How do you...

[Dawn in OH]

make an older child (8 to 10) do what they are told? We're having a real problem with this this week and I'm tired of being stressed out and angry over the situation. I repeat the request and still get no response. I'm getting pretty fed up.

 

It's not just one thing in particular. Lately it seems to be everything: school work, chores, getting in the shower, cleaning up toys, getting ready for bed. Not only is it frustrating for me, but it sets a bad example for their younger brother.

[fairfarmhand]

perhaps give them a taste of their own medicine when they ask you to do something?

 

or I would treat it as disobedience.

[goldberry]

There has to be a consequence involved for them not listening. I am not a "first time obedience" mom, but when DD gets in a routine of ignoring me, I crack down. I ask the first time. Nothing. The second time I make absolutely sure she is hearing me, and say very clearly, "This is your warning. I need you to ____ or _____(this will happen)." Then follow through.

 

Typically I don't have to be that way all the time, but only when she seems to start pushing.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Yes, consequence for disobedience. That could vary from losing t.v. or computer time, play time with friends etc. I would be sure that the child knew what kind of response was expected; in our house that would be "Yes, Mom" said in a respectful voice.

[katilac]

A long time ago on the boards, someone posted about a "ladder" of priviliges. Use a whiteboard, and list everyday privileges on it: snack, riding your bike, computer/screen time, playing with friends, bedtime, etc.

 

it needs to be several things they value, going up in importance. when they ignore you (or do whatever you are trying to correct), walk over to the whiteboard and erase the lowest rung of the ladder - they have just lost that privilege for the day. for each instance, you erase another rung of the ladder.

 

it's great b/c it is very, very simple. they know exactly what will happen if they don't listen, and you do not need to fuss or yell. just erase.

[DawnM]

I start thinking of consequences....."You cannot do X until Y is finished."

 

And then, if you are a Christian, there is a the whole,

"If a man doesn't work, neither should he eat" thing (2 Thes. 3:10) you can throw in along with some lessons on God's expectations for obedience and work.

 

Dawn

[Carpe]

You get them to do things the same way to get anyone else to. Either they want to do it, or they want not to not do it.

 

As an example: How do you get someone to drive the speed limit?

You can outlaw speeding, inflict fines, and police people. And it works for most people. Some people just get good at not being caught speeding.

Alternately one could explain the benefits of driving safely. It's easier to control the vehicle, the driver and passengers are safer if someone else hits them, there is less wear-and-tear on the vehicle. Someone fully informed can choose for themselves, and will, for the most part, choose to follow the speed limit. And they will likely have a very good logical reason if they aren't.

And if neither is a deterrent for a particular individual sometimes you need to take their car away so they can't speed at all anymore.

 

Personally I believe in informing first, demanding second, and removing the temptation third. (Unless we're talking about a very young child that doesn't understand the reasons at all. Which we aren't here.)

[Chris in VA]

Just be careful you don't escalate to the impossible--

It's ultimately their choice whether or not to obey you.

[WishboneDawn]

I make it harder to say no then to just do what was asked.

 

We have a lot of firewood that needs to be stacked and it generally gets down after I've had a battle over "no". :)

[Harriet Vane]

I use a combination of extra chores and exercise. Each and every time there is that disobedience (lack of response, etc.), I calmly state the consequence. My ds seems to really need some form of physical expression in these situations (unlike my daughter). I might require pushups or running, or I might have ds mop the floor or something like that. I lean towards the exercise if I think ds doesn't mean to misbehave but maybe has ants-in-his-pants. If I sense a rotten attitude underlying the behavior I might do both exercise and chores, or just chores.

[Mimm]

There have to be consequences. For my ten year old, that's early bedtimes and being grounded from electronic entertainment (computer, Wii, watching movies), being grounded from sweets (this is a mild punishment because we don't have a lot of sweets around here) and having to do extra chores. If the extra chores aren't done, there are consequences for that. I'll take something important away from her (favorite stuffed animals, mp3 player, etc.) or make her miss out on Tae Kwon Do class. Missing TKD at this point means she won't be able to test for her next belt because that's coming up quickly. Last night both kids almost had to stay home from TKD but managed to do the chores I assigned them because of their attitude problems. These aren't major chores either. One of them had to load the dishwasher and the other had to pick up the dining room.

