JennW in SoCal Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 My ds has decided that it is pointless to take an algebra based physics course and wants to wait until he gets some calculus under his belt before taking his first formal physics course. He's been surrounded by physics, well, aren't we all....hmmm, let me try this sentence again! We've done lots of physics-based science through the years by building simple machines, experimenting with Newton's laws of motion, and of course he faced basic word problems in algebra. He's been interning with an Electrical Engineer for the last year. He has read and watched everything he can on quantum mechanics that is for the lay audience. It is because of all this experience he feels a formal, algebra based course is not worth his time and effort. He is heading towards some kind of STEM major and will be taking calculus based physics no matter what, but some STEM colleges want to see physics on the high school transcript. He isn't getting to calculus until spring semester (at community college). I'm just curious what advice Professor Regentrude, or others who know more than I, have to say. Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 What grade is he in? Do I understand you correctly that he plans to take NO formal physics in high school and take calculus based physics at college? What sciences does he have on his high school transcript? Did he maybe do enough physics for a conceptual physics credit? I do not think a student must have an algebra based physics course before taking a calculus one. It certainly is helpful - but I have students (physics and engineering majors!) in my calc based college classes every year who did not take physics in high school - some high schools did not even offer it. It would, however, be beneficial if he had done SOME formal, systematic science (a rigorous chemistry course for instance), so that he knows how to work with a textbook, how to approach studying and problem solving. These are skills you do not acquire from reading popular science or watching documentaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennW in SoCal Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 Sorry, I left out some pertinent information! He is a senior this year and taking his math and sciences at the community college. He has had: Math: Algebra I, Geometry, Intermediate Algebra, Trigonometry and will take College Algebra in the fall and Calculus I in the spring. (His Intermediate Algebra professor recommended he not rush through a semester long pre-calculus course and instead break it into the two separate components, trig and college algebra.) Science: one useless general Earth Science course (long story, but it is there on his transcript) Biology -- a fairly systematic, formal course with me Chemistry -- a very rigorous, systematic course at the community college, which he LOVED. He could take the community college non-calculus physics course, but is afraid it will be too simplistic as it is for non-science majors. He really wants to sink his teeth into something, so is planning on continuing with chemistry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 At our CC, they require something called Introduction to Physics as a prerequisite for calculus based physics. I think it is equivalent to a high school algebra based physics course. The calculus based physics is a three quarter sequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Marple Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 He could take the community college non-calculus physics course, but is afraid it will be too simplistic as it is for non-science majors. He really wants to sink his teeth into something, so is planning on continuing with chemistry. My ds#2 took a conceptual physics course at our CC last fall. Of all the courses he has taken concurrently, this was the worst. He found aspects of the course interesting, but had difficulty in the online discussions and writing assignments because the course was taught from a liberal arts perspective (one of the profs was a philosophy professor) instead of a math/science perspective. This ds is geared more towards math and science so he was completely frustrated at the type of analysis the profs wanted. He had taken my co-op course with Hewitt's Conceptual Physics in 8th grade but I didn't want to give him credit in 8th grade. Long story short, he dropped the CC class but kept the syllabus and finished the course with me at home. Based on his well deserved A in the 8th grade class and his work in the CC class, I gave him high school credit for Conceptual Physics. Your CC may teach the physics for non-majors course very differently from ours (ours did not require a textbook) so I don't really want to discourage you. But if you are thinking of going that direction, I would suggest that you take a good look at how the class is taught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennW in SoCal Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 That's what they do for chemistry at our cc -- there is an intro to general chemistry, then you move to the chemistry sequence. And that intro course is plenty meaty. But there is no equivalent in the physics department. Apparently you can jump into the calculus physics course once you've finished calc I. The question comes up when thinking about where he applies for college. He would be plenty happy just continuing the chemistry sequence this year, but then his final high school transcript would have zero physics. The tech schools want to see physics on his transcript but the LACs, which he is leaning towards, don't seem to care. I was just curious if a case can be made for taking algebra based physics other than simply having a physics course on his transcript. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I was just curious if a case can be made for taking algebra based physics other than simply having a physics course on his transcript. Well, one can certainly make a case. It is useful to do algebra based physics before calc based one . But is it absolutely essential? I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennW in SoCal Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 Thank you all for your quick and helpful responses! I will take a look at the text books and get a syllabus for the non-calculus physics at his cc. I think his choice of which colleges to apply to and discussions with admissions counselors will ultimately help decide the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) I will take a look at the text books and get a syllabus for the non-calculus physics at his cc. I think his choice of which colleges to apply to and discussions with admissions counselors will ultimately help decide the matter. What book are they using? I'd be happy to have a look at the syllabus and see if I can discern the level of rigor. ETA: If he decides that he wants to do algebra/trig based physics so he can list it on his transcript, he does not really need to take a class. A student with a strong interest and background in math (and your son sounds like that) can self-study - that would probably be less time consuming, since he can use his previously accumulated knowledge and tailor the course to just fit his needs. For instance, he comes to a chapter that has material he already studied, he could just work practice problems instead of going through everything again and jumping through all the instructor's hoops. Edited June 20, 2011 by regentrude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennW in SoCal Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 Thank you! That is a very generous and helpful offer! It may be a few weeks or more before we are back on campus and mulling this over more. I'll send you a PM when I learn more and if he decides he should take the course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I'm replying in this thread so I can remember to check out the follow up. :) I can't imagine colleges thinking that taking an algebra based physics would be pointless, so I'm really curious about their input. I do wonder how much taking the SAT II or AP in physics matters, so I'm wondering if they'll mention anything about that as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 My oldest went into chemE w/never having taken any physics course before and jumped straight into cal based physics his freshman yr. He did fine and he had no previous exposure to physics like you are describing w/your ds. (He took advanced biology and chemistry courses in high school instead of physics. He ended up with the bio focus in chemical engineering.) He is a very strong student though. He had study partners that had taken honors physics in high school that did struggle in the class. (It didn't help that it was taught by a professor whom no one could understand.) My rising 10th grader has a passion for physics and has loved every sec of it. This ds LOVED Kinetic Physics and highly recommends the course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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