Lisabeth Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I've always allowed my kids to just read the books for Literature and then we just talk about what they've read and have a discussion. But now that she is a sophomore next year and I'll have a freshman also, I can't keep up reading with what they are reading. They have very different interests. I'm feeling guilty giving High School Credit for them just reading the book and us NOT discussing it or me not making them do a paper. What do other parents do for lit when the kids just really want to read? and how much do you expect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jibaker103 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I just came back from a homeschool conference and one of the workshops was "How to Wreck a Book." Students use various colored highlighters to pull information from any book being read. This information then can be used for discussions, studying for a test, notebooking, writing an essay, etc. For fiction Books: Pink is for Character Green is for Setting Yellow is for Plot Orange is for Elocutions Blue is for Favorite Passages This would be a good way for your kids to get some meaning out of the books they read without being to intrusive or time consuming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I just came back from a homeschool conference and one of the workshops was "How to Wreck a Book." Students use various colored highlighters to pull information from any book being read. This information then can be used for discussions, studying for a test, notebooking, writing an essay, etc. For fiction Books: Pink is for Character Green is for Setting Yellow is for Plot Orange is for Elocutions Blue is for Favorite Passages This would be a good way for your kids to get some meaning out of the books they read without being to intrusive or time consuming. This would drive me nuts! A little pencil in the margins is bad enough but HIGHLIGHTER!!!! On a book?!?!?! How is anyone else ever supposed to be able to enjoy that book? What is the point? It really does "wreck" it. If you want to be able to discuss it with them, read the Cliff's Notes so you have an idea of what they're talking about or assign them books you read eons ago. Or a combination. Or read and discuss some, write about others and just let them read others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jibaker103 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 This would drive me nuts! A little pencil in the margins is bad enough but HIGHLIGHTER!!!! On a book?!?!?! How is anyone else ever supposed to be able to enjoy that book? What is the point? It really does "wreck" it. If you want to be able to discuss it with them, read the Cliff's Notes so you have an idea of what they're talking about or assign them books you read eons ago. Or a combination. Or read and discuss some, write about others and just let them read others. It's not for anyone else to enjoy the book after obviously. It's about creating a personal keepsake and interacting with the book. I do not recommend doing this with a first edition, leather bound classic or an autographed copy but a book picked up for a couple of bucks yeah, go for it! I think it would be pretty cool to sit around with other family members to see and discuss what each picked out and why. It could open a world of awesome conversations without spending money on literature programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ester Maria Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I would not do it if you intend to grade the class. A grade, in my view, cannot be awarded for anything other than concrete demonstrated knowledge. I would require some form of concrete output, whether in forms of traditional essays, written exams, oral exams (which are NOT the same as a free-style conversation about the book as an exchange of ideas), or a mix of all of those (the best choice as it allows for variety and testing various skills). In fact, I would even have difficulties awarding (non-graded) credit without a tangible student "production" - something, some mark of a concrete activity has to be there, something other than the fact that they read / went through something. That is too vague. It is possible to base your grade exclusively on an exam, without requesting any papers; however, that would bring into question your scale for grading this particular subject. At the end of the day, it is "your homeschool and your rules"; however, traditionally, written production IS one of the key components of grading a high school language-and-literature class. I am not sure I would feel comfortable with this particular class lacking that aspect (some other subjects would be less problematic if they lacked that written production), as the bettering of one's written production is in fact one of the minor goals of most of those classes. The grading, in my view, would have to include both the written and the oral production (not on ALL books or ALL things studied, but a selected few, sure), as well as some sort of comprehensive exam (whether in an oral or a written format) to make sure the factual fundamentals, broader context and other things studied (those that were not the subject of papers / oral presentations / whatever) are still somehow "covered" and included in the final grade for the subject. If keeping up with two sets of readings is a problem, you might wish to: a) Combine them That way you have only one set of readings to keep up with. Depending on your general educational framework and dynamic (whether you tie readings to History, whether they are in the same cycle or work differently, how much you combine them anyway, etc.), this may or may not be doable. or b) Outsource the grading component This is not necessarily outsourcing the class as such, you could still have a say or even completely design what is studied, but somebody else who can read the works and has a time and knowledge needed for that might take upon themselves the "formalities" of essays and exams. That way you do not "cheat" and do not base their grade and credit on something you are not familiar with and have no idea whether they did or how well they did it, but at the same time