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How old?

 

In our house, we handle it like this... If the child is outright defiant about doing schoolwork, or is doing it in a surly, unpleasant, intentionally-dawdling way, I "send them to the steps" (which always in my head is more like, "I'll send you to the Steppes", lol). They must sit on the bottom steps until ready to do the work at a reasonable pace (and obviously some days that's at breakneck speed and some days there's a little day dreaming and staring off into space) and without open rudeness to me (which includes eye-rolling, desk-kicking, audible sighing, glaring, desk-pounding, etc, etc). The deal is, they *have* to get the work done. But I don't have to be subjected to ugliness and I don't have to "coax" them into it. If they want to waste the entire day sitting on the steps (no reading, no toys, no talking to anyone as they walk by), that's okay by me (and I can go about the house getting other things done), but there's no escape. Worst case scenario, a child could spend the entire day on the steps (with either a brief parole for meals, or dinner brought to the steps) and then straight to bed, but most of the time (I think because they know I *would* follow through with that based on past experience), my kids need only a few minutes to regroup before they come back to the schoolroom with a new outlook.

 

I remind them that any time spent on the steps is a waste of their free time -- they can get the work done and have the rest of the day to spend as they please, or they can sulk on the steps for as long as they like, and still have a whole day of school facing them. But I don't argue and cajole.

 

So far, it has worked really well for us and most of the time now, a single raised eyebrow will work wonders for attitude problems. ;) But I did have to follow through consistently in the beginning.

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4 1/2 yo. We usually do some phonics over breakfast, then some handwriting and math. She has Spanish class today, so we'll blow off doing it at home. Seriously, it's not like I'm pushing her too hard. At least, I don't think so. Like I said -- a whole 90 minutes' worth of school maybe. But I get so much abuse lately from her about it. Today was over the top and made me question the whole homeschool idea. (DH talked me down when I called him)

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I was literally sitting down to post something along the same lines when I saw your post. My dd6 has become increasingly difficult and I wonder if it's just time to take a break. Although I am ok with taking a break, I still wish I knew what the solution would be if we needed to keep plugging along. She has just decided that she doesn't NEED any lessons from me because everything I teach is "babyish or boring" But when she gets anything wrong - she dissolves into tears.

 

I know this is not very helpful but I just thought I'd chime in to say - I'm in the boat with you and I'll be watching with interest. :lurk5:

 

Binalina

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At the ages you are talking about I would put away the books. I would teach them on the sly. Is your 4 1/2 year old learning her letters? Then instead of a book or flashcards, play "Alphabet I Spy" at the mall. Take the sidewalk chalk outside and practice a big long hop-scotch as you hop the numbers or practice skip -counting (only don't tell them that is what you are doing!) by jumping over one number each time. For a 6 year old, do read-a-louds at the breakfast and lunch table (they are eating anyway and it will seem like entertainment instead of "school"). Practice letters by writing fun letters to Grandma. Practice math (and letters) by making a store (with price tags and sale signs).

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In our house, we handle it like this... If the child is outright defiant about doing schoolwork, or is doing it in a surly, unpleasant, intentionally-dawdling way, I "send them to the steps" (which always in my head is more like, "I'll send you to the Steppes", lol). They must sit on the bottom steps until ready to do the work at a reasonable pace (and obviously some days that's at breakneck speed and some days there's a little day dreaming and staring off into space) and without open rudeness to me (which includes eye-rolling, desk-kicking, audible sighing, glaring, desk-pounding, etc, etc). The deal is, they *have* to get the work done. But I don't have to be subjected to ugliness and I don't have to "coax" them into it. If they want to waste the entire day sitting on the steps (no reading, no toys, no talking to anyone as they walk by), that's okay by me (and I can go about the house getting other things done), but there's no escape. Worst case scenario, a child could spend the entire day on the steps (with either a brief parole for meals, or dinner brought to the steps) and then straight to bed, but most of the time (I think because they know I *would* follow through with that based on past experience), my kids need only a few minutes to regroup before they come back to the schoolroom with a new outlook.