 

Making sure they are getting adequate sleep helps.

[myfunnybunch]

I ask once in a normal polite voice.

 

The second time I get very close to the child, get eye contact and maybe a gentle hand on the arm and say calmly, "I asked you to x. Please go do that right now." Usually they go do it.

 

If I have to ask a third time, the child usually loses a small privilege. This is a system that's already in place.

 

I've found that talking to them about how not following directions affects me (I want to enjoy their company instead of being frustrated with them) and affects them (learning a bad habit) helps quite a bit. It works best if I pick a time when I'm not already frustrated, and if it includes something like, "Let's work on this together. I'll work on keeping an uplifting attitude and encouraging instead of being frustrated; you work on following directions quickly and politely." I'm also very clear in these discussions on what following directions quickly and politely looks and sounds like, and on how to object or negotiate appropriately. Ex: "Can I finish this? It will take 5 minutes," instead of ignoring or refusing to comply.

 

And, my biggest challenge in this area, when they ask me for help or for my attention, I am trying to be responsive more quickly instead of telling them "Just a minute." Not that I should be at their beck and call every moment, but for *me* this had become a bad habit, and it showed up in their behavior too. (I don't know if that's applicable for you, just my own area that I need to work on.)

 

Cat

[Dawn in OH]

The problem is, I've got one with the "I don't care" attitude. No computer time for you. He doesn't care. No dessert for you. He doesn't care.

 

I can't give him chores for punishment, he's refusing to do his current chores.

I can't send him to bed early, he was not going to bed when sent already.

 

Do I physically drag him to the shower?

 

Is there any option other than spanking, or is that what it's going to have to boil down to?

[KS_]

The problem is, I've got one with the "I don't care" attitude. No computer time for you. He doesn't care. No dessert for you. He doesn't care.

 

I can't give him chores for punishment, he's refusing to do his current chores.

I can't send him to bed early, he was not going to bed when sent already.

 

Do I physically drag him to the shower?

 

Is there any option other than spanking, or is that what it's going to have to boil down to?

 

I would not get into anything physical - he's really too old and you don't want to have it escalate to that point. My ds has the "I don't care" attitude at times, but eventually he does care - it just takes him time to come to that conclusion on his own. I'd make his life very basic until he decides to start doing what he needs to do.

[Carpe]

The problem is, I've got one with the "I don't care" attitude. No computer time for you. He doesn't care. No dessert for you. He doesn't care.

 

I can't give him chores for punishment, he's refusing to do his current chores.

I can't send him to bed early, he was not going to bed when sent already.

 

Do I physically drag him to the shower?

 

Is there any option other than spanking, or is that what it's going to have to boil down to?

 

I don't think you can solve the problem until you know why he doesn't care about anything anymore.

[Dawn in OH]

I don't think you can solve the problem until you know why he doesn't care about anything anymore.

 

He's not attached to material things. Sure, he likes his Lego's, he would be really angry if I threw them out, but being denied access to them for a day doesn't upset him. The same applies to any other toy or video game.

[WishboneDawn]

The problem is, I've got one with the "I don't care" attitude. No computer time for you. He doesn't care. No dessert for you. He doesn't care.

 

I can't give him chores for punishment, he's refusing to do his current chores.

I can't send him to bed early, he was not going to bed when sent already.

 

Do I physically drag him to the shower?

 

Is there any option other than spanking, or is that what it's going to have to boil down to?

 

Here's how it goes down in my house.

 

My son refuses to do a chore. I lead him to the room where it's to be done and tell him that if he doesn't do it he's chosen to go stack wood. If he still refuses I lead him out and I stand by until he does it. If he sits down in a sulk at any point, I wait it out but stick close by. Until he's out of the sulk, every thing stops. No toys, no food, no nothing. Just a boring old time with me watching his every move.

 

Through it all I stay calm. While he's stacking wood I stay quiet. When he's done I compliment him on the job and thank him for the work and then have a short conversation about why he had to do it. Then he goes back and does the original chore.

