Alex Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Salvete omnes, I posted this message in another Latin forum, but I would value feedback from this group as well. In the fall, I will begin Familia Romana with my eight-year-old son, whom we homeschool. I work fulltime (my wife does everything but Latin), and I will be teaching him primarily on Saturdays. We have a big block of time on Saturday, and then I will need to follow up with very short sessions in the evenings during the week. Is anyone else homeschooling a child this age? Is anyone else homeschooling younger children in general? I am wondering about pacing and breaking lessons up. It seems to me there are some obvious chunks: Capitulum Lectio I Lectio II Lectio III Grammatica Latina (perhaps a review session when all Lectiones are complete) Pensum A Pensum B Pensum C Exercitia Latina Keyed to the Lectiones and the Grammatica Colloquia Personarum Given his age, I am inclined to spend one week on each Lectio, really digging into it on Saturday morning. Then, during the week, we can do the Exercitia in the evenings for our current Lectio. That will take us through weeks 1 to 3. On the fourth week, we can do the Grammatica Latina do the Pensa together orally. In the evenings of the fourth week, we can review the Pensa and do the Exercitia associated with the Grammatica. For fun, we can work in the Colloquia Personarum at any stage toward the end of our work. At this rate, we will cover about one Capitulum per month. That probably will translate to 9 or 10 lessons a year. As he gets older, we may pick up this leisurely pace. I anticipate getting through the entire Familia Romana in 3 to 4 years. At that point, my son will be in either 6th or 7th grade, and ready for the next level or something new. I would be grateful for any thoughts from those of you teaching young children. Is this pace reasonable? Gratias vobis ago. Valete, Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyR Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Salve, Well I'm all for a slow approach at this age . I too have an 8yr old that I homeschool ( along with a 10 year old as well and a 5yr old ) . We are using Prima Latina and its really nicely laid out for us moms who have never learned Latin :>) I would work at his pace . Like Plaid Dad had said to me , its about mastery . If he is coming up to you saying " I already know that , dad . " Then well its time to move on . You can work as slow as or as fast as he's willing . I'm not sure how many parents here start with Lingua Latina with their 8yr olds , nor am I familiar enough with the program to comment. Maybe those parents will be around soon . As long as you go in with the expectation to take it slowly when needed then your already on a good start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Lynx Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Salve! I'm waiting for Plaid Dad to weigh in. I started LL with a 9 year old, last year. It quickly got to be too much for him, and we stopped. However, I did not move as slowly as you are planning to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Lynx Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted May 19, 2008 Author Share Posted May 19, 2008 I have some Latin proficiency myself, so I am not put off by keeping a dozen or so lessons ahead of my son. Having just gone through the first 10 lessons in LL, I can see how it would quickly become too much for a young child at almost any pace. That was my thinking behind covering only 9 or 10 lessons a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaNY Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 I have some Latin proficiency myself, so I am not put off by keeping a dozen or so lessons ahead of my son. Having just gone through the first 10 lessons in LL, I can see how it would quickly become too much for a young child at almost any pace. That was my thinking behind covering only 9 or 10 lessons a year. Yes, and once you hit the 20's, I think you will see that it may prove difficult to manage with a younger student. I know of a teacher on the Oerberg list who takes four years to do LL with middle school/jr. high students. LL encompasses a good three years of hs Latin, IMO. Many teachers hit snags in the early capitula with explaining the genitive. It is sometimes difficult for very young students to grasp. Heavy use of drawings and "acting out" are helpful in conveying some of the grammar and vocabulary concepts. You can further extend your lessons by making use of the Fabellae Latinae which are available as a free download on the Focus Publishing site. The stories coincide with each capitula, giving further practice with vocabulary and grammar. I would certainly give your pacing a try with your ds. You will give him a good start in reading "Latin as Latin", thereby avoiding the common problem of re-teaching grammar/translation students to avoid trying to turn Latin into English in their heads all of the time. Personally, I would not spend inordinate amounts of time doing grammar with such a young student. Instead, I would just read, read, read. The day will come when he will begin to ask questions about the grammar, and then you can bring in those grammar lessons. :001_smile: Plaid Dad is using this with his younger dd, so I know he has a lot of first-hand experience with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74Heaven Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 We did Latina Christian I & II, starting about 4years ago. I now strongly recommend Prima Latina til about 4th grade. IOW, in grades K-3 do Prima Latina. Here's what I found. We did LCI the first year with a 2nd, 5th & 7th grader. All did very well. The next year, we did LCII with a 3rd, 6th & 8th. The 3rd grader grew to hate Latin and really just was in over her head. The grammar was challenging because I wasn't tieing it in to English at all. The next