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Which progression?  

  1. 1. Which progression?

    • Choice 1
      18
    • Choice 2
      12
    • Other
      3


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I'm trying to look at the big picture... an overall view of math and science. I need to understand the sequence for both. If Algebra I and physical science (physics/chemistry) are taken in 8th grade, which of these routes would make the most sense? I am really trying to construct the most incremental and logical path.

 

Choice I: (physics/chem, biology followed by physics, chem, biology)

 

8th: Algebra I with physical science (physics/chemistry)

9th: Geometry with biology

10th: Alg. II/Trig with physics (algebra based at this point)

11th: Pre-cal with chemistry

12th: Cal with an advanced science: physics, chemistry, or biology

 

Choice 2: (physics/chem, followed by physics, chem, biology)

 

8th: Algebra I with physical science (physics/chemistry)

9th: Geometry with physics (algebra based at this point)

10th: Alg. II/Trig with chemistry

11th: Pre-cal with advanced biology

12th: Cal with an advanced science: physics, chemistry, or biology

 

I don't understand if geometry or Alg. II should come first. I can't predict at this point if we will get to pre-cal or cal. I read in another post that statistics can be a good option for upper level math.

 

This plan would be for a science minded student who will probably have a science major in college.

 

Please help me understand the most logical progression for these subjects. Please make ANY corrections for the above sequences.

 

Reality check: I am not a math/sciency mom. I have yet to figure out HOW we will manage to carry out such a schedule. If you can make specific text/class recommendations to realistically get this done, I would be so grateful. Thankfully dh's degree is is mechanical engineering, and he can help. 8th grade texts are chosen: Lial's Intro to Alg. I and CPO Foundations of physical science.

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I voted 2.

We do an algebra based physics as first high school science.

You might want to spend an afternoon teaching kid some simple trig (just SOHCAHTOA) to make it an algebra/trig based course.

 

I don't think alg 2 or geo first makes a big difference (we did ours concurrently).

 

Our plan is physics - chem- AP bio- calc based physics

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Has the student already taken Earth Science?

 

She had earth/space science in 6th grade (I think)....enough to know she really is not interested in it. I thought our time would be better spent with physical science (physics/chemistry).

 

I voted 2.

We do an algebra based physics as first high school science.

You might want to spend an afternoon teaching kid some simple trig (just SOHCAHTOA) to make it an algebra/trig based course.

 

I don't think alg 2 or geo first makes a big difference (we did ours concurrently).

 

Our plan is physics - chem- AP bio- calc based physics

 

Regentrude, I was hoping you would answer. What about being a non-science/math mom? I know Apologia is written to the student. I don't think we'll go that route unless as a last resort. (Our home school covering teaches Apologia through high school). After reading quite a bit about pros/cons about Apologia, I am more inclined to go secular at this point, but HOW? Do you have any suggestions?

 

Online options are expensive as are some DVD programs. (We used BJU's 7th grade Life Science with DVD and LOVED it.) This is not out of the question, yet I need to be budget conscious, of course.

 

That leaves self-teaching or working with the parent. This makes me nervous.

 

What did you use for Alg. II and geometry together?

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Regentrude, I was hoping you would answer. What about being a non-science/math mom? I know Apologia is written to the student. I don't think we'll go that route unless as a last resort. (Our home school covering teaches Apologia through high school). After reading quite a bit about pros/cons about Apologia, I am more inclined to go secular at this point, but HOW? Do you have any suggestions?

 

I found introductory college texts, for non majors, an excellent resource.

For physics, I have used College Physics by Knight, Jones and Fields. (For chemistry, we will use Chang general chem and for bio Campbell/Reece)

You mention that your DH is an engineer- maybe he can help?

 

There are free online options, open courseware and Khan academy, which can be used to clarify points - but I find the textbook very well written, and DD had a good understanding after reading the sections (to the point that she found attending the lectures boring when she had done the assigned reading.)

 

What did you use for Alg. II and geometry together?

Art of Problem Solving Intro to Geometry and Art of Problem Solving last chapters of Intro to Algebra/ beginning of Intermediate Algebra

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I found introductory college texts, for non majors, an excellent resource.

For physics, I have used College Physics by Knight, Jones and Fields. (For chemistry, we will use Chang general chem and for bio Campbell/Reece)

You mention that your DH is an engineer- maybe he can help?

 

There are free online options, open courseware and Khan academy, which can be used to clarify points - but I find the textbook very well written, and DD had a good understanding after reading the sections (to the point that she found attending the lectures boring when she had done the assigned reading.)

 

Art of Problem Solving Intro to Geometry and Art of Problem Solving last chapters of Intro to Algebra/ beginning of Intermediate Algebra

 

 

Yes, dh can help when he is not at work. That is a great encouragement. Practically speaking and generally speaking, is it realistic to expect to use introductory college texts, workbooks, and labs independently and truly UNDERSTAND the material? (It's nice to know that Khan Academy and the like can help.)

 

My oldest will be in high school in the 2012-2013 school year, and I'm trying to make realistic plans...... (I keep using that word- I can't just throw this all together at the last minute assuming it will work.) Your science experience shared on this board has been a hugh help as has the help of several others with science degrees.

 

 

 

Anyone else?

If you are a mom not especially strong in math and science, how have you "taught" high school math and science to your students who want to go into a science-related career?

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I think either of those paths would work. We've chosen what order to do things, in large part, by when we found various resources.

 

The sciences you do in the earlier grades will likely not be as rigorous as those you do in the later grades. Even if you use the same resources, the student will absorb and understand more as they get older. Or you might find that you can use more rigorous resources for those sciences that come later.

 

But I don't think it matters too much which path you choose. One of the sciences has to come first. It will be the one that will get "shorted" unless you do it again as an advanced class. But when you get to doing the advanced class, your student may choose not to redo that subject but go into more depth in one of the others. That will be ok.

 

Due to other priorities, my older daughter completely skipped physics until she took it as a college class. She's now a physics major. For her, the important thing was to do the math thoroughly. In high school, the math is key. A student with good math skills can pick up the science later, but even if a student has had the science in high school, college level science will be very difficult without the math. (That isn't to say that you shouldn't do science, but it shouldn't come at the expense of the math.)

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I think either of those paths would work. We've chosen what order to do things, in large part, by when we found various resources.

 

The sciences you do in the earlier grades will likely not be as rigorous as those you do in the later grades. Even if you use the same resources, the student will absorb and understand more as they get older. Or you might find that you can use more rigorous resources for those sciences that come later.

 

But I don't think it matters too much which path you choose. One of the sciences has to come first. It will be the one that will get "shorted" unless you do it again as an advanced class. But when you get to doing the advanced class, your student may choose not to redo that subject but go into more depth in one of the others. That will be ok.

 

Due to other priorities, my older daughter completely skipped physics until she took it as a college class. She's now a physics major. For her, the important thing was to do the math thoroughly. In high school, the math is key. A student with good math skills can pick up the science later, but even if a student has had the science in high school, college level science will be very difficult without the math. (That isn't to say that you shouldn't do science, but it shouldn't come at the expense of the math.)