 

I actually started this without the woodpile. I'd just wait it out an while he sulked or had a tantrum the world stopped. I stayed calm and let him know I would talk when he was ready but otherwise the same routine as above. That did wonders for the sulks but he'd still say no. So I went to the woodpile. That's eliminated the 'no's' pretty much.

 

I find the woodpile is great not just because it's hard work but because it's exercise and lets him get rid of some of his anger. Plus he's doing something that, despite the reason why he's doing it, makes him feel like he's accomplished something so he can feel the value of pitching in.

 

The key is though that I have to be ready to drop everything else to spend the time on helping him get through the refusal and sulk/tantrum. I have to be willing to stand there in the midst of the heat and blackflies for instance while he's working. But the reward is that he's a cheerful helper now and rarely ever has to stack wood.

[Parrothead]

Does he like to eat?

 

No chores, no food. If he is a normal healthy boy, missing a meal or two won't hurt him.

 

Does he like to do things besides sit on his bed (or the sofa)?

No chores, no fun. It won't hurt him to sit and contemplate the error of his ways.

 

Make sure you fix his favorite foods. Make sure you and the other kids are having loads of fun.

[Dawn in OH]

Here's how it goes down in my house.

 

My son refuses to do a chore. I lead him to the room where it's to be done and tell him that if he doesn't do it he's chosen to go stack wood. If he still refuses I lead him out and I stand by until he does it. If he sits down in a sulk at any point, I wait it out but stick close by. Until he's out of the sulk, every thing stops. No toys, no food, no nothing. Just a boring old time with me watching his every move.

 

 

 

This might work. It is challenging though when there are other things and children that need my attention. I think that's the part that is the most upsetting. It's hard to stand over him or his sister, when the two younger children are needing something or getting into something they shouldn't be.

 

Ahh, maybe not doing anything but standing in the corner (he really hates that) until the job is competed would work. No food until the job is done should get to him, he has hit the point where he eats a lot.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions. I have ideas now. I feel less lost and frustrated.

[WishboneDawn]

This might work. It is challenging though when there are other things and children that need my attention. I think that's the part that is the most upsetting. It's hard to stand over him or his sister, when the two younger children are needing something or getting into something they shouldn't be.

 

Ahh, maybe not doing anything but standing in the corner (he really hates that) until the job is competed would work. No food until the job is done should get to him, he has hit the point where he eats a lot.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions. I have ideas now. I feel less lost and frustrated.

 

:) It's not easy at all but if you can manage it for a few weeks, even if you have to abandon the two younger ones to the crib or TV it really pays off in the longer term.:grouphug:

[CandaceC]

Thanks for all the tips, ladies! I have a 9yr old very strong willed little girl...I LOVE the ladder approach that someone posted...I have a little whiteboard on my fridge already...I think Monday morning we may try it!! :D

[JaniceO]

I feel your pain. I have a 9 (will be 10 in July) year old who is the same way. His siblings are outside playing right now while he's sitting at the table pretending to work on his math assignment that he's had since 9 am this morning. The child only had a test for LA (really only 2 pages out of 5 since it was a test he started Wed and never managed to finish) and 1 math assignment and he just refuses to do them. He was also told he had to clean his half of the room he shares with his brother.

 

He doesn't ever do anything he's told to do and doesn't care about consequences. If I make him stand in the corner he'll just fidget or say he has to go to the bathroom or wait until I'm not watching and simply walk away. He hardly has any toys because he doesn't care about them. I've taken away video games and outside time. I make him do pushups or run in the backyard, but then he acts like he's dying to try to get out of it (he's not).

 

I think I'll try the back to the basics thing. I'll give him food, but only the basics. He can have a roof over his head, but a pillow and blanket on the floor will work just fine (after all, this is how children all over the world sleep every night).

 

Hopefully, it's something he'll outgrow soon.

[burleygirl]

Dawn,

 

Are there outside activities that she does, (going over friends, camp, sports, dance, etc.)? If so, the next time she is scheduled to do them say no. Basically, nothing gets done until she chooses to obey and gets the picture. Her behavior may get worse before it gets better. However, I have started doing this with my daughter and it's working. It is hard to follow-thru and it inconveniences me sometimes but she needs to understand that disrespect nor disobedience is acceptable.

