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That sounds absolutely fascinating.

 

If you are that seriously interested, one of my best friends wrote her sociology dissertation on homeschooling, and how difficult it is for most people to move away from conventional ideas about education.

 

Charlene Bredder, "Doing School" and "Having Fun": Tensions Between Family and School Conceptions of Education, UCSD, 2006.

 

I believe all dissertations from the UC system are now electronically filed, so you should be able to read it on-line. I can check that out if you look for it and can't find it.

 

Thank you! Yes, I absolutely want to read it! I will look right now!

 

I have been thinking about education since I was a student. My first year in college I wrote a paper about schoolphobia. When I began homeschooling, I began reading pretty much anything I could get my hands on. I've read countless books about home education. Then I found Montessori, and have now read countless books about Montessori (including books that my huge university library had in storage LOL!). I have also done a lot of reading in my particular area, second language acquisition, and methods for that. Learning can be so much more!

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Also, I feel a little intimidated about posting on this board. While I am considered a well-educated person by my level of schooling, I know I can't speak intelligently enough for most of the conversations on this board.

 

I'm a high school grad. That's it. I know half my posts contain grammatical errors and lazy spelling mistakes. I know that I'm quite often flat-out wrong but I refuse to be intimidated here.

 

We all have contributions to make, experiences to share. There might be something I can bring to the table that the next lady with years of teaching university literature courses and doing physics experiments in her garage isn't able to, even if it does seem small at the time. And those ladies with years of education and experience seem universally gracious and truly interested in what those of us with less of both have to offer.

 

Granted, this often means I say stupid things but I've long since given up on feeling stupid about saying stupid things. It happens.

 

Down underestimate those ladies and the rest of us by not valuing what you can bring to the discussions. Don't be afraid to speak up. There are a lot of things to learn here but there's also fellowship and a sense of community that you shouldn't miss out on. :)

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I'm a high school grad. That's it. I know half my posts contain grammatical errors and lazy spelling mistakes. I know that I'm quite often flat-out wrong but I refuse to be intimidated here.

 

We all have contributions to make, experiences to share. There might be something I can bring to the table that the next lady with years of teaching university literature courses and doing physics experiments in her garage isn't able to, even if it does seem small at the time. And those ladies with years of education and experience seem universally gracious and truly interested in what those of us with less of both have to offer.

 

Granted, this often means I say stupid things but I've long since given up on feeling stupid about saying stupid things. It happens.

 

Down underestimate those ladies and the rest of us by not valuing what you can bring to the discussions. Don't be afraid to speak up. There are a lot of things to learn here but there's also fellowship and a sense of community that you shouldn't miss out on. :)

 

:iagree: completely!! (and my family will tell you that I say really dumb things all the time!! :D)

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My first year in college I wrote a paper about schoolphobia.

 

 

 

That is a topic I find compelling, as dd fell apart after three months at private school and was refusing to go back. I listened to her and we talked at length about her reasons and I didn't make her go back; but I got huge amounts of pressure to do so, and not only to do so, but as an all-or-nothing kind of thing rather than the slow, half-time return that I had imagined (dd had had mono and was exhausted from that, plus a toxic combination of stress and boredom).

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I'm a high school grad. That's it. I know half my posts contain grammatical errors and lazy spelling mistakes. I know that I'm quite often flat-out wrong but I refuse to be intimidated here.

 

We all have contributions to make, experiences to share. There might be something I can bring to the table that the next lady with years of teaching university literature courses and doing physics experiments in her garage isn't able to, even if it does seem small at the time. And those ladies with years of education and experience seem universally gracious and truly interested in what those of us with less of both have to offer.

 

Granted, this often means I say stupid things but I've long since given up on feeling stupid about saying stupid things. It happens.

 

Down underestimate those ladies and the rest of us by not valuing what you can bring to the discussions. Don't be afraid to speak up. There are a lot of things to learn here but there's also fellowship and a sense of community that you shouldn't miss out on. :)

 

 

:iagree: I like coming to this board because it makes me feel dumb. :lol: I'm neither particularly clever, not well educated, so hanging out here where I am nowhere near the top of the intellectual pecking order gives me faith in the human race. :D

 

Rosie

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We all have contributions to make, experiences to share. There might be something I can bring to the table that the next lady with years of teaching university literature courses and doing physics experiments in her garage isn't able to, even if it does seem small at the time.