 

 

Thank you for this. I've read similar comments.

 

Does the math sequence I've listed look ok? Does everyone agree that doing geometry or Alg. II first really doesn't matter?

 

Does it look like I have the correct prereqs for the science sequences I have listed?

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I found introductory college texts, for non majors, an excellent resource.

:iagree:

The high school texts that we tried were sometimes close to gibberish.

 

However, I would add that more recent editions of some college text books may be heading in this direction. Publishers have odd ideas about what makes a text book readable. My husband (who teaches college biology) is finding that some of the newer non majors texts are becoming not only less rigorous, but less understandable. I don't know if this is across the board. He's only looked at a few texts so far. (He's getting ready to teach a non majors course again, which he hasn't done in a number of years, and the texts he once relied on are now quite different. There are apparently some online groups of professors talking about this problem as well, so it's not just him.)

 

If you are going to go with a college text, you might want to not only get the text that is suggested by others but also the same *edition*. For one thing, an earlier edition will be cheaper, but it is also possible that you'll miss a major rewrite that took out all the things that were originally good.

 

If you get used text books, you can get earlier editions that are dirt cheap. So you could even get several to choose from and not break the bank:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0805366245/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used

This is the edition we used.

 

For the basic sciences, not all that much changes in a decade, so I wouldn't worry about getting the most current text.

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I voted 2.

We do an algebra based physics as first high school science.

You might want to spend an afternoon teaching kid some simple trig (just SOHCAHTOA) to make it an algebra/trig based course.

 

I don't think alg 2 or geo first makes a big difference (we did ours concurrently).

 

Our plan is physics - chem- AP bio- calc based physics

 

:iagree: with all of this. We are doing this as well.

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However, I would add that more recent editions of some college text books may be heading in this direction. Publishers have odd ideas about what makes a text book readable. My husband (who teaches college biology) is finding that some of the newer non majors texts are becoming not only less rigorous, but less understandable. I don't know if this is across the board. He's only looked at a few texts so far.

 

 

It seems to be a universal trend - lots of sidebars, colored boxes, very little actual consecutive text.

 

If you are going to go with a college text, you might want to not only get the text that is suggested by others but also the same *edition*. For one thing, an earlier edition will be cheaper, but it is also possible that you'll miss a major rewrite that took out all the things that were originally good.

For the basic sciences, not all that much changes in a decade, so I wouldn't worry about getting the most current text.

 

I second this recommendation. You can get a used text very cheap - and the changes between editions are largely cosmetic and a tool for publishers to make money.

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Practically speaking and generally speaking, is it realistic to expect to use introductory college texts, workbooks, and labs independently and truly UNDERSTAND the material? (It's nice to know that Khan Academy and the like can help.)

 

 

For physics, I would think it necessary to have somebody to talk about concepts to make SURE that the student understands. I would not consider it ideal to JUST self-study, because then there is nobody to check whether there are any misconceptions. It is possible to self study and emerge with a thorough understanding - but I would recommend using DH as a resource for discussions. This may not be necessary on a daily basis, but weekly discussions about concepts are very beneficial.

Even the students who attend my classes have misconceptions they are not aware of until we specifically address and discuss them.

 

I found that being able to solve practice problems is NOT a guarantee for conceptual understanding; sometimes students have mastered the procedure for certain classes of problems and can crank them out just fine, but don't really know what it is they are doing.

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For a possible STEM major, I definitely would pick #2. Dd's progression was similar (pre-med and paramedic).

 

8th - algebra 1/physical science

9th - algebra 2/biology and astronomy for a science elective

10th - geometry/chemistry

11th - trigonometry/advanced chemistry

12th - 1 semester of calculus (dh felt she was a little fuzzy on the last part of the trig book though her grades were fine - her recall of trig at the beginning of 12th was not what he wanted it to be, so he did some trig review and then only one half of the calc book but this has been no issue for her in pre-med and we are really glad she had the advanced chemistry.) and physics plus anatomy/physiology.

 

Dd graduated with six science credits and successfully AP'd chemistry though we did not sign her up for an ap chemistry course. But, she's a chemistry brain and self-studied from a variety of college texts in addition to her two apologia chemistry courses. I do not recommend attempting the AP chem test for most kids without going through an approved course.

 

Faith

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Thank you for this. I've read similar comments.

 

Does the math sequence I've listed look ok? Does everyone agree that doing geometry or Alg. II first really doesn't matter?

 

Does it look like I have the correct prereqs for the science sequences I have listed?

 

If you're using a math curriculum that puts the Alg 2 and geometry in a certain order, than I would follow their order. They probably will reference back to the last class for review. The books we used all put geometry first. When we got to Alg 2, I think I recall that the geometry was necessary. Actually, when I think about what gets covered in a standard Alg 2 class, I think geometry would have to be covered before getting to the conic sections. But maybe some programs do the conic sections in the pre-calc year(?).

 

The sciences don't really have science prerequisites. It is true that to do advanced biology you kind of need chem first, but for intro bio, it could go either way. If you do bio first, the parts that need chemistry will just get covered in a less rigorous way. However, it's certainly ok to do bio before chem.

 

I think bio tends to get done first because schools are waiting for the students to be a little more math savvy before getting into chemistry (the same would be true of physics). And I have found that waiting a bit on chemistry has helped my kids a lot with the conceptual understanding. They could do the memorizing earlier, but working problems was hard for them. When we gave up and came back after a year, things we suddenly much easier. But you could do a chem "lite" in the earlier years and just come back to it. The same is true of physics.

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"Practically speaking and generally speaking, is it realistic to expect to use introductory college texts, workbooks, and labs independently and truly UNDERSTAND the material? (It's nice to know that Khan Academy and the like can help.) "

 

I've had to walk my kids through some of the college text material. But none of us could understand the high school texts. (I have a PhD in biology and I couldn't figure out what some of the high school bio texts seemed to be trying to explain, even in areas where I really know my stuff. I find it, well, surprising, to put it mildly, that this junk is getting sold to schools.)

 

This year, we're trying Thinkwell. For the most part, the lectures are understandable, but my daughter has needed a lot of help with the problem sets. Some of the issue is that the problems are not in synch with the lectures, and some that there isn't a gradation of easy problems to hard so the student gets some practice with the basics before being thrown to the wolves.

 

We haven't tried Khan academy.

 

If you have no science/math background, you might find this a bit hard. I don't know how it would be for someone with little background to follow along with the materials and learn as the student learns.

 

But if you've got someone else in the house who can help out, you may be fine. Keep in mind that a lot of ps kids will end up needing help from their parents with these courses, even though they have a teacher at school.

 

And don't worry too much if you don't get through all the rigorous science you have mapped out. A lot of kids get to college with no college science credit and do just fine in rigorous science majors. In my daughter's particular case, she is thrilled that she had 5 credits of math/science before getting to college (and her language requirement fulfilled) because it's freed up enough time that she can do a double major while still within her scholarship. However, she would have been fine just starting in the freshman classes with everyone else.