year, I started my (advanced) 2nd grade son in LCI. He has done very well, but has not enjoyed it and has required a lot of pep talks and encouragement and just plain old nagging and discipline by Mom. Then, I saw Prima Latina used in a co op we attend in grades 1-2. It was soo much "gentler" then LCI. It would have been a much better "start" for a young or reluctant child. IT also dovetails nicely with LCI so that a lot of Prima Latina will then be reviewed in LCI, strenthening the foundation for further LCI. I will stay with the "gentler" Prima Latina before age 8 from now on :). lisaj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaNY Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 I now strongly recommend Prima Latina til about 4th grade. IOW, in grades K-3 do Prima Latina. Lisa, this is a good suggestion for those following the standard grammar/translation approach, but LL takes the natural/immersion approach, which appeals to those who prefer a reading-based Latin program. Many choose to introduce Latin via reading, and not via the grammar of Latin. I am using a combination of the two approaches w/my dd, because she prefers it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaNY Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Alex, whatever you decide to do, please post back here and let us know how things go next year. It is always helpful to know how others are doing with Lingua Latina. There are so many different ways of approaching this text. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latinteach Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 There's a listserv for teachers and families working through Oerberg's Latina Lingua. Here's the link to register for it: http://nxport.com/mailman/listinfo/oerberg/ Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted May 19, 2008 Author Share Posted May 19, 2008 Thanks for the tip on the listserve, latinteach. I actually posted there as well, and got some great feedback. Their perspective is very different, however, with a real mix of homeschoolers and classroom teachers. Still, a great perspective to draw on. LisaNY and others--of course I'll report in! It is the least we can do for each other, especially when I get such great help here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Lynx Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 I agree. I use a combination of approaches, and LC II at 3rd grade would *never* have worked for any of my kids. If using that series, I'd start wtih LC I in 3rd (I have done so). But even so, my student wasn't really ready for LC II in 4th, so we did LfC A instead. I personally don't like Prima for any but the youngest students. But as Lisa says, LL is a very different method. And I agree, to, that at a young age I'd focus on as much reading comprehension as possible, and leave the grammar until later. This may mean not completing all of the exercises, the ones that explicitly deal wtih grammar. Alex, I forgot to mention one thing I'm doing with my 10 and 12 year olds - after studying a capitulum for awhile, I am having them do a written narration. (They already do an oral narration of sorts, when I ask them the chapter questions.) If your student is up for that, it's a great way to get their brains thinking in the language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74Heaven Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Lisa, this is a good suggestion for those following the standard grammar/translation approach, but LL takes the natural/immersion approach, which appeals to those who prefer a reading-based Latin program. Many choose to introduce Latin via reading, and not via the grammar of Latin. I am using a combination of the two approaches w/my dd, because she prefers it that way. I knew the Latin approach of the original poster was "different" but I didn't know how different - so I appreciate the gentle correction. What I probably should have said, was that I have found for most young Latin students, the "more gentle" introduction of Prima Latina is good. IOW, start gentle and go from there :). If you or anyone wants to share a little about the "reading-based" Latin approach, I'd love to learn more :). Thanks again, I learn so much on these boards. Lisaj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in SW WA Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 Alex, I read your question on the other Latin list. I'm looking forward to hearing how you're doing w/ your 8 year old student. I wish my hubby could help out w/ Latin (no complaints -- he does math w/ the kiddos). :) My kids are starting Lingua Latina w/ Mr. Spotts at the The Potters School online school next year. They will be 11 & 13. I'm nervous, but willing to give it a shot. Keep us posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaNY Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 I knew the Latin approach of the original poster was "different" but I didn't know how different - so I appreciate the gentle correction. What I probably should have said, was that I have found for most young Latin students, the "more gentle" introduction of Prima Latina is good. IOW, start gentle and go from there :). If you or anyone wants to share a little about the "reading-based" Latin approach, I'd love to learn more :). Thanks again, I learn so much on these boards. Lisaj Lisa, if you do a search for Lingua Latina or Henle, you will find lots of info on the reading-based method in combination with Henle. If you don't find specific answers to your questions, I'd be happy to help. (as I am sure others will as well) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latinteach Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 If you or anyone wants to share a little about the "reading-based" Latin approach, I'd love to learn more :).Thanks again, I learn so much on these boards. Lisaj Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata by Hans Oerberg is actually classified as "Direct Method," not the "Reading Method." "The Direct Method" is an immersion method. Lingua Latina actually does, at times, deductively teach the grammar, but the lessons are in Latin, not English. The material is presented inductively, but Oerberg also presents it deductively as well in Latin. "The Reading Method" is an inductive method. Some people think that grammar is ignored by Reading textbooks, but this is not true. See the Scope and Sequence for Cambridge, for example, and the grammar is carefully graded. The Reading Method seeks to teach students the grammar in the context of its syntax. Cambridge seeks to teach students sentence structure at the same time it is teaching grammar. If someone told you that there's no such thing as sentence structure in Latin, that it all depends on the inflections, they weren't really telling you the whole truth. Word order has a lot to do with emphasis -- what the writer or speaker is emphasizing -- and readers need to be able to recognizes phrases and clauses within sentences. See Ginny's article: http://www.txclassics.org/ginny_articles1.htm -- it's really good information no matter which of the 3 methods (and there are actually more, but these are the 3 main methods for Classicists) you use. Ginny also made a free reading card with the rules she mentions which you can download from the University of Georgia here http://www.classics.uga.edu/courses/latn4770/miscellanea.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyR Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 I went to the website to check this program out but saw no samples . I am thinking you need some sort of Latin experience to teach this yourself ? Plus I know that the immersion type programs for some reason don't work at all for my daughters. We tried it with Powerglide Jr. and it was a total flop . They learned nothing from it . But they've learned tons already 3 lessons into PL . I'll have to respectively disagree with Mama Linx on one point about Prima Latina . My 10yr old has started with this along side her sister and is doing wonderfully . The pace of Prima Latina has made her love to learn Latin so its not just best suited for the youngest of students either . I could never imagine putting my almost 9 year old in LC1 right now . The amount of work would blow her mind . In my opinion Prima Latina gently introduces Latin so that children are comfortable with it so they are more confident when they do pick up the pace in LC 1. But that's just my dull two cents . Now I'm not sure which is method is better but I'm amazed at how well my daughters are learning Latin from Prima Latina and I love the fact they have a DVD program for the unexperienced Latin Mom . Can anyone share more about Lingua Latina ? I didn't get much from their website . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaid Dad Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 I've really only just begun Familia Romana with my dd and we're taking it very slowly. She had completed PL, LC I, and most of Lively Latin I before we picked up Oerberg, and I gave it to her as a change of pace. I don't expect that she's going to be able to handle the grammar much beyond chap. 5 or 6 in the coming year, but that's fine. We're in this for the long haul. We will probably be starting with CW Aesop this year, too, so there will be some reinforcement in grammar there as well. A few things I've been doing to adapt the book for use with a young child: * focusing on oral work, especially comprehension questions (Pensum C type) * retyping the Exercitia with extra space between the lines to accommodate little kid handwriting * making heavy use of the Colloquia and Fabellae supplements (my dd loves the humor in the dialogs) * doing extra culture and history readings in English from To Be a Roman, the Roman Mysteries series, and other children's books I also teach the book to homeschoolers ranging from age 9 to adult. These are families that want their children to be able to read Latin literature eventually, both classical and medieval. The younger kids do move quite slowly through the text (ca. 8 chapters this year) and I have to teach English grammar from the ground up to most of them. I have them for only one hour a week, and then they work through any written assignments with their parents. I ask them to read and/or listen to the current chapter (or lectio) plus one of the older chapters every day; I've found that "overlearning" really helps them get the forms and vocabulary down almost without realizing it's happening. They are getting the language in their ears. HTH! Please do let us know how things go. I'll be blogging our experiences when we start up again in the summer. My dd may also be doing Latin lessons in the fall with the younger siblings of my current students - the details are still being worked out. ETA: For Alex, Tracy, and anyone else, there have been lots of threads about Lingua Latina over the last few months. If you do a search for "Oerberg" or "Lingua Latina," you're sure to turn them up. Many of the basic questions about the program are answered there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted May 20, 2008 Author Share Posted May 20, 2008 Plaid Dad: Thanks for weighing in. Like you, I am heavily stressing the oral exercises. I am inclined even to work the Exercitia orally. Having only one student and having him all week affords me that luxury! We also use a variety of non-language resources for history and culture. We did some Roman Mysteries, Detectives in Togas, Famous Men of Rome, et cetera. Plus, of course, he gets a giant dose from SOTW. Working through about 9 lessons a year, give or take, we will complete Familia Romana by the end of 6th grade, when my son will be just turning 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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