Ugh... Puerto Rico is a part of the U.S.

[QueenCat]

Last night, I listened to an "educated" neighbor (educated as in a college graduate) complain about how another neighbor should feel lucky to be allowed to serve in our military. I asked her why. She said "Because he gets to be a citizen with service in our military, since he came here from P.R, I'm sure that's why he's serving". My response was something along the lines of "Puerto Ricans are citizens of the U.S. upon birth since they're a U.S. territory". Her response "Oh, I don't think so." Her husband "Dear wife, you seriously don't know this?". She walks away like we're crazy, comes back 10 minutes later, telling us she googled it, and she was wrong. She is astonished, as is her husband. This is a basic fact about the U.S. so I'm always astounded when people don't know it!!!!

[Belacqua]

Gracious. At least she was big enough to check and admit her mistake.

 

Wasn't there a big to-do some years ago when people from New Mexico weren't allowed to buy Olympics tickets because they "weren't US residents"?

[QueenCat]

Wasn't there a big to-do some years ago when people from New Mexico weren't allowed to buy Olympics tickets because they "weren't US residents"?

 

I don't remember that one...

[Mrs Mungo]

I agree that it is crazy people don't understand how that works.

 

BUT, I *also* think in most cases where the military is partly being used a path to citizenship it is a mutually beneficial relationship. I don't think you should discount someone's willingness to serve the US just because they weren't born a citizen.

[Aubrey]

Not to defend ignorance, but we were never taught that PR was a US territory when I was in school. I mean, I noticed the fact on a map once, but other than that, I don't guess I'd know, either.

[kristinannie]

Gracious. At least she was big enough to check and admit her mistake.

 

Wasn't there a big to-do some years ago when people from New Mexico weren't allowed to buy Olympics tickets because they "weren't US residents"?

 

 

 

I had to laugh when I read this. I lived in NM for awhile and we got the magazine for NM (I can't remember what it is called). Anyway, there was always a section where people would email instances where people didn't think NM was in the USA. People would be charged international shipping, etc. I worry a lot about the holes I will leave in my kids' educations, but I know they won't have holes as big as the average American!!!!!!!

[happyhomemaker25]

Not to defend ignorance, but we were never taught that PR was a US territory when I was in school. I mean, I noticed the fact on a map once, but other than that, I don't guess I'd know, either.

 

Yep. I did not know until we started homeschooling. I felt like an ignoramoose. :)

I figured it was just me not paying attention in school.

[Cinder]

Wasn't there a big to-do some years ago when people from New Mexico weren't allowed to buy Olympics tickets because they "weren't US residents"?

 

I remember hearing about that.

 

I can imagine people not realizing PR is part of the US. Years ago I was asked where I was from. Hawaii. The person's response: "That's a nice country." :lol:

[Aelwydd]

Yes, full citizens, but no right to vote.

 

So, you know, Puerto Ricans are citizens who regularly get taxed, and serve and die in its military, but yet have no representation.

 

It would have been poetic justice had they ever sent a Declaration to Prez. Bush. You know...the whole "King George" thing.

[Alicia64]

Not to defend ignorance, but we were never taught that PR was a US territory when I was in school. I mean, I noticed the fact on a map once, but other than that, I don't guess I'd know, either.

 

I was thinking the same thing. The only reason I even know about territories is because my dad worked in Guam for the Feds.

 

We all have holes here and there. . . I don't think it exactly proves anything. I mean, we're all clear that the education system is terrible and it's not this person's fault for not knowing something like this.

 

I'll admit: I'd heard of the Magna Carta forever, but I couldn't tell you what the heck it was until I read all about it in SOTW. Does that make me ignorant?

 

 

Alley

[Punchie]

Wasn't there a big to-do some years ago when people from New Mexico weren't allowed to buy Olympics tickets because they "weren't US residents"?

 

I grew up in NM. I remember this b/c it happened to some of our family friends. Oh the stories I could tell about ppls' ignorance about the fact that NM is indeed a state, and yes...I do speak English.

 

I agree. It's refreshing that she was gracious enough to admit her mistake. I think a lot of ppl don't know about our protectorates or territories.

[Mom in High Heels]

While Puerto Ricans technically are US citizens they cannot vote in US elections. A lot of military members from PR can (and do) change their residency to the state they're stationed in and qualify to vote.

