Cheryl in NM Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Well that's a morally superior statement. Gobsmackingly insulting. Sorry, just don't see it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindergretta Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 :confused: My husband goes to work. His paycheck goes into the bank. I go to the store. Sometimes I buy junk food. I buy it with his wages, not a broken government system. Exactly who am I insulting? Maybe it's insulting to me that some people (I'm not pointing fingers at anyone on this website!) feel entitled to soda with FS money. Because you have to keep going back to the same old song and dance - FS recipients are using *my* money. *I* am using *my* money. I should have a say in what they buy as well as what I buy. That is why it is so insulting. And for the record (and 100th time) WE receive FS and we pay federal taxes. So, I am using MY money, too!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 :confused: My husband goes to work. His paycheck goes into the bank. I go to the store. Sometimes I buy junk food. I buy it with his wages, not a broken government system. Exactly who am I insulting? Maybe it's insulting to me that some people (I'm not pointing fingers at anyone on this website!) feel entitled to soda with FS money. How is it not including those of us on this Website? If you dislike FS providing soda, that does also include FS boardies. Logically speaking. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Well that's a morally superior statement. Gobsmackingly insulting. People should use "gobsmacked" more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 (edited) Just for clarification... My post number 751 was in response to Sis's post 749 which I quoted. The "you say "can" not" part was in direct response to Sis's quoted post #749. People have refused to believe me at my word throughout this whole thread. I've been called a liar and stupid (post deleted). All of this because my opinion and life experience is not popular or appreciated. I do not live in an urban area like you, I live in a rural area. Things are different here and I've posted from my experience and made that clear all throughout this thread. You came in after 3 days of posting. Have you read them all? Have you followed all the links? I just could not let the hypocrisy pass. I was called insulting for my idea of setting up a new system and teaching people how to use that system. "someone else" said that poor people can't get jobs because they are uneducated and can't speak properly. That is hypocrisy IMO. I have a reputation on this board of noting and apologizing when I am wrong. I have a good reputation on this board, even if many do not agree with what I say. If you do not live in an urban area why are you telling the people that do that they are wrong?? Schools here score a 1 on the great american schools website. There are some are not accredited. Do you not think that has an effect?? Would you send your child to a school that scored a 1?? Why not?? Edited June 5, 2011 by Sis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Oh, I am getting the emails, for anyone who has to go to bed (like me, very soon!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 (edited) :confused: My husband goes to work. His paycheck goes into the bank. I go to the store. Sometimes I buy junk food. I buy it with his wages, not a broken government system. Exactly who am I insulting? Maybe it's insulting to me that some people (I'm not pointing fingers at anyone on this website!) feel entitled to soda with FS money. OK well then just imagine it is *my* money that is paying for all the soda and I say they can buy whatever food they want. I also have a say about my tax money. You are talking about everyone who gets FS. You cannot pretend you are not also talking about board members who happen to get FS. Edited June 5, 2011 by Sis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Many people who receive food stamps are disabled. Our country has anti discrimination laws for the disabled that state they are supposed to have access to the same things that non disabled people enjoy. Disabled people are supposed to be able to do everything from visit the library to buying the occasional Coke and chips. They are not supposed to be purposely reduced to 3rd world poverty in every area of their life. The disabled and poor don't need to be punished, or prevented from engaging in normal activities that the vast majority of Americans partake of. It is discrimination to insist that disabled and poor people only eat staples, when more affluent and healthier people can choose their own food for better or worse. I no longer live in a city slum, but when I fled my abusive marriage, I ended out homeless and then in a city slum, over an hour away by bus from a decent grocery store. One of the local stores didn't even have refrigeration for the produce and it was covered in flies. When living there I sometimes went days without fresh vegetables and fruit, and bought what was affordable and not spoiled. The poor and disabled have a lot to deal with. They do the best they can. The last thing they need is more restrictions and hoops to jump through. And the last thing the system needs to do is to hire more people to create and manage the hoops. The best thing for everyone is to just let people pick their own food and to keep their noses in their own grocery carts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindergretta Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 OK well then just imagine it is *my* money that is paying for all the soda and I say they can buy whatever food they want. I also have a say about my tax money. Oh! I like that! Since we pay in way more than we get back, others on FS are using *my* money. :D Please, with the FS funded by my taxes, buy what you need/want. Even a bottle of pop and a cake mix!! