Fix my thought process! please

[amo_mea_filiis.]

DD starts counseling on Thursday. She needs counseling because ds is mean to her, very mean. (I am currently addressing everything) He will call her names, put her down, sometimes hit, and is all around abusive. She has counseling with a domestic abuse place (seemed to the best in the area).

 

Over the past 2 days (yes, 2 whole days :D), ds has been in a great mood. No cursing, no name calling, and he has not been flipping out on dd. However, every single time ds goes through a positive behavior change, dd has negative changes. Either that or her overall behavior goes unnoticed because of how severe ds tends to be.

 

I know I should be way more consistent with her, but I fail because I feel horrible for the way ds treats her.

 

My being firm and consistent regarding her behavior and responsibilities will only help in the long run, right? So why can't I do it?

 

When she quietly refuses to do her chores, or take care of basic responsibilities, I'll usually let it slide because "she already deals with so much".

 

I know my thought process needs to change. Please help me!

[trailofsparks]

Are you in the counseling room with her? If she were my dd, I would want to be in with her, at her age. I would try to reconnect with her.

 

Plus, it sounds like your ds needs counseling or discipline or something. Do his postive behavior changes last? That's great if he is in a process moving toward more positive behavior in general. . . . But if not, maybe he needs some help, too. I see that he has aspergers; I know very little about the spectrum.

 

I'm concerned your dd might be getting the wrong message: she's the one who needs fixing, so she's going to counseling. Not ds.

 

I'm sorry. . . I read your post 3x, but I don't feel like I have a good idea of what you're asking for - and I hesitate to post this.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

The short version- Making dd do her chores and keep up with basic responsibilities (showering, brushing teeth), while working hard to change ds's behavior, is the right thing to do, right? I should not feel bad for being "mean" and making her shower, or put her laundry away, right?

 

Counseling for her is to talk about her feelings towards ds and save her self esteem.

 

It's hard to be consistent with her. She doesn't yell like ds, she just doesn't do anything. When told to get off the computer, she'll get really quiet and I'll forget. She'll procrastinate about showering by always saying she'll take one in the morning. Morning comes, and I'm busy fighting with ds and dd manages to make it to school not having showered or brushed her teeth.

 

Ds's current behavior change will last, as they usually do. What I'm doing different is paying close attention to possible new behaviors and stopping them right away. I'm keeping a simple behavior log to be sure I stop something before it gets to be a problem.

 

I was seeking behavior help for ds for a long time. After a lot of failed attempts, I gave up on the "experts" and became confident in my own skills as his parent. Since this epiphany, ds has been having more positive days. Counseling never worked because of his language delay.

[Carol in Cal.]

You really do have your hands full. :grouphug:

[prairiewindmomma]

I believe the OP's ds has aspie rages.

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by prairiewindmomma

[prairiewindmomma]

Sorry, you posted before I finished my rambling...

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Ds has not hit in quite a while. When working with various behavior therapists, the only thing that would happen is that his behaviors would cycle. Hitting would decrease, destruction would increase. Destruction would decrease, and he'd start spitting. All a horrible cycle.

 

He's gone 2 days with no cursing and not a single name calling. This worked for his anger as well. Dd did something today that would normally get him overreacting. But since he had to think before yelling, he actually calmed down. If something is going to fail, it will fail right away.

 

I would step in when I saw the signs that he was about to blow up, but the more I did, the more I realized that dd antagonizes him!

 

Overall, ds's behavior has dramatically improved over the last 9 months.

[TheAutumnOak]

The short version- Making dd do her chores and keep up with basic responsibilities (showering, brushing teeth), while working hard to change ds's behavior, is the right thing to do, right? I should not feel bad for being "mean" and making her shower, or put her laundry away, right?

