debbiec Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I think I am just tired. And worn out. And whining. Maybe this is normal for some high school students. I think I just need a reality check from you all. DS will be a (high school) senior this fall. We went to our first college preview last fall when he was a junior. DS did NOT want to go because he wanted to sleep in. He didn't care about life after high school. We got him up in the wee hours of the morning and made the drive anyway with him sulking most of the way. Going on campus tour, attending the admissions meetings, meeting other students....DS came home that night happy, VERY glad he went, had a great time beginning to think about his future, etc. Due to the busy school year and sports, we did not make any other visits that school year. I planned three for mid July via email. I feel like "I" should not be doing this - but DS should be doing this. I send him links, print of info to leave on his desk, etc., that he glances at (or doesn't read). His tests scores will very likely qualify him for merit scholarships, but, the kid just doesn't know what he wants to do, and doesn't seem too interested in trying to figure it (or something) out. People/tutors/college professors (he Dual Enrolls) tell him some ideas and his strengths....but he just really doesn't seem to care. He really dislikes looking at colleges on line. He has no plan for working after high school (though he works part-time now) and basically all he can think about is his girlfriend and mentally planning when and if they will get married, how he will support her, etc. One would think THAT would motivate him....but I haven't seen it. He dreams of being a travel writer (who doesn't), but just has not concept of trying to put some kind of plan in action. I think I'm starting to vent ~ so I hope you get the picture. What would you do? What happened to your kids when this happened? DH thinks we should just tell him to let us know what we can help him with as far as college, work, gap year, ...whatever, but that we will no longer initiate anything for him (college visits, suggestions, etc), but will gladly help him when he is ready. This is REALLY hard for me, because I KNOW, colllege admissions/scholarships will come and go this fall and he won't even think about it until after Christmas (if then) - past many of the deadlines. OR do I keep plugging information his way, remind him of deadlines, make him stay home (social activitities) until he completes them, etc....and hope he matures into this over the year? And yes, we have talked about gap year. He simply is not interested unless we are willing to pay to send him abroad for a year (we do not have the $$ to do so). We had him consider working f/t and staying in town to take a few classes part-time until he finds his bearings. He is not interested. Thoughts? Experiences? Many thanks ~ Frustrated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running the race Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I can see how this might be my son in the future. Bumping and hoping you get many helpful responses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Your son sounds a bit like mine in the lack of initiative for college. My son's inaction was related to fear of the unknown, uncertainty about what he wanted to do, as well as a little of his social anxiety. All of this manifested itself as stonewalling. Since he was dragging his feet on setting up the college visits, I discussed this with his therapist (he was getting counseling for social anxiety). He suggested that I just take the bull by the horns and make it happen. So, I scheduled 7 visits last spring. I told him that he didn't have to like it but that he had to be respectful. Well, after the first visit, he didn't seem quite so afraid of the process. By the 3rd visit, he was looking forward to them. He now seems almost excited about going away to school. Before each visit, he and I went over the course catalog together so that he know more about what that college offered. I also did a couple sessions with him on the top 20 college interview questions just so he could put a little thought into those answers and not be all "deer in the headlights" when he talked with the adcoms. Due to my son's personality, I know that I will have to be on him more that I would like. But, the alternative is him staying home and not living up to his potential. He is a fledgling that will need a little shove to get him out of the nest to test his wings. So, I need to do more encouraging (and, I hope, very little nagging) to get him working on what he needs to do to get those applications in this fall. If I left it up to him, he would stay home all day, read, play on the computer, etc. That is not acceptable, so I have to parent him through this process. I have to poke and prod to see what is holding him back and help pull him forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tullia Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) One of my least favorite "hats" was that of high school counselor, and I can appreciate your tired, worn out feelings. I had a chance to talk with a counselor at a public high school in our area and ps students do some of what you're describing, too. I think that there are certainly many young people who take the initiative with college applications, but most do need some hand-holding. My take is that some children are paralyzed by the number of choices out there and seem aimless because they don't know what to choose, and as long as they have a perfectly comfortable berth at home seem content (more or less) with the status quo. We're mostly enjoying having our college son living at home, but we do have expectations about the things he's responsible for. Some children take longer than others to make their life journey fully their own. And, it's definitely true that different families have different ideas about what kind of and how much help is appropriate for young adults. Do you know the gf's family? Is the romance proving equally distracting for her and her family? A joint conference might be in order. Many of our dc remind me of the young finches who hatched on our front porch this year. The parents had to compete with mockingbirds and swallows for that prize hanging basket