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My 6 yr old son has language delay, poor social skills, obsessions and has been called a "quirky" child. He has been round and round with countless doctors since the age of 2, and his diagnosis has changed several times as a result. Some say he has nothing but speech delay. Another Dr say he has anxiety. They looked at possibly autism, PDD, ADD, etc. None of which stuck. No one agrees he might be in the autism spectrum because he smiles and has good eye contact. A psychologist now is saying that he believes that he has a low IQ, which may be driving his shortfalls.

 

Other reasons why the psy said he may have a low IQ is that he started to talk & walk very late, he is very messy eater, delayed self care ( for ex can't wipe himself yet) .

 

 

If this does turn out to be the case, is a child's IQ something that can be improved on, or is it a fixed measure ? He is a beautiful and sweet boy with an extremely gentle spirit. I am desperate to understand if his IQ is something that we can improve with certain activities and more importantly, what is the prognosis long term for a child with low IQ ? We do read aloud a lot , ask questions, narrate, do workbooks from Critical Thinking but he doesn't comprehend any board games yet. We recently started Verbalizing&Visualizing (thanks Lisa) and it seems to be working very well.

 

Also I am very puzzled about this IQ thing because he started to read with NO difficulty at all at 4, now at 6 he is able to decode words at 3rd grade level but he comprehends at about k-1st level. He loves to read by himself. He also spells advanced words words ( like SCIENCE , SAUCE , BRIDGE ,etc) and does simple addition& sub in his head. I attribute this to our good phonics program and Rightstart math+ Singapore , but still I feel if he really had a low IQ he would have a harder time to learn all these . His IQ was 84.

 

Thoughts, suggestions ?

Thanks in advance !

Edited by blessedmom3
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What you're describing to me does not sound like low IQ. I would not accept that dx yet. On an IQ test, they only look at whether or not the child gives the right answer. Lots of things could cause the child to give the wrong one - inattention, hearing issues, working memory, anxiety or shyness, lack of exposure, etc. Those tests are heavily speech/language oriented, and a child without strong speech skills will be very difficult to accurately assess. The psychologist who only sees your child in an office is not going to see the whole picture. Since your son has very real strengths (I am super impressed with the reading & spelling ability) I would assume that the test did not pick those up.

 

If he DOES have a low IQ - what would you do differently than you are doing now? It sounds like you are meeting him at his level and challenging him. That is the absolutely most important thing you can do. Even if you do get a firm dx, your child can still surprise you and he will grow on his own timeline. Take one day at a time and really try not to project into the future. Trust me, it only causes worry about things you can't control yet.

 

I was told my son was MR when he was a preschooler. He was very late to talk, and late to acquire many other skills. As he got older and his severe ADHD was treated, he was given a formal IQ battery and it showed he is gifted in some dimensions and below average in others. What had looked like low IQ was inattention and LDs.

 

Does he have issues with muscle tone? Has oral motor apraxia been looked at?

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Delays and IQ may be completely unrelated. You could have described one of my ds8s that way when he was 6. He's still in speech therapy now. He had no words when he was 3 and was labeled "severely developmentally delayed" at that time. He's actually very bright, but his IQ is not easy to measure due to his processing issues.

 

It's hard to describe IQ (and by IQ I intend to mean "g", actual intellectual potential, or whatever is usually referred to by that letter, rather than, say, a full scale IQ score on the wisc, because that is often muddled by processing issues) with a late bloomer like my ds, but from what I understand, intellectual development takes place on a curve (visualize a broad "hump" on a graph with time on the x axis), and for some very bright kids, imagine that hump is larger but shifted to the right - so it takes longer to develop.

 

Or, it may be that it is fixed, but that it's impossible to show due to processing and/or input/output issues, which may, to some extent, change over time, and may, depending on the specifics, be amenable to therapy.