 

Also, a solid base in science and math is of much more worth in college than quickly getting a lot of credits from AP. If you can do both the solid base AND the AP credits, that's nice, but it's not essential. (I say this because I'm not sure the AP tests are the best prep for further courses in the sequence. If your student is really bright and a hard worker, then AP might be a good choice. If they've missed anything, they'll just learn it later. But a student who needs more instruction might do great on the AP tests, and then get thrown in to drown with later courses. It really varies by student.)

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I voted other, but it's closer to option 2. My kids aren't there yet, but I was a math/science kid (high school honors track) and a math major in college, so I will just add my experience.

 

8th: Algebra 1 and Physical Science

9th: Algebra 2 and Trig (Dolciani text combines them) and Earth Science

10th: Advanced Geometry and Advanced Chemistry 1 (needed understanding of Alg 2 and Trig to do the problems)

11th: Pre-Calc, Advanced Bio 1 and Chem 2

12th AP Calculus, Advanced Physics 1 and Bio 2

 

I am planning to tackle the math part in the same order for my boys (I actually saved my textbooks), but I'm not decided how to approach the science part just yet. This progression worked well for me and I do have most of my text books, but I think I'd be lost without the teacher's manuals. I do have a few years to see what's available.

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Flyingiguana, I'd just like to say that you are "spot on" about many high school texts and I'd also like to add that some of the matching teacher manuals are useful only as fire starter!

 

We used a lot of college texts for dd and never had the issues with understanding that we had with the high school texts. I suspect, though I don't know enough to offer proof, that this may be because writers of college texts tend to be experts in their field and educators to boot, while high school texts are more likely to written by publishing companies through consultation of a board of editors some of whom may not have a clue and have never taught. I also suspect that colleges are far more discriminating concerning content and organization.

 

Faith

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We used a lot of college texts for dd and never had the issues with understanding that we had with the high school texts. I suspect, though I don't know enough to offer proof, that this may be because writers of college texts tend to be experts in their field and educators to boot, while high school texts are more likely to written by publishing companies through consultation of a board of editors some of whom may not have a clue and have never taught. I also suspect that colleges are far more discriminating concerning content and organization.

 

 

I would suspect a lot has to do with the adoption procedure.

In college, the text for a class is selected by the professor who himself is an expert in the field. A bad text will be recognized as such and not be chosen.

In high school, the texts are selected by school boards who do not possess the necessary expertise and can only go by recommendations.

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I would suspect a lot has to do with the adoption procedure.

In college, the text for a class is selected by the professor who himself is an expert in the field. A bad text will be recognized as such and not be chosen.

In high school, the texts are selected by school boards who do not possess the necessary expertise and can only go by recommendations.

 

You are so right! I know this is off-topic, but I do have to say that having attended three curriculum meetings at our local public high school just to see how they go about this task, I felt as though I had just witnessed some sort of middle school popularity contest instead of a curriculum committee meeting. I am not exaggerating! Here is a bit of the exchange:

 

"So, and so really likes it and I really like so and so. It must be good!"

 

"X school district bought it so it can't be that bad!" (Never mind that X school district saw a huge plummet in test scores and grades after purchasing and implementing the program.)

 

"Well, I can't even do any algebra, so I don't have an opinion about the math. But, I think we should get x program because it looks cool so the kids will like it."

 

"The superintendent wants us to purchase x because that publisher took him to a 4-star restaurant and offered him a trip to Hawaii if the school purchases enough product. We should do it because it will make the super happy and then if he has to eliminate teacher positions next year, we'll be his pets." (OH YES THIS WAS SAID OUTLOUD IN FRONT OF SEVERAL PARENTS IN ATTENDANCE!)

 

You are spot on!!!

 

Faith

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We did 8th = Alg1/physical sci.

9th = Geo/Bio

10th = Alg2/Chem

11th = Pre calc/AP Bio

12th = Calc BC/Physics B (alg/trig based)

 

I will agree that I've found the college texts to be the best as far as presenting info. and having worthwhile problem sets. Dd has only been homeschooled this year, Jr. year. For pre-calc we used Foerster with Khan videos for reinforcement and Campbell and Reese for Bio. The Bio was a lot of busy work. They are supposedly changing the course. I would have preferred a more synthetic/problem solving approach.

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You are so right! I know this is off-topic, but I do have to say that having attended three curriculum meetings at our local public high school just to see how they go about this task, I felt as though I had just witnessed some sort of middle school popularity contest instead of a curriculum committee meeting. I am not exaggerating! Here is a bit of the exchange:

 

"So, and so really likes it and I really like so and so. It must be good!"

 

"X school district bought it so it can't be that bad!" (Never mind that X school district saw a huge plummet in test scores and grades after purchasing and implementing the program.)

 

"Well, I can't even do any algebra, so I don't have an opinion about the math. But, I think we should get x program because it looks cool so the kids will like it."

 

"The superintendent wants us to purchase x because that publisher took him to a 4-star restaurant and offered him a trip to Hawaii if the school purchases enough product. We should do it because it will make the super happy and then if he has to eliminate teacher positions next year, we'll be his pets." (OH YES THIS WAS SAID OUTLOUD IN FRONT OF SEVERAL PARENTS IN ATTENDANCE!)

 

You are spot on!!!

 

Faith

 

Faith, this is amazing. I did not realize choosing a text could be as poorly done as this. I got in touch with the public and private schools in my area recently and they sent class/text book lists for classes from jr. high through high school.

 

My dh truly has always encouraged me to find a textbook.... a good 'ole textbook to teach from instead of "homeschool" curriculum.... especially as we are getting into 8th and looking toward high school. Your comments about using intro level college texts would get a big head nod from him.

 

Most (if not all) of the comments today have come from those with strong science backgrounds. My greatest fear is that I lack the background that is necessary to get us through the higher math/science courses. The very worst thing that could happen would be to choose a "bad" text thinking it was sufficient. (I only completed through Alg. II in high school and then an intro college chemistry class.)

 

For anyone just joining this thread or for those of you who have already commented, it would be wonderful to see the books that you use for these upper level math and science classes. A couple of you did this. Thank you!

 

Thank you all for all the comments made today!

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My high schoolers go to public school in Texas and this is the math and science sequence for those that completed Algebra I in 8th grade:

 

9th- Geometry/Biology

10th-Algebra II/ Chemistry

11th-Pre-Calculus/Physics

12th- Calculus/advanced science elective: AP Biology, Chemistry, or Physics or Human Anatomy

 

One of my daughters did not complete Algebra I in 8th grade. She took Geometry and Algebra II the same year so she could "catch up".

 

Susan in TX

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Thanks to all who contributed to this thread! I'm going to start a new one because I would like to ask for titles of specific college intro texts that have been used successfully to home-school high-school.