next to our front door, but they brought off three hatchlings. One was always crowding the edge of the nest and was the first to fly out to a tree when the parents stopped bringing food into the nest. The second just took life as it came with no drama, but the poor last bird got pretty desperate before venturing out to the tree. It cried and flapped on the edge of nest for hours. The parents didn't give up, though. I can't tell which is which anymore, and they're almost fully grown, but one young bird is still spending nights in the plant even though I've discarded the nest. ;) Edited June 20, 2011 by Martha in NM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I finally just scheduled college visits to different types of colleges, one big public, one small public, etc., and dragged my son along. I tried to do several in a bunch because they were obviously upsetting. When it came time to fill out the application, I helped extensively with the organization and deadlines and the more obscure information (like my education LOL). I didn't leave it up to my sons to do. One of my sons had been commuting into Boston to work full time for a few years and had even lived on his own twice, but I still had to help a lot with the college application process. Now, as a junior, he just managed the whole coop application process himself. I hovered while he was packing at his request and we helped him figure out how to take a fishing rod to a foreign country GRIN but he had it all organized himself beforehand. He had an impressive array of paperwork spread out neatly on on the kitchen table all ready to pack - passports, certificates, flight instructions, applications, assignments... And he had his clothes neatly folded in piles. I guess they do grow up. Getting him off to college in the first place did not look like that! Somehow, we all seem to have this feeling that they are done growing at 17 and are going to be stuck like that forever. Fortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case. I vote you keep helping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mllehmann Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I can so relate. I'm just keep nudging mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarreymere Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 We are not big on college, but obviously a young adult needs to have some kind of a plan. I do have some kids that have chosen college, but I'm not a believer in the value of most degrees. I nudge, but to a point. I also give a deadline, usually six months to a year depending on circumstances. I am more of a 'tough love' type. I don't make plans or organize interviews or anything else for the young adult. If he or she is not mature enough to do that then he or she is going to either develop the motivation to do so or end up living in the homeless shelter. FYI, no one so far has actually ended up in the homeless shelter out of six adult kids. So far. If the young adult manages to procrastinate until the 'move it or lose it' deadline hits, then he or she gets the boot in the butt out the door and out of the nest. I threaten to literally put their belongings in a box on the lawn. I have not had to do it yet, but they all sincerely believed I would. I also try hard to make home a heck of a lot less comfortable for the young adult once he or she is in the 'deadline phase'. That means I boot the kid out the door at 7am to 'look for a job' or 'look for a full time job' or 'go to the employment office' or go to the library and look up colleges'. The kid is allowed back in the door for dinner, but doesn't get to lie around watching MY tv or using MY computer or MY wireless internet afterward. If the kid actually makes some progress, either finding work, developing a business plan, or finding an interest in a college, and takes some independent steps toward a clearly defined goal I am a lot more supportive and easier to deal with and things become more negotiable. I have no use for slackers and I do not baby them. Not even my SN son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debbiec Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 Thanks everyone! I needed a little encouragement. I've been on the phone talking to DH about it all off and on today and I'm weary. This is my oldest of the two boys, and what is funny is my younger son (who has Down Syndrome) is much more structured, takes a lot of initiative for all kinds of things, seldom has to be reminded to do anything, etc....and the boys are simply just complete opposites. Thankfully I will only have to deal with this college dilemma once :) Thanks Nan for the reminder that they will not always look like they do now at 17 (though, he "looks" grown up and sometimes acts very grown-up) he will actually mature more in years to come. Martha ~ we have baby birds as well. Great analogy. DS is the last bird in your story. In my own parenting fatigue, I just sometimes wish he was the first. Dirty Ethel ~ you speak a lot of things that are probably true ~ paralyzed with the options. I probably would be too. About the GF - I talked to the parents about a month or two ago concerning the degree of their relationship. They seemed to think they were not all that serious (based on what their daughter is telling them). From what I have "found out" on my own (don't ask) and through conversations with DS, they are pretty serious but really are not telling anyone. I feel like one of those 19th century novel families that wants to send the son away on a european grand tour for a year to create space :) Not really....well kinda. She is very lovely and would be a perfect match for him....in about 3 years. But all of that is another thread. College in general - he really wants to attend college (in his head) and I know he cannot fathom NOT attending college, though I feel like we have been open to options if well thought out (at one time he throught about culinary school which we fully supported). Thanks for sharing your own journeys! I've been on the boards for about eight years and will be done next MAY! Yea! I will make it! Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 What would you do? What happened to your kids when this happened? DH thinks we should just tell him to let us know what we can help him with as far as college, work, gap year, ...whatever, but that we will no longer initiate anything for him (college visits, suggestions, etc), but will gladly help him when he is ready. This is REALLY hard for me, because I KNOW, colllege admissions/scholarships will come and go this fall and he won't even think about it until after Christmas (if then) - past many of the deadlines. OR do I keep plugging information his way, remind him of deadlines, make him stay home (social activitities) until he completes them, etc....and hope he matures into this over the year? I kept after him. The first deadlines to go by are the scholarships. Who is paying for this? Has he thought about enlisting? What does dh think ds is going to do next year, after he misses all the deadlines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debbiec Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) All very good questions! :) "I kept after him. The first deadlines to go by are the scholarships. Who is paying for this?" VERY good point. I guess in my mind, he would be ultimately paying for it in student loans (though certainly not ideal) though I'm sure we will contribute some in the end. But, I get your point and I think you are correct. Enlisting ~ we know a LOT of homeschool kids that are and he is simply not that interested. The only appeal to him in joining (so he says), is that he someone else would be making decisions for his life to some degree and he just shows up. I know that is not the complete reality, but in his mind, that is the case. What does DH husband think DS is going to do next year, etc.....? That made me laugh!! I said the same thing to DH. His response was something along the lines of "look back at the lack of initiative he had and missed a lot of things that will change his life, and learn a very hard life lesson, and decide to take charge of his life. I don't completely agree. We grew up in very different parenting style homes, one very hands off and one very hands on. You can guess from his response which one he grew up in :) However, DH and I did have a nice chat last night while walking the dog about changing our stategy and the college search based on everyone's feedback. In the end, I'm just going to treat it like homework around here: I cannot do your homework for you, however, I expect to see it fully completed, well done, by XXXX time and you will not go anywhere (to see GF) until it is done well. That has worked well at our house. I guess at what point does he start doing this for himself? I cannot go to college with him and set up boundaries to getting the homework done. I guess that is the core of the issue and the college search. Hubby feels like that if he doesn't have the initiative to look on-line at colleges, shoot some emails to get more info, talk to folks, etc.....how in the world is he going to take the initiative to complete assignments in college? Really, that is a very good point. DH feels like we will be setting him up for failure to send him off on a merit scholarship that he doesn't have the time management skills to maintain, and that perhaps, he needs to do something else, get his own personal bearings, and delay college a few years. So, there it is ~ though, for this summer, I will set-up the college visits, take him to look at additional colleges, require him to look up info,etc to prepare to go to visits, and in the end, we'll have to let him make the decision. I guess I feel like I need to help lay out his options so he is better informed about them....college visits, self-surveys, etc as tools to do that, gap options, work options, ....... Many thanks again to you all for your frank questions and . assistance. Debbie Edited June 21, 2011 by debbiec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckymama Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Our ds seemed paralyzed by the college process during his junior year and the summer after. He was good at getting homework and studying done on his own so it wasn't a normal pattern of behavior for him. We forced the issue and did treat it like another assignment----"by X day you need to narrow down The Big List," "by Y day you need to choose schools off the shortened list to visit" etc. His school (a boys' school so very familiar with that mindset lol) took over with the deadlines once senior year started. If the school hadn't, we would have continued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris in Wis Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I am so glad you shared this, Debbie. I dealt with (and have been dealing with it again!) with my oldest. And I felt like I was the only one!! DS is now at home again after a gap year from graduating college, looking for graduate schools after FINALLY deciding what he wants to do with his life. But we will have him home for a year, since he hasn't begun the application process yet. The year after college graduation, he attended a national Christian leadership program and served an internship in Washington DC. Turned out to be the most rewarding year of his life. But that opportunity didn't come up until several months after he received his college degree, and in the meantime, he had NO idea what he was going to do. He hadn't done any career planning while in college - said he was too busy (he double-majored and was in the honors program in BOTH). He said after graduation he was mentally exhausted and needed a break. Then he was contacted by the institute offering him the program, and, after much deliberation (to dh and me, it was a "no-brainer"!), took the position. Same thing happened back in high school. He procrastinated about taking the SAT/ACT (I finally scheduled him and bought him a study guide. He ended up being a National Merit Scholar!). I had to "nudge" him to look at colleges. I sent him links to collegeboard.com; I got ranking books from the library and piled them on his bedside table. His dad and I took the initiative to arrange the college visits. All of that being said, things seem to be finally working out for him. He is the type of personality that resists change and new, unfamiliar situations. And, he's a perfectionist who "fears" making wrong choices. For 18 years I encouraged and tried to help him overcome that, but it is just the way he is. I did push and nudge him, and