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl in NM Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 check out the food at your local gas station next time you are there. Often that is their options. congrats on denying hot dogs. You just denied a lot of kids protien. various brands of hot dogs with different kinds of meat = 4-9 grams of protein Hebrew National hot dogs = 13 grams of protein Chicken leg=14 grams of protein chicken thigh =15 grams of protein 1/2 chicken breast=29 grams protein various cheeses=4-15 grams protein various cuts of pork=17-22 grams of protein various cuts of beef=20-37 grams of protein various beans=6-8 grams of protein There are many healthier options than oscar meyer weiners. You would be able to buy flour of any kind, cornmeal, spices and could make homemade, healthy chicken nuggets. That is one option of how my plan would work. This is the kind of education I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganClassicalPrep Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 People have refused to believe me at my word throughout this whole thread. I've been called a liar and stupid (post deleted). All of this because my opinion and life experience is not popular or appreciated. I do not live in an urban area like you, I live in a rural area. Things are different here and I've posted from my experience and made that clear all throughout this thread. You came in after 3 days of posting. Have you read them all? Have you followed all the links? I just could not let the hypocrisy pass. I was called insulting for my idea of setting up a new system and teaching people how to use that system. "someone else" said that poor people can't get jobs because they are uneducated and can't speak properly. That is hypocrisy IMO. If this means me, than yes. I have read all the posts. I have been following the thread since the beginning, and have refrained from posting because... well, I was personally offended by what some were saying, and I didn't think there would be anything good to come of me posting. I certainly wasn't calling you insulting because you believe nutritional and financial education is needed. I would agree that some education should at least be made available- but what you are suggesting does in fact seem very patronizing. It reeks of the "haves" pushing their beliefs on the "have nots," and by looking at history one can see that this method doesn't work. All the knowledge in the world does no good if the system doesn't allow for someone to pull themselves out. I do not in any way believe you to be stupid. I do think that you are too rigid in your beliefs, and not willing to budge. No matter what you may have experienced in your life, the facts are (and I think it has been shown by the people who have shared their stories in this thread) that sometimes life happens, and even people who make all the "right" choices get down on their luck. You and others believe that those people should work harder, however, sometimes they are working the hardest they can. You and others believe that they should cut out all luxuries in their life, because you and others believe that people on assistance don't deserve (shouldn't have..) nice things in life. I believe that living day to day with no enjoyment only leads to depression, no motivation to make life better, and is bad for the children. Children shouldn't be denied the pleasure of a little sugar-filled snack, or a soda every now and then, or Wiis and nice clothes, because their parents are having a rough time. I don't think anything good can come out of someone forcing their morals and values on someone else. And clearly this is a value judgment- there is no black and white here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 (edited) various brands of hot dogs with different kinds of meat = 4-9 grams of proteinHebrew National hot dogs = 13 grams of protein Chicken leg=14 grams of protein chicken thigh =15 grams of protein 1/2 chicken breast=29 grams protein various cheeses=4-15 grams protein various cuts of pork=17-22 grams of protein various cuts of beef=20-37 grams of protein various beans=6-8 grams of protein There are many healthier options than oscar meyer weiners. You would be able to buy flour of any kind, cornmeal, spices and could make homemade, healthy chicken nuggets. That is one option of how my plan would work. This is the kind of education I'm talking about. :confused: Can you buy all of these in an urban 7-11? *That* is what she is saying!! Knowledge won't do *anything* without access, making it an entirely moot point. Edited June 5, 2011 by Mrs Mungo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 (edited) various brands of hot dogs with different kinds of meat = 4-9 grams of proteinHebrew National hot dogs = 13 grams of protein Chicken leg=14 grams of protein chicken thigh =15 grams of protein 1/2 chicken breast=29 grams protein various cheeses=4-15 grams protein various cuts of pork=17-22 grams of protein various cuts of beef=20-37 grams of protein various beans=6-8 grams of protein There are many healthier options than oscar meyer weiners. You would be able to buy flour of any kind, cornmeal, spices and could make homemade, healthy chicken nuggets. That is one option of how my plan would work. This is the kind of education I'm talking about. Are you kidding?!?!? Do you think people can get Hebrew National at their dinky urban grocery??? And those hot dogs are $5!! When I buy hot dogs I buy them on sale for $1 and I do not get FS