[wapiti]

I *also* think in most cases where the military is partly being used a path to citizenship it is a mutually beneficial relationship. I don't think you should discount someone's willingness to serve the US just because they weren't born a citizen.

 

:iagree: That's how my FIL ended up in the US from eastern Europe some fifty years ago (long story). After arriving in the US, he married and had kids, and instilled in them a great devotion to their country (the kids include a West Point grad, another in the SF and a spouse of an Army officer).

[Aelwydd]

Not to defend ignorance, but we were never taught that PR was a US territory when I was in school. I mean, I noticed the fact on a map once, but other than that, I don't guess I'd know, either.

 

I'm not surprised. Last week, I had to explain to my younger sister (who has a Bachelor's degree), what the "Aryan race" was, in context of Nazi Germany. She'd never heard of it.

 

Texas ps are really....um, weak, when it comes to history. I was educated in northern VA, and then later in NC, and count myself lucky (yes, we were taught US territories and protectorates in the 4th grade, when we learned all 50 State names and capitols).

[QueenCat]

I agree that it is crazy people don't understand how that works.

 

BUT, I *also* think in most cases where the military is partly being used a path to citizenship it is a mutually beneficial relationship. I don't think you should discount someone's willingness to serve the US just because they weren't born a citizen.

 

:iagree: I didn't think he was serving to gain citizenship, the neighbor did. I think it is a perfectly legitimate and honorable way to gain citizenship. But in this case, he was a citizen at birth :)

[Mrs Mungo]

I'll admit: I'd heard of the Magna Carta forever, but I couldn't tell you what the heck it was until I read all about it in SOTW. Does that make me ignorant?

 

Errr...technically, yes, because to be ignorant of something means that you didn't know about it. It doesn't have anything to do with intelligence.

 

Residents of PR cannot vote, it's true. But, my understanding is once they reside in the US they can vote.

[Aelwydd]

But in this case, he was a citizen at birth :)

 

Perhaps we should demand to see his live birth certificate, just to make sure. :D

[Mrs Mungo]

:iagree: I didn't think he was serving to gain citizenship, the neighbor did. I think it is a perfectly legitimate and honorable way to gain citizenship. But in this case, he was a citizen at birth :)

 

Yes, I understood that bit. :)

[QueenCat]

Yes, full citizens, but no right to vote.

 

So, you know, Puerto Ricans are citizens who regularly get taxed, and serve and die in its military, but yet have no representation.

 

 

That's a problem too. Residents of Washington D.C. have non-voting representation in Congress. Another problem, imho.

[Aelwydd]

That's a problem too. Residents of Washington D.C. have non-voting representation in Congress. Another problem, imho.

 

Aye.

[QueenCat]

We all have holes here and there. . . I don't think it exactly proves anything. I mean, we're all clear that the education system is terrible and it's not this person's fault for not knowing something like this.

 

 

Might not be her fault but to me, it's a basic part of an U.S. govt. course... Something you learn even earlier, in U.S. geography, history...

[lovelaughs_times_three]

Not to defend ignorance, but we were never taught that PR was a US territory when I was in school. I mean, I noticed the fact on a map once, but other than that, I don't guess I'd know, either.

 

So glad I'm not the only one! I was embarrassed to answer this thread! I can't even say I noticed it on a map!!! Sheesh! :blushing:

 

Thanks OP for teaching me something! :tongue_smilie: :D

[mommaduck]

I agree that it is crazy people don't understand how that works.

 

BUT, I *also* think in most cases where the military is partly being used a path to citizenship it is a mutually beneficial relationship. I don't think you should discount someone's willingness to serve the US just because they weren't born a citizen.

:iagree:

Not to defend ignorance, but we were never taught that PR was a US territory when I was in school. I mean, I noticed the fact on a map once, but other than that, I don't guess I'd know, either.

 

It wasn't taught when I was in school either. I only learned about it through the news, parents, and reading on my own (more of a gradual learning than being taught along with other facts). And the only reason I understand the relationship of a territory to the US is because I used to live in one (Guam).

[Veritaserum]

I learned this at school in 5th grade--not from a teacher or a textbook. One of my classmates Puerto Rican. Since we lived on the border with Mexico, I erroneously assumed that his family was of Mexican origin. He explained that PR is a US territory and that he was born a US citizen.