 

 

 

Do you really feel "mean" for requiring your daughter to shower and put her laundry away?...My son is 10 and he is required to shower, brush his teeth, put his and his younger brother's laundry away (after he folds it), clean our rabbit cages, set the table for meals and load and unload the dishwasher 6 days a week...I don't feel "mean" or "bad" in any way...Grooming yourself and doing chores is a part of life...I asign my boys jobs (even my 4 year old) and check to make sure it is done...I hang a chart on their wall to remind them, but they are good about doing it now because they know I will check...

[TheAutumnOak]

Ds has not hit in quite a while. When working with various behavior therapists, the only thing that would happen is that his behaviors would cycle. Hitting would decrease, destruction would increase. Destruction would decrease, and he'd start spitting. All a horrible cycle.

 

He's gone 2 days with no cursing and not a single name calling. This worked for his anger as well. Dd did something today that would normally get him overreacting. But since he had to think before yelling, he actually calmed down. If something is going to fail, it will fail right away.

 

I would step in when I saw the signs that he was about to blow up, but the more I did, the more I realized that dd antagonizes him!

 

Overall, ds's behavior has dramatically improved over the last 9 months.

 

 

Do you mind if I ask what you do when DS curses, yells, hits, or spits?...What do behavior therapists suggest you do?

 

:grouphug:

[Starr]

Different things may come out of this counseling than you think. The whole family dynamic will show up not just dd's stuff. I would do family counseling.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

It has varied over the years with age and differing opinions.

 

The biting was the first. He was kicked out of a daycare and suspended from another. Behavior therapist said to "crib him", which was just time out but in a crib so he couldn't hurt anyone. The cribbing went on for months. After tossing that behavior therapist I decided to give ds a pacifier (at 2y/o) and he never bit again.

 

Spitting- Not sure how this started, but nothing was working. We did time out, making him spit it all out in the toilet, and some other things. What worked was ignoring. We didn't leave the house for weeks. I made sure that when he got mad, I would avoid getting spit on in my face, and just ignored it. It stopped once it had no power. Since then he has spit twice. Once was when 3 boys cornered him on the playground, and he spit at them, which worked and he came to me (I was already going to get him).

 

The cursing started while I was working with a psychologist to reduce the hitting. The hitting was really bad and targeted at dd. Since it was ingrained that only one behavior can be targeted at a time, I was blind when it happened. I was thrilled that he was using ANY words in place of hitting.

 

Then the cursing and name calling got out of control. To reduce this, he currently has a daily behavior plan where he can earn a sticker per hour when nothing bad leaves his mouth. At the end of the day dd and I are really excited for him, and we all have a little ice cream. At the end of the week, I'll reduce the stickers to every 2 hours.

 

The most recent behavior therapist agreed with ignoring the cursing, but only in theory. Where I disagreed strongly was if he did something that required a timeout, and cursed going to his room, I was supposed to add a minute per curse. I disagreed because we are either ignoring it or we're not. I felt like I was antagonizing him by punishing him for listening (he was complying and going to his room).

 

The biggest mistake on everyone's part (mine- big time) was not learning the reason for the behavior. Most kids do things for attention, even if that attention is negative. The answer is to take the attention away. With my son, 90+% of his behavior is to escape. Escape attention and escape responsibilities (avoid attention being biggest).

 

So when he was a non-verbal, biting 2 year old in daycare, his behavior was reinforced with the cribbing. He WANTED the crib, he wanted to be left alone.

 

Most behavior therapists that I've worked with, have experience with kids who need discipline and attention. When they come to us and see that I play with my kids, have rules, have consequences, and follow through (yes, this post is about not being able to follow through with my daughter), they can't think outside the box.

[Little Nyssa]

I, also, would consider family counseling.

 

And, I don't think you are being mean to keep your daughter to a reasonable standard.

 

:grouphug:

[OrganicAnn]

Could your DD be so use to negative attention from her brother, than when he is good it causes her to act out to get negative attention from some other source - you? So your discipline might be adding to her dysfunctional behavior. I hesitate to even post, since you really need more of a pro to help you. I think family counseling would be good.