 

Absolutely. As one of the people who have taught university level literature classes, I have also often said on the boards that what that gives me is a relatively narrow area of expertise and is NOT a guarantee either of wisdom or even of the skills needed to teach my child. All along in homeschooling, I have honestly, sincerely felt that she has taught me as much or more than I have taught her. Same goes for the exchanges on the boards.

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:iagree: I like coming to this board because it makes me feel dumb. :lol: I'm neither particularly clever, not well educated, so hanging out here where I am nowhere near the top of the intellectual pecking order gives me faith in the human race. :D

 

Rosie

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Bill

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:iagree: completely!! (and my family will tell you that I say really dumb things all the time!! :D)

 

 

I find that very hard to believe!

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That is a topic I find compelling, as dd fell apart after three months at private school and was refusing to go back. I listened to her and we talked at length about her reasons and I didn't make her go back; but I got huge amounts of pressure to do so, and not only to do so, but as an all-or-nothing kind of thing rather than the slow, half-time return that I had imagined (dd had had mono and was exhausted from that, plus a toxic combination of stress and boredom).

 

The research I did was appalling! The treatment universally recommended was sticking the child back in school full-time - a treatment that would NEVER be recommended for adults with phobias! It was understood completely as "separation anxiety" as though school were a totally problem-free, non-threatening, non-complicated place. :tongue_smilie:

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The research I did was appalling! The treatment universally recommended was sticking the child back in school full-time - a treatment that would NEVER be recommended for adults with phobias! It was understood completely as "separation anxiety" as though school were a totally problem-free, non-threatening, non-complicated place. :tongue_smilie:

 

How long ago was this? I wonder whether recommendations have changed? Certainly they had not changed in my particular situation with dd, who didn't really have a phobia precisely, but more an intense aversion to returning to a place that she found stifling and rigid and which was killing her love of everything but physics.

 

One interesting thing that happened with us was that I asked whether they'd had any other kids who didn't want to return to school at some point. Yes, they said, among others (and this was a small school with fewer than 300 kids!!) they had a boy with Asperger's (dd is an Aspie too) who had refused to come to school for ten days. What they had done was urge the parents to not listen to him and to just force him to return, which they had duly done. I think their impression, based on what evidence I know not, was that the kid was manipulating the situation. Apparently they had not done any research on Aspies and school, because if they had, they would have found an almost universal unhappiness and a whole lot of stress for these kids.

 

When I asked whether the boy had readjusted and whether he was happy there, they fudged their answer.

 

What kind of reasoning did you find behind the "sink or swim, face your fears" thinking? I wonder where it originated: with psychologists or with school officials? Does anyone keep statistics on how these kids do once they are forced to return? If you have a few resources to send me off to look at, I'd be very interested.

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:iagree: I like coming to this board because it makes me feel dumb. :lol: I'm neither particularly clever, not well educated, so hanging out here where I am nowhere near the top of the intellectual pecking order gives me faith in the human race. :D

 

Rosie

 

:iagree:

This board MAKES me think...and ask myself hard questions. I love coming here because we can bat around issues...and I find everyones ideas intriguing.

 

Faithe...who says lots of dumb things...but que' cera.....at least we can all laugh about them....:D

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How long ago was this? I wonder whether recommendations have changed? Certainly they had not changed in my particular situation with dd, who didn't really have a phobia precisely, but more an intense aversion to returning to a place that she found stifling and rigid and which was killing her love of everything but physics.

 

What kind of reasoning did you find behind the "sink or swim, face your fears" thinking? I wonder where it originated: with psychologists or with school officials? Does anyone keep statistics on how these kids do once they are forced to return? If you have a few resources to send me off to look at, I'd be very interested.