 

I agree with Chucki. They need to feel the pain of choosing not to participate in the family. But you have to be prepared to stick to it.

 

Good luck. I know it's probably frustrating.

[myfunnybunch]

If this is not new, and it's been slowly building, it's time for new discipline tactics.

 

But...if it's been only a week and this is fairly new behavior, you might want to try something that's kind of counter-intuitive.

 

Just walk away. Let it go entirely.

 

Then when things have calmed down, sit down and ask, "What's going on?" And listen. He'll probably say "I don't know." Or he'll tell you. Either way, you've got an opening for a discussion about growing up. My ds10 responds well to the idea of more responsibility, of being an important part of the family, of developing the kinds of habits and attitudes he wants to have as the man he's growing up to be. I'm very direct with him: When you behave this way, this is how it affects our family and our relationship.

 

Then over the next couple weeks, I'd make certain that the kids are....

Getting enough sleep.

Eating healthy foods.

Getting some downtime to rest.

Getting plenty of time with Mom and Dad, playing games or working side-by-side.

 

My ds10 finds he wants to go toe-to-toe with me a little lately. It's only happened a few times (maybe 3?) He says he doesn't know why, and he's caught himself before it's gotten there a few times too. Once we get to that spot, I don't back down. But I avoid placing us in a power struggle in the first place and make sure to take care of the relationship.

 

:grouphug:

 

Cat

[eternalknot]

make an older child (8 to 10) do what they are told? We're having a real problem with this this week and I'm tired of being stressed out and angry over the situation. I repeat the request and still get no response. I'm getting pretty fed up.

 

It's not just one thing in particular. Lately it seems to be everything: school work, chores, getting in the shower, cleaning up toys, getting ready for bed. Not only is it frustrating for me, but it sets a bad example for their younger brother.

 

Are they ignoring you in the sense that they're not even acknowledging you're speaking to them, or is it ignoring you in the sense that they simply choose not to do what you are asking of them ...?

 

What currently happens if you ask them to do school work, chores, get into the shower, clean up toys, prepare for bed? When they do not, that is; how is it currently being handled ...?

 

Those things make a difference in how I'd handle it, I think.

 

:grouphug: Hopefully the weekend brings some reprieve.

[FriedClams]

I'd go boot camp with him. Nothing harsh or mean, just a clearing out of the schedule so you can really focus on training. Summer is a great time for this. I'd sit him down and let him know, very calmly, what your expectations are, where he's not been meeting them, and what will happen should he continue. I'd then start with his chores. I'd walk through them with him, check them, and then encourage him when he does them well. Then, school... I'd keep him next to me throughout the day and be ready to encourage, guide, and correct. I'd make consequences clear and consistent. Depending on how long the behavior has festered, it could take a while to retrain, but with consistency and mentoring, you can do it. Be ready though, 9 year olds are tough animals!

[~Amanda~]

I'm having this problem, too, but I am at a loss for consequences. No TV, no games, etc... but its like it doesn't. "Turn off the TV".... 30 minutes later, I realize they've snuck back into my room, and turned off the TV. They use the excuse "L wanted to watch ____ movie" but she's 2, and doesn't stick around, and they get sucked into the movie or TV show, and get in trouble for it. I feel like I have to be drill seargent mom to make sure they are doing what they are supposed to; if I slack off for a few minutes, then everything goes crazy

[fairfarmhand]

I'm having this problem, too, but I am at a loss for consequences. No TV, no games, etc... but its like it doesn't. "Turn off the TV".... 30 minutes later, I realize they've snuck back into my room, and turned off the TV. They use the excuse "L wanted to watch ____ movie" but she's 2, and doesn't stick around, and they get sucked into the movie or TV show, and get in trouble for it. I feel like I have to be drill seargent mom to make sure they are doing what they are supposed to; if I slack off for a few minutes, then everything goes crazy

 

 

this is when tv's get unplugged, remotes disappear and fun little gadgets "lose" their batteries. I'd park mine in the garage for awhile because of this kind of thing.

[Kirch]

The problem is, I've got one with the "I don't care" attitude. No computer time for you. He doesn't care. No dessert for you. He doesn't care.