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Yes, dh can help when he is not at work. That is a great encouragement. Practically speaking and generally speaking, is it realistic to expect to use introductory college texts, workbooks, and labs independently and truly UNDERSTAND the material? (It's nice to know that Khan Academy and the like can help.)

 

My oldest did this sequence:

 

8th: Algebra 1/Earth Science

9th: Algebra 2 (Saxon) / Apologia Bio

10th: Advanced Math (2/3 of book)/Apologia Chem

11th: Chalkdust PreCalc/Giancoli Physics

12th: Chalkdust Calc/ CC General Chemistry

 

He's gone on to engineering school and has done well, but he's had to work hard at it. Looking back on his experience, I realized that he really would have benefited from a more conceptual physics course before getting to the Giancoli book. He also would have been better prepared with a program that had a more conceptual emphasis than Apologia Chem.

 

Knowing what I learned with him, his younger brother is doing this sequence:

 

Completed

7th: Algebra I/Rainbow Science

8th: Geometry/Conceptual Physics

9th: Algebra II/Spectrum Chem (maybe not super meaty according to some, but it has heavy conceptual emphasis and the 30 labs really keep interest high)

Planned

10th: PreCalc/PH Biology (toyed with the idea of AP Chem, but he's young for his grade, and his maturity to really crank through things is not fully developed yet)

11th: Calc/?? -- probably either Giancoli Physics or AP Chem

12th: possibly CC Calc or Stats /CC Chem or Calc-based Physics

 

This son has a strong interest in Physics as a possible college major, and I've decided that it's important for him to do rigorous math/science in high school -- but I really, really want to make sure he has a strong conceptual understanding before heading into the really math-intensive subjects.

 

I really think that your student would benefit from being able to discuss the materials with someone as regentrude said. I also feel that some students would be able to work independently and use college-level books, but that is not the norm, IMHO. At least in my experience, my quite bright high-schoolers have lacked the maturity to work completely independently, and they need materials at a comfortable level for them.

 

I'm not sure that any particular sequence is best. A lot would depend upon the interest of the student. Neither of my boys was that interested in Biology, so I never felt the need to tackle AP Bio.

 

I commend you for thinking ahead about the sequence your want your dc to follow. I hope you settle on something that is a good fit for family.

 

Brenda

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I really think that your student would benefit from being able to discuss the materials with someone as regentrude said. I also feel that some students would be able to work independently and use college-level books, but that is not the norm, IMHO. At least in my experience, my quite bright high-schoolers have lacked the maturity to work completely independently, and they need materials at a comfortable level for them.

 

 

 

Thank you, Brenda. This is where texts written *to* the student comes in handy. Apologia fills this need, but I'm not convinced that I want to use this. Science Shepherd is also written *to* the student. I like this biology, but I'm not ready to settle for it either.

 

Thinkwell, Khan Academy, Hippocampus all could supplement a text, I think. There are also on-line classes.... so expensive, but relieve the teaching responsibility from the mom.

 

I'm considering Miller Levine with the Kolbe syllabus for 9th grade biology if we end up doing a biology in 9th. I'm not sure about the rest. Spectrum Chemistry has mostly good reviews. I'm interested in that. 8 Fills the Heart speaks of adding PH Chemistry to it.

 

The upper level math/science just feels very foreign to me. It has been relatively easy to decide on elementary and middle school curriculua. With so much at stake, these high school math/science course choices are critical and are the hardest (if not the most impossible) for me to teach.

 

Dh can discuss topics with our kids, but since he works and is away during school, it just seems like I need to find something that is planned out- so that dh can discuss when needed but isn't a required part of a class.

 

I know there must be other non-science/math oriented moms who have to

make these decisions. I'm reading and researching to learn more about what others have used and HOW they have taught these classes.

 

Just a few thoughts after reading your response... thanks very much.

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What I would suggest is:

 

8th: Algebra I and physical science

9th: Geometry and chemistry

10th: Algebra II/Trig and biology

11th: Precalculus and algebra-based physics (AP Physics B fits nicely here)

12th: Calculus and advanced science class

 

What my science-y middle dd did/is doing is your plan 1.

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What I would suggest is:

 

8th: Algebra I and physical science

9th: Geometry and chemistry

10th: Algebra II/Trig and biology

11th: Precalculus and algebra-based physics (AP Physics B fits nicely here)

12th: Calculus and advanced science class

 

What my science-y middle dd did/is doing is your plan 1.

 

Thank you, Angie. From what I've read, there is a logical order of information taught when a student studies physics, chemistry, and then biology. The potential problem is that math skills might not be as fully developed as they should be.

 

Do you lose any of those building blocks in tho physics, chem, bio order when you move physics from the beginning to the end?

 

Would you put text titles to the classes.... what text books do you use?

 

Thanks so much!

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I would do Earth Science at the high school level freshman year. I didn't have that opportunity due to switching schools and found that most of the geology, weather, and environmental units would have been handy to know before taking chem.

 

Physical Science as a freshman is too easy; I'd just skip it and allow a little more time in physics for any concept that wasn't mastered at the Phys. Science level.

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Most (if not all) of the comments today have come from those with strong science backgrounds. My greatest fear is that I lack the background that is necessary to get us through the higher math/science courses. The very worst thing that could happen would be to choose a "bad" text thinking it was sufficient. (I only completed through Alg. II in high school and then an intro college chemistry class.)

 

For anyone just joining this thread or for those of you who have already commented, it would be wonderful to see the books that you use for these upper level math and science classes. A couple of you did this. Thank you!

 

Thank you all for all the comments made today!

 

I've seen more bad science books than bad math books. I actually haven't seen any math books that I really couldn't use (but I obviously haven't looked at all the ones out there). If you aren't strong in math yourself, I'd suggest getting a book that not only has answers, but a solutions manual. (This makes the teacher's life a lot easier even if they are very good at math -- I did get tired of having to demonstrate every single problem...) I suspect math may be less text dependent (they just show the proof or the example problem) than, say, biology, so it makes it a little harder to screw up.

 

For calculus, we ended up using a book that many people hate (Finney Watts and Demana, which was something like a graphical, numerical approach to calculus. I can't remember the exact title, which is a problem, because these same authors have put out a number of books that aren't all the same). It has very few proofs and has trimmed the material down to only what will be on the AP exam. I think that bothered people who would have preferred a more complete treatment. However, that was the book I found that had a solutions manual, so that's what we used. My daughter did fine on the AP test having used that and has gone on to get straight A's in her further math courses at college, so it seemed to be sufficient. I'm not suggesting you use that book, only that choosing a book that some other people hate is not a sentence of doom.

 

My recollection about science books is that the ones listed on the AP website for each test were some of the more accepted and mainstream books. They were fairly good, at least the editions that were given then. I'd go with something there, if you can't get recommendations for anything else.