 

One thing is for certain, even though it is not supposed to change, and doesn't for most kids, the measure of the IQ on a test may certainly change over time if these processing issues have been helped with therapy. That is certain (from what a psych told me). I'll see if that's true when I re-test some of my kids, maybe next year. Note that the measure of an IQ, which is a snapshot in time on a particular test, may not accurately reflect the actual IQ due to these issues. There simply are limits to what can be tested, and information must flow freely in and out of the brain for best accuracy :D.

 

(FWIW, I end up wiping most of my kids until they're around 6 or 7. I don't think that's necessarily unusual - they're just not good at getting their rear ends clean at younger ages.)

 

What test showed an 84? I'm no expert on low IQ, but I think your intuition sounds correct, that he'd have had a much harder time learning what he has learned with that sort of IQ. I wonder what was the trouble during the test (some testers are better than others at coaxing answers out of young children. seriously).

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What you're describing to me does not sound like low IQ. I would not accept that dx yet. On an IQ test, they only look at whether or not the child gives the right answer. Lots of things could cause the child to give the wrong one - inattention, hearing issues, working memory, anxiety or shyness, lack of exposure, etc. Those tests are heavily speech/language oriented, and a child without strong speech skills will be very difficult to accurately assess. The psychologist who only sees your child in an office is not going to see the whole picture. Since your son has very real strengths (I am super impressed with the reading & spelling ability) I would assume that the test did not pick those up.

 

If he DOES have a low IQ - what would you do differently than you are doing now? It sounds like you are meeting him at his level and challenging him. That is the absolutely most important thing you can do. Even if you do get a firm dx, your child can still surprise you and he will grow on his own timeline. Take one day at a time and really try not to project into the future. Trust me, it only causes worry about things you can't control yet.

 

I was told my son was MR when he was a preschooler. He was very late to talk, and late to acquire many other skills. As he got older and his severe ADHD was treated, he was given a formal IQ battery and it showed he is gifted in some dimensions and below average in others. What had looked like low IQ was inattention and LDs.

 

Does he have issues with muscle tone? Has oral motor apraxia been looked at?

 

 

:iagree:

 

If you need more answers, I'd seek a second opinion, with a psych who is more experienced with LDs. You might wait a year so that the same test can be used again (that may yield useful info if the test was the WISC, for example).

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What were the subtest scores? What you're describing does not correlate with an IQ of 84. FWIW, my son's IQ (GAI actually) went up by 35 points from age 7 to age 12 because we systematically worked on his weaknesses. If he was given the WISC it would be interesting to see what the GAI is or if something in particular is bringing the score down.

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My son was recently diagnosed as PDD-NOS, sounds quite a bit like your son (actually, you pretty much descibed him precisely), and does smile and make eye contact often (not always). He doesn't follow others gazes well, however. But, unless my son was misdiagnosed, smiling and eye contact shouldn't exclude your son from a diagnosis of ASD. Has he had psych-ed evaluation to check it out, or have pediatricians who aren't fully trained to look for symptoms of ASD just conlcuded he can't be on the spectrum because he interacts with them with eye contact and smiles?

 

I had been to countless doctors for my qirky kiddo, and it wasn't until he saw a pediatrician who was specifically trained in diagnosing ASD that we got it figured out when she recommended a psych-ed assessment. Because he didn't do much in the way of stimming, and did smile, and make eye contact, his ASD didn't get picked up on by other doctors. He met many of the markers to be diagnosed with PDD-NOS, but they were the ones that weren't as obvious to the untrained eye.

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I have a son who has been scored at between 78 and 82 on various IQ tests over the years. He does have some processing issues, but we have worked on those pretty extensively and are now at a point where I can say I do believe that most of what we see now is really a comprehension issue and not a processing issue. I can tell you that reading, spelling, and math are things that he has a particularly difficult time with, even now as an adult. As an example, he was helping correct my younger child's second grade math the other day (three digit addition and subtraction) and made a number of errors himself, poor thing.

It doesn't sound to me like your child has a low IQ, I agree with the OP that your son's reading, spelling, and math abilities would not be what they are with an IQ of 84. And FYI, I also have gifted kids who have needed help with wiping at that age. Sounds like your quirky kid still needs an accurate diagnosis........