 

I can't give him chores for punishment, he's refusing to do his current chores.

I can't send him to bed early, he was not going to bed when sent already.

 

Do I physically drag him to the shower?

 

Is there any option other than spanking, or is that what it's going to have to boil down to?

 

Mine is still younger than this, but when we get to that point, EVERYTHING stops for him until he chooses to obey. No toys/playing, computer, TV, books, no going anywhere, not even meals (I've told him that if he sticks it out over a meal time he'll get a plain peanut butter sandwich, but I haven't actually had to do that). And then I try to keep life for the rest of us going on as normally as possible. I also try to be as matter-of-fact about it as possible and emphasize his choices and the consequences (good and bad). There have been times when I haven't gotten much else done for an afternoon, but I settled down with my book to wait and he eventually figured out that I was pretty committed to outlasting him.

 

Sometimes we do take toys or privileges away (screen time is a biggie here), but it has to be enough for it to make a difference. If taking the legos for one day doesn't faze him, it's not long enough. I'd try a week or two--or indefinitely, until he's shown you that he will cooperate.

[Dawn in OH]

Are they ignoring you in the sense that they're not even acknowledging you're speaking to them, or is it ignoring you in the sense that they simply choose not to do what you are asking of them ...?

 

I've been getting flat out ignored. This is not acceptable in our home and they both know it. When we speak, they are to acknowledge that they heard us. We do the same when they speak to us.

 

What currently happens if you ask them to do school work, chores, get into the shower, clean up toys, prepare for bed? When they do not, that is; how is it currently being handled ...?

 

Well, first I get ignored. Then I ask, "Did you hear me?" They reply with a groaned, miserable "Yes Ma'am". But no one moves. I'm usually giving instructions in passing, as I prepare breakfast, nurse the baby, grab my paperwork for school, etc. But I always check back in a matter of minutes and ask why isn't anyone doing what they are told. Then if no one's moving I say something about how they were told to do X and they need to do it NOW, not next Tuesday. I do my job, Daddy does his job and you need to do yours. Now let's MOVE! Then I stand there giving them the evil eye while I wait for them.

 

 

 

I'd go boot camp with him. Nothing harsh or mean, just a clearing out of the schedule so you can really focus on training. Summer is a great time for this. I'd sit him down and let him know, very calmly, what your expectations are, where he's not been meeting them, and what will happen should he continue. I'd then start with his chores. I'd walk through them with him, check them, and then encourage him when he does them well. Then, school... I'd keep him next to me throughout the day and be ready to encourage, guide, and correct. I'd make consequences clear and consistent. Depending on how long the behavior has festered, it could take a while to retrain, but with consistency and mentoring, you can do it. Be ready though, 9 year olds are tough animals!

 

The behavior hasn't festered long. We've never tolerated this. I may have become a bit more lax in the past year because I've been busy taking care of a baby, but I also expected that since they were older, they could be expected to follow simple instructions without me standing over them cracking a whip. Like all children, they get distracted or forget, but in the last few weeks it has became flat out ignoring me.

 

I've tried to explain that if everyone would just do what they are supposed to do, when they are supposed to do it everyone would be happier and have more time to do fun things. Right now, the older two children are more work than the little two. In addition, the constant chasing down and reminding, and repeating myself with the older two is cutting into the time I have for the little ones. I seem to be saying, "In a minute honey, Mommy's busy" to the 3 year old all of the time. He's constantly being put off while I do something for the baby or the older kids. He's really getting the short changed around here, he's smart enough to know it, and now he's giving me more grief than normal because he knows that will make me stop what I'm doing and pay attention to him.

 

They way things are right now, I'm so busy over-seeing, nagging, and being frustrated at the older kids that I have no time left in the day to enjoy them or show them any love.

[PeterPan]

Dawn, I guess you can say I have no room to talk with 2, not 4, but here goes. This age you're going into with your oldest is a real sprouting time. You've probably got some of that dynamic going on (meaning it would have happened no matter what and just got aggravated with the excuse of the baby and possibly less attention). Also, I don't know what all you're attempting to do right now, but I think you might like to take some time off school. Just do it. And then go down to only 3 days a week if you want to school through the summer. That will leave you time to do some fun things and relieve the crabbies. It sounds like things are hairy for you, and you need to give *yourself* quite a bit of grace as well as them.

