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My3Boys

No Soda Bought With Food Stamps?

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Because the working poor is a system that is nearly impossible to transcend. We lost our food stamp benefits disproportionately when my income increased. I was honest and reported the income. The food stamp benefit was eliminated: but the increase in my pay was substantially less than the food stamp benefit.

 

Because the working poor have to make choices like I did about a month ago. I woke up, wanting to go to work, but couldn't get out of bed due to extreme dizzyness. I did not have $ in either of my bank accounts to pay for a doctor's office visit (just for reference, Dh, to whom I've been married going on 6 years, has seen me sick 2 times). I couldn't walk easily and could barely move. My only option was an ER (we are uninsured).

 

1 month later, I have a $6000 ER bill and the knowledge that I have a brain lesion - but no means to follow up on that.

 

Because gas is nearly $4.00 a gallon and I work 30 miles away at both my jobs.

 

Because there are not many scholarships available for post-graduates. There are no grants. Living paycheck to paycheck, I could not wait and save to attend.

 

Because child support, even though it is not being paid regularly, works against me when applying for benefits.

 

Because any deviation from my budget derails for many weeks. I am in the red now because last month, a 15 year old truck we have spend $2500 trying to keep running died for the last time (we could rename it Lazarus, and Jesus could come back and this truck is still toast).

 

Because my DH has meds he needs that aren't on the $4 WalMart list.

 

Because the healthiest foods are not the cheapest. Teens (I've got 3) like volume.

 

Discrimination? I'm not sure where that comes from. What are you assuming about assistance recipients?

 

Lack of motivation? LMAO.

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I'm so sorry :grouphug:

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Do you live in a major city??

 

I live in Kansas city, in an urban area, you can bet your boots there are a lot of people in poverty here who cannot speak properly.

 

Nope, but there are poor people in NM that do not speak properly either. See, I say "do" not, you say "can" not. How insulting to assume that just because someone is poor they cannot physically speak properly.

 

I never denied what Mrs Mungo said, I just happen to think it's more insulting than educating people how to eat right and budget. See, earlier in this thread I was told it was insulting to provide food preparation and financial education to the poor because it assumes that they are stupid. Never mind that it's the responsible thing to do if you change the system to provide only staples (as I suggested). But Mrs Mungo's post says that they can't speak right and aren't educated.

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Nope, but there are poor people in NM that do not speak properly either. See, I say "do" not, you say "can" not. How insulting to assume that just because someone is poor they cannot physically speak properly.

 

WTF are you talking about?

 

WHERE did I say CAN not? I didn't.

 

Here are quotes from me:

"Have you thought about how someone's speech affects their job prospects? They don't teach elocution classes in school and the poor often face discrimination from *both sides* if they try to better themselves?"

 

and

 

"I have personally seen people not get specific jobs because they did not speak well enough."

 

WHERE, pray tell, did I say anyone is physically incapable of speaking properly? Are you going for a record of how many times I can prove you wrong in a 48 hour period?

 

I never denied what Mrs Mungo said, I just happen to think it's more insulting than educating people how to eat right and budget. See, earlier in this thread I was told it was insulting to provide food preparation and financial education to the poor because it assumes that they are stupid. Never mind that it's the responsible thing to do if you change the system to provide only staples (as I suggested). But Mrs Mungo's post says that they can't speak right and aren't educated.
YOU are the one who made assumptions about all people on assistance. I didn't freaking SAY anything in that post about people on assistance, I brought up barriers to people pulling themselves out of generational poverty in response to someone who said motivation should be enough. Those barriers do NOT apply to everyone on assistance and I never said they did! I'm sorry you are so confused, but at this point I am pretty darn sure it isn't my fault.

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Nope, but there are poor people in NM that do not speak properly either. See, I say "do" not, you say "can" not. How insulting to assume that just because someone is poor they cannot physically speak properly.

 

I never denied what Mrs Mungo said, I just happen to think it's more insulting than educating people how to eat right and budget. See, earlier in this thread I was told it was insulting to provide food preparation and financial education to the poor because it assumes that they are stupid. Never mind that it's the responsible thing to do if you change the system to provide only staples (as I suggested). But Mrs Mungo's post says that they can't speak right and aren't educated.