[WishboneDawn]

I did know this. Not because I'm a super smart Canadian but because I was a baseball fan at one point. LOTS of Puerto Rican baseball players. :)

[Ravin]

After a few of my experiences in college, nothing people don't know surprises me anymore. I learned more about Mexico, the Mexican revolution, and Texas independence in one case study in an anthropology course in college than I did in all of elementary and secondary school, despite having had several years of Texas state history, including the part where Texas was PART of Mexico.

 

I also took a 400 level linguistics class with a number of people who didn't know the basic parts of speech. The instructor had to waste lecture time teaching basic grammar to make up their lack.:glare:

[LizzyBee]

Yes, full citizens, but no right to vote.

 

So, you know, Puerto Ricans are citizens who regularly get taxed, and serve and die in its military, but yet have no representation.

 

It would have been poetic justice had they ever sent a Declaration to Prez. Bush. You know...the whole "King George" thing.

 

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc901.html

 

Puerto Ricans don't pay federal income tax unless they have income from outside Puerto Rico or are US government employees. That's why they don't have the right to vote.

[cathmom]

Many people don't know this. I would not hold it against someone!

[Rosie_0801]

Yes, full citizens, but no right to vote.

 

So, you know, Puerto Ricans are citizens who regularly get taxed, and serve and die in its military, but yet have no representation.

 

It would have been poetic justice had they ever sent a Declaration to Prez. Bush. You know...the whole "King George" thing.

 

I thought they voted not to become an actual state a few years back?

 

Rosie

[fairfarmhand]

Not to defend ignorance, but we were never taught that PR was a US territory when I was in school. I mean, I noticed the fact on a map once, but other than that, I don't guess I'd know, either.

 

 

oo I did learn this....we covered it in the Post World War segment.

[Aubrey]

oo I did learn this....we covered it in the Post World War segment.

 

We never got to the Civil War or beyond. But...not to defend ps, either, lol...I did move around a lot. Dh thinks I just magically kept getting TX hist & Greek mythology. :lol:

[Belacqua]

We never got to the Civil War or beyond. But...not to defend ps, either, lol...I did move around a lot. Dh thinks I just magically kept getting TX hist & Greek mythology. :lol:

 

That made me laugh aloud. :) My husband can't get over how much time my schools spent on the French and Indian War (and how little time on just about every other historical event or period). And I didn't even move! I suppose every school district has its pet topics?

[amey311]

Gracious. At least she was big enough to check and admit her mistake.

 

Wasn't there a big to-do some years ago when people from New Mexico weren't allowed to buy Olympics tickets because they "weren't US residents"?

 

I remember reading a "Reader's Digest" anecdote ("Life in These United States" or something) where a caller from New Mexico was trying to buy Olympics tickets and the person at the call center told him that he had to go thru his home country. When he argued that he was from NEW MEXICO, a US state, the call center person replied "New Mexico, Old Mexico, it doesn't really matter. You have to go thru your home country."

 

DH lived with a guy from Hawaii for a while and he was forever having to tell postal workers that No, he did NOT have to use airmail stamps to send letters home. One of them even said "but your mail has to go by plane, that means you need an airmail stamp." :001_huh:

[QueenCat]

Many people don't know this. I would not hold it against someone!

 

I did not hold it against her! I was quite surprised though, as I thought it was common knowledge. Apparently, I was wrong.

[Alicia64]

Errr...technically, yes, because to be ignorant of something means that you didn't know about it. It doesn't have anything to do with intelligence.

 

Even as I wrote this I knew someone would catch me on this. It seems like the word "ignorant" means stupid these days when, in fact, it really means you simply don't know something.

 

I knew that! :)

 

Alley

[LaxMom]

I once had a very weird conversation with a woman who wanted to know if I was here on a student visa. From Maine. She then exclaimed how proud my parents must be that I am a citizen. I said I didn't think they'd thought twice about it, being citizens themselves. She wanted to know where they were from (Maine) and when they became citizens (birth).

 

People are absurd. I can almost get the not understanding the nuances of territories, or thinking there may be special postage for places off the mainland (ok, not at the PO, but there are lot of companies / products only ship to the mainland 48), but MAINE? Good grief.

[MariannNOVA]

A few years ago, an associate and his wife returned from a vacation in Hawaii. Someone in the office was asking how the trip was and she asked: 'Were there alot of Americans there?' :001_huh:

[Jean in Newcastle]

I knew that Puerto Rico was a territory, but I have to admit to being fuzzy about what came with territory status. I didn't know that it came with citizenship. I guess I must have thought that there was some kind of special territory"ship".