 

I did this research over 20 years ago - I can only hope and pray that it's more enlightened now, but from your experience, it doesn't sound like it. I will reread my paper tomorrow and see if I can answer your other questions. Every single thing I read immediately thought that it must be a problem in the home - "separation anxiety" or "the child is afraid of what might happen when he's not there" like Mommy might leave or something. Which again, IMO, is just overwhelmingly ridiculous. If you told me that you were afraid of spiders, I wouldn't try to convince you that it's really bunnies you're afraid of! There was no acceptance of what the children were saying AT ALL, and no recognition that school can be a scary, horrible place. (Not that it always is!) I think there is a VERY strong attitude of "Well, I had to sit there and suffer through it, and so you have to also!"

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I didn't read all the posts, but...

 

I will admit to being part of the problem. I've never even read TWTM :tongue_smilie:. I joined here because I wanted to access the FS boards and there was that pesky 50-post requirement, and I got sucked in and swept away. I stay off threads asking for strict WTM advice because I know I can't contribute there.

 

However, I have also removed the ages of my dc from my siggy due to one too many instances of being taken to task for being too rigorous with them (even though I was being dragged along their interest paths, not pushing). :001_huh: I thought rigor was a key word here.

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I will admit to being part of the problem. I've never even read TWTM :tongue_smilie:.

 

LittleIzumi, you should see if your library has a copy of TWTM. It's actually VERY good. It's worth reading. It has a ton of detail in it about what kids could work thru at each level. There's a lot of info about teaching writing, too. Even if you're going to follow a different teaching model, I think you would still gain something from the book.

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I am totally fluffheaded. I'm not homeschooling for academic reasons. Occasionally I have random flashes of wisdom but they are pretty random and I have no idea where they come from. Not from where I normally live, that's for sure. I just had to spend the morning driving around trying to repair my most recent fluff up. I mean well, but that's about all I can say. For years I didn't post here. Finally I was totally desperate for advice and discovered that people were very kind to me, even if I asked stupid questions and couldn't spell and was only mildly curious about education in general and had grave doubts about classical education, especially applied to my own family. And that made me grateful and wish to pay back, and that made me brave enough to actually try to help sometimes. I can't count the number of times people here have stopped me from doing something stupid or ill-thought-out. They wouldn't be able to stop me, though, if I didn't grit my teeth and tell them my plans and problems.

-Nan

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I was on the old boards, a different boardie name then, and fell off when we were in the midst of our intensive home renovation. I rejoined last year and was shocked at how much had changed. For one thing, as a classical homeschooler, I was now in the minority and quickly found out that one had to be very careful how one describes your own homeschool philosophy, goals, and path to those goals. On the old board, this was not so. I miss some of the old boardies whose children graduated and they chose to move on. They were there when I first planned a high school path for dd and their advice was invaluable.

 

I now find that I write responses to threads and then turn around and delete as many as I actually post. I do want to be helpful when I can, but on the other hand, it's so easy to be jumped on for being a classical homeschooler and I end up, some days more than others, with cold feet. I have brave moments; I've recently contributed to a couple of the more dramatic threads on dumbing-down, etc. But, I do find myself editing far more (probably a good thing :001_smile:) and sharing much less of what we did with dd and are doing with ds, then I could.

 

Faith

 

Faith ..... it's a sad day for me reading that you feel this way. :sad:

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This thread made me think of this article:

 

http://creation.com/a-balanced-classical-model-tos-talks-with-susan-wise-bauer

 

I think "balance" is the operative word here. I think there's a fine line between relaxed homeschooling and carelessness at one end of the spectrum, and there's a similar fine line between rigor and elitism at the other end.

 

very well said

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I'm so thankful for these boards. I'm not here much anymore, but they filled a HUGE need in my life when I first started down the WTM path 10+ years ago. I'm thankful for how Susan has always allowed these boards to be a place for honest discussion (no matter how ridiculous some of the conversations have been) even when it is against some of her own work! The things I learned, and the friends that I have made here are some of my best memories of homeschooling!!