Edited June 5, 2011 by Sis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl in NM Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Because you have to keep going back to the same old song and dance - FS recipients are using *my* money. *I* am using *my* money. I should have a say in what they buy as well as what I buy. That is why it is so insulting. And for the record (and 100th time) WE receive FS and we pay federal taxes. So, I am using MY money, too!! All of us keep going back to the same old song and dance. We've all given our opinions. I never said you don't pay taxes. You are not using the money directly out of your pocket; that's the distinction I'm talking about, but you already know that and disagree with it. How is it not including those of us on this Website? If you dislike FS providing soda, that does also include FS boardies. Logically speaking. :) I meant that I'm speaking in general, not anyone who has disagreed with me or attacked me. As in, I'm not using my words to retaliate here. If you do not live in an urban area why are you telling the people that do that they are wrong?? Schools here score a 1 on the great american schools website. There are some are not accredited. Do you not think that has an effect?? Would you send your child to a school that scored a 1?? Why not?? I'm simply giving my opinion based on my experience. I've been told that it is different in urban areas so I've been careful to say my generalizations apply to my area. Many people who receive food stamps are disabled. Our country has anti discrimination laws for the disabled that state they are supposed to have access to the same things that non disabled people enjoy. Disabled people are supposed to be able to do everything from visit the library to buying the occasional Coke and chips. They are not supposed to be purposely reduced to 3rd world poverty in every area of their life. The disabled and poor don't need to be punished, or prevented from engaging in normal activities that the vast majority of Americans partake of. It is discrimination to insist that disabled and poor people only eat staples, when more affluent and healthier people can choose their own food for better or worse. I no longer live in a city slum, but when I fled my abusive marriage, I ended out homeless and then in a city slum, over an hour away by bus from a decent grocery store. One of the local stores didn't even have refrigeration for the produce and it was covered in flies. When living there I sometimes went days without fresh vegetables and fruit, and bought what was affordable and not spoiled. The poor and disabled have a lot to deal with. They do the best they can. The last thing they need is more restrictions and hoops to jump through. And the last thing the system needs to do is to hire more people to create and manage the hoops. The best thing for everyone is to just let people pick their own food and to keep their noses in their own grocery carts. Please read the thread before jumping on your high horse. This was discussed already and was shot down quickly. None of us here are including the disabled in our generalizations. Under my program, there would be special dispensations for elderly and disabled. There would also be more individualized care management. I think it's important to treat the whole person/family, which is why I advocated educating in the new system. When you drastically change the way you do things you need to learn how to manage it. When I decide to try a new diet; I need to learn the parameters of the diet, what's allowed, how to shop, how to cook, how to handle snacks, etc. That's all I've been trying to say. We are all just reading these posts in this thread through the filters of our lives, which is fine, but we need to realize that just because someone's experiences or opinions are different doesn't mean they are less. I haven't said anyone's opinions or experiences were less than mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 (edited) We are all just reading these posts in this thread through the filters of our lives, which is fine, but we need to realize that just because someone's experiences or opinions are different doesn't mean they are less. I haven't said anyone's opinions or experiences were less than mine. I've lived in 4 states and overseas. I've traveled in numerous states and countries. I've been in rural grocery stores, urban grocery stores and (mostly) average suburban grocery stores. I am speaking from a fairly wide experience. You are speaking from a narrow experience and you want to re-vamp the whole system according to *your* experience. Can you see why people aren't jumping on your bandwagon or no? Edited June 5, 2011 by Mrs Mungo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindergretta Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 By that token, I am also not using money directly out of *your* pocket. And 1/8 of our grocery budget is FS. So frankly, who cares?? If I spend $XXX amount of dollars on groceries, it is all coming out of my income, including FS. FWIW, we don't get enough for *one* shopping trip. We use the card and then pay the rest with cash. So how easy would it be to judge what is being paid for with FS and what is being paid for with cash, for the casual by stander too busy paying attention to what I am doing? The premise of your program is to save money? Improve lives? Help people get out of poverty? Honestly, what is the point of your system? (Not snarky) If it is to save money, good luck. If you take all of the disabled and elderly and exempt them and just address able bodied families in your plan, then you add up all the money they spend on junk/soda, you are at a fraction of a fraction