 

I think part of the issue here is that poor eating habits and poor financial habits are not only vices of the poor. And there are many poor who suffer from neither. Likewise, there are plenty on middle and high income earners with poor diets and lousy financial skills.

 

Your assertion to teach poor people how to eat a healthy diet and manage money was insulting because it assumes that by nature of being poor, they can do neither.

 

OTOH, stating that many people entrenched in generataional poverty in "ghetto" areas lack the ability to just improve their situation is (IMO) different because it is addressing the fact that many attend schools with poor statistics, low test scores, high teacher turn over, constant exposure to "lingo" rather than language, etc.

 

Many people on assistance are in this situation. MANY are NOT. (emphasis, not yelling) Mrs Mungo was speaking to those who are considered "welfare queens" or "too lazy" to better themselves. You were speaking to ALL who receive assistance. Big difference. Not everyone on assistance needs "educating" on budgeting and healthy eating. Some on assistance don't have the means to better themselves because the situation in which they find themselves is utterly isolating, kept within their own community.

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Nope, but there are poor people in NM that do not speak properly either. See, I say "do" not, you say "can" not. How insulting to assume that just because someone is poor they cannot physically speak properly.

 

How I am more insulting by treating it like an accent than calling them lazy?

 

That does not make sense to me, could you explain how I am being insulting?

 

 

I never denied what Mrs Mungo said, I just happen to think it's more insulting than educating people how to eat right and budget. See, earlier in this thread I was told it was insulting to provide food preparation and financial education to the poor because it assumes that they are stupid. Never mind that it's the responsible thing to do if you change the system to provide only staples (as I suggested). But Mrs Mungo's post says that they can't speak right and aren't educated.

 

I think it is more of a problem that poor people cannot get to a decent grocery store without a long bus ride. You cannot teach them about vegetables if they do not have easy acess to them.

 

No one said anyone is stupid. That is a falsehood.

 

I do not think you actually have any perception at all regarding the poor and their reality.

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Nope, but there are poor people in NM that do not speak properly either. See, I say "do" not, you say "can" not. How insulting to assume that just because someone is poor they cannot physically speak properly.

 

I never denied what Mrs Mungo said, I just happen to think it's more insulting than educating people how to eat right and budget. See, earlier in this thread I was told it was insulting to provide food preparation and financial education to the poor because it assumes that they are stupid. Never mind that it's the responsible thing to do if you change the system to provide only staples (as I suggested). But Mrs Mungo's post says that they can't speak right and aren't educated.

 

I keep thinking I'm reading a different thread when I read some of your answers. She doesn't say that AT ALL. You are misinterpreting her answer and refusing to believe her at her word when she clarifies.

 

Not cool.

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It is odd, thinking about this long thread, that if barring sodas upsets some people, why are they not upset the money is for food only? It seems to me directing funds to a needy person but saying ONLY FOOD is much more limiting than saying only food and no pop. It seems such a small item compared to the huge limitation of money on food (and not rent, or medicine, or electricity).

 

For me, our food stamp allowance is just enough for me to get our food for the month if I'm careful, so I couldn't use it for anything else anyway. I think a lot of people would be tempted to just blow it if they had money to use on anything. "Just this once," you know? Even I would be, on occasion. There are separate programs to help with utilities & such here as well.

 

Stop arguing about pop and food stamps, and discuss the real problem. Why can't more people pull THEMSELVES out of poverty one step at a time? Some would say discrimination, others would say lack of motivation.

 

In our case, FS ARE our means out. It is because of FS that I can stay with the kids while dh gets his degrees (and works FT). But unless you have a large change in circumstances, it would be hard to get out of the system. If you get a raise or cut an expense, you lose corresponding benefits so you aren't any better off, and sometimes worse. It's hard to dig out when any time you aid your own situation, it's knocked right back down on the o ther side.

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[quote name=cindergretta;2797610

Your assertion to teach poor people how to eat a healthy diet and manage money was insulting because it assumes that by nature of being poor' date=' they can do neither.