you are only involved as much as time permits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myra Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I love this highlighter idea! I think putting a "highlighter" dot in the margins of the paperback book would be a quick and simple way of remembering different passages whether for future papers, discussions, or just a simple way to reinforce some literary "analysis" as we read! This fits in perfectly with my plans next school year where I am going to let my boys (me, included) take turns selecting a book for all of us to read at the same time while working seperately on research papers. Thanks, Myra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) I expect mine to do a paper or project for each work that counts as literature. If I haven't read the book, I get my mother (who has read a lot more than I have) to read the paper and critique it. If I haven't read the book, I make them answer TWEM questions to themselves or with me. The fact that I haven't read it forces them to explain themselves more clearly, which isn't a bad excersize, even if it doesn't exactly produce the best discussion. (Most of the time we read the books together.) If all else fails, you could look at one of the cheats and ask them to explain the aspects emphasized in the cheat. First I'd try to find a relative or friend who had read the book and ask them to go through TWEM questions, though. I made my son do something similar to the highlighter idea recently. I happened to be reading Caves of Steel (Asimov) and noticed that the author's purpose in putting in each bit of description or dialogue is very, very obvious in that particular book, so I had my son go through and write out for each chapter (usualy a paragraph or two) what the author had accomplished - told us more about a character, told us more about the setting, furthered the plot, etc. It turned out to be a very good excersize and accomplished much the same thing as the highlighting. I definately had to read the book, though, in order to figure out whether he had included all the important bits. It made it easier for him to write about the book afterwards and was a nice concrete assignment, the sort that my literal boys like. -Nan Edited June 9, 2011 by Nan in Mass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicheleinMN Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 :lurk5: I'm always interested in new/more ideas for interacting with literature and my children. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigid in NC Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 If you are one who finds value in marking up books (I write all over mine), you might be interested in this essay by Mortimer Adler (the author of How to Read a Book): How to Mark a Book. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Agreeing with the other posters: high school level Literature credit really requires literary analysis, discussion, and writing about at least some of the works read. Some works -- I'm thinking historical fiction -- can be read solo as supplement or for personal enjoyment without discussion or writing. And you do not have to go into the same level of depth for ALL the literature -- but I would suggest that you certainly need to go deep on at least one novel per quarter. I have found literature guides to be quite helpful with ideas for shorter (1 to several paragraphs response to specific event, character, chapter, etc.), and longer (overall lit. analysis essay, research paper, compare/contrast, etc.) writing assignment ideas. A good guide will also usually have chapter summaries to help YOU keep up if you don't have time to read the whole work. BEST of luck in forming a plan and finding resources to help you carry it out! Warmly, Lori D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenn in CA Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 What about only writing papers on some of the books? They could keep a reading journal, or write paragraph responses to questions like Lori D suggested, using questions from lit guides. I'm with you. I like to let my kids just read. It seems when you discuss or write about everything, the reading goes a lot slower. I do try to have my high schoolers write about some of their reading but not all. Also as far as grading writing goes. Not all writing needs to be amazing and a super-high level of sophistication & polished. Some writing can be "off the top of your head" such as reading journals, or paragraph answers. Some can be more polished. I like the idea of reading journals. My boys got tired of it after a while, but again, you could use them to mix things up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValRN Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 :bigear: I need all the teaching help I can get when it comes to literature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janice in NJ Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I believe it was Adler who pointed out that people who are afraid to write in their books respect the craft of the the printer more than the craft of the author. I've found that the only way I can TRULY interact with an author I can't talk to with my mouth is to reach him where he is. THROUGH the printer, he left his mark on the page. I choose to do the same. The world is going digital. All of this paper on shelves in my house is destined for the dumpster. The only way I can own these books is to own the ideas. The paper is temporary; I personally have decided to use the paper as a means to own the real books - the books the authors wrote. :001_smile: Psst: I originally would have been horrified if someone wrote in one of my books. I changed my mind. Really! And yes, I'm a heretic - even my edition of the Iliad with the sewn cloth marker has scribbles.... and I plan to work through it again with my youngest next year. Gasp: I'll be writing side-ways to fit all of my new comments. (giggle) How unattractive, right! Nope. We're connecting with Homer and the ancients Greeks. The pages are the serving trays and the dishes. The meal is the Iliad. :001_smile: Psst: Homer was a story teller. He only used the paper because he had no other way to reach us. The