 

See what's really happening is you have more going on than what you can keep up with. You can't bring them to the new level of discipline to fit their maturity growth AND help the new baby AND do all the schoolwork. At least not right now. So what you do is pause one of the things (the schoolwork) and put yourself in some more positive situations where you can get the discipline back on track. Work on the obedience and attitude without the added pressure of trying to do SCHOOL, kwim? Then come back to it in a couple weeks with everybody fresh and back on track about what you expect. Loosen up your days, ditch the school time, and do some fun things like the zoo. Make for less discipline problems, so you can confront the ones that really need to happen. At this age they learn quickly; a few quality battles and you'll probably be back on track.

 

Then, when you have life back in order (without school work), add the school time back in. But is it possible you need to do some work with scheduling? I've been thinking of this, even for myself with my lowly hovel of two. It's just hard to remember to be in 2 (or 3 or 4) places at once. You may need to research Managers of Their Home or some other such system and make a game plan that works for you. You may need to create a lot more structure. It may be, and I'm just saying this kindly (having btdt) that your boy is acting up BECAUSE he's not getting that attention and structure. Is there anything he likes to do or does well that you could harness and nurture in him? This is a good age to start finding those things. It might change how he feels if he is a bit empowered and accomplishing something. If he doesn't have something yet that he's becoming good at, maybe you could hook him up with someone who could do that for you. Just because we home school doesn't mean we lone school. He may need some man time.

 

And as for the idea that 10 is too old to discipline and remind them how to obey, well, um, nope. It doesn't take much (they catch on quickly), but it does take energy. Sometimes it's better just to revamp the situation and change the problem.

 

BTW, I don't do timeouts or any such thing, never have, but I have been sending my dd to her room for a few minutes with the suggestion that she come back with her apology. It's just sort of a flat, cold, ousting from my presence, you could say. :)

[endurancerider]

First, I require my children to ackowledge my requests with a simple, "Yes, mom". That way we both know that they have heard me, and the expectation has been set. Then, if they are in the middle of something, they can ask if they can do a little later. That way, I have the option of determining if the chore is "time-sensitive" (like opening the door for me quickly before I drop all of the things in my arms ;) ) or if it can wait until a more convenient time.

 

If the chore does not get done as an act of disobedience or laziness, I have my children run laps. Usually 5 laps around the house, but depending where we are, it could be around the car or wind sprints in a drive-way. Then, after the running, the original task must also be completed.

 

In essence, they can do the chore with or without running laps, that's the option that they have.

[Dawn in OH]

OhElizabeth,

 

I appreciate your input. I do like some of your suggestions, and had already considered some of them.

 

As for school, we are already on our light summer schedule. We are only working on the subjects we hadn't finished for the year yet, along with review sheets, so that no one forgets everything they learned, and reading. The year that we took the summer off everyone forget everything they ever learned. The last time we took a few weeks off, it was utter chaos. They seem to need the schedule and something to keep them out of mischief part of the day. Plus, I don't want the huge struggle of getting everyone back into a routine when summer is over. I personally would LOVE to take the time off, but it never seems to work well for us.There's more fighting. There's more attitude. There's more chaos. In a few more weeks we will be going down to three days a week due to our summer weekend events. I don't know, maybe we could just switch to the 3 day schedule now.

 

There's no scheduling problem on my end. I don't mean that as rudely as it sounds. I'm a scheduler - a planner - a former secretary. I have great schedules. I have great time management skills. The rest of the crew, not so much. They take after their Dad. The kids and Dad are all very (what's a nice word?) laid back about time and deadlines, with no sense of urgency. My expectations are not too high, I give everyone plenty of time to properly complete tasks, but they dawdle, stall, wander off, or refuse, messing with the schedule, and putting me into an end of the day panic trying to get dinner on the table and people fed in time for the younger ones bedtime.

 

You do make some very good points and have some good suggestions. Thank you. I appreciate it. You may only have two children, but you do have experience with something I don't, 10 year olds. I think I don't know enough about them for this job. I'll definitely consider more attention and structure and look for something that he does well to nurture.

