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WWYD if dc has no interest in math...


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Math with my dd11 has been a total drag this year. She is currently working through MM4B, slowly mastering the concepts, but it's been like pulling teeth to get her to focus on math. It is our first year home schooling and I've noticed that most of her math hang ups stem from bad habits picked up in school. Dd had no academic challenges presented in school, and as a result was easily able to coast her way through. She shuts down, deer in the headlights like, when she has to think her way through. This has led to her belief that she is not good in math. She even told me she prefers school because it is easier than homeschooling. I don't know how to help her turn this corner. I have pushed and pushed but the self motivation is just not there. Once she turns on to internal shut down mode, she is not the least bit interested in learning the why's and how's, she just wants to get the answers and move on (and this does not only happen in math....it's any subject that requires effort of thought; as a language arts oriented person though she pushes through those subjects, but struggles the most in math). I would love to hear some BTDT advice on how I could help dd. I'm not planning on switching from MM because she does do well....just wish she were further along. I have allowed her to work through it independently, but now I know she needs a bit more handholding. Also, I am well aware that our issues go way further than dd not being able to grasp math and it can get a bit overwhelming sometimes trying to figure all this stuff out, kwim?

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Hang in there. When we first started I went through a very similar situation with dd11. She was 4th grade and everything in school had always been very easy for her. She is naturally very bright but did not have a very strong work ethic. We fought alot that first year. I think most of it was her just wanting to see how far she could push Mom. we did change math a couple of times because everything seemed to cause a meltdown. However, I began to realize that no matter what we used this was going to happen because it wasn't the program, it was her not wanting to have to work harder. So we pushed through anyway. I did throw in some rewards. When she finished a math assignment she could have 15 minutes on the computer for things like Times Attack. We also broke up some of her assignments throughout the day. She would spend 20 minutes on math in the morning and then stop. After lunch another 20-30 minutes, this seemed to make a difference. 3 years later it has made a huge difference. She has realized the work must be done, and she can either do it and be done or drag it out. Not sure if this is the problem your kiddo is having or not but it may be something to consider. Good luck to you!!

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A couple of my kids can be like this - not wanting to turn on the brain or do any problem that takes more than a split second to think about. I think that's a strength of the MM program, that it requires her to stop and think.

 

Are you having her do all the problems? Is that too many? How about word problems - are they harder, or easier, for her than straight arithmetic? If word problems in a particular section are bogging her down, I'd limit the number you assign her now, and save the rest for later. Or I'd substitute word problems from an earlier chapter, because they are likely to seem much easier.

 

Alternatively, could the topics (in spite of the curriculum making her think) be not quite hard enough? If she already learned some of the topics at school, I probably wouldn't be making her go through every single page of such topics again - I'd probably skip around, making sure holes got filled and then just doing chapter reviews. Maybe she will find it more interesting when she's at a level with topics that seem new and fresh.

 

Dd was a little bit like this, when I pulled her out of school mid-year, this past January. Math was one of the main reasons I pulled her - there was not enough of it going on at school (long story). We had to fill in a lot of holes before we could get her on her way. There were days of slogging and butting heads. Now, six months later, she is cruising through 5B and loves it. It's finally coming together for her (knock on wood - we'll see what happens when I insert some review shortly...).

 

No one is going to be motivated in all subjects. If it requires her to turn on her brain in ways she finds unpleasant, I'd probably want to concentrate even more on getting the cobwebs up there cleaned out on a daily basis.

 

As far as independence goes, my dd tends to swing wildly back and forth between wanting me to sit with her every second and wanting me to not even be in the same room. I leave her assignment on the counter, with all the problems circled that I want her to do (I assign most, but not all). I draw little notes, with pictures of her favorite animals talking ("hoo hoo! Mommy loves you! Read here please!" with an arrow pointing to some instruction that I don't want her to miss). Then she asks for help as needed.

 

Also, I agree with the PPs about adding in anything else she might find interesting, such as the games and activities listed at the beginning of each chapter.

 

ETA: sometimes if she gets bogged down, a fresh presentation helps - instead of using the problems in the workbook, I might print out a worksheet with the same type of problems from the worksheet generator. Then I might do a little lesson on the white board (or use the text instruction), and have her do the worksheet, sometimes more than one worksheet, until it's automatic. I love that worksheet generator - I can't say that I use it a ton, but it's helpful to be able to whip one out on a moment's notice if I think it might help make things clear. I didn't even notice the worksheet generator until a couple months ago. Also, it's fantastic for quick review of arithmetic, if you don't want to pull out a chapter review or cumulative review. It's in the supportive materials folder, and is called Make Extra Worksheets, or something like that.

Edited by wapiti
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I really like the Danica McKellar books on math. They put math concepts into real world situations and explain them in very understandable terms. They are written to appeal to girls (although my older sons have also enjoyed them).

 

Ed Zacarro has a series of math books that we have also enjoyed.

 

You might also look at Marilyn Burns or at Family Math.

 

Don't stop being the "at the elbow" parent if that is where her ability is, just because you think she shouldn't need it because of her age. With my kids, sometimes just being there for them does a lot for their confidence.

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I began to realize that no matter what we used this was going to happen because it wasn't the program, it was her not wanting to have to work harder. So we pushed through anyway.

 

This is exactly why I would not want to deviate from MM... the math program is not the problem. We will work through it anyway too because it does make dd stretch herself, even if she doesn't want to.

 

We use various games like those from the muggins company, using stories like life of Fred to introduce problems. My 12 would still use manipulatives whenever she can.