of the federal budget. So lets spend a FORTUNE to save a feew bucks. Talk about fiscally irresponsible in a time of economic depression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I'm simply giving my opinion based on my experience. I've been told that it is different in urban areas so I've been careful to say my generalizations apply to my area. How can you base an opinion on experience when you have a complete lack of experience? Please read the thread before jumping on your high horse. This was discussed already and was shot down quickly. None of us here are including the disabled in our generalizations. Under my program, there would be special dispensations for elderly and disabled. There would also be more individualized care management. I think it's important to treat the whole person/family, which is why I advocated educating in the new system. When you drastically change the way you do things you need to learn how to manage it. When I decide to try a new diet; I need to learn the parameters of the diet, what's allowed, how to shop, how to cook, how to handle snacks, etc. That's all I've been trying to say. The majority of FS recipients are urban. So, you dont have experience or knowledge of their challenges. We are all just reading these posts in this thread through the filters of our lives, which is fine, but we need to realize that just because someone's experiences or opinions are different doesn't mean they are less. I haven't said anyone's opinions or experiences were less than mine. You did actually. You said I was insulting people I know and you do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl in NM Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 If this means me, than yes. I have read all the posts. I have been following the thread since the beginning, and have refrained from posting because... well, I was personally offended by what some were saying, and I didn't think there would be anything good to come of me posting. I certainly wasn't calling you insulting because you believe nutritional and financial education is needed. I would agree that some education should at least be made available- but what you are suggesting does in fact seem very patronizing. It reeks of the "haves" pushing their beliefs on the "have nots," and by looking at history one can see that this method doesn't work. All the knowledge in the world does no good if the system doesn't allow for someone to pull themselves out. I do not in any way believe you to be stupid. I do think that you are too rigid in your beliefs, and not willing to budge. No matter what you may have experienced in your life, the facts are (and I think it has been shown by the people who have shared their stories in this thread) that sometimes life happens, and even people who make all the "right" choices get down on their luck. You and others believe that those people should work harder, however, sometimes they are working the hardest they can. You and others believe that they should cut out all luxuries in their life, because you and others believe that people on assistance don't deserve (shouldn't have..) nice things in life. I believe that living day to day with no enjoyment only leads to depression, no motivation to make life better, and is bad for the children. Children shouldn't be denied the pleasure of a little sugar-filled snack, or a soda every now and then, or Wiis and nice clothes, because their parents are having a rough time. I don't think anything good can come out of someone forcing their morals and values on someone else. And clearly this is a value judgment- there is no black and white here. Thank you so much for this post! This is a very well thought out and kind post. I see that I've come across as rigid. That's why I've tried to explain my ideas in detail. I know that life happens and I know that some people are working as hard as they can and still can't get ahead. BTDT. I'm really not trying to force my morals and values on others. But how is me saying I'd like to see my ideas in place different than someone else saying they want to keep the government programs in places as is? It's not. So if I've been trying to push my morals on others, they've been trying to push their morals on me. They are just different morals and values. I haven't even said mine were better; it's just the way I think it would work and my ideas are based on proven nutrition and even included ideas for GF and dairy free people. I've thought long and hard about my FS reform idea and tried to include as many people as i can think of. Anyway, thank you for your kind disagreement. I agree, there is no black and white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl in NM Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Are you kidding?!?!? Do you think people can get Hebrew National at their dinky urban grocery??? And those hot dogs are $5!! When I buy hot dogs I buy them on sale for $1 and I do not get FS :confused: Can you buy all of these in an urban 7-11? *That* is what she is saying!! Knowledge won't do *anything* without access, making it an entirely moot point. I am seriously asking...are there no longer butchers in big cities? There certainly are in the Seinfeld episodes (lame, I know, but my only experience with NYC) There has to be a better plan than fast food and junk food. It's just not healthy as a way of life. What about those community gardens in big cities that I hear about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 (edited) I am seriously asking...are there no longer butchers in big cities? There certainly are in the Seinfeld episodes (lame, I know, but my only experience with NYC) There has to be a better plan than fast food and junk food. It's