine with a BS. a chemE bs frequently starts about $80K and up. (they are the "top" of the engineer pecking order). A nephew with "just" a compE bs started at $100K. no advanced degree needed.

 

do keep in mind, most engineering programs are five years because they can't fit it all in four years. (though I have another nephew who lived in the lab and got out in four years.)

 

Kristen

 

 

I am not familiar with 5 yr engineering programs w/the exception of fast-tracking masters.

 

FWIW....my ds is graduating with his chemE in 7 semesters. ;) He did graduate with 18 credit hours from his sr yr of high school though. And yes, that salary range is pretty typical for starting chemEs.

[8filltheheart]

Kathy, thanks for all links. :)

[amyinva]

Wow, you guys are fantastic. So helpful!

 

Kathy, your older posts about what your kids did in high school are what scared me! You did such an incredible job! I'm feeling like we could have done so much more for him. We started homeschooling him in 5th grade, and with all the littles, and trying to figure out the whole homeschooling thing, I feel like we didn't do enough.

 

My son did History and English comp classes at the CC, a well as at his co-op. He was advised to stop Spanish after 2 CC semesters to focus on requirements for the engineering program at the CC. He loves Spanish, though. Maybe he should continue. We definitely have some reading & thinking to do.

[Kathy in Richmond]

Wow, you guys are fantastic. So helpful!

 

Kathy, your older posts about what your kids did in high school are what scared me! You did such an incredible job! I'm feeling like we could have done so much more for him. We started homeschooling him in 5th grade, and with all the littles, and trying to figure out the whole homeschooling thing, I feel like we didn't do enough.

 

My son did History and English comp classes at the CC, a well as at his co-op. He was advised to stop Spanish after 2 CC semesters to focus on requirements for the engineering program at the CC. He loves Spanish, though. Maybe he should continue. We definitely have some reading & thinking to do.

 

Aww, please don't be scared, Amy! If you saw my son's writing ability back when he applied, you'd definitely be encouraged :tongue_smilie:. They really will look at your son in context. Did you see on the common data set link that the only category they rate as "Very Important" in admissions is "Character/ Personal Qualities"?! And they mean it - they'd rather take a good kid with potential and desire than a smartie-pants who is only in it for himself.

 

About the foreign language - this is my opinion ONLY, but I don't see it as a non-negotiable. And that common data set link does state that only two units of foreign language are required for admissions Your son's biofuel project sounds way more fascinating, and it's cool that he's doing it on his own with a friend. They are so used to kids that get fancy projects because they have connections with professors, etc, that I think he will really stand out. In fact, when I attended a talk recently given by the admissions staff at MIT, they said that they love kids who tinker in the garage (but they don't see many of those kids any more!). They also value working at a job as an extracurricular - they said it, really! It shows solid character. You don't need a string of math and science awards if you can show talent, desire, and character. That's why it pays to really take your time on the applications.:)

 

Again, good luck! the only way to be 100% certain that you won't get in is not to apply at all!

[StephanieZ]

I think a whole lot of other issues come into play for a school like MIT (extra curriculars, test scores, essay quality, projects/competitions/research, etc), which has many more qualified applicants than spaces (just like any great school, including UVA).

 

UVA is an awesome school, and an awesome place. Guaranteed transfer is so cool! What a great opportunity!

 

Since he is interested, there is no harm in trying for MIT, but whenever you apply to an ivy-caliber school, you have to be comfortable with the fact that there are *way* more awesome applicants than there are spots. It becomes a lottery of sorts, so you don't want to be counting on anything no matter how awesome your application.

 

I'd also work the numbers. . . UVA is a great school. MIT is also great. How much time and $$ will it take to get the undergrad degree from either? For the same time & $, he might be able to get an MS if he starts with UVA. . . If you don't have major scholarship help, it'd be a no brainer for *me* to choose UVA just due to $$ (since UVA is also an awesome school).

 

Seems like your son is in a great position to go ahead and try for MIT, while also planning for UVA. Either way is a great option. *Never* don't try b/c you think something will be too hard. I've seen a lot of great opportunities passed because of that kind of thinking!

[Sunshine State Sue]

Most engineers these days do go on for a M.S. or PhD. so I'd be inclined to save the money for grad school.

I have a master's degree in Industrial Engineering (20+ years old, but still...)

 

Frankly, I wouldn't worry about saving the $$$ for graduate school. Students in engineering in graduate school get lots of assistance. Especially the Americans, who are in the minority. I was accepted at Northwestern with a full fellowship and Purdue with an assistantship (I had to work as a teaching assistant).

 

My 2c.

[Gwen in VA]

Most engineers these days do go on for a M.S. or PhD. so I'd be inclined to save the money for grad school.

 

Students in engineering in graduate school get lots of assistance.

 

:iagree: If your son chooses to go to grad school in science or engineering, he will be able to receive generous funding. Do NOT worry about funding grad school -- there is no need!

 

UVA is a great backup with lots of strong programs. Your son can't go wrong!