 

Once in MM5, I plan to introduce LoF 1x/week. In our 5-8 sequence, I have it optioned as our main math program once we are done with MM, providing it's a good match.

 

A couple of my kids can be like this - not wanting to turn on the brain or do any problem that takes more than a split second to think about. I think that's a strength of the MM program, that it requires her to stop and think. I agree, I agree, I agree!!!

 

Are you having her do all the problems? Is that too many? How about word problems - are they harder, or easier, for her than straight arithmetic? If word problems in a particular section are bogging her down, I'd limit the number you assign her now, and save the rest for later. Or I'd substitute word problems from an earlier chapter, because they are likely to seem much easier. I am having her do all the math problems because I want her to internalize the way MM teaches. Word problems pose a great challenge to dd and take her a long time. On occasion, I've instructed that space them out. This did seem to work when we did it.

 

Alternatively, could the topics (in spite of the curriculum making her think) be not quite hard enough? If she already learned some of the topics at school, I probably wouldn't be making her go through every single page of such topics again - I'd probably skip around, making sure holes got filled and then just doing chapter reviews. Maybe she will find it more interesting when she's at a level with topics that seem new and fresh. Only recently (as I look ahead to MM5) have I thought to do what you suggest here. I do intend to implement this idea going forward.

 

Dd was a little bit like this, when I pulled her out of school mid-year, this past January. Math was one of the main reasons I pulled her - there was not enough of it going on at school (long story). We had to fill in a lot of holes before we could get her on her way. There were days of slogging and butting heads. Now, six months later, she is cruising through 5B and loves it. It's finally coming together for her (knock on wood - we'll see what happens when I insert some review shortly...). We pulled both our dd's out this school year for academic reasons, math being a big factor. At the moment it does feel like we're "slogging" through too and only time will tell if this dd will get into a rhythm. I really hope so. Don't get me wrong, it's not all the concepts she's having trouble with. Those that she can do well, she breezes through, but once she's staring at a concept she has not encountered......out goes the light. Sigh.

 

No one is going to be motivated in all subjects. If it requires her to turn on her brain in ways she finds unpleasant, I'd probably want to concentrate even more on getting the cobwebs up there cleaned out on a daily basis.

 

As far as independence goes, my dd tends to swing wildly back and forth between wanting me to sit with her every second and wanting me to not even be in the same room. I leave her assignment on the counter, with all the problems circled that I want her to do (I assign most, but not all). I draw little notes, with pictures of her favorite animals talking ("hoo hoo! Mommy loves you! Read here please!" with an arrow pointing to some instruction that I don't want her to miss). Then she asks for help as needed. I've also come to the realization that dd still needs me there to talk her through some of her lessons. Once we come together for review she is better able to understand concepts that earlier she couldn't figure out for herself. She is an acute auditory learner and has an audiographic (totally made that up) memory. She remembers everything she hears. I suppose I need to play more into her learning style. I thought math would be one of those subjects I could let her loose on. It should have dawned on me that she needed the discourse in math too since most of our curricula is teacher intensive, requiring verbal interaction.

 

Also, I agree with the PPs about adding in anything else she might find interesting, such as the games and activities listed at the beginning of each chapter.

 

ETA: sometimes if she gets bogged down, a fresh presentation helps - instead of using the problems in the workbook, I might print out a worksheet with the same type of problems from the worksheet generator. Then I might do a little lesson on the white board (or use the text instruction), and have her do the worksheet, sometimes more than one worksheet, until it's automatic. I love that worksheet generator - I can't say that I use it a ton, but it's helpful to be able to whip one out on a moment's notice if I think it might help make things clear. I didn't even notice the worksheet generator until a couple months ago. Also, it's fantastic for quick review of arithmetic, if you don't want to pull out a chapter review or cumulative review. It's in the supportive materials folder, and is called Make Extra Worksheets, or something like that.

Just last week, I was :banghead::banghead::banghead: over the chapter on angles. dd just did.not.get.it. I went over to Khan Academy to see what videos he had on the concept. DD came over to see what I was doing and although at first hesitant, was able to answer almost all the practice problems correctly....and they were more difficult than the problem sets in MM. It was totally the presentation that made it click for her.

 

I really like the Danica McKellar books on math. They put math concepts into real world situations and explain them in very understandable terms. They are written to appeal to girls (although my older sons have also enjoyed them).

 

Ed Zacarro has a series of math books that we have also enjoyed.

 

You might also look at Marilyn Burns or at Family Math.

 

Don't stop being the "at the elbow" parent if that is where her ability is, just because you think she shouldn't need it because of her age. With my kids, sometimes just being there for them does a lot for their confidence. Yeah, I need to take this to heart. I made an inaccurate assumption that dd should have been ready for more independent work when clearly she was not.

 

We have all these resources on hand but haven't really used them. I intend to come up with a plan that will incorporate them into our math schedule. I was fearful of bogging down dd with more math, but I see that she could stand to gain a lot from different perspectives.

 

Is she doing all the problems? MM is designed with more problems than you need. What about having her only do half, say just the odds or evens? That might make it less monotonous.

 

I do have her do all the problems. Because math is not dd's strongest subject, I don't feel comfortable skipping problems, unless is a concept she's already encountered and mastered.

 

Thanks to you all for your advice!

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We had the same problem. When ds came home he hated math, thought he was no good at it. So when we began that year I started ds on math concepts he already knew. He slowly regained the confidence he needed to move on and sped through the next two books in the series to get ahead of grade level. I also had him teach me the concepts after he finished each lesson, with me playing stupid and having him break it allllllll down completely. He loved it, but it also made him very aware of what he was doing and why.

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