What I would do differently....

[HappyGrace]

We've had threads like this before, but now with dd11 going into logic stage, here's a couple things I found in 20/20 hindsight for our family....

 

1. Don't start the history cycle til logic stage-do more unit study type stuff instead. (Be as rigorous as you want with it though! They don't need to be babied. Get the newspaper and follow a stock and read some books about it, read about worldwide currency, the gold standard, etc.)

 

2. Skip Latin til logic stage (at least). We started in 1st grade and were burned out by 4th grade (and dd is very bright.)

 

3. Take one year at a time. Really. Don't make plans for the next five years down the line because things will most likely change anyway.

 

4. Make sure the skills are SOLID-they will need an excellent foundation so they can branch out in logic stage. In the meantime, let the history, etc., be fun gravy, not the whole enchilada (to mix metaphors)! We had a couple years where we did a huge history/lit focus and I wish we had spent that time on MATH!

 

And a couple bonus tips that I think we were on the right track with:

a) Focus on your relationship with the child. Build it strong and steady and trusting BEFORE the hormones kick in! (and as puberty approaches, don't let the physical relationship fade with either boys or girls-lots of back scratches, hugs, etc.)

 

b) If you're Christian, you almost can't do enough Bible, and I mean in-depth Bible, in the elementary years. You want the Word rooted so firmly in them before logic stage, so that when they start asking questions, the Scripture is already written on their hearts.

 

Feel free to add your own---hope this helps someone. I know threads like this were really helpful to me and good food for thought for me when I was starting out.

[Chloe]

:iagree:

 

Wonderful advice!

[TracyP]

Love this! Thanks so much HappyGrace. I have been thinking a lot about priorities lately(honestly, the last 9 mos or so) and this really hits on some of my struggles.

[kristinannie]

Thanks so much for posting this. I have decided to do unit studies for at least early elementary and have been second guessing my decision because I was scared we would have holes. It is nice to hear someone who has BTDT tell me it is OK and even preferable! Thanks for sharing!!!!! It is great for the newbies to get some sage advice! :D

[veggiegal]

Thanks for your thoughts and advice. I am in the process of making some changes to the way we homeschool because, to put it simply, ds9 needs and wants something more, something different. I tend towards less structured during the early years, but with a heavy math, logic and literature focus, and then science, geography, history, etc. done more 'following the kid's interests' style. And I shipped out art, gym, music. It's worked well--ds wrote a standardized test at the end of grade 3 and came out with flying colours--but he's now wanting so much more structure: greek and latin word roots, beginning French, rigorous grammar and spelling, more writing, more depth in history, oy! I am feeling a bit overwhelmed and have found the comments of so many on this board who've BTDT extremely helpful. I don't think I have much to add to the 'what I'd do differently' yet; but I am glad I am open to changing things up as my kids age. I very much agree with what you said about planning one year at a time.

[BearLair]

This has hit on so much that I posted about today... I've been struggling with how to get on track & be a 'real' homeschool Mom. Good to know we accidently covered some of what your experience has proven to be important.

 

I think maybe I should :chillpill: and retreat back to my reading now, quietly.

 

Thanks!

[Donna T.]

:iagree:

 

Wonderful advice!

 

:iagree:

 

Having many of the same thoughts myself.

[abrightmom]

We've had threads like this before, but now with dd11 going into logic stage, here's a couple things I found in 20/20 hindsight for our family....

 

1. Don't start the history cycle til logic stage-do more unit study type stuff instead. (Be as rigorous as you want with it though! They don't need to be babied. Get the newspaper and follow a stock and read some books about it, read about worldwide currency, the gold standard, etc.)

 

2. Skip Latin til logic stage (at least). We started in 1st grade and were burned out by 4th grade (and dd is very bright.)

 

3. Take one year at a time. Really. Don't make plans for the next five years down the line because things will most likely change anyway.

 

4. Make sure the skills are SOLID-they will need an excellent foundation so they can branch out in logic stage. In the meantime, let the history, etc., be fun gravy, not the whole enchilada (to mix metaphors)! We had a couple years where we did a huge history/lit focus and I wish we had spent that time on MATH!

 

And a couple bonus tips that I think we were on the right track with:

a) Focus on your relationship with the child. Build it strong and steady and trusting BEFORE the hormones kick in! (and as puberty approaches, don't let the physical relationship fade with either boys or girls-lots of back scratches, hugs, etc.)

 

b) If you're Christian, you almost can't do enough Bible, and I mean in-depth Bible, in the elementary years. You want the Word rooted so firmly in them before logic stage, so that when they start asking questions, the Scripture is already written on their hearts.

 

Feel free to add your own---hope this helps someone. I know threads like this were really helpful to me and good food for thought for me when I was starting out.