just not healthy as a way of life. What about those community gardens in big cities that I hear about? Other urban areas are nothing like NYC, there are urban neighborhoods. Hood is neighborhood. It is just high density areas Edited June 5, 2011 by Sis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganClassicalPrep Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Thank you so much for this post! This is a very well thought out and kind post. I see that I've come across as rigid. That's why I've tried to explain my ideas in detail. I know that life happens and I know that some people are working as hard as they can and still can't get ahead. BTDT. I'm really not trying to force my morals and values on others. But how is me saying I'd like to see my ideas in place different than someone else saying they want to keep the government programs in places as is? It's not. So if I've been trying to push my morals on others, they've been trying to push their morals on me. They are just different morals and values. I haven't even said mine were better; it's just the way I think it would work and my ideas are based on proven nutrition and even included ideas for GF and dairy free people. I've thought long and hard about my FS reform idea and tried to include as many people as i can think of. Anyway, thank you for your kind disagreement. I agree, there is no black and white. I tried very hard to make SURE my post was kind, because I don't want to offend anyone. I think part of the reason so many people have responded to your post is that some have come across in a very judgmental tone. Whether it is how you intended it or not, I know that *I* have certainly felt judged, and I didn't even come in until now- and haven't shared my own personal story. I think the difference between your ideas and others is that by saying keep the system as it is- there is no change in the status quo. It is how it is. Asking for changes shakes everything up because you (general you, not you in particular) have to justify it. To get back to the original question- people who believe soda should be purchased on food stamps are not forcing you or anyone else to buy that soda, or to use the food stamps. Therefore, they aren't pushing their morals on you. But by saying soda should not be purchased with food stamps, one is forcing change upon others based on their beliefs. At least, that is how I see it. I think (hm. That's how I started my last paragraph! :tongue_smilie:) that one of the trade offs for living in a country (any country) is that there are going to be things the government does with our taxes that make us unhappy. Of course, if it means enough to us, we should get involved, but in the end, we need to accept what is being done and hope that the most people are getting the most help, even if some people are not doing the best they should. Also, to me, your ideas for reform just don't seem feasible. The food stamp system is set up to help the largest amount of people it can, for the cheapest budget. Adding educational programs, more restrictions, etc. would only increase the running budget and limit who would be helped. (And. FWIW: I also believe the system should be reformed, to actually help people get OUT of poverty, but I don't know enough about it to have any opinions on what exactly should be done.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl in NM Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I've lived in 4 states and overseas. I've traveled in numerous states and countries. I've been in rural grocery stores, urban grocery stores and (mostly) average suburban grocery stores. I am speaking from a fairly wide experience. You are speaking from a narrow experience and you want to re-vamp the whole system according to *your* experience. Can you see why people aren't jumping on your bandwagon or no? I'm not asking anyone to jump on my bandwagon. I'm just asking for the same respect I've given. I have lived in 5 states. I lived 12 miles from Washington DC and had a Safeway across the street from my apartment. It was the least expensive grocery store I've ever shopped in. I've lived in Salt Lake City, there lots of grocery stores. I've lived in very small towns in Wisconsin and Illinois, there were grocery stores. I currently live near 30 miles from Albuquerque. My closet "grocery store" is a convenience type store but offers fresh vegetables, fruit and meat. It is 4.5 miles from my house. That is not really narrow. My ideas are based what we all learned in health class. This is how the government food guide works;prepare your own food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I am seriously asking...are there no longer butchers in big cities? There certainly are in the Seinfeld episodes (lame, I know, but my only experience with NYC) There has to be a better plan than fast food and junk food. It's just not healthy as a way of life. What about those community gardens in big cities that I hear about? None of either AFAIK in my area (large college town). I've been here for 10 years and haven't seen them. I just Googled and the food bank started one community garden this year! FINALLY. I'm tempted to try and fund a plot next year since they deal with all the watering :glare: (high desert here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 (edited) I'm not asking anyone to jump on my bandwagon. I'm just asking for the same respect I've given. I have lived in 5 states. I lived 12 miles from Washington DC and had a Safeway across the street from my apartment. It was the least expensive grocery store I've ever shopped in. I've lived in Salt Lake City, there lots of grocery stores. I've lived in very small towns in Wisconsin and Illinois, there