paper is not the book. The ideas are the book. Peace, Janice Enjoy your little people Enjoy your journey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janice in NJ Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) Lisa, Require some kind of output. Start out simply; don't kill every book with a full-blown research paper. But plan to require some kind of output per quarter. You won't regret it. ;) Peace, Janice Edited June 9, 2011 by Janice in NJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Nope! Janice, I love you, but I'm still NOT going to write in my nice books!!! :D In a "beater" used paperback edition, well, okay. But for me, when I re-read a book, I DON'T want to HAVE to read my previous thoughts or comments -- I want to be able to come back to the book FRESH, with new thoughts, and (hopefully!) new maturity, new ideas, new interactions. And afterwards, *if* I really want to include previous thoughts -- THEN I can go to either my notebook of annotations and thoughts, or to my "beater" copy. I still prefer making my notes/annotations in a notebook -- which also allows me quick comparison with MULTIPLE works, just by flipping a few pages in my notebook! ;) (Not to mention a WHOLE lot more writing space!) But that's me and MY preferred style of "conversation" with The Great Books! Here's a past thread on the whole idea of marking in books that might be of interest: Help me get over my phobia -- writing in books. Wishing we could all just get together and enjoy LIVE book discussions, Janice! Warmest regards, Lori D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jibaker103 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I plan on forming a literary circle with me, my son, and my mom. We will read and "wreck" the book (I have a Kindle. I'm going to see if I can highlight in different colors from it or the Kindle PC) and then copy the information into a literature commonplace book. From there ds will be able to narrate, complete a writing assignment, and/or create a project. I will let him choose which books he wants to do this with from a list of my making. The rest will be free reading. I am struggling with how many books to put on the list and how many to include in the literary circle. Anyone have advice on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Nope! Janice, I love you, but I'm still NOT going to write in my nice books!!! :D In a "beater" used paperback edition, well, okay. But for me, when I re-read a book, I DON'T want to HAVE to read my previous thoughts or comments -- I want to be able to come back to the book FRESH, with new thoughts, and (hopefully!) new maturity, new ideas, new interactions. And afterwards, *if* I really want to include previous thoughts -- THEN I can go to either my notebook of annotations and thoughts, or to my "beater" copy. I still prefer making my notes/annotations in a notebook -- which also allows me quick comparison with MULTIPLE works, just by flipping a few pages in my notebook! ;) (Not to mention a WHOLE lot more writing space!) But that's me and MY preferred style of "conversation" with The Great Books! Here's a past thread on the whole idea of marking in books that might be of interest: Help me get over my phobia -- writing in books. Wishing we could all just get together and enjoy LIVE book discussions, Janice! Warmest regards, Lori D. I have likewise changed from writing in my books to writing in notebooks. Like you, I don't want to re-read my old notes (sometimes they even irritate me!) Instead, I write summaries, outlines, diagrams, responses, etc. in my notebooks There just isn't room in the margins for real thinking. And I can't think of how just coloring the book, without writing anything, would help at all. As to the OP, I agree with Ester Maria's advice to combine them. It makes for a better discussion, anyway. And I think writing about what you read is an important step in processing it. I would outsource this or something else if necessary, but I would make sure they are discussing and writing about literature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendi Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) I recommend you do one semester of Windows to the World; it not only covers literary analysis, but teaches how to write a literary analysis paper. There's a syllabus that combines Teaching the Classics with Windows to the World. You can do it in one semester using short stories and poems, or add some extra novels and take one year. The syllabus lays it all out. You don't have to use Teaching the Classics if you don't think your students need it. Just start with Windows to the World. Then, use study guides (Progeny Press, centerforlit.com, etc.) if needed to help them analyze future works and write about them. I just bought Windows to the World and plan to use it with my 9th grader this year. I think it will really prepare him for the rest of high school literature. HTH, Wendi Edited June 9, 2011 by Wendi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MommyThrice Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 There's a syllabus that combines Teaching the Classics with Windows to the World. Can you tell me where you found this? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jibaker103 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Can you tell me where you found this?Thanks! It's on the IEW website at www.excellenceinwriting.com/wlg-e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 And you check out the table of contents and sample pages at Christian Book's website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I would definately combine them. I combined mine and the discussions were much better with three. When the older one left, I dragged in my mother to make the third. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MommyThrice Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Thanks, y'all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabeth Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 Thank you all for your responses. I'm still at the drawing board and still trying to figure it all out. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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