[Lady Dove]

I actually didn't know that until college! Of course, it was probably mentioned somewhere in school, it wasn't a huge deal. I studied an entire chapter on Puerto Rico in college and was astounded at what I didn't know!

[Lady Dove]

A few years ago, an associate and his wife returned from a vacation in Hawaii. Someone in the office was asking how the trip was and she asked: 'Were there alot of Americans there?' :001_huh:

 

LOL!:lol: That's hilarious!

[Aggie]

I thought they voted not to become an actual state a few years back?

 

Rosie

 

When we lived on Guam, 10 years ago, there was a loud anti-statehood movement. One of their signs on the island was:

 

Statehood = no more cock-fighting

 

It's my understanding that any tax dollars Guam and PR collect stay on the island, and we send additional tax money to them.

 

They also have a representative in Congress, but s/he is not a voting member.

 

It's not a bad deal for either the territory or the US.:001_smile:

[gardening momma]

It wasn't taught when I was in school either. I only learned about it through the news, parents, and reading on my own (more of a gradual learning than being taught along with other facts).

I think this is how I learned about PR too, sometime after high school. That's not to say that it wasn't taught at my school--there's plenty I just don't remember.

[EmilyinND]

People would be charged international shipping, etc. I worry a lot about the holes I will leave in my kids' educations, but I know they won't have holes as big as the average American!!!!!!!

 

WOW! Just...wow!:blink::lol:

[Wheres Toto]

I thought they voted not to become an actual state a few years back?

 

Rosie

 

I think this is when I learned that it was a territory - it was in the news a lot when this happened and there was a lot of explanation of what their current status was, and how it would change if they became a state.

 

I don't think I ever learned much about the US territories. Only PR because it almost became a state - a lot of people seemed to think it would.

[mlbuchina]

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc901.html

 

Puerto Ricans don't pay federal income tax unless they have income from outside Puerto Rico or are US government employees. That's why they don't have the right to vote.

 

I thought they voted not to become an actual state a few years back?

 

Rosie

 

I seem to kinda remember something about them voting to not become a state quite a few years ago. I don't think not paying federal taxes is the reason they can't vote, though. I am extremely ignorant when it comes to US territories. I can find them on the map, but I have no idea what the benefits are to having them.:D

[TracieT]

Never learned a thing about PR in school. I think I figured it out from the Miss America Pageant. :001_huh:

 

I also never learned about WWI, Korean War or Vietnam and I'm still bitter about that.

[Aelwydd]

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc901.html

 

Puerto Ricans don't pay federal income tax unless they have income from outside Puerto Rico or are US government employees. That's why they don't have the right to vote.

 

 

Puerto Ricans pay import/export taxes, commodity taxes, and Medicare/Social Security taxes, all of which go to the U.S. federal government. Puerto Rico paid almost 4 billion in taxes to the U.S. government in 2009.

 

The bottom line: Puerto Ricans pay taxes to a government wherein they do not have representation.

[zaichiki]

It's my understanding that any tax dollars Guam and PR collect stay on the island, and we send additional tax money to them.

 

They also have a representative in Congress, but s/he is not a voting member.

 

It's not a bad deal for either the territory or the US.:001_smile:

 

I don't know a lot about what comes with being a territory, so I'm learning a lot with this thread. Can you tell us more about the perks the US gets from the relationship? (I think I understand that the residents of PR get citizenship, military protection, money from the US govt., and social security. Am I right?) Why did they not want to become a state?

Edited June 23, 2011 by zaichiki

[pqr]

When we lived on Guam, 10 years ago, there was a loud anti-statehood movement. One of their signs on the island was:

 

Statehood = no more cock-fighting

 

It's my understanding that any tax dollars Guam and PR collect stay on the island, and we send additional tax money to them.

 

They also have a representative in Congress, but s/he is not a voting member.

 

It's not a bad deal for either the territory or the US.:001_smile:

 

...but remember they run the risk of capsizing due to the large US military presence.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNZczIgVXjg

[LizzyBee]

Puerto Ricans pay import/export taxes, commodity taxes, and Medicare/Social Security taxes, all of which go to the U.S. federal government. Puerto Rico paid almost 4 billion in taxes to the U.S. government in 2009.

 

The bottom line: Puerto Ricans pay taxes to a government wherein they do not have representation.

 

That's why I specified income taxes.