 

Thank you all. I'm going to bed now and I will think about all the excellent advice I have received here and see if I can devise the master plan for restoring obedience and sanity to my home.

[kalanamak]

I

And then, if you are a Christian, there is a the whole,

"If a man doesn't work, neither should he eat" thing

 

Hey, that works for non-Christians as well, but for me, at least, "eating" is metaphorical at this point.

[kalanamak]

 

 

 

Well, first I get ignored. Then I ask, "Did you hear me?" They reply with a groaned, miserable "Yes Ma'am". But no one moves. I'm usually giving instructions in passing, as I prepare breakfast, nurse the baby, grab my paperwork for school, etc. But I always check back in a matter of minutes and ask why isn't anyone doing what they are told. Then if no one's moving I say something about how they were told to do X and they need to do it NOW, not next Tuesday. I do my job, Daddy does his job and you need to do yours. Now let's MOVE! Then I stand there giving them the evil eye while I wait for them.

 

 

 

 

Kiddo gets near this point at times. I have a conversation with him a la Raising a Thinking Child, which works because, at this point, he DOES want to be thought of as "good". Once, recently, he popped out the dreaded words "I don't care", and my response, calmly, about all the things I will no longer "care" about doing if that was truly his attitude was sobering, and I haven't heard it again (yet). Kiddo does realize we do a lot for him, but every now and then I have to remind him. :)

 

Oh, and the above "evil eye", for me, is done humorously. The silly evil eye breaks the tension, for us, and kiddo laughs and gets going.

[kalanamak]

He's not attached to material things. Sure, he likes his Lego's, he would be really angry if I threw them out, but being denied access to them for a day doesn't upset him. The same applies to any other toy or video game.

 

 

For my son, who is very social and physical, breaking his daily routine of going to Y is a big deal. He is not happy if grounded inside, so, when I "remove" something, it is not a toy, but physical activity or dessert.

[happypamama]

Honestly, if it took me (or DH) physically taking a kid to the shower, for instance, yup, that would happen. I look at it this way: a toddler isn't mature enough to know that he needs to take a bath, so sometimes I have to help. If my older child, even at 8 or 10, is displaying that same toddler-like immaturity, then yes, I will help. I have told my children, "I need you to get dressed, because we need to go out and do X. I am going to get myself and your little brother ready. Your choice is to get yourself ready by the time I'm done with that, or I will dress you myself/take you in your pajamas [depending on my mood and what we're doing]." They don't want that, so they do it themselves. It does help that I am still physically bigger than all of them, so it would be possible to dress them or drag them in their pajamas, so that might not help you.

 

For refusing to do reasonable household chores, or using an overly sullen attitude, more chores get assigned. Not doing your chores -- you must need more practice in doing them. Those chores will need to be done before you have *any* privileges.

 

I would invoke DH if need be. With my boys, especially, having Daddy get right in front of them, looking into their eyes, and stating what needs to happen really does seem to work. I see that only becoming more important as they get older. Not that Mom doesn't carry some weight, but more that if Daddy (who isn't here as much as Mom) gets involved, it's Important.

 

If a child refuses to do schoolwork, first find out if something else is going on, but if it's boiling down to stubborness or rebellion, well, that child can spend the evening doing schoolwork instead of hanging out and having fun. This is where you really may need your DH; either he can supervise schoolwork in the evening (and I mean really sitting there with them, so that they decide that being micromanaged isn't much fun, and it'd be easier just to get it done in the daytime when Mom first says so), or help with the younger kids. It goes without saying that around here, if you don't do your expected chores and schoolwork, you won't be going out for hikes with Daddy, and Mom isn't going to be inclined to take you to dance class or whatever either. I live by the "you want to share in the family's privileges, then you share in the family's combined efforts" rule.

 

Also (and I struggle with this), I have heard the phrase, "don't expect what you cannot inspect." If you give directions to do something, you need to be able to enforce that immediately, or have a consequence ready. I know it is so easy to say, "go do X" as you're passing through to change a diaper, in the hopes that they will do it, but if they know you won't enforce it, they won't do it. So you need to either be prepared to stop immediately and take their hand to make them do it, or put the work in front of them, or whatever, or you need to be ready to come back with a consequence if they haven't done it when you're done changing that diaper.