 

We used Campbell and Reese for biology, and Zumdahl for chemistry. But both of these are fairly massive tomes and you'd probably need to trim them way down for a high school course (in fact, college classes don't usually do every chapter -- they might not even do half the chapters, depending on the course). I've taught from Starr and Taggart. It was ok (back when I was teaching, which was more than a decade ago). My husband has taught from Campbell and Reese and a set of books by Ricki Lewis. I think he was happy with both of them, but the Lewis book was at least 10 years ago. I think it's been "updated" and the word I got was that even Ricki Lewis wasn't ALL that happy with the revisions (but this is a rumor that has been through many mouths before it got to me, so take it with a grain of salt).

 

For physics, although I haven't yet taught an entire class to my kids (I only tutored my older daughter), we found Serway to be fairly clear when we went to look up explanations. We also used one by Benson which wasn't too bad. These are both college texts. We tried a 3rd edition of Hewitt's Conceptual Physics (with my younger daughter). The pictures and diagrams of that one were ok, but the text confused us. It may be that a newer version of Hewitt would be improved. Hewitt was particularly frustrating because there were no answers to the problems (but again, that might be different in later versions).

 

For physics, I'd also be sure to get answers and a solutions manual. This would also be useful for chemistry. That's the reason we used Zumdahl -- I had access to a solutions manual. (So once again, I'm not necessarily recommending that book in particular)

 

But the science texts I've mentioned are all college level texts. If you're going to do most of the texts then that would be an advanced course. For lower level courses, I've sometimes used these same texts, but just done very few of the chapters. This worked ok for chemistry (I think we only did maybe 5-7 chapters of Zumdahl). But for chemistry, a thorough understanding of the basics is perhaps what one wants out of a high school course. For biology, you might want something that's more of an overview, so this approach might not be as good.

 

If you have more to spend on texts than we have (I've gotten most of ours from rummage sales and by begging them off professors -- which is why we have what we have. It wasn't a thought out process.), you might find it better to spend your money getting several slightly older editions than one newer edition. You'll then have several to choose from, and can always use the others for further explanation if your main one is a bit confused on a point. If you get editions that are 10 years old, you might be able to pick them up for a penny (plus shipping) at Amazon or Alibris or some such place.

 

And get solutions manuals if you can. "Complete" is better than "to selected problems".

 

Has anyone mentioned the lectures online that places like MIT, Yale, and Berkeley offer? They're free. They do vary a bit in quality, but there are some that people really like.

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BTW - I'm not really sure that physics is of much help when learning biology. Chemistry, yes, but physics not so much. Physics is the sort of subject that a well rounded biologist should know something about eventually, but it's not really essential for learning basic biology.

 

And chemistry is probably really only helpful when going to do a more advanced course (AP or college level for majors). For intro bio at the high school level, you kind of learn whatever chemistry is needed as you go. This is also true of the nonmajors college level. So I wouldn't worry about which order you do them in until, or if, you do advanced bio.

 

And, to be honest, I suspect Thinkwell could replace most of the text reading -- it's just their quizzes and problem sets that aren't so strong. So you'd need to have a text to do problems. I haven't looked at Khan Academy much -- it's possible that might also replace a text. (We're doing Thinkwell calculus lectures, but doing the exercises in the Finney etal book I mentioned before. This seems to work just fine. I do have to answer some questions, but it hasn't been too time consuming, so that might be a system that would work with your husband.)

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And, to be honest, I suspect Thinkwell could replace most of the text reading -- it's just their quizzes and problem sets that aren't so strong. So you'd need to have a text to do problems. I haven't looked at Khan Academy much -- it's possible that might also replace a text.

 

On the subject of textbooks: being able to read a textbook, to extract important information and to take notes on the reading is a skill many incoming college students are lacking. Regardless of what primary resource you decide to use, it would be a good thing for highschool students to learn - it will help them a lot once they get to college. As will taking notes from a lecture.

One thing the underperforming students in my classes typically all have in common is failure to complete the assigned reading. Doing the reading assignment in an effective manner (i.e. not just skimming, but extracting the information) is the first measure they need to take to succeed.

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Algebra I and Algebra II - Kinetic Books

Geometry - would use KB if they had it ready, otherwise I like Jacobs Geometry, 3rd edition

Precalculus and higher - would use KB if they had it, but they don't, so I'm using Lial's

 

Biology - Holt worked well. I used the Oak Meadow syllabus. I recommend getting a lab kit from LabPaqs or somewhere other than OM because their labs were pathetic.

 

Chemistry - Tro's Introductory Chemistry. This is used for honor high school chemistry or as an introductory course for nonscience majors in college. I'm planning to use a kit from LabPaqs.

 

Physics - Giancoli's Physics, 6th edition. This was an excellent book, but you need a teacher who knows the subject. My degree is in physics, so it wasn't a problem for me. This isn't a book you can hand to students and then expect them to work through on their own. I used LabPaqs for labs.

 

Algebra I by itself isn't quite enough to work through Giancoli's. You need to at least be working on Algebra II at the same time as Giancoli's (although precalculus is better as a concurrent course). My dd and the other student I had were both taking Algebra II concurrently. We got to several topics in Giancoli's before they got to them in their Algebra II programs, so I had to teach those concepts first. It wasn't a big deal.

 

I did physics before chemistry because I had already found a great textbook for physics, but I hadn't found a great chemistry textbook. My dd had the math to be able to handle it, so I went ahead and had her do it. I recommend chemistry before biology because all the biology textbooks start off pretty hot and heavy with biochemistry which needs a solid chemistry background (stronger than in your typical middle school level physical science program). CPO Integrated Physics and Chemistry is high school level. That would have been a great introduction to both chemistry and physics for my dd, but I didn't find that text until a few weeks ago.

 

Another sequence I can see as quite nice is this:

CPO Integrated Physics and Chemistry in 8th or 9th

Holt Biology in 9th or 10th

Tro's Introductory Chemistry in 10th or 11th

Giancoli's Physics in 11th or 12th

advanced science in 12th

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I voted for option #2. It is actually the sequence used at the private school my younger dd will be attending next year for 9th grade.

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If you aren't strong in math yourself, I'd suggest getting a book that not only has answers, but a solutions manual. (This makes the teacher's life a lot easier even if they are very good at math -- I did get tired of having to demonstrate every single problem...)YES! We enjoyed using Lial's BCM in 7th grade, and the solutions manual several times during the year. I suspect math may be less text dependent (they just show the proof or the example problem) than, say, biology, so it makes it a little harder to screw up.

 

For calculus, we ended up using a book that many people hate (Finney Watts and Demana, which was something like a graphical, numerical approach to calculus. Thank you for the information about calculus. That seems so far away, but I am definitely trying to look way ahead.

 

My recollection about science books is that the ones listed on the AP website for each test were some of the more accepted and mainstream books. They were fairly good, at least the editions that were given then. I'd go with something there, if you can't get recommendations for anything else. I have not thought to look at these texts... See, this should be common sense, but It didn't occur to me that these could be the same as some that I've heard about here on this board.