it was necessary, because he would have done nothing if we let him. It was VERY frustrating at times! He's gradually becoming more self-confident, but it has taken much longer than most young men his age. Dh and I call it "delayed maturity. I would say that our job as parents is to encourage, give direction, and set boundaries for our young adult children. But we can't live their lives for them, and at some point we do have to shove those little birdies right out of the nest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I would say that our job as parents is to encourage, give direction, and set boundaries for our young adult children. But we can't live their lives for them, and at some point we do have to shove those little birdies right out of the nest. I love the fledgling analogy and it serves as a good reminder that parent birds do not abandon their young once the juveniles have fledged. A mother owl keeps lookout on a branching juvenile venturing outside the nest, a bird who is testing the waters so to speak. She does not interfere unless a predator is near. When my son was applying to colleges, I felt like a project manager. I kept a notebook of schools, deadlines, requirements. Some of the needed material came from me as the counselor so I too had to stay on top of deadlines. My son is passionate about what he wants to do so he was fairly engaged from the getgo in the application process. He burned out though by the time outside scholarship applications were due. That took some nagging on my part. Admittedly over spring break I had to ride him a bit about a summer job. He was most fortunate in finding a paid internship rather quickly but one of his good buddies is still without work. He failed to get his resume together and apply for jobs until mid-May--too late for some of the positions. I suspect that my son will not need as much nagging next year having seen what happened to one who procrastinated. I do think that junior/senior paralysis is fairly common. It is a scary world out there through which these hormonally charged kids are taking a roller coaster ride. There were times over the last few years when I felt like I was a person at ground level who was running around with outstretched arms just in case someone fell. He didn't. Maybe I did not need to worry but I did in my maternal way. Hugs all around. You'll get lots of support on this board. Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debbiec Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 Wow Kris and Jane ~ sounds like almost identical situations to mine. I think I need to appreciate the differences in teens/people and just go with his grain....I think Kris, you hit it on the nail ~ delayed maturity. It's just challenging for me to remember that because he is SO smart and very verbally articulate. He is who he is! Thanks again! I think I'm at peace with this. Off to set up some deadlines and find a hotel for our three college visits coming up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) For ds, I was the one who made the appointments, researched the colleges, presented him with options, etc. He was taking 3 AP courses jr. year, then 5 senior year, and just did not have the time or desire (I did) to do it all. He ended up accepted at nine colleges, and has finished his first year at a school neither of us had even heard of two years ago! It is a LAC, he is in Honors (we "made" him apply to that, too - and go to a scholarship day at the school - he got it!) Now, the next kid in line is very much a "I will do it MYSELF!!!!" young lady, and I am not ALLOWED to help at all! All kids are different. If your son could well get merit aid, now is not the time to drop the parental ball. A ton of money and his future is at stake. Research some general colleges, where he could end up in any likely major, find that merit aid info, help him pick topics or some school work that could be tweaked to fit college app and scholarship requirements (anywhere from 250 to 750 words! DS had one essay in three different versions, depending on needed word length!) and do as much grunt work as you want - just make sure HE writes the essays and signs the forms. Big hint - summer is the time to work on those essays, and do as much application work as possible! Idea is to have as much as possible DONE before senior year starts! Once the first acceptance and award comes in, I have noticed a boy's interest in the entire process perks up. I might add - when ds's college search started, he thought he might be a history major. This was jr. year. Midway through sr. year, while he was enjoying AP Bio, he decided he was a Biology major. He had already gotten several acceptances and scholarship offers from over half the schools to which he had applied early in the fall (not Early Decision - just got it all done early) but once he decided on Bio instead of History we were able to cull the schools down (bye-bye Gettysburg! You would have been great for history! Your Bio offering are not not what he is looking for, though) to those with strong Biology departments. If ds had had strong certainly from the start what he wanted to major in, it would have been easier to pick colleges. As it was, he and I had picked both privates and public, huge and small, close and out-of-state, likely to get in and one or two reaches (Vanderbilt! If only!) Edited June 21, 2011 by JFSinIL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) ...DH feels like we will be setting him up for failure to send him off on a merit scholarship that he doesn't have the time management skills to maintain, and that perhaps, he needs to do something else, get his own personal bearings, and delay college a few years. ... Debbie I would be wary of delaying college. I think a gap year is fine, but I have seen too many of my sons' friends delay indefinately, perhaps take a few cc classes in the meantime, and somehow get stuck and not grow up. I think to grow and change as an adult, something has to happen. The ones who tried college and flunked out have grown and moved on. The ones who got married have grown. The ones who had children have grown. The ones who went to some sort of school or created their own business or apprenticed somehow have grown. But the ones who just got a job, any old job, and waited to