 

I'd love it if you'd flesh it out more....goodness, I'm pondering all of these issues right now. What do you think your K-4th would look like? What would it look like if you had several students? Hmmmmm....do you look back and wish you'd chosen a different curriculum as your teaching tool??

 

Boy do I agree about Bible. :001_smile:

[crazyforlatin]

Thank you for kindly sharing your experience. We do focus on math and never skip a day of it, to DD's chagrin. But I can't drop Latin until logic or later; it's just one of those subjects that DD loves and finds it easy enough. And now that you mentioned about really knowing the Bible, I really would like to do this more often, maybe read a story every morning and have DD narrate it. What do you recommend?

[Erika]

Great post especially the two bonus points.

[purduemeche]

Wow - what a great post. Thanks for sharing.

[Joyoflearning]

Thanks for sharing !! It gives me a lot to think about in terms of when to start a four year cycle and where God might be leading our family in terms of curriculum-possibly out of my comfort zone

[lorrainejmc]

I feel exactly the same. My dd is starting the four year cycle now, following FIAR/GTG. My plan for my 2 boys, who are 5+7 (the older has delays so they both do the same work at the same level) is this, starting/continuing Sept:

 

K/1st: Phonics, maths, handwriting, hands on units studies: Evan Moor theme pockets(lots of fine motor practice), art etc, adding grammar, spelling and writing as they are ready.

 

2nd/3rd, possibly 4th: As above but around the world with GTG, maybe start Apologia.

 

Then start history, continue Apologia.

 

That's the plan, anyway:D

[boscopup]

So why would you wait on the 4 year cycle for history? I find unit studies to be so much more work for mom. SOTW is easy to get done in a short amount of time. My son loves it. He's killing those paperback books. :lol:

 

He also reads about other time periods via library books. I see the first 4 year cycle as a general exposure to all of history, not as something to be retained necessarily. It's hard to know what topics to go deeper in if you've never been exposed to any of them. Same goes for science, which is why I left interest-led for that. He is getting exposed to things he may not have thought of now that we're using a curriculum.

 

So I'd be curious to see you flesh out that first point a bit more. :lurk5:

[Ravin]

DD's only going into 3rd, but I have a list of things I intend to do differently with DS...most notably, not start formal instruction so early, don't push any of it before he's ready the way I did with DD. And most of all, pay attention to what DS wants and will do well with, rather than latching on to what I think I would have liked at that age--because DD is nothing like me, and I've no reason to think DS will be, either.

[Pata]

I agree completely with making sure that the basics are cemented. My ds will be finishing phonics, even if he reads early, and he will be doing math fact drill from the beginning as I've seen the results of not emphasizing those things. Also, such great advice to solidify your relationship with your dc over getting it all done in the early years. I treasure all the time dd and I have spent sharing great books and working on projects together. It's so much fun to watch your children learn!

 

I'm also curious why you say no four year cycle for grammar stage? We have really enjoyed the four year cycle for grammar stage. Dd may not remember everything, but there is a knowledge base there plus she loves history & science. It's been a very positive experience for us, so ds will be doing the same.

 

I couldn't get rid of Latin or dd would revolt and if I didn't plan ahead, well let's just say it wouldn't be pretty :tongue_smilie:. I need to have a rough idea of where we are going. I agree though that your first 5 year plan will probably not be your last and things will change! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[HappyGrace]

Oh, I'm glad this helped some people!

 

Before reading these responses, I posted on the "S/O on do differently" thread, and that fleshed out my responses a bit more:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284942&page=2

[HappyGrace]

I have to run to swim lessons but I will come back later to try to answer the couple specific questions I see here.

 

In the meantime-by "unit studies" I don't mean big organized things-more like how I posted about currency, etc-get an interest and follow rabbit trails-BUT in a rigorous way (don't make pennies out of paper, etc-read good solid books and do meaningful projects about it-ie-I read some books to my very on level 2nd grader about money, he interviewed grandpa-who dabbles in stocks-just wrote down some basic questions he wanted to ask him, interviewed him, and wrote up his responses in paragraph form, etc. Very basic paragraphs, at his level-but this one project integrated the subject of stocks itself, writing, interviewing skills, writing a thank you note to grandpa after, etc.)

 

Also I love that SOTW is on CD-a great way to still hear it (we do it in the car) if you want to pursue other projects but don't want to miss SOTW!

[Crimson Wife]

Sometimes I feel nervous about deciding to delay Latin until middle school, thank you for providing reassurance about that :001_smile:

[Ester Maria]

Sometimes I feel nervous about deciding to delay Latin until middle school, thank you for providing reassurance about that :001_smile:

IMO, starting somewhere about 4th-6th grade is the ideal choice for most children. Personally, it is one of those things I "regret" too, even if it turned out great in our case, but I still think I could have postponed it and focused on something more crucial in the early years.