Edited June 8, 2011 by OrganicAnn

[prairiewindmomma]

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Edited November 10, 2021 by prairiewindmomma

[trailofsparks]

DD starts counseling on Thursday. She needs counseling because ds is mean to her, very mean. (I am currently addressing everything) He will call her names, put her down, sometimes hit, and is all around abusive. She has counseling with a domestic abuse place (seemed to the best in the area).

 

Over the past 2 days (yes, 2 whole days :D), ds has been in a great mood. No cursing, no name calling, and he has not been flipping out on dd. However, every single time ds goes through a positive behavior change, dd has negative changes. Either that or her overall behavior goes unnoticed because of how severe ds tends to be.

 

I know I should be way more consistent with her, but I fail because I feel horrible for the way ds treats her.

 

My being firm and consistent regarding her behavior and responsibilities will only help in the long run, right? So why can't I do it?

 

When she quietly refuses to do her chores, or take care of basic responsibilities, I'll usually let it slide because "she already deals with so much".

 

I know my thought process needs to change. Please help me!

 

OK, now I understand what you're asking encouragement for (I've read your posts up to page 2). First, can I just affirm you for all your VERY hard work and what you've accomplished in helping your son? No wonder you are having a harder time focusing on your dd's needs. Seriously. You must be exhausted much of the time.

 

You asked for encouragement to change your thought processes. You find it hard to follow up with your dd, because she goes through so much due to the attention your ds needs from you right now. You are looking for an easy way to "reward" her for the pain she has endured. What I think she needs is to reconnect with you - and gain your positive attention, affirmation, etc for what she does right.

 

Would a simple (you need simple) chart help her and you - something that lists her responsibilities and she can check them off as she does them. You can do random checks - and if every time you check and she has it done, the two of you can find a way to celebrate by spending time together. I'm thinking a chart in a plastic sleeve and a Vis a vis marker or dry erase - something you don't have to think about too much.

 

:grouphug: and all the best to your family.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I, also, would consider family counseling.

 

And, I don't think you are being mean to keep your daughter to a reasonable standard.

 

:grouphug:

 

I do think the counseling place with work with dd and I.

 

Could your DD be so use to negative attention from her brother, than when he is good it causes her to act out to get negative attention from some other source - you? So your discipline might be adding to her dysfunctional behavior. I hesitate to even post, since you really need more of a pro to help you. I think family counseling would be good.

 

Bolded mine. Sometimes it's easier to see a problem that is not your own, which is why I posted. I've tossed many professionals! :D I've been wondering if negative attention/interactions is her normal and she's resisting the change to positive (not consciously resisting, but aspie-doesn't-like-change resisting).

 

In terms of helping you follow through....I will share what I do.

 

I do remind myself that my goal for my children is to help them be considerate, compassionate, capable adults. They need coaching and follow through to learn to be consistent in their daily personal habits and studies. It's not punishment--it's guiding. You can guide in a loving, positive manner (and even when they respond in a not-so-loving manner).

 

In your behavioral log, I would also note what happens with dd.....and how *you* react in the mix. I went through a rough patch with my ds when he was 4 and at the height of his destructionism. I learned that my own ds really responds to positive words of encouragement, and 80% of what was coming out of my mouth were reminders or criticism....not positive words. It was a lightbulb moment for me. It obviously wasn't a magical cure-all, but it was something I could change. I also learned that dd was the ringleader of the mischief a good chunk of the time by telling him to go do stuff (she was 2), and that ds was acting as follower. ;)

 

I am forever telling people to read about functional behavior assessments and chart their dc. Why have I not yet charted dd?! Thank you for the reminder. :)

 

OK, now I understand what you're asking encouragement for (I've read your posts up to page 2). First, can I just affirm you for all your VERY hard work and what you've accomplished in helping your son? No wonder you are having a harder time focusing on your dd's needs. Seriously. You must be exhausted much of the time.