 

And, I will proudly say that after 9 years of homeschooling WTM style, we are still staying true to the goals and (even the rigor) methods set out in the book! It has served us very well so far, and I have no desire to stop now! I remember wondering when we started why so many people quit the WTM methods at or before the rhetoric stage. We have put so much time/effort into getting our kids ready for this stage that I can't wait to tackle the rhetoric stage this next year!! :001_smile:

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I remember wondering when we started why so many people quit the WTM methods at or before the rhetoric stage. We have put so much time/effort into getting our kids ready for this stage that I can't wait to tackle the rhetoric stage this next year!! :001_smile:

 

That is so nice to hear, Mindy. And just remember that there are a group of us who are still hanging out to hold hands and give advice when needed.

 

Best regards,

Jane

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I'm so thankful for these boards. I'm not here much anymore, but they filled a HUGE need in my life when I first started down the WTM path 10+ years ago. I'm thankful for how Susan has always allowed these boards to be a place for honest discussion (no matter how ridiculous some of the conversations have been) even when it is against some of her own work! The things I learned, and the friends that I have made here are some of my best memories of homeschooling!!

 

And, I will proudly say that after 9 years of homeschooling WTM style, we are still staying true to the goals and (even the rigor) methods set out in the book! It has served us very well so far, and I have no desire to stop now! I remember wondering when we started why so many people quit the WTM methods at or before the rhetoric stage. We have put so much time/effort into getting our kids ready for this stage that I can't wait to tackle the rhetoric stage this next year!! :001_smile:

 

Ditto! I'm extremely thankful for this path we discovered years ago.

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I know I still have a long way to go before officially starting school with dd. I have read most of the first edition of TWTM and like a lot of it. I want to give dd a very rigorous education. I don't know if it will be by the book or some variation thereof. Dh and I are very strong in math and sciences and both feel that those topics are extremely important and we also want to focus on teaching leadership. I do hope in a few years that there will be the strict classical families still actively involved in the board.

 

I do spend time reading aloud classics to dd that I never read. I also spend time reading the KJV of the bible to her. I know she doesn't understand a lot of the content yet, but she gets to hear me read and she gets exposed to a lot of vocabulary and well written works of literature. It gives me a chance to screen stuff and decide what I like and what I don't and what I hope that dd will get out of it if she reads that piece of literature in the future. I have started to write down my thoughts on books after I finish reading them, just for my future reference.

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Well said, Rosie. :iagree: This board is often the kick in the behind I need to push on; it reminds me of the old format and all the amazing discussions.

 

:iagree: I like coming to this board because it makes me feel dumb. :lol: I'm neither particularly clever, not well educated, so hanging out here where I am nowhere near the top of the intellectual pecking order gives me faith in the human race. :D

 

Rosie

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Big Cleansing Breath to dive in!

 

I love this board. It is a little addictive and has given ME a huge education. I was not raised in a very intellectual home. I am not an intellectual person. I aspire for my kids to be more so. This board has given me so much wisdom on how to stretch my teaching and I am very thankful for it. I even bought the WTM book and am reading it. Thank you to all you purists who have taught me so much.:001_smile:

 

I can see how frustrating it is to feel you have to become "politically correct" as far as your teaching style. You feel you have to kind of adjust your answers so as not to offend or get attacked. That is a sad thing. It seems like it should be some kind of a law of thermodynamics (for lack of a better comparison--I think of it like entrophy) when it comes to any kind of higher calling of any kind. I find that it is true with the Christian side of homeschooling. From MY point of view homeschooling was a haven for Christians to .....be Christians. I find on these boards that it is not ok to be too Christian either. Any kind of strong stand or ideal eventually gets worn down (not just on this board--but anywhere) and people are forced to soften thier stand so everyone feels good and no one gets thier feathers ruffled. It is just the way of the world anymore. Everyone (with boards like this and facebook and blogs) is allowed thier opinion on everything and people are easily offended what with all the political correctness going around. It is like a public school classroom where everyone gets brought down to a level playing field. I am not sure what is to be done with that--it is just an observation I have made. I don't mean to offend anyone (here we go again--I know I have stepped on toes and there are many non-Christians on here who are getting ruffled!) but this is the truth according to me.:tongue_smilie: You don't have to agree with me but I am entitled to my opinion!

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I was not able to find the dissertation online from:

 

Charlene Bredder

 

If anyone happens to locate it, (I'd like to read it), could you provide a path on how to find it?

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