 

Given a chance to change, I would also do more formal music and instrument earlier for both children and I would probably focus more on Hebrew - sort of, use that postponing of classics to add more space to Hebrew in the early years, or possibly even French (that too I often think we should have started earlier, maybe even claimed it as the first foreign language).

[merry gardens]

Thank you. I've done some of those things by necessity but didn't feel good about it. You made me feel better about what we've done. :)

[janainaz]

I disagree, and that's alright! I just have a different POV, I guess.

 

I love that we started the 4-year history cycle in the grammar stage (1st grade). We are getting ready to begin the logic stage cycle. Isn't the 'logic' stage supposed to allow your child to connect the dots and make comparisons? This is the stage where they take what they've learned from the grammar stage, and begin to process the information.

 

In regard to Latin, we began our study in 3rd grade, and I was amazed at how Latin tied in so perfectly with grammar. One subject seemed to enforce the other. We benefited greatly from starting Latin in 3rd grade. We are going into our 4th year, and it is STILL reinforcing grammar (and vice-versa). However, I can't say that I would begin it any sooner than 3rd.

 

I also think it's wise to plan ahead, but not make yourself crazy. For me, I need to know what my goals are, at least, into the next year or two. I need to know where I'm headed, so that I know what I need to focus on in the moment.

 

I agree whole-heartedly with 'a)' :)

[HappyGrace]

Yes, jana-did you see my slight revision on the other thread about 4 yr cycle? And I totally agree, different families need different things.

 

Which brings me to my next point, for whoever asked about curriculum-I can't even begin to comment on that, since dc are so different! I am generally happy with what we've used. Sometimes you have to just try things and be willing to make mistakes til you find what works for your children (and then you will still make mistakes-lol!) And sometimes a curric choice will work for awhile and then the needs change. Generally I try to stick with more rigorous choices when it is feasible.

 

Bible was another question someone had-wow, we've done a bunch of variety, depending on age or needs at the time. We've had times where we just read the chapter and then take turns narrating (works well for "story" type passages, or others where we each draw a picture from what we read (when they were very young), and we've used curriculum (Bible Study Guide for All Ages is a favorite and works with any denomination since it is really just studying from the Bible). We loved the Vos Story Bible when the dc were younger, loved materials like Leading Little Ones to God, loved the DK Illustrated Family Bible (words taken right from the NIV, but has interesting sidebars too), and the Millers series (Missionaries and the Millers, etc.), Victor Journey Through the Bible. I could go on and on and on. We always have several things going on at once for Bible. And lots of memory work too. And just talking, talking, talking-trying to constantly make application. And even with all this, I still feel we could do more of it. Like I said, you almost can't do too much Bible!

[Soror]

I like reading some of this as we dropped Latin last year. It just wasn't working and didn't make since at the point we were at. I don't know if we will add it back in but we are just taking that one thing at a time. We have focused hard on our skills, if nothing else those things get done and I am happy about that. I do regret that I would like to do more of the fun stuff as they enjoy it so much.

[Old Dominion Heather]

Interesting... many of the things you list as things you would change are the things I am SO glad we did.

 

Here is what I WILL do with my youngest now that I have one in logic, one in the fourth year of grammar, and one starting out in first grade.

 

1. Start the four year history cycle in first grade and follow through. My oldest two have gotten their little brother so excited for the day when we act out the defeat of the red crown king by the white crown king in Egypt. When we did it last, my youngest was only two, so we let him hold the hose and be the Nile river. My boys have such a love and enjoyment of history and such a rich understanding of cultures that I think is entirely due to following SOTW's cycle. Do history while they are still young enough to see the wonder in it all, when you can read and act it out and you don't have to worry about writing a paper about it. When they get to logic stage they remember that and the writing come so much more easily!

 

2. Tie reading to history. I love the fact that my oldest (who likes the band Mumford and Sons) was able to recognize references to The Odyssey in the song "the Cave". He and my middle son make connections to classic literature that make their understanding of the world richer.

 

3. Start Latin as soon as they are reading well. My guys love it. They just do. My oldest will go into Third Form in the fall and those early years of memorization are really paying off. He has developed the ability to memorize and so has my middle son, though it doesn't come as easily to him.

 

Things I do differently now than I did with my first.

 

1. No more bells and whistles reading programs. When we finally switched to OPG, my oldest learned to read without looking at the pictures for clues and guessing at words.

 

2. Singapore, with the IP and CWP books. So, so pleased with this program. Ds finished book six and went into Dolciani Algebra.

 

3. Schedule a time for school and then do it. Every day, even when you don't want to, even when they don't want to. Get it done each week so that when it is a beautiful fall day, you don't feel guilty for going outside.

[Jane Elliot]

We've had threads like this before, but now with dd11 going into logic stage, here's a couple things I found in 20/20 hindsight for our family....