 

We used Campbell and Reese for biology, and Zumdahl for chemistry. But both of these are fairly massive tomes and you'd probably need to trim them way down for a high school course (in fact, college classes don't usually do every chapter -- they might not even do half the chapters, depending on the course). I've taught from Starr and Taggart. It was ok (back when I was teaching, which was more than a decade ago). My husband has taught from Campbell and Reese and a set of books by Ricki Lewis. I think he was happy with both of them, but the Lewis book was at least 10 years ago. I think it's been "updated" and the word I got was that even Ricki Lewis wasn't ALL that happy with the revisions (but this is a rumor that has been through many mouths before it got to me, so take it with a grain of salt). You have hit on one of my major stumbling blocks here. I can imagine researching, choosing, and buying a text.... Campbell and Reese or Zumdahl for example. Once it arrives at my house, however, and I have it in my hands, I have NO idea what to do with it. How do I schedule it? How do I plan labs? How do I implement it? Since many of these books are intro college texts, it's not like a homeschool curriculum company wrote lessons plans to go with it, you know. I become totally responsible. That is where I get bogged down.

 

For physics, although I haven't yet taught an entire class to my kids (I only tutored my older daughter), we found Serway to be fairly clear when we went to look up explanations. We also used one by Benson which wasn't too bad. These are both college texts. We tried a 3rd edition of Hewitt's Conceptual Physics (with my younger daughter). The pictures and diagrams of that one were ok, but the text confused us. It may be that a newer version of Hewitt would be improved. Hewitt was particularly frustrating because there were no answers to the problems (but again, that might be different in later versions). I've read posts that commented conceptual based physics can be confusing because it lacks the math. Somehow the math, that so many try to avoid, is necessary to demonstrate the physics concepts.

 

Has anyone mentioned the lectures online that places like MIT, Yale, and Berkeley offer? They're free. They do vary a bit in quality, but there are some that people really like. I have read about these, but I do not have a link. I have not seen any information about these lectures. These would definitely be worth looking up.[/QUOTE]

 

BTW - I'm not really sure that physics is of much help when learning biology. Chemistry, yes, but physics not so much. Physics is the sort of subject that a well rounded biologist should know something about eventually, but it's not really essential for learning basic biology.

 

And chemistry is probably really only helpful when going to do a more advanced course (AP or college level for majors). For intro bio at the high school level, you kind of learn whatever chemistry is needed as you go. This is also true of the nonmajors college level. So I wouldn't worry about which order you do them in until, or if, you do advanced bio. Thank you for this perspective. I'm beginning to think chemistry is the hardest among physics, chemistry, and biology. From what I've read on the board, chemistry could be the primary weed out class in college. With a foundational physics base, I wonder if a student could then move on to a basic chemistry followed by an advanced chemistry. Biology would be a good 9th grade course that follows a strong physical science.

 

And, to be honest, I suspect Thinkwell could replace most of the text reading -- it's just their quizzes and problem sets that aren't so strong. So you'd need to have a text to do problems. I haven't looked at Khan Academy much -- it's possible that might also replace a text. (We're doing Thinkwell calculus lectures, but doing the exercises in the Finney etal book I mentioned before. This seems to work just fine. I do have to answer some questions, but it hasn't been too time consuming, so that might be a system that would work with your husband.)

Again, if I spent money on something like Thinkwell only to find out that it wasn't an appropriate supplement, that would be frustrating. These kinds of unknowns make choosing high school texts a bit scary.

 

 

On the subject of textbooks: being able to read a textbook, to extract important information and to take notes on the reading is a skill many incoming college students are lacking. Regardless of what primary resource you decide to use, it would be a good thing for highschool students to learn - it will help them a lot once they get to college. As will taking notes from a lecture.

One thing the underperforming students in my classes typically all have in common is failure to complete the assigned reading. Doing the reading assignment in an effective manner (i.e. not just skimming, but extracting the information) is the first measure they need to take to succeed.

Regentrude, this is definitely something we worked on this year in 7th grade and will continue to work on. We practiced outlining the text and writing from the outlines. We also discussed the text to help make the information stick.

 

Algebra I and Algebra II - Kinetic Books

Geometry - would use KB if they had it ready, otherwise I like Jacobs Geometry, 3rd edition

Precalculus and higher - would use KB if they had it, but they don't, so I'm using Lial's We used Lial's BCM this year, and dd loved the book. We are planning to stick with Lial's unless we run into problems... How funny. What a pun!

 

Biology - Holt worked well. I used the Oak Meadow syllabus. I recommend getting a lab kit from LabPaqs or somewhere other than OM because their labs were pathetic. I think I've narrowed my biology choices down to Science Shepherd or Miller-Levine with Kolbe lesson plans. I know you don't like ML. With either of these, I will have lesson plans. I won't be on my own. This is one major reason I like these choices.

 

 

Chemistry - Tro's Introductory Chemistry. This is used for honor high school chemistry or as an introductory course for nonscience majors in college. I'm planning to use a kit from LabPaqs. Would this be a good text to use after an intro chemistry class like Spectrum? Or would you do this in place of Spectrum and follow it with something like Zumdahl?

 

 

Physics - Giancoli's Physics, 6th edition. This was an excellent book, but you need a teacher who knows the subject. My degree is in physics, so it wasn't a problem for me. This isn't a book you can hand to students and then expect them to work through on their own. I used LabPaqs for labs. I recently discovered that my dh's college physics book is by Giancoli.

 

CPO Integrated Physics and Chemistry is high school level. That would have been a great introduction to both chemistry and physics for my dd, but I didn't find that text until a few weeks ago. Is this the Foundations of Physical Science text??? This is what we are doing for 8th grade.

 

Another sequence I can see as quite nice is this:

CPO Integrated Physics and Chemistry in 8th or 9th

Holt Biology in 9th or 10th

Tro's Introductory Chemistry in 10th or 11th

Giancoli's Physics in 11th or 12th

advanced science in 12th

 

 

 

 

Thanks very much everyone. This has been such a very helpful thread. I truly appreciate your time and wonderful answers. Thank you for helping me!

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We tried a 3rd edition of Hewitt's Conceptual Physics (with my younger daughter). The pictures and diagrams of that one were ok, but the text confused us. It may be that a newer version of Hewitt would be improved. Hewitt was particularly frustrating because there were no answers to the problems (but again, that might be different in later versions). I've read posts that commented conceptual based physics can be confusing because it lacks the math. Somehow the math, that so many try to avoid, is necessary to demonstrate the physics concepts.

 

 

 

I used Hewitt's 3rd edition of Conceptual Physics with my son in 8th grade last year. We both really loved it! It was his favorite course of that year. I did buy the teacher's manual, so I did have the answers. I did not find any problem understanding the concepts without a lot of math. I've also read the comment you mentioned, but I tend to think the opposite. I definitely saw with my older son (who used Giancoli w/o a conceptual course first), that he would focus in on the math and say "how do I do the problems?" instead of "physically -- what is going on in this situation?" When all was said and done, he had memorized the way to solve the example problems without really understanding the concepts behind them. That's why he had to work so hard in his college physics courses.