 

I remind them that any time spent on the steps is a waste of their free time -- they can get the work done and have the rest of the day to spend as they please, or they can sulk on the steps for as long as they like, and still have a whole day of school facing them. But I don't argue and cajole.

 

So far, it has worked really well for us and most of the time now, a single raised eyebrow will work wonders for attitude problems. ;) But I did have to follow through consistently in the beginning.

 

From about 5 and up, this works for us also. Usually mine get sent to their beds. I call it "the attitude adjustment chamber" Once their hearts change and they are no longer defiant, we talk about it and then proceed with the work.

 

In my book, open defiance EARNS immediate punishment.

 

If they are younger than 5 or are just having a bad day, (we have allergy issues that can cause behavior problems) then we usually have a hug and a talk. This cures it most of the time.

 

I have found it really helps to find the real source of the problem and try to deal with that. Is it allergies? Did something bad happen recently? Are they not sleeping well? Do they just need a hug and some fun mom time?

 

But if it is just open defiance, then off to the attitude adjustment chamber.....

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4 1/2 yo. We usually do some phonics over breakfast, then some handwriting and math. She has Spanish class today, so we'll blow off doing it at home. Seriously, it's not like I'm pushing her too hard. At least, I don't think so. Like I said -- a whole 90 minutes' worth of school maybe. But I get so much abuse lately from her about it. Today was over the top and made me question the whole homeschool idea. (DH talked me down when I called him)

 

I find it interesting that you use the word abuse. If you feel it is this way then you need to assert your role as the parent. Who is in charge? Her or you? It sounds like she is testing the water to see how far she can push you.

 

As a side issue,

I have 2 boys so I am not sure about 4 yo girls, but in my world any kind of school work it 4 is too much. This is a time for you to read to her and free play. Also at 4 a hug and a story go a long way to change a heart.

 

BUT If you feel you are giving her too much work then you make this decision separate from the obedience issue. She needs to know you are the parent and you are in charge.

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I think 90 minutes of schoolwork is too much for most 4yos. I do think you need to assert yourself as a gentle but firm parent who deserves respectful treatment, but the schoolwork you're asking from this child may be too much. It reminds me of the Bible verse (Ephesians 6:1-4) where children are exhorted to obey their parents, and parents are exhorted not to "exasperate" or "antagonize" their children.

 

I think you can expect more of your 4yo in terms of obedience and respect -- but ease up on the amount of school work. As others suggested, "sneak it in", but don't "exasperate" her with excessive academic demands. There is time for that later on.

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I'll re-think the amount of schoolwork. I thought that we were doing ok -- she burned through Saxon K and loved it. She asked to do more lessons almost every day and was sooo enthusiastic. Same with OPG. She dragged her feet with handwriting, but that doesn't seem to be as big of an issue lately. But the schoolwork is certainly a factor in our day, so I'll definitely consider all of your advice.

 

But today was crazy with the defiance. It went beyond the defiant "no" thing. She tried to spit at me (couldn't muster it up, but the gesture was unmistakeable). She tried to kick at me. She screamed that she didn't like me, that she didn't care about anything. She spent a ton of time in time-out on the couch (which she made clear SHE DID NOT CARE). The only thing that kept her from being dropped off at DH's place of employment was that she did not do any of this to her 16 month-old sister.

 

I put her into "quiet time" for a while, and she sacked out for a long while. I thought that maybe that was it -- she needed a nap. But she was back in the same form after it.

 

She tried it with DH tonight too, but stopped in her tracks when he responded. And he took her bicycle away for a week (when it's nice, they go for a walk around the neighborhood -- she rides her bike while he walks). The sun rises and sets by him in her world. Which is fine. Every girl should get to be a Daddy's girl when she's little.

 

I understand that I'm the ***** that she has to put up with until he gets home. And that's fine. But she's just been flat-out ballistic lately, and I can't figure it out.

 

Thanks for listening!!