 

Actually, what I said was that I didn't think FS recipients should buy soda with FS, or that they should buy junk food. I offered a suggested solution to what I see as a flawed system. I said I thought people should only be allowed to purchase "staples" with FS and then should be educated in how to cook nutritionally with those staples. Educating FS recipients after such a drastic change to the system is the only responsible thing to do. I thought it was obvious. People who are used to buying corn dogs, hot dogs, chips, soda, and other pre-made items may not fully understand how to use staples to provide a balanced menu for their families. I'm not saying ALL FS recipients eat a junk food diet.

 

I also said that financial education would benefit people on FS as well. I don't know many people who wouldn't benefit from financial education in some form or other.

 

I may eat junk food, but I'm doing it with my own money.

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I may eat junk food, but I'm doing it with my own money.

 

If you *honestly* want to know why people aren't listening to you or aren't hearing you, it is the above. How insulting.

 

As it happens, I *am* using my OWN taxes for my FS. We pay IN way more than we get back out in FS. I already stated that.

 

You insult and then accuse others of being insulting.

 

This will go nowhere.

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In our case, FS ARE our means out. It is because of FS that I can stay with the kids while dh gets his degrees (and works FT). But unless you have a large change in circumstances, it would be hard to get out of the system. If you get a raise or cut an expense, you lose corresponding benefits so you aren't any better off, and sometimes worse. It's hard to dig out when any time you aid your own situation, it's knocked right back down on the o ther side.

:iagree:

 

I also said that financial education would benefit people on FS as well. I don't know many people who wouldn't benefit from financial education in some form or other.

 

Sorry but this just made me laugh.

Financial education would do me no good. We live on less than 13K a year and pay 700 a month in rent. I hazard to say such a generalization- but financial education would be no good for many people I know on various types of assistance. The money just isn't there, and no amount of financial education is going to change that.

(And I'm curious when this financial education should happen? Everyone I know on assistance is working/in school, doesn't leave much time for all these extra "education" programs you think should be implemented.)

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Just for clarification...

 

My post number 751 was in response to Sis's post 749 which I quoted. The "you say "can" not" part was in direct response to Sis's quoted post #749.

 

People have refused to believe me at my word throughout this whole thread. I've been called a liar and stupid (post deleted). All of this because my opinion and life experience is not popular or appreciated. I do not live in an urban area like you, I live in a rural area. Things are different here and I've posted from my experience and made that clear all throughout this thread. You came in after 3 days of posting. Have you read them all? Have you followed all the links? I just could not let the hypocrisy pass. I was called insulting for my idea of setting up a new system and teaching people how to use that system. "someone else" said that poor people can't get jobs because they are uneducated and can't speak properly. That is hypocrisy IMO.

 

I have a reputation on this board of noting and apologizing when I am wrong. I have a good reputation on this board, even if many do not agree with what I say.

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I may eat junk food, but I'm doing it with my own money.

 

Well that's a morally superior statement. Gobsmackingly insulting.

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Actually, what I said was that I didn't think FS recipients should buy soda with FS, or that they should buy junk food. I offered a suggested solution to what I see as a flawed system. I said I thought people should only be allowed to purchase "staples" with FS and then should be educated in how to cook nutritionally with those staples. Educating FS recipients after such a drastic change to the system is the only responsible thing to do. I thought it was obvious. People who are used to buying corn dogs, hot dogs, chips, soda, and other pre-made items may not fully understand how to use staples to provide a balanced menu for their failies. I'm not saying ALL FS recipients eat a junk food diet.

 

I also said that financial education would benefit people on FS as well. I don't know many people who wouldn't benefit from financial education in some form or other.

 

I may eat junk food, but I'm doing it with my own money.

 

 

check out the food at your local gas station next time you are there. Often that is their options.

 

congrats on denying hot dogs. You just denied a lot of kids protien.

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If you *honestly* want to know why people aren't listening to you or aren't hearing you, it is the above. How insulting.

 

As it happens, I *am* using my OWN taxes for my FS. We pay IN way more than we get back out in FS. I already stated that.

