Grad School?

[Karen in CO]

My ds will graduate next year with a degree in international relations and a minor in Japanese. During his course of studies, he's become very interested in the economics of developing nations and has realized that the jobs he's interested in all require advanced degrees (MA or higher).

 

Help me think through the issues around graduate studies. How do people pay for this? Do they typically get some type of aid? Where do they live? Do they typically work prior to going to graduate school? How do you find "the right" graduate school for a given area of study? Again, how to you pay for this? When do you take the GRE and is it required for most schools?

[JennW in SoCal]

From what little I know:

 

Yes, take the GRE

 

Many grad students can fund their studies by being teaching assistants and doing research with faculty.

 

Start shopping the same way we start shopping for colleges. Head to the library and book store and look for the big Princeton and Kaplan and US News list of top grad programs, make a list of possibilities then start scouring the websites of specific schools. Do a google search. Find Economics scholarly publications to see what kind of research is going on at specific schools. Have your ds contact the authors of studies that match his interests and see what grad programs and opportunities they have. Find out where the people with the jobs he wants went to school.

 

He can go straight into grad school, or take some time off. Whatever he needs and wants.

 

And, by the way, how wonderful to have him home for the summer!! Is he experiencing reverse culture shock?

[MorganClassicalPrep]

Help me think through the issues around graduate studies. How do people pay for this? Do they typically get some type of aid? Where do they live? Do they typically work prior to going to graduate school? How do you find "the right" graduate school for a given area of study? Again, how to you pay for this? When do you take the GRE and is it required for most schools?

 

Well, graduate studies in different programs can be widely different, so hopefully someone with experience in economics will chime in, but here's what I do know. (I'm looking at history graduate programs)

 

Living- Most of the graduate schools I am looking at have graduate student housing. There are also significant numbers of people living off campus. The exact percentage of students living on vs. off campus can be anywhere from a large majority to a small majority.

 

Finding a graduate school - My professors have been a great help here. In particular, I have worked closely with a professor in the field I want to study in, and she has already offered her assistance when I start narrowing down which schools I'll be applying too. His professors will have a good idea of his strengths/weaknesses, interests, and what schools will be the best fit. (And he will need their recommendations anyway, so it would be a good idea to talk with a couple about graduate school)

 

As for paying, I will (hopefully!) have complete tuition remission as well as a living stipend. I have been told by my professors that this is how it works in history, but it could be different in economics. Something else that his professors would be able to advise on.

 

I'll probably be taking the GRE in the spring of 2012, to apply for grad schools in the fall of 2012. (Undergrad graduation= spring 2013, entering grad school in fall of 2013.) The last date I could take it and still have results back in time to be sent with my applications would be late summer of 2012, but I want to allow myself enough time for a retake if needed. Hope that timeline helps a little!!

I have found that the GRE is required for all of the schools I'm considering- again, this may be different for different programs. When DS starts to prepare, tell him to be sure to get a review program that has a computer component. The GRE review books are great- but he also wants to practice on the computer, since the test is on the computer and it is weighted. It self-adjusts based on your answers.

 

Hope I was of (at least a little!) help. :001_smile:

[Karen in CO]

From what little I know:

 

Yes, take the GRE

 

Many grad students can fund their studies by being teaching assistants and doing research with faculty.

 

Start shopping the same way we start shopping for colleges. Head to the library and book store and look for the big Princeton and Kaplan and US News list of top grad programs, make a list of possibilities then start scouring the websites of specific schools. Do a google search. Find Economics scholarly publications to see what kind of research is going on at specific schools. Have your ds contact the authors of studies that match his interests and see what grad programs and opportunities they have. Find out where the people with the jobs he wants went to school.

 

He can go straight into grad school, or take some time off. Whatever he needs and wants.

 

And, by the way, how wonderful to have him home for the summer!! Is he experiencing reverse culture shock?

 

Thanks for your suggestions, and yes, he is. The longer he is there, the stranger it is for him when he comes home. He is still amazed when he overhears casual conversation and it is in English and catches himself being amazed at how many Americans there are. He also forgets that he isn't supposed to bow when he meets people.

[Karen in CO]

One of the problems with his school is that the professors have been rotating in and out of it so many of his favorite professors are gone. I'll make sure he knows that he will need recommendations for grad school. That is something I hadn't considered.

[actuary]

I was an economics major in undergrad, at one point considering grad school and from what I understood from talking to my professors and researching programs, there is almost always full funding (living stipend + tuition paid) for an economics phd program but for masters programs you are more rarely going to get aid in the form of free tuition/a living stipend. Also from what my professors told me, a masters in economics is not very useful - it won't get you many more jobs than a bachelor's will. To get a job as a full fledged economist, at least according to my professors, you would need a phd.