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I'll re-think the amount of schoolwork. I thought that we were doing ok -- she burned through Saxon K and loved it. She asked to do more lessons almost every day and was sooo enthusiastic. Same with OPG. She dragged her feet with handwriting, but that doesn't seem to be as big of an issue lately. But the schoolwork is certainly a factor in our day, so I'll definitely consider all of your advice.

 

But today was crazy with the defiance. It went beyond the defiant "no" thing. She tried to spit at me (couldn't muster it up, but the gesture was unmistakeable). She tried to kick at me. She screamed that she didn't like me, that she didn't care about anything. She spent a ton of time in time-out on the couch (which she made clear SHE DID NOT CARE). The only thing that kept her from being dropped off at DH's place of employment was that she did not do any of this to her 16 month-old sister.

 

She tried it with DH tonight too, but stopped in her tracks when he responded. And he took her bicycle away for a week (when it's nice, they go for a walk around the neighborhood -- she rides her bike while he walks). The sun rises and sets by him in her world. Which is fine. Every girl should get to be a Daddy's girl when she's little.

 

I understand that I'm the ***** that she has to put up with until he gets home. And that's fine. But she's just been flat-out ballistic lately, and I can't figure it out.

 

Thanks for listening!!

 

 

You know, sometimes when my kids were at their worst and I was ready to have them shipped off to Kalamazoo, they would then show an illness.

 

And I think that her age is kind of young for that kind of work. Not saying that intellectually she is not capable. Perhaps maturity wise, she needs more time. I think most kids do. Mine were capable at that age of a lot, but maturity-wise they just didn't need to be doing bookwork. Maybe maturity is the wrong word. My kids are fairly mature, but, well, do you know what I mean here? Or am I totally confusing?

 

Sorry you are having it rough. I have times like that with mine that drive me bonkers. It's good that you are trying to figure it out though. Keep at it and it will work out. You're a good mom. You know your kids. BUt they are hard to get a handle on sometimes, aren't they.:grouphug:

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:iagree: You've gotten good advice here. 4-1/2 is VERY young for daily, structured work. I would put away the books for now, use Jean's ideas for teaching on the sly, and work on your relationship with your dd.

 

It is great for your dd to be her Daddy's girl, but she should NOT be viewing you as the @*# she has to stay with until he gets home - that's really not right. If you really think she looks at you that way more often than not, I would put getting to the bottom of that at the top of your priority list!

 

I know this can be a hard age - up, down, sideways - all in the same five minutes!!! :tongue_smilie: Hang in there!

 

Anne

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4 1/2 yo. [snip] a whole 90 minutes' worth of school maybe.
Unless a child is begging for more work, IMHO 90 minutes is way too much for a 4.5 yo. My oldest is academically advanced and begged to do more at that age, but we never went over an hour a day (not including read alouds). Have you looked into Charlotte Mason? We found a lot of resources at Ambleside. Perhaps short "school" days and more read alouds would help. We skipped the formal narrations at that age, but read many of the books and did nature walks and the like.
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Ok, the soul-searching has been much around here after reading your kind replies after such a trying day!

 

We blew off school completely the next day. It was "Friendship Day" with DD1.

 

Yesterday, we dabbled a bit in school, but very little.

 

Today, she was adament that she did not want to go to soccer. So I decided to pick my battles and let her call the shot on that one. She wanted to go play at the gym instead. (I had already showered and put myself together, so I wasn't going to work out. Hmmmm...two hours of taking care of calls, reading the paper and having a cup of tea... just had to gut it out;)). So we went to the gym instead where she and DD2 could play.

 

We did a tiny bit of math, a tiny bit of phonics, a few minutes of Spanish.

 

DD1 is doing great. I'm glad to learn to LIGHTEN UP NOW, rather than make DD1 and me crazy. I don't know why I was so intent on so much -- likely my own insecurities. But between you guys here, DH and my ever-lovin' mom, I'm learning to back off!

Guess I'll have to find other ways to put the "fun" in dysfunctional!:tongue_smilie:

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