 

You insult and then accuse others of being insulting.

 

This will go nowhere.

 

:confused: My husband goes to work. His paycheck goes into the bank. I go to the store. Sometimes I buy junk food. I buy it with his wages, not a broken government system.

 

Exactly who am I insulting? Maybe it's insulting to me that some people (I'm not pointing fingers at anyone on this website!) feel entitled to soda with FS money.

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Just for clarification...

 

My post number 751 was in response to Sis's post 749 which I quoted. The "you say "can" not" part was in direct response to Sis's quoted post #749.

 

Direct quote from you:

"But Mrs Mungo's post says that they can't speak right and aren't educated."

 

I was called insulting for my idea of setting up a new system and teaching people how to use that system. "someone else" said that poor people can't get jobs because they are uneducated and can't speak properly. That is hypocrisy IMO.

 

Except, that's not what happened.

 

You said the system should be changed to teach them proper nutrition, totally ignoring the many posts I made and articles I linked explaining why that isn't possible for everyone, no matter HOW much they know about nutrition.

 

I made a post addressing a totally different issue: whether motivation is enough to get one out of generational poverty.

 

These are totally different things!

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:confused: My husband goes to work. His paycheck goes into the bank. I go to the store. Sometimes I buy junk food. I buy it with his wages, not a broken government system.

 

Exactly who am I insulting? Maybe it's insulting to me that some people (I'm not pointing fingers at anyone on this website!) feel entitled to soda with FS money.

 

Because you have to keep going back to the same old song and dance -

 

FS recipients are using *my* money. *I* am using *my* money. I should have a say in what they buy as well as what I buy.

 

That is why it is so insulting. And for the record (and 100th time) WE receive FS and we pay federal taxes. So, I am using MY money, too!!

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:confused: My husband goes to work. His paycheck goes into the bank. I go to the store. Sometimes I buy junk food. I buy it with his wages, not a broken government system.

 

Exactly who am I insulting? Maybe it's insulting to me that some people (I'm not pointing fingers at anyone on this website!) feel entitled to soda with FS money.

 

How is it not including those of us on this Website? If you dislike FS providing soda, that does also include FS boardies. Logically speaking. :)

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Just for clarification...

 

My post number 751 was in response to Sis's post 749 which I quoted. The "you say "can" not" part was in direct response to Sis's quoted post #749.

 

People have refused to believe me at my word throughout this whole thread. I've been called a liar and stupid (post deleted). All of this because my opinion and life experience is not popular or appreciated. I do not live in an urban area like you, I live in a rural area. Things are different here and I've posted from my experience and made that clear all throughout this thread. You came in after 3 days of posting. Have you read them all? Have you followed all the links? I just could not let the hypocrisy pass. I was called insulting for my idea of setting up a new system and teaching people how to use that system. "someone else" said that poor people can't get jobs because they are uneducated and can't speak properly. That is hypocrisy IMO.

 

I have a reputation on this board of noting and apologizing when I am wrong. I have a good reputation on this board, even if many do not agree with what I say.

 

 

If you do not live in an urban area why are you telling the people that do that they are wrong??

 

Schools here score a 1 on the great american schools website. There are some are not accredited. Do you not think that has an effect?? Would you send your child to a school that scored a 1?? Why not??

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:confused: My husband goes to work. His paycheck goes into the bank. I go to the store. Sometimes I buy junk food. I buy it with his wages, not a broken government system.

 

Exactly who am I insulting? Maybe it's insulting to me that some people (I'm not pointing fingers at anyone on this website!) feel entitled to soda with FS money.

 

 

OK well then just imagine it is *my* money that is paying for all the soda and I say they can buy whatever food they want. I also have a say about my tax money.

 

You are talking about everyone who gets FS. You cannot pretend you are not also talking about board members who happen to get FS.

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Many people who receive food stamps are disabled. Our country has anti discrimination laws for the disabled that state they are supposed to have access to the same things that non disabled people enjoy. Disabled people are supposed to be able to do everything from visit the library to buying the occasional Coke and chips.