 

I ended up changing my mind though and going into actuarial work so I don't have any brilliant wisdom but maybe some secondhand knowledge helps?:tongue_smilie:

[actuary]

But if he wants to do an economics graduate program, he would need a really strong math background. From what I understand, economics grad programs accept plenty of non-econ majors for grad school but they need to have taken plenty of advanced math classes, ideally classes such as basic real analysis, differential equations, maybe an intro to abstract algebra class, definitely a basic linear algebra class. Again, I'm just going off what my professors told me about what sort of preparation is needed. The first year of economics grad school is extremely math intensive from what I've heard.

[Karen in CO]

But if he wants to do an economics graduate program, he would need a really strong math background. From what I understand, economics grad programs accept plenty of non-econ majors for grad school but they need to have taken plenty of advanced math classes, ideally classes such as basic real analysis, differential equations, maybe an intro to abstract algebra class, definitely a basic linear algebra class. Again, I'm just going off what my professors told me about what sort of preparation is needed. The first year of economics grad school is extremely math intensive from what I've heard.

 

That is one of things in his mind - he loves economics, but isn't overly fond of the math invloved. He's also looking at International Affairs and Public Policy degrees.

[memphispeg]

From what I've heard from kids recently, it is best to work a year or two at someplace that is interesting to him now. That way he can define what sort of grad degree he wants/needs, really narrow down his field of interest. Then he can look at specific departments and faculty at various universities. For example, if he decides he is interested in foreign NGO type aid and developing-country economics, he would look at schools that gear their int. rel. or econ curricula towards that interest. If he is interested in political economy then he might go someplace else. He should read faculty publications and correspond directly with someone who he wants to work with.

Prepping for the GRE is pretty straight forward with the Kaplan style courses. He should definitely ask around about which one is the best.

[Momling]

I'd suggest going for a PhD rather than a terminal masters. PhD programs usually offer an MA or MPhil or something else along the way. Plus, academic PhD programs should be funded. The standard where I went was 6 years at $2000/month... plus tuition and health insurance. Other universities offered assistance based on teaching or research assistant work. Regardless, you really shouldn't pay tuition for an good academic graduate degree -- the job market is hard enough!

[Karen in CO]

Yikes 6 years..... So my oldest will still be in school (technically) when my next one goes to school. I had these kids so far apart so that wouldn't happen. ;)

 

Seriously. Thanks. Not paying sounds good to me.

[Gwen in VA]

Ds1 was interested in a Ph.D. in economics and dd1 is heading into a Ph.D. program in engineering next fall, so I'll share what I've found out, though most of it has already been covered --

 

1) Don't pay for grad school. (Well, that depends on the subject area, but in general, don't pay.) Ds has been told that grad school in economics should come with funding. If it doesn't, the school does not really want your son to attend.

 

Funding comes in the form of fellowships (most desirable), research assistantships and teaching assistantships (very desirable), and various tuition breaks. The funding usually covers both tuition and living expenses. Funding can be extremely generous -- like over $30K per year.

 

2) Your son should take the GRE sometime this summer or early next fall. Unfortunately they're changing it, so sometime in August or so it will be a "new" exam. Joy.

 

3) A background in advanced math is more essential for grad work in economics than a background in economics! If he isn't into math, he might consider public policy or international relations, etc. But higher level math courses are essential for econ.

 

4) Most schools have grad housing, but they never have enough grad housing, so it's pretty common to live off-campus even the first year. (Dd is trying to find a roommate and figure out the off-campus apartment stuff right now!)

 

5) Strong recommendations are essential. If the profs he liked have left the school, they can still write his recs.

 

6) Like applying to college, applying to 6 or even 8 schools is not uncommon. Since the economy is down and jobs are harder to find, more students are applying to grad school so the admissions are quite competitive right now.

 

7) The application is a bit easier than a college app though -- basically each school just wants a "who am I -- why I want to go to your program -- these are my future plans" essay of varying length and with a few twists. But you don't have to explain which mathematical function represents the real you (my all-time favorite college applications essay question from U Chicago!)

 

8) College confidential has some grad school admissions info. Another source is thegradcafe.com

 

8) Some students do go straight to grad school, but it is very common tp work for a year before head to grad school, so if your son can't figure out what his next step should be, working for a year or two is fine.

 

Good luck. Life after college is yet another leap that our kids have to make!

[Karen in CO]

Since this morning, my ds has found a master's program in Geneva he is interested in. :glare: Geneva? Three years in Japan and now he's looking at Switzerland? He likes the International in International Relations.

 

I was starting to happily dream of him doing 6 years in a PhD program somewhere closer to home. Oh well. He has a couple of semesters before then, his internship in the spring, and his kindergarten English teaching job.