were grocery stores. I currently live near 30 miles from Albuquerque. My closet "grocery store" is a convenience type store but offers fresh vegetables, fruit and meat. It is 4.5 miles from my house. That is not really narrow. My ideas are based what we all learned in health class. This is how the government food guide works;prepare your own food. But when discussing underprivileged people you also have to consider whether or not they have a car I have never seen a convenience store that offers fresh vegetables and meat. Some here have fruit, but it is pricier than a grocery store would be Edited June 5, 2011 by Sis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl in NM Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 The premise of your program is to save money? Improve lives? Help people get out of poverty? Honestly, what is the point of your system? (Not snarky) The premise is to provide assistance for people to eat healthfully. If they want junk food, they will find a way. The FS system is only supposed to be a temporary program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl in NM Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 How can you base an opinion on experience when you have a complete lack of experience? How is this anything but just plain rude? :confused: I'm basing my opinions on my experiences. The majority of FS recipients are urban. So, you dont have experience or knowledge of their challenges. I never said I did. You did actually. You said I was insulting people I know and you do not. If it quacks like a duck.... BTW, saying someone said something insulting is different than saying someone's opinions and experiences are less than yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindergretta Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 The premise is to provide assistance for people to eat healthfully. If they want junk food, they will find a way. The FS system is only supposed to be a temporary program. Ok, two things are in your statement - healthy eating AND temporary program. One has nothing to do with the other. People can eat an extremely healthy diet and be on the program for ever. People can eat extremely poorly and get off the program quickly. If the aim is about eating healthy, why are elderly and disabled exempt? Don't they need healthy diets? If it is supposed to be temporary, obviously elderly and disabled are exempt as they aren't going to get younger and most disabled on FS are on for life long issues, not a temporary disability. Now, for the healthy part - who decides what is healthy? The same gov't that decided ketchup could be considered a vegetable in a well balanced school lunch? How do we make criteria that meets the needs of the recipients considering their access to whatever food and considers their cultural specifics? (I ask because WIC went through changes that added things like rice and tortillas to meet the needs of more cultural diets.) Food stamps are federal. What works in Seattle isn't very likely to work in New Orleans. What works in St. Jo, Missouri probably isn't what is needed in Lutherville, MD. So how are all these things rectified? Keeping in mind that more classes, more regulation, more restrictions cost more money, more tax dollars. So (totally random made up numbers here ;) ) now it takes $2 tax dollars to get $1 FS dollar into the hands of a recipient. Now if we wanted to make FS locally handled by state gov'ts, that is change I can get behind. Then the amounts can be tailored to the actual COL in a given city. Then we can have some basic regs based on foods and transportation in a given area. But as long as it is federally run, it is too much to put on one system. Our country is vast, our people diverse. One size does NOT fit all unless it is a loose fit. Right now, FS are a loose fit. (Did you see where my state made yogurt covered raisins candy but Red Vines weren't??? :svengo: These are not people I want telling anyone what is healthy!!!! :willy_nilly: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 (edited) How is this anything but just plain rude? :confused: I'm basing my opinions on my experiences. How is it rude?? You are trying to tell people with FS they are wrong without offering realistic options. You cannot devalue the experience of others when your experiences are not the same. If it quacks like a duck.... BTW, saying someone said something insulting is different than saying someone's opinions and experiences are less than yours. How is that not rude? You are now being nasty because I am discussing people I see everyday and have volunteered my time for but you have never met and have no idea about their reality. Isnt that patronizing? I did not say your experiences are less than. I said they were not the same. I said you had little knowledge of areas where there are high densities of people on FS. How is that saying your experiences are less? That is saying they are different, not less. many of the underprivileged people in my neighborhood are elderly, there is a convenience store and a dollar general. Where should they grocery shop? Edited June 5, 2011 by Sis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl in NM Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 If the aim is about eating healthy, why are elderly and disabled exempt? Don't they need healthy diets? The elderly and disabled will have a different set of rules. I thought I said that already. They have different needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindergretta Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 The elderly and disabled will have a different set of rules. I thought I said that already. They have different needs. :confused: Yikes, I