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I agree that he's probably just delayed in his communication skills. My 14-year-old was also delayed. She couldn't even speak in sentences until she was five or so. She couldn't follow instructions for many years. She never asked questions and could hardly answer questions posed by someone else. She was evaluated twice (by a preschool admissions officer and by an educational psychologist) in those early years, and both of them thought she had many serious learning issues.

 

However, she learned to read before she was five years old, within a matter of weeks. I hardly had to teach her. She knew her colors, letters, and so on when she was one year old. When I sat down and explained anything to her (which I'm ashamed to say I didn't do very often since I was waiting for her to show an interest), she would understand immediately. She had an offbeat sense of humor and could be really funny, even if she hardly said a word.

 

She's fine now -- actually better than fine. She's an outstanding student. As far as I can tell, these have been her issues: She does have attention-span problems and is constantly wanting to be active. She has proprioceptive problems, which we worked on with an occupational therapist and later by enrolling her in swimming and ballet. She has working-memory issues. She was tongue-tied, which may or may not have contributed to her late speech development. (Thankfully, someone spotted her problem and she had a mini-surgery which fixed that.) Communication has never come easily for her, and she needs more explanation, more practice, more encouragement than other children do. However, her IQ is very high and her grades are excellent.

 

The books "Late-Talking Children" and "The Einstein Syndrome: Bright Children Who Talked Late" gave me a lot of comfort during those worrisome years. I saw my own child in the case studies in the book. They gave me a great deal of hope that she would turn out all right, and she did.

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He does not have any fine or gross motor delays , although he started to walk at 17 , but now he is ok , runs, jumps, etc and he has a beautiful handwriting for his age ( only when he wants ) .

 

I don't remember the sub-tests scores , but I do know that he scored the lowest in language or vocabulary ( 79) and the highest in similarities/analogies (91) . When he was 3 or 4 he was given another IQ test and he scored 118 which is a little above average I think. I don't understand why it dropped . I was there when he had the test . I know him so well so I was sure whether he would know or not . He simply did not know the answers to what the psychologist say 80-85 % of children his age should know . He is able to concentrate for a long time so inattention is not an issue.

 

I feel his low score it is due to his language delay. That is why I am trying to work hard this year to improve. He does go to speech therapy but it does not seem to help.

 

Another thing that puzzles me is that when my mother came to visit us for 6 months, he started to be almost fluent in her foreign language in about 3 months. She did not teach it to him, she just spoke her language and he picked it up just from hearing her . I don't know if 84 IQ would enable him to do that .

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I'm scratching my head with an "expert" telling you he can't be spectrum because of smiling and eye contact? Neither of those in any way rule out autism.

 

My extremely smiley kid with good eye contact is on the spectrum. He sounds a lot like your son actually. Autistic kids can be really happy and smile a lot. I don't get that one in the least. And, at it's core, it really has nothing to do with eye contact either.

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I too feel that he is (mildly) in the ASD . He has obsessions and would "steam" all day if I would let him. He used to line up cars in a row or in different patterns . However, three or four specialists said he definitely is not in the spectrum . But I am not concerned about that. I know in ASD kids have different IQs , like typical kids. My concern is whether this is a true low IQ or it was a mistake and if it's a true one , how can I improve it? I know there are not magic tricks but maybe someone has ideas, books to read ,curriculum to rec , etc. I already read those two books suggested above .

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My concern is whether this is a true low IQ or it was a mistake and if it's a true one , how can I improve it? I know there are not magic tricks but maybe someone has ideas, books to read ,curriculum to rec , etc. I already read those two books suggested above .

What were the weak points in his subtest scores? Did the psych issue a list of recommendations, or recommend testing by other specialists?

 

But more importantly, what do you feel are weak areas or problems academically? Maybe you can work backwards from there.

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What I did with my daughter (once I clued in to what she needed) was talk to her *a lot.* I'd read to her and ask questions about the book. Of course she couldn't answer, so I'd kind of answer the questions myself and discuss them. I explained a lot of things to her, slowly. I was doing 90% of the talking, but that was all right. She just needed to have someone communicate with her all the time.