 

JM2Cents,

Brenda

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You have hit on one of my major stumbling blocks here. I can imagine researching, choosing, and buying a text.... Campbell and Reese or Zumdahl for example. Once it arrives at my house, however, and I have it in my hands, I have NO idea what to do with it. How do I schedule it? How do I plan labs? How do I implement it? Since many of these books are intro college texts, it's not like a homeschool curriculum company wrote lessons plans to go with it, you know. I become totally responsible. That is where I get bogged down.

 

 

One way to get help for your scheduling is to google the book title and "syllabus" - this will turn up numerous web pages of college instructors who use the text you have selected and who have developed a syllabus for it.

 

If I use a textbook, I do not need a "lesson plan" - the information is in the book, we begin the book at the beginning and work through the book. Often, there are links to websites given in the book that illustrate important things, or have simulations, or videos. If you are lucky, you can buy an older version of a standard text WITH the student CDrom - we were lucky with Campbell and have the CD with quizzes and extra activities. Many publishers have websites for their books, some of which have free information to go with the text (although some of the content is always for registered users only)

I usually look through the book to see if we need to cover everything and may cut certain chapters, because I believe that it is more important to thoroughly understand the important information than to cover every last section of the book - all college courses operate this way. If you feel unsure what to select, look at a few syllabi and see where there is consensus.

 

If I have decided what needs to be covered, I draw a up a lose schedule to make sure we roughly stay on track , by dividing the chapters we intend to cover among the weeks of the school year. Longer chapters (or, if you have the expertise to judge) more complicated concepts get a bit more time. Again, refer to posted syllabi for guidance.

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One way to get help for your scheduling is to google the book title and "syllabus" - this will turn up numerous web pages of college instructors who use the text you have selected and who have developed a syllabus for it.

 

If I use a textbook, I do not need a "lesson plan" - the information is in the book, we begin the book at the beginning and work through the book. Often, there are links to websites given in the book that illustrate important things, or have simulations, or videos. If you are lucky, you can buy an older version of a standard text WITH the student CDrom - we were lucky with Campbell and have the CD with quizzes and extra activities. Many publishers have websites for their books, some of which have free information to go with the text (although some of the content is always for registered users only)

I usually look through the book to see if we need to cover everything and may cut certain chapters, because I believe that it is more important to thoroughly understand the important information than to cover every last section of the book - all college courses operate this way. If you feel unsure what to select, look at a few syllabi and see where there is consensus.

 

If I have decided what needs to be covered, I draw a up a lose schedule to make sure we roughly stay on track , by dividing the chapters we intend to cover among the weeks of the school year. Longer chapters (or, if you have the expertise to judge) more complicated concepts get a bit more time. Again, refer to posted syllabi for guidance.

 

 

Thank you so much for this. I am beginning to understand. I am so very relieved to be able to ask questions on this board.

 

Maybe we'll be able to find courses locally, find a tutor, or use on-line classes for these upper math and science classes. That would take the pressure off of trying to find a text and teaching the course myself. It would take the pressure off of me, and it would better ensure a more complete education.

 

It is very good, however, to know a process to find a textbook and plan a class if it comes down to that.

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Can I get feedback on this:

 

8th: Algebra I with CPO Foundations of Physical Science

9th: Geometry with biology

10th: Algebra II/Trig with physics

11th: Pre-cal with Chemistry

12th: Cal with Advanced chemistry

 

I'm trying this on based on science threads I've recently read. Of all the sciences in college, it sounds like chemistry is the class that is most likely to make or break a science major. It sounds like the weed out class. A student is likely to make it through freshman chemistry but organic chemistry is known to be a beast.

 

If I had to rank order the sciences, it seems like biology would come first in 9th grade. I *think* (correct me if I am wrong) biology is the class I can afford to do in 9th and give the "least" attention to.

 

Algebra based physics done in 10th with Alg II/Trig prepares the way for two years of chemistry in 11th and 12th. (The student is a bit more mature in 10th for physics that would be in 9th.) The advanced chemistry would hopefully prepare for organic chemistry.

 

Please tell me if this makes sense. Any flaws? I don't know if this works with preparing for the ACT/SAT or not.

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This is the integrated physics and chemistry book I'm talking about:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1588920003

 

But I think you'd need to have already finished Algebra I to be able to get through it.

 

Tro's Introductory Chemistry is definitely a LOT deeper than Spectrum Chemistry. My oldest dd did Spectrum Chemistry in 10th grade and then took an Introductory Chemistry course at the cc that was the same level as Tro's in 12th grade. My middle dd will be taking Tro's Introductory Chemistry as her first chemistry course. I expect that she'll take a chemistry for majors course in 12th grade.

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I think you will see your child develop and may have a liking in one area.....you can have your texts pre-chosen and the years you think you should do them, but be ready to adapt.

 

My children do not like physics....it can be harder to understand though I know many who do it early, we are saving this until 12th. She unexpectedly loved Biology in 9th and that set the course for us. She did it online and wanted Anatomy and Physiology after Biology, however they would not let her do A & P without Chemistry.

 

So the course became set mid-way through freshman year.

 

Biology and Algebra I

Chemistry and Geometry

A & P and Algebra II

Physics and ....not sure more Adv math or perhaps Consumer math.

 

Also to keep in mind as you head through is SAT II tests. These really need to be done after junior year at the latest. She will do the SAT II Biology after junior year so you might find doing the advanced science best that year, doing an SAT II after senior year is to late for college applications. :tongue_smilie:

 

Kathy

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I think you will see your child develop and may have a liking in one area.....you can have your texts pre-chosen and the years you think you should do them, but be ready to adapt.

 

My children do not like physics....it can be harder to understand though I know many who do it early, we are saving this until 12th. She unexpectedly loved Biology in 9th and that set the course for us. She did it online and wanted Anatomy and Physiology after Biology, however they would not let her do A & P without Chemistry.

 

So the course became set mid-way through freshman year.

 

Biology and Algebra I

Chemistry and Geometry

A & P and Algebra II

Physics and ....not sure more Adv math or perhaps Consumer math.

 

Also to keep in mind as you head through is SAT II tests. These really need to be done after junior year at the latest. She will do the SAT II Biology after junior year so you might find doing the advanced science best that year, doing an SAT II after senior year is to late for college applications. :tongue_smilie:

 

Kathy

 

Kathy, the more I read and study posts on the board, I realize that I can make a plan, but it will have to be flexible. A clear plan will certainly begin to take shape as dd discovers where her strengths and talents are.

 

My concern has been MY ability to choose appropriate courses for her. I've been quite lost in the practical choosing and implementation of high school math and science courses because these are not my strengths.

 

The more specific examples I can read about how to DO these upper level courses the better. My desire is to have a pre-written plan with a clearly planned out lab either included or one I could easily add to the science.

 

Unfortunately, this isn't always how high school classes come. It requires the parent to put it all together.

 

Thanks for mentioning the SATII tests. This is an entirely different subject that I've read about just a little bit. Seems like they are good to take to verify what a student knows. I'm not sure what percentage of homeschoolers might take these tests. I would also think it safe to say that they give a student more experience with the content and experience studying for tests.