hate to say it, but your system is going to cost one whack of money! The oversight to run such a convoluted system would surely stifle it. :001_huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl in NM Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Now if we wanted to make FS locally handled by state gov'ts, that is change I can get behind. Then the amounts can be tailored to the actual COL in a given city. Then we can have some basic regs based on foods and transportation in a given area. I love this idea! See, we are having a dialogue and exchange of ideas now.:hurray: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DianneR Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Isn't the purpose of food stamps to provide sustenance for individuals or families needing food for survival? Soda is one, but not my only choice for non-allowable purchases. My most frustrating experience re: food stamps at the checkout counter was during the lunch period for a local high school. Male student and four of his friends each plop a candy bar and 20 oz sodas on the scanner - the first student pays for everyone's "lunch" with his Oregon Trail card. My nostrils were flaring - when so many people really need nutritious food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindergretta Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Isn't the purpose of food stamps to provide sustenance for individuals or families needing food for survival? Soda is one, but not my only choice for non-allowable purchases. My most frustrating experience re: food stamps at the checkout counter was during the lunch period for a local high school. Male student and four of his friends each plop a candy bar and 20 oz sodas on the scanner - the first student pays for everyone's "lunch" with his Oregon Trail card. My nostrils were flaring - when so many people really need nutritious food. This has been addressed over and over ad nauseum in this thread - it is NOT an abuse if it is legal. Right now it is legal and therefore, not an abuse. My nostrils would flare if someone were paying that close of attention to what I was buying and how I paid for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl in NM Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 How is that saying your experiences are less? That is saying they are different, not less. many of the underprivileged people in my neighborhood are elderly, there is a convenience store and a dollar general. Where should they grocery shop? 1. I was asked my opinion on a public forum. I gave it to the best of my ability with my experiences. 2. I haven't said your experience was less, I just asked for you to listen to mine and not discount it because it's not the same as yours. You are the one who said I had no experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl in NM Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 :confused: Yikes, I hate to say it, but your system is going to cost one whack of money! The oversight to run such a convoluted system would surely stifle it. :001_huh: That's the problem I have. I have great ideas to make something better but it costs twice as much! :glare: I truly want to help people. I'm really not a bad person. :crying: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindergretta Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 That's the problem I have. I have great ideas to make something better but it costs twice as much! :glare: I truly want to help people. I'm really not a bad person. :crying: :grouphug: I guess that is phase two of your plan - financing! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 1. I was asked my opinion on a public forum. I gave it to the best of my ability with my experiences.2. I haven't said your experience was less, I just asked for you to listen to mine and not discount it because it's not the same as yours. You are the one who said I had no experience. I said you had no experience with people in high density areas of people who are on FS. YOU said that. I repeated it, assuing it was factual. Is your statement not factual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl in NM Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Is your statement not factual? Which statement? Again, I will defend my reputation... I do not post lies or misrepresentations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Which statement? Again, I will defend my reputation... I do not post lies or misrepresentations. I am seriously asking...are there no longer butchers in big cities? There certainly are in the Seinfeld episodes (lame, I know, but my only experience with NYC) There has to be a better plan than fast food and junk food. It's just not healthy as a way of life. What about those community gardens in big cities that I hear about? I never said I did. In response to me saying you did not have experience with urban areas Nope. In response to me asking you if you lived in a big city I do not live in an urban area like you, I live in a rural area. Things are different here and I've posted from my experience and made that clear all throughout this thread. I'm simply giving my opinion based on my experience. I've been told that it is different in urban areas so I've been careful to say my generalizations apply to my area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganClassicalPrep Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Ok, I have to ask- what's with the tag on this post? :tongue_smilie: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Good thing it was you and not me. I would not have been gracious. I am not even the least bit interested in input from a stranger. That was unspeakably rude . I am not a small woman and