 

I felt it was important for me to talk SLOWLY and deliberately. She would shut down if the pace was too fast and chaotic.

 

She was getting a lot of input, but she couldn't produce a lot of output. There was something sort of frozen up inside her. Her older brother helped a great deal. They played with stuffed animals a lot, making up wild stories about them and making them do outrageous things (he was doing most of the talking). They put on plays (mostly she just stood there or had very short lines) and filmed them. This individual attention helped her so much.

 

Again, the thing I most regret was not talking more to her when she was very young. Since she didn't talk, I communicated with her by holding her and taking care of her, but I didn't try very hard to provide careful verbal input.

 

We used a variety of curricula in her early elementary years, mostly K12 and BJU HomeSat. She did well with everything. I'm actually glad I chose those, because they provided a lot of verbal input without expecting too much from her.

 

P.S. She used to line up toys, too. She doesn't do that anymore.

Edited by Rebecca VA
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What were the weak points in his subtest scores? Did the psych issue a list of recommendations, or recommend testing by other specialists?

 

But more importantly, what do you feel are weak areas or problems academically? Maybe you can work backwards from there.

 

 

The weak points were in language and the next one was arithmetic . He can easily do addition&sub in his head but has trouble with word problem . Also it is very difficult for him to get more challenging concepts. He gets them but it takes a very long time . I thought it took forever to teach him the coins & their value but now he knows them. The clock is another one. The biggest issue though is comprehension . When I read a story , he does not get the main idea . He can tell you bits and pieces but is unable to connect. He does not get inferences. Even in simple stories. He can answer concrete questions like "who" or "where" but does not see the big picture or answer the whys. He does not comprehend stories over Goldilocks and the three bears level for ex. I have three other kids and I know they are all different but he is just *too different* and it is very frustrating because I am often not sure how to teach him .

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My daughter has an IQ of 65. Later, in the same year, she was tested by the school to have an IQ of 80. Strangely enough, 80 is the cut-off for services, so I don't believe that was accurate. :tongue_smilie: Her teacher and therapists agree her IQ is closer to 65. And even at THAT IQ, her learning is not consistant.

 

Anyway... when we had her tested last year, the psychologist told us this test was pretty accurate and to prepare for her to not be able to live completely on her own as an adult. That was hard to swallow. Of course our goal is for her to live independantly and we will work towards that and take it as it comes (she's 5.5).

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My ds sounds similar to yours. At 3.5 he was diagnosed with a severe speech delay of at least 18 months. He didn't walk until he was 16 or 17 months old. He also lined up his cars - he wouldn't play with them, he'd just line them up. And he would have a crazy meltdown if anyone touched them.

 

Anyhow...at 4 he began Suzuki violin and I think that's helped him a lot. At 6 we had some tests done (including IQ) and he just was tested again (he's 11 now). His IQ has gone up 22 points. I didn't think that was possible - we did the testing because it was a hoop we had to jump through not because we thought we needed it. His verbal reasoning was the highest (99th percentile). We've done a lot of reading aloud over the years and a lot of music. I think that music really has had a big impact on him over the years.

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You mentioned that your son doesn't understand Goldilocks and the Three Bears -- I had to smile because that is one of the stories K12 uses in its kindergarten curriculum. The students are expected to answer comprehension questions about it. When I would ask my daughter the questions, she'd give me a blank stare and answer, "I don't know." (That was her stock answer to everything.) So again, I'd answer the question for her in a conversational-type way. And we'd act out the story with stuffed animals or stick puppets just to make sure she could envision it in her mind. The whole time my heart would be breaking.

 

She routinely scores in the 99% percentile in reading comprehension on standardized tests now. In fact, she just got this year's Iowa Test scores back, and she was in the high-90s in every category.