 

Anyone know anything about international graduate schools?

[MorganClassicalPrep]

Since this morning, my ds has found a master's program in Geneva he is interested in. :glare: Geneva? Three years in Japan and now he's looking at Switzerland? He likes the International in International Relations.

 

I was starting to happily dream of him doing 6 years in a PhD program somewhere closer to home. Oh well. He has a couple of semesters before then, his internship in the spring, and his kindergarten English teaching job.

 

Anyone know anything about international graduate schools?

 

The only thing I know about international graduate schools is that he should definitely make sure to fully vet the program and see if the degree will be accepted in the United States. The university system in Europe isn't the same as in the United States.

 

Unless he doesn't plan on working in the United States, in which case, I guess that point is moot! :D

[Gwen in VA]

Money is harder to find for grad programs abroad. :-(

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Thanks for your suggestions, and yes, he is. The longer he is there, the stranger it is for him when he comes home. He is still amazed when he overhears casual conversation and it is in English and catches himself being amazed at how many Americans there are. He also forgets that he isn't supposed to bow when he meets people.

 

I still catch myself bowing to anyone Asian looking. And my kids complain that US 7-11 isn't any good because it has neither sushi nor special Kit Kat nor Koolish squeeze ice cream.

[Jane in NC]

You have received some excellent advice but I would like to chime in with a couple of things:

 

Since grad school is a time for specialization, a student really needs to be looking for a mentor. Granted, when I applied to grad school, I had no idea what field of mathematics I would pursue. Things worked out well for me and perhaps my situation is typical. But if your son knows that he wants to study a particular aspect of economics, he should make sure that a tenured faculty member shares his interests.

 

Whether he goes straight from undergrad to grad school can be dependent upon the discipline. People who want an MBA, for example, usually need to have some work experience beforehand. Those studying physics, chemistry or math usually go directly from undergrad to grad--although certainly not all do. The graduate director in a department will tell your son about the ideal candidate for the program. This is in the States though. That is another question for our European board members since degree specialization begins earlier for them.

 

Good luck to him!

[JFSinIL]

From what I've heard from kids recently, it is best to work a year or two at someplace that is interesting to him now. That way he can define what sort of grad degree he wants/needs, really narrow down his field of interest. Then he can look at specific departments and faculty at various universities. For example, if he decides he is interested in foreign NGO type aid and developing-country economics, he would look at schools that gear their int. rel. or econ curricula towards that interest. If he is interested in political economy then he might go someplace else. He should read faculty publications and correspond directly with someone who he wants to work with.

Prepping for the GRE is pretty straight forward with the Kaplan style courses. He should definitely ask around about which one is the best.

 

AND - working for a year or two first can help "age" him out of the FAFSA parental income requirement....I did get an MA but worked and waited until I could qualify for my own aid for a PhD program w/o my folks income being looked at! Is it to age 24 or 26 that FAFSA still considers parental income???

[Karen in CO]

Thanks - I hadn't even considered that the FAFSA would do that. Our income has been nixing any chance he would have for need based aid. Alone, he'd probably do better. And I wouldn't have to fill out that ridiculous form :)

[Samuel]

The general advice on graduate school is good--GREs and good recommendations are important. I would also add that a well crafted statement of purpose explaining why a school is a good fit also matters.

If your son is not really into math graduate economics is not a good fit. Something like development studies will require some math, but not the same all math all the time focus.

 

Some field specific stuff:

1) The Phd is a usually a reserch degree, not a practioner's degree. The sort of jobs people get with a Phd are ofter quite different from an ma in international affairs or public policy. Getting it paid for is not a good reason to start a PhD--in fact less than 50% of students who start phds finish the degree (in some disciplines, 25%)--you need to really want to do independent research.

2) Work experience in a practitioner track is important (I'm talking about jobs in policy, development, etc). Some programs are desiged to help students obtain work experience/internships, others are not. This is an important thing to ask about.

3) European master's degrees can be a great experience (and a good price)

but they are not particualrly helpful for getting a US job. I reccomending anyone who wants a practitioner job to spend time in DC- at least a summer or semester internship, but ideally getting a job for a year-before doing the

degree so they have ties to the US job market

 

HEI (I assume this is the school in Geneva) is a great program--I was considering taking my master's degree there but ultimately a UK program was a better choice

 

If your son has some particular types of jobs he is interested in I could give focused advise (I've worked in intl affairs and will be teaching in the field starting in the fall)--I certaintly understand, however, that figuring out what is often the hardest part.

Edited June 8, 2011 by Samuel
can't spell and chew gum at the same time

[laughing lioness]

He might also look at the diplomatic corp and what they have to offer, especially as he's fluent in a 2nd language.