am constantly barraged by idiots over what I eat or the coffee I drink etc. They are speaking from a place of ignorance. I am on steroid therapy for RA safer than the meds that cause leukemia in some patients. I am getting a cane soon and will use it to jab at people who dare to presume to know what I should be doing without knowing my particular disability. Suffice it to say if you were a man NO WAY would this schmuck have mouthed off to you. Tell me where he lives and I will give him a big poke next month with my awesome cane(jabbing) instrument of justice. :grouphug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Ok, I have to ask- what's with the tag on this post? :tongue_smilie: I am wondering, too. I know what a rope-a-dope is (I am embarrassed to say I like boxing. :blush: I used to watch it with my dad) but I don't see that as Mrs. Mungo's style at all. :confused: I'd say she is more of an inside-fighter. :D ETA: Or a swarmer. Certainly not peek-a-boo. :lol: Wiki boxing styles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveOaksAcademy Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/13618342 NY is apparently looking to disallow the use of food stamps to purchase soda. What do you think? Great move!!! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdrumm4448 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Uh, news flash - it is taxes we paid, too. We get less than half of our federal tax back. We get $1200 a YEAR in FS. Believe me, we paid WAY more. And I already showed how little of the federal budget goes to FS. If it truly is frugality you are so concerned about, there are MUCH bigger fish to fry. :-/ This one is just easy. It is really easy to sit around and judge others and what they are doing and claim concern for financial responsibility. But FS are NOT the issue. Social programs in general aren't much of an issue. Read the budget. See how much of * our* tax dollars are actually spent helping the needy or down and out. Just because someone else doesn't care how their money is spent doesn't mean I, or others, feel the same way. FSs are part of a bigger spending problem here in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdrumm4448 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Discrimination? I'm not sure where that comes from. What are you assuming about assistance recipients? Lack of motivation? LMAO. I made no assumptions about assistance recipients. I simply stated people assume one of two things about them: either they are victims of discrimination or they have little motivation to improve their situation. I made no judgement about either one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdrumm4448 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Have you read studies on how ethnic names negatively affect a person's job prospects? Have you read about schools in squallor as depicted in books by Kozol? Have you thought about how someone without a basic education, who hasn't been taught the same life skills you were would do that? Have you thought about how someone's speech affects their job prospects? They don't teach elocution classes in school and the poor often face discrimination from *both sides* if they try to better themselves? Look at what Dawn said about what her dh requires out of the employees in his *lawn care* business. You can have all of the desire and motivation in the world. If you don't have the skill set or education, how are you going to go about it? I agree with you, somewhat. Although it is up to each individual to reach for and attain their best in life. The government can never give it to you, no matter how much they spend. They can give you a hand up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveOaksAcademy Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 If they try to dictate to working, tax-paying citizens whether their children should eat at McDonald's or not, it only stands to reason that those of us who pay the taxes should have a say in whether our taxes should pay for something that has absolutely NO health benefits AT ALL...actually, soda has the opposite effect: it is bad for you. It is a luxury, not a necessity. Food stamps should cover only necessary food items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdrumm4448 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 If you *honestly* want to know why people aren't listening to you or aren't hearing you, it is the above. How insulting. As it happens, I *am* using my OWN taxes for my FS. We pay IN way more than we get back out in FS. I already stated that. You insult and then accuse others of being insulting. This will go nowhere. My problem with this line of thought is this: if when you (or anyone) paid your taxes and the money went into a little account with your name on it, I could see how you would be using your own tax money for social programs. Unfortunately, the money you have already paid in was spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdrumm4448 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 (And I'm curious when this financial education should happen? Everyone I know on assistance is working/in school, doesn't leave much time for all these extra "education" programs you think should be implemented.) In my younger days I worked fulltime, attended grad school part time, and also held down a part time job. All at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdrumm4448 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Well that's a morally superior statement. Gobsmackingly insulting. There's nothing morally superior about it. It a statement of fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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