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I understand what you are saying and you are doing a wonderful job researching so you will no doubt be off to a good start, even if it may not feel that way. :)

 

When I was first researching high school I did not know what an SAT II subject test was, had never heard of it. Someone reccomended going on the college boards and we learned a lot. It turned out that the colleges my dd was most interested in (including a state university) required 2 SAT II subject tests.

 

I was shocked and as time went on and we did some college prep night classes (for parents) and talked with others and realized this needed to be done by end of junior year to matter, so I think it may be something you want to consider if your dc is college bound, you may want to go to the boards and do some research as it may influence your course schedule.

 

HTH,

Kathy

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My desire is to have a pre-written plan with a clearly planned out lab either included or one I could easily add to the science.

 

Unfortunately, this isn't always how high school classes come. It requires the parent to put it all together.

 

Thanks for mentioning the SATII tests. This is an entirely different subject that I've read about just a little bit. Seems like they are good to take to verify what a student knows. I'm not sure what percentage of homeschoolers might take these tests. I would also think it safe to say that they give a student more experience with the content and experience studying for tests.

 

A few thoughts......it is not as hard to put together a course as you probably think. I created an A&P course for my 11th grader this yr and she loved and learned as much as if she had taken someone else's pre-fab one.

 

Also, here's my perspective from our experience with the SAT2s. Even though SAT2s are supposed to measure high school level mastery vs. APs measuring college level mastery, since the majority of students who take the SAT2s are applying to more selective universities (those tend to be the ones that require them), they are sort of a self-selective group. It seems most students take the 2s after taking the AP equivalent course. This makes the scores more favorable for those with advanced level courses.

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Can I get feedback on this:

 

8th: Algebra I with CPO Foundations of Physical Science

9th: Geometry with biology

10th: Algebra II/Trig with physics

11th: Pre-cal with Chemistry

12th: Cal with Advanced chemistry

 

I'm trying this on based on science threads I've recently read. Of all the sciences in college, it sounds like chemistry is the class that is most likely to make or break a science major. It sounds like the weed out class. A student is likely to make it through freshman chemistry but organic chemistry is known to be a beast.

 

If I had to rank order the sciences, it seems like biology would come first in 9th grade. I *think* (correct me if I am wrong) biology is the class I can afford to do in 9th and give the "least" attention to.

 

Algebra based physics done in 10th with Alg II/Trig prepares the way for two years of chemistry in 11th and 12th. (The student is a bit more mature in 10th for physics that would be in 9th.) The advanced chemistry would hopefully prepare for organic chemistry.

 

Please tell me if this makes sense. Any flaws? I don't know if this works with preparing for the ACT/SAT or not.

 

The ACT/SAT do not test science, so you do not need to be concerned there.

 

I'm not sure that I completely agree with you assessment that chemistry is *the* weeder course (the same could be said of certain biology and physics courses as well as cal courses.) I personally wouldn't make my decisions on my high school cycle based on that premise.

 

Your schedule looks just fine, though.

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I understand what you are saying and you are doing a wonderful job researching so you will no doubt be off to a good start, even if it may not feel that way. :)

 

When I was first researching high school I did not know what an SAT II subject test was, had never heard of it. Someone reccomended going on the college boards and we learned a lot. It turned out that the colleges my dd was most interested in (including a state university) required 2 SAT II subject tests.

 

I was shocked and as time went on and we did some college prep night classes (for parents) and talked with others and realized this needed to be done by end of junior year to matter, so I think it may be something you want to consider if your dc is college bound, you may want to go to the boards and do some research as it may influence your course schedule.

 

HTH,

Kathy

 

Thank you, Kathy. I've spent a lot of time on the high school board. I will start reading from the college board as well.

 

A few thoughts......it is not as hard to put together a course as you probably think. I created an A&P course for my 11th grader this yr and she loved and learned as much as if she had taken someone else's pre-fab one.

 

I am truly amazed to consider how anyone can organize a high school course. That sounds so overwhelming to me. At the same time, it is very encouraging to know that it really can be done.

 

Regentrude explained how she googles a title to find a syllabus and then decides how much of a text she can use based on the number of days in her school year. Using that syllabus would be a key part of organizing a college intro text.

 

Could you describe how you put your A&P course together? I explained somewhere today :tongue_smilie: that I can picture ordering a intro college text and receiving it in the mail but then asking myself, " Now what? What do I do with this?" If you have a strength in A&P, that would make the job a little bit easier. If you don't have enough experience, there is this feeling of... "Oh no, what do I do now?" :eek: I'm sure I'm over-dramatizing this. Please forgive me. I am getting more comfortable with all this the more I read and ponder.

 

 

 

The ACT/SAT do not test science, so you do not need to be concerned there. Thank you for this.

 

I'm not sure that I completely agree with you assessment that chemistry is *the* weeder course (the same could be said of certain biology and physics courses as well as cal courses.) I personally wouldn't make my decisions on my high school cycle based on that premise.

 

You should see the list of possible math/science sequences I have made from reading so many posts on this topic. I think an argument could be made for any one of them. I am beginning to see that as we enter 8th grade, my dd will find her strengths and talents as she matures. I can make any schedule I want right now, but that schedule is bound to change along the way.

 

I definitely want to target possible texts as we approach these upper math/science courses. If I have a short list to choose from, I'll feel a lot more secure.

 

Your schedule looks just fine, though.

 

I am so grateful for the help of everyone who has contributed to this post! Your help has been very encouraging!

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Could you describe how you put your A&P course together? I explained somewhere today that I can picture ordering a intro college text and receiving it in the mail but then asking myself, " Now what? What do I do with this?" If you have a strength in A&P, that would make the job a little bit easier. If you don't have enough experience, there is this feeling of... "Oh no, what do I do now?" I'm sure I'm over-dramatizing this. Please forgive me. I am getting more comfortable with all this the more I read and ponder.

 

I personally do not have a strength in A&P. (I have also put together astronomy and physics courses and I don't have a strength in those either. I do rely on opencourseware, Teaching Co lectures, etc)

 

Here is the A&P course I put together. She finished the book, so I didn't worry about what to finish and not to finish :D

 

She used this anatomy book

http://www.amazon.com/Essentials-Anatomy-Physiology-Valerie-Scanlon/dp/0803610076/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1307620530&sr=8-4

 

along with this student workbook which includes tests (this really complements the text)

http://www.amazon.com/Student-Workbook-Essentials-Anatomy-Physiology/dp/0803610084/ref=pd_sim_b_1

 

and this coloring book

http://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Coloring-Book-Wynn-Kapit/dp/0805350861/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1307620617&sr=1-1

 

as well as these lectures (which you might be able to get through your library)

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=160

 

She has also done several dissections including a brain, heart, eye, and kidney (it is called the Mammal Dissection Kit available through Home Science Tools) as well as a fetal pig.

 

HTH

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