 

1. Don't start the history cycle til logic stage-do more unit study type stuff instead. (Be as rigorous as you want with it though! They don't need to be babied. Get the newspaper and follow a stock and read some books about it, read about worldwide currency, the gold standard, etc.)

 

2. Skip Latin til logic stage (at least). We started in 1st grade and were burned out by 4th grade (and dd is very bright.)

 

3. Take one year at a time. Really. Don't make plans for the next five years down the line because things will most likely change anyway.

 

4. Make sure the skills are SOLID-they will need an excellent foundation so they can branch out in logic stage. In the meantime, let the history, etc., be fun gravy, not the whole enchilada (to mix metaphors)! We had a couple years where we did a huge history/lit focus and I wish we had spent that time on MATH!

 

And a couple bonus tips that I think we were on the right track with:

a) Focus on your relationship with the child. Build it strong and steady and trusting BEFORE the hormones kick in! (and as puberty approaches, don't let the physical relationship fade with either boys or girls-lots of back scratches, hugs, etc.)

 

b) If you're Christian, you almost can't do enough Bible, and I mean in-depth Bible, in the elementary years. You want the Word rooted so firmly in them before logic stage, so that when they start asking questions, the Scripture is already written on their hearts.

 

Feel free to add your own---hope this helps someone. I know threads like this were really helpful to me and good food for thought for me when I was starting out.

 

I didn't see this the first time it was posted, but it's such a beautiful post I had to comment and bump. :D I needed to be reminded of these things (specifically #3, #4, a and b), even after 18 years of homeschooling, before starting our new school year. Thank you for posting this, HappyGrace. It's just what I needed.

Edited August 27, 2011 by Luann in ID

[Penelope]

IMO, starting somewhere about 4th-6th grade is the ideal choice for most children. Personally, it is one of those things I "regret" too, even if it turned out great in our case, but I still think I could have postponed it and focused on something more crucial in the early years.

 

 

 

Thank you for sharing this. I've seen you post it before, and it made me feel better about my plan.

 

I only started Latin up again this year (4th grade) because I wanted to capitalize on the capacity for memory work at the younger ages. Most of the younger programs seem to focus on that anyway, and not require too much else.

 

OP, thank you for the insights. The Bible comment is a good reminder for me and something I've been thinking about a lot lately. The only area I might disagree with you (though my oldest is a couple of years behind yours) is the history vs. unit studies. I suspect this might be more personality or learning style difference of parent or child. We have really enjoyed our history studies and learned quite a bit. I detest unit studies. :tongue_smilie:The thought of implementing a very organized one nearly gives me hives. I feel a similar revulsion to lapbooks, LOL; I'm weird that way.

 

I think the key to history and science in the younger years, is not to allow them to drive your homeschool. They are not the entree, but the side dish. Or dessert, in some cases. :)

[Mommyfaithe]

I have only one more to add...

 

The logic stage lasts at least 4 years....not all kids are ready for the logic stage at 10. Some are ready at 12 or 13.....and yes, that child may have to begin the rhetoric stage at 16. My point is to solidify skills in the grammar stage before moving into the logic and then solidifying logic stage before rhetorical stage.

 

It is not a race to the finish, and solid skills are necessary to build new skills upon.

 

Faithe

 

Eta: I start our history cycle when my kids are quite young and tie our read alouds and bedtime reading. Our history is not formal at that age...lots of reading, movies, crafts, reenactments with Lego and playmobil guys etc. History becomes formal in 5 th grade when we begin written narrations, outlining, summaries and response paragraphs.

 

I have done Latin both early and late....I am still not sure which is " best.". My 8 th grader still has not done Latin...neither has my 2nd or 4 th graders. I am planning on trying this year...we shall see.

 

Faithe

Edited August 27, 2011 by Mommyfaithe

[Mommyfaithe]

I didn't see this the first time it was posted, but it's such a beautiful post I had to comment and bump. :D I needed to be reminded of these things (specifically #3, #4, a and b), even after 18 years of homeschooling, before starting our new school year. Thank you for posting this, HappyGrace. It's just what I needed.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

These were very wise and loving words.

[Mrs Twain]

I didn't see this thread before-thanks for the wisdom and the recent bump.

 

1. Don't start the history cycle til logic stage-do more unit study type stuff instead. (Be as rigorous as you want with it though! They don't need to be babied. Get the newspaper and follow a stock and read some books about it, read about worldwide currency, the gold standard, etc.)

I have enjoyed doing a history overview instead of a four-year cycle. We read through world history overview book (CHOW or similar), and then read through an American history book to get a big picture view of history as well as get a good foundation in American history each year. We also do about four lapbooks per year to go in depth on some areas in history (similar to your unit studies approach). Using the history overview each year with lapbooks has worked well with this age so far.

 

I agree that the basics are most important--readin', writin', and 'rithmetic, especially the 'rithmetic.