 

Not cleaning up toys = Mom setting the timer for however long it should take, and then Mom will clean up the toys if you don't do it. Mom's method means that the toys will get thrown away or put away for a very long time. I once took away all the Legos for a month, because I was tired of them being scattered all over and hearing grief about cleaning them up. (I do try to make it easy for them to clean them up, like suggesting a blanket to put under them, or even just allowing a pile of them in one corner, but that's harder with a young toddler.) They were much better about cleaning them up when they got them back.

 

Basically, do what needs to be done, cheerfully and willingly, and you have the chance to do it the way you prefer. Give us grief about it, and it'll still get done, only it will be under Mom and Dad's terms, which might not be your own.

Edited June 11, 2011 by happypamama

[MicheleinMN]

The problem is, I've got one with the "I don't care" attitude. No computer time for you. He doesn't care. No dessert for you. He doesn't care.

 

I can't give him chores for punishment, he's refusing to do his current chores.

I can't send him to bed early, he was not going to bed when sent already.

 

Do I physically drag him to the shower?

 

Is there any option other than spanking, or is that what it's going to have to boil down to?

 

I have had one like this a time or two. Usually I have the child sit in a chair or stand facing a wall until they are ready to do as he is told. If you won't do what you are told/asked to do...you get to do nothing. And it can and has been a physical battle at times that required his father to intervene and make said child understand who exactly is the alpha male in the home.

 

Basically it's a time out for an older child. I start with taking away privileges, but sometimes more is necessary. I have also cleared a child's room of everything except a bed with a sleeping bag and pillow.

 

HTH

[PeterPan]

There's no scheduling problem on my end. I don't mean that as rudely as it sounds. I'm a scheduler - a planner - a former secretary. I have great schedules. I have great time management skills. The rest of the crew, not so much. They take after their Dad. The kids and Dad are all very (what's a nice word?) laid back about time and deadlines, with no sense of urgency. My expectations are not too high, I give everyone plenty of time to properly complete tasks, but they dawdle, stall, wander off, or refuse, messing with the schedule, and putting me into an end of the day panic trying to get dinner on the table and people fed in time for the younger ones bedtime.

 

 

Couple things. When I said time off, I didn't really mean without structure. I meant time off as a way to do OTHER things. Park day, zoo day, history fieldtrip day, grandma day. So there's routine, structure, etc., just without the added complication of academics.

 

Next, it sounds like there's a clash, and I mean this nicely, between your personality and theirs. Unfortunately, sometimes one or the other has to give. Many people in the world live in a much looser way. You might be able to find a compromise there that, while not fitting *your* personality, fits theirs. Take me with dd. She totally takes after her father (dyslexic, loves history, people person, not too hot with traditional school stuff). I'm the total opposite (was extremely good in school, thrived on textbooks, etc. etc.). There's just no reconciling that, so I had to take a chill pill and join her bandwagon.

 

If your personality is a bit more secretarial than what can fit in with theirs, you might need to swing the other way. I'm trying to think how you could do this. You know what helps me a lot? I ask my dh what worked for him in school, what didn't. If they're like their father, that might help you too.

 

You know what else? (And this has nothing to do with you, just something I've been pondering) I think we try very hard, because we don't want to let them fail. If you decide it's ok to let them fail at some things, that might also loosen things up a bit.

 

Do you get to send them to Grandma's for a day? I've been doing that once a week with my toddler, and it's a great mercy. In your case, maybe send the whole clan. Or send half the clan one day, half the clan the next. Pick whatever makes your life better.

[2squared]

My perspective seems a little different. My dc are generally good kids, and they want to please me. When my oldest aren't obeying and listening, I know I need to shore up our relationship. When their hearts are in the right place, their actions follow.

 

I felt things were slipping a little earlier this week, so I have had the oldest two cooking dinner together. I teach them but they do all the work. We also did some craft projects together yesterday, and spent some time sitting and reading aloud. Basically we stopped our regular schedule to do things which would bring our hearts into alignment. I can really feel the difference today.