 

My daughter's not the most imaginative person on the planet -- she often has trouble imagining or envisioning things. No problem -- the world needs all kinds of people in it. Her dad has an electrical engineering degree, a computer science master's degree, and was a nuclear engineer for the Navy. She's just like him -- she can apply knowledge very well but can't dream up a lot of new things. Which is *exactly* the kind of child "Late-Talking Children" was written about. I have tried to give her the benefit of my very different way of thinking as I've worked with her through the years, and I think that has helped her a great deal.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I formerly taught special ed and worked with a wide range of IQ scores. Learning delays and IQ are very different. A delay means that you are not working at your potential-you are a poor achiever. Your IQ is your potential (as used by schools to determine academic potential). Your achievement is effected by learning differences (dyslexia ie), motivation, other disbailities, and so on.

 

When I was teaching there were always several kids who did just fine until about 3rd grade when classes moved faster and more was expected of them. They may have even been slightly early in some skills. They had not struggled or show any signs of learning difficulty. When going thru the ed psych testing, several would have IQs in the 80-90 range. In ed circles this is called the slow learner range.

 

Let me try to explain what this means: Say a child has an average IQ of 100. For this very average child, they need to review a skill 10 times before it is committed to memory. A child with an above average IQ may only need to see the skill 2 times. For a child with a lower IQ, they may also be able to learn that same skill, but for them to do so they may need to be exposed to it 30 times. The lower the IQ the more times a child needs repetition to learn an individual skill. Granted each child is different and they will have areas of strength and weaknesses within each range.

 

When you look at elementary ages, typically 3rd grade is about when school curriculums start moving much faster and less time is spent on review. The kids who need more repetition simply cannot keep up with the ever increasing demands. It doesn't mean they cannot learn, it just means they need the materials presented in a slower pace with more repetition. This is especially true with abstract concepts and comprehending that leads to application in real life.

 

Of all the students I taught (many are adults now) pretty much all in the 80-90 IQ range are hard working independent living adults. Most went thru vocational training or just a couple years of college. They are not the engineers but one runs a successful cleaning business, another owns a car repair business, another is a receptionist for a friend, and another is a very successful dog groomer.. Others are happy successful emmployees in other businesses and raising their own families. The ones owning business do have friends or family keeping accounting and helping in areas they are not so strong in, but we would all do that, right? The not so successful ones (and I can think of at least a couple) are not successful IMO not because of IQ, but because they don't have family support or guidance in finding a place after school.

 

Another thing that puzzles me is that when my mother came to visit us for 6 months, he started to be almost fluent in her foreign language in about 3 months. She did not teach it to him, she just spoke her language and he picked it up just from hearing her . I don't know if 84 IQ would enable him to do that .
Yes, it could IMO. One, he is a child with a rapidly developing brain. Languages come much easier to children anyway.
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I don't know if this will be of any help, but there is a place where you can test the IQ of your child which is at Kids IQ Test Center.
How accurate are these tests? I found this one that is free. I found the link at Kids IQ Test Center and then googled the ISIQ Test to find it.

 

http://www.isiq.com/

 

My dd, age 14, also lines up her toys. She still plays with her Barbies and Polly Pockets, but they never walk, talk, dance, or go any place. She just dresses them and sits them all down in a row. She has about a dozen dolls and a car, but they never go for a ride. She might sit a Barbie in the car, but all she does is sit. The car never gets pushed down the hall or anything like that.

 

We adopted this child. She came to us 4 years ago with an IQ of 81. When she was first tested in public school way back in 1st or 2nd grade, her IQ was 76. She was tested again after being in our home for 6 months. Her score had risen to 89.

 

She was neglected, and I believe a lot of her problems are related to that neglect. She has more diagnoses than I have fingers and toes, and at times I feel so helpless in trying to help her.

 

Dobela, I can certainly relate to your post. My bio kids could see something once or twice and they had it. This child - I have to go over and over and over the same material. If material I believe she has mastered is not reviewed on a regular basis, she forgets it. This makes it very difficult to move forward as we have to just spend our time reviewing old material. I sometimes wonder if it will ever cement in her head.

Edited by onemom22boys
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