 

You asked for encouragement to change your thought processes. You find it hard to follow up with your dd, because she goes through so much due to the attention your ds needs from you right now. You are looking for an easy way to "reward" her for the pain she has endured. What I think she needs is to reconnect with you - and gain your positive attention, affirmation, etc for what she does right.

 

Would a simple (you need simple) chart help her and you - something that lists her responsibilities and she can check them off as she does them. You can do random checks - and if every time you check and she has it done, the two of you can find a way to celebrate by spending time together. I'm thinking a chart in a plastic sleeve and a Vis a vis marker or dry erase - something you don't have to think about too much.

 

:grouphug: and all the best to your family.

 

Thank you. She does have schedules and chore charts, but I have failed to reward her appropriately when she has responsible weeks.

 

We'll start by going for more walks. Ds has no interest in walking and chatting so he'll just run ahead. Dd would love to walk and talk. I will also remind her that when she gets her evening routine finished by 7, we can read from the kindle (currently Alice's adventures in wonderland). She loves being read to, but after fighting all day and her procrastinating until 9:30 or later, I've been neglecting this time with her.

 

Thank you all again!

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Wanted to add- I've also been allowing the kids to go higher in the yard (property is hilly, so the back yard is up) so that I don't hear their bickering. They work more out because neither wants to come all the way down to the house to tattle. I've noticed more compromised play if I stay out of it. DD tends to rule the game, and ds wants to play with her more than he dislikes her game ideas.

 

Hopefully their playing will last because they're going to have a LOT more time together very soon!

[Peela]

I can relate to your situation but I dont know if my story would help much. My younger is a boy who has always demanded the lion's share of attention, with behavioural and learning issues, and my girl is my easy going one who sails through life and is good at everything, and doesnt fight much at all.

But she is like your dd- ask her to do something she doesnt want to do- and she will go quiet and just not do it, even after saying she will.

She is passive aggressive. She also knows that I am more likely to ask her for help with something than her brother. For example, we have a house inspection tomorrow- I had ds vacuum. I am having dd scrub the mould in their shower recess. A much worse job- and I didn't consciously choose the harder job for her, but she noticed it and pointed it out to me. She wont complain- but she might not do it, either.

 

In your case...can you be consistent with her gently? Even to the point of doing it with her, such as standing alongside her and chatting with her as you help her do something you want her to do, so she feels connected with you? I know I need to make the effort to connect with my dd, and its not hard because she is sweet and open, but its easy to let it slide when ds is so demanding. Chores can be a lovely way to connect and ease the burden, and at the same time, hold her accountable.A few times doing it with her, and with a sense of humour and lightness, adn the chore no longer seems so burdensome. (I have a lot of empathy for kids with chores because I remember I hated them so much as a kid). I have an image of eras gone by where women work together, chatting- a women's culture. A way to be with your daughter.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

In your case...can you be consistent with her gently? Even to the point of doing it with her, such as standing alongside her and chatting with her as you help her do something you want her to do, so she feels connected with you? I know I need to make the effort to connect with my dd, and its not hard because she is sweet and open, but its easy to let it slide when ds is so demanding. Chores can be a lovely way to connect and ease the burden, and at the same time, hold her accountable.A few times doing it with her, and with a sense of humour and lightness, adn the chore no longer seems so burdensome. (I have a lot of empathy for kids with chores because I remember I hated them so much as a kid). I have an image of eras gone by where women work together, chatting- a women's culture. A way to be with your daughter.

 

This is what I need to do, and will do! I really, really, really hope that I'll be right about not having school making some things easier. We never really have to rush to get ready, but we don't have time to sit and relax, either. After school is terrible. They only have 5 minutes before their friend is here, and that pretty much kills the afternoon. The evening is then spent getting ds ready for bed and watching dd procrastinate. Ds is in bed by 6ish which is supposed give me and dd 2 hours before her bedtime.

 

No school (meaning not having to leave the house for 7 hours) will open up our time. Their friend will only be around on Mondays and Tuesdays.