grow - they are still waiting, and life is slipping by, and they are getting depressed or are getting in trouble. Even taking a few cc classes hasn't really helped them to grow. Perhaps living at home, working part time, taking an English and a math class, hanging out with the same friends was too much like high school to grow them? I know setting him up to fail would be a bad thing and possibly financially disasterous, but I would be even more afraid of having one of those teens that have stalled. That is just my experience, though. It is really, really hard to predict the future of one particular child. Sigh. -Nan Edited June 21, 2011 by Nan in Mass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 The only appeal to him in joining (so he says), is that he someone else would be making decisions for his life to some degree and he just shows up. I know that is not the complete reality, but in his mind, that is the case. Hubby feels like that if he doesn't have the initiative to look on-line at colleges, shoot some emails to get more info, talk to folks, etc.....how in the world is he going to take the initiative to complete assignments in college? Really, that is a very good point. DH feels like we will be setting him up for failure to send him off on a merit scholarship that he doesn't have the time management skills to maintain, and that perhaps, he needs to do something else, get his own personal bearings, and delay college a few years. Perhaps ds should be looking at colleges with a more structured environment, like my Alma Mater: West Point. They will definitely handle the "telling him what to do so he just has to show up" end of it and will teach him time management and "help him get his bearings" in a way no other college is likely to do. Some people are just happier in a more structured environment and he may be one of them. If he has potential for merit scholarships, he probably has the potential to get accepted. PS. I say West Point, because that's what I know the most about, but all of the service academies have those qualities in common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I think it's too complicated to leave it to him. If you do, it won't happen (most likely). I understand being tired, being annoyed, but I would still help him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyce Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 during his last year of high school (a year ago) I was pulling hair and teeth to get him to do anything. Dh and I talked and I totally knew Ds wasn't ready for college. We just sat him down and asked him what he wanted to do when he graduated and we talked about his choices. We knew he wanted to go into the military so the obvious choices were joining right away or going to 4 year. After much discussion and questioning, he finally admitted to us that he really didn't want to go to a 4 year degree, he had some goals at home he wanted to do (he wanted to get his instructors certificate in Karate, which would require one more year of assistant teaching) and since he wouldn't be turning 18 until Nov he felt he wouldn't fit in. I finally was able to sigh a relief. We told him we understood and would support him but he would have to take some CC courses, at least 3/semester. We told him he had to take Eng but the rest he could pick. I just knew he would fail given he'd never taken responsibility that past year. I was shocked when he brought home his first English paper and had gotten a 100 and told us the teacher wanted a copy so she could use it as an example of a well written paper (this is from a son that could not write more than a 2 page essay and only wrote 2 of those his last year). I was amazed at how well he was doing. It also amazed him and gave him much courage. He began to see what we had been telling him all along, that he wasn't dumb he was smart. He never visited one college except for the college visit my dd made her junior year that we dragged him to. He really wasn't in to any of that. At the end of last year he told us he was ready to go to college and would be doing ROTC instead. Unknown to us he really liked my Dd school and since they had ROTC that's where he's going. I really believe that he needed that extra year to mature and he needed us to let him do things on his own even if he failed. He did mess up his scheduling his first semester because he didn't want my help and he admitted that was a mistake. The hardest thing I did was to let him do things without prodding. I just knew he would fail but he also knew if he failed that there would be certain consequences: he would get a job or go ahead and join the military. Funny thing is he didn't fail. Sometimes the best thing we can do for our children is to let them fail but we must tell them what we expect them to do and what will happen if they do not do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debbiec Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) deleted ~ Edited June 21, 2011 by debbiec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I'd drag mine into the room while I had info pulled up and ask him what he liked or didn't like, what he thought of visiting, set forth what they had that was on his list or not on his list, etc. I set up the visits and took him to them. He didn't finally schedule two overnights for himself, at his two top choices, until about the end of April (so maybe a week before decisions were due, if that). It was right down to the wire before he decided what school he would attend. He didn't decide that he would participate in sports until a couple of weeks before school started. He is getting a little better now though, already (after just one year of college). With advisors talking to him on a regular basis and other kids talking about their futures, I think it is rubbing off on him. He started broaching the subject of his major and potential jobs after school about mid-way through this past year. I think he declared his major, or at least has decided what it will be (not that it won't change, but...) He's talking about where he wants to go for his study abroad. He's talking about interning somewhere next summer and the summer after that. I think sometimes they just need some help starting down the path.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.