 

They are not supposed to be purposely reduced to 3rd world poverty in every area of their life. The disabled and poor don't need to be punished, or prevented from engaging in normal activities that the vast majority of Americans partake of.

 

It is discrimination to insist that disabled and poor people only eat staples, when more affluent and healthier people can choose their own food for better or worse.

 

I no longer live in a city slum, but when I fled my abusive marriage, I ended out homeless and then in a city slum, over an hour away by bus from a decent grocery store. One of the local stores didn't even have refrigeration for the produce and it was covered in flies. When living there I sometimes went days without fresh vegetables and fruit, and bought what was affordable and not spoiled.

 

The poor and disabled have a lot to deal with. They do the best they can. The last thing they need is more restrictions and hoops to jump through. And the last thing the system needs to do is to hire more people to create and manage the hoops.

 

The best thing for everyone is to just let people pick their own food and to keep their noses in their own grocery carts.

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OK well then just imagine it is *my* money that is paying for all the soda and I say they can buy whatever food they want. I also have a say about my tax money.

 

 

Oh! I like that! Since we pay in way more than we get back, others on FS are using *my* money. :D Please, with the FS funded by my taxes, buy what you need/want. Even a bottle of pop and a cake mix!! :D

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check out the food at your local gas station next time you are there. Often that is their options.

 

congrats on denying hot dogs. You just denied a lot of kids protien.

 

various brands of hot dogs with different kinds of meat = 4-9 grams of protein

Hebrew National hot dogs = 13 grams of protein

Chicken leg=14 grams of protein

chicken thigh =15 grams of protein

1/2 chicken breast=29 grams protein

various cheeses=4-15 grams protein

various cuts of pork=17-22 grams of protein

various cuts of beef=20-37 grams of protein

various beans=6-8 grams of protein

 

There are many healthier options than oscar meyer weiners. You would be able to buy flour of any kind, cornmeal, spices and could make homemade, healthy chicken nuggets. That is one option of how my plan would work. This is the kind of education I'm talking about.

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People have refused to believe me at my word throughout this whole thread. I've been called a liar and stupid (post deleted). All of this because my opinion and life experience is not popular or appreciated. I do not live in an urban area like you, I live in a rural area. Things are different here and I've posted from my experience and made that clear all throughout this thread. You came in after 3 days of posting. Have you read them all? Have you followed all the links? I just could not let the hypocrisy pass. I was called insulting for my idea of setting up a new system and teaching people how to use that system. "someone else" said that poor people can't get jobs because they are uneducated and can't speak properly. That is hypocrisy IMO.

 

If this means me, than yes. I have read all the posts. I have been following the thread since the beginning, and have refrained from posting because... well, I was personally offended by what some were saying, and I didn't think there would be anything good to come of me posting.

 

I certainly wasn't calling you insulting because you believe nutritional and financial education is needed. I would agree that some education should at least be made available- but what you are suggesting does in fact seem very patronizing. It reeks of the "haves" pushing their beliefs on the "have nots," and by looking at history one can see that this method doesn't work. All the knowledge in the world does no good if the system doesn't allow for someone to pull themselves out.

 

I do not in any way believe you to be stupid. I do think that you are too rigid in your beliefs, and not willing to budge. No matter what you may have experienced in your life, the facts are (and I think it has been shown by the people who have shared their stories in this thread) that sometimes life happens, and even people who make all the "right" choices get down on their luck. You and others believe that those people should work harder, however, sometimes they are working the hardest they can. You and others believe that they should cut out all luxuries in their life, because you and others believe that people on assistance don't deserve (shouldn't have..) nice things in life. I believe that living day to day with no enjoyment only leads to depression, no motivation to make life better, and is bad for the children. Children shouldn't be denied the pleasure of a little sugar-filled snack, or a soda every now and then, or Wiis and nice clothes, because their parents are having a rough time.

 

I don't think anything good can come out of someone forcing their morals and values on someone else. And clearly this is a value judgment- there is no black and white here.

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various brands of hot dogs with different kinds of meat = 4-9 grams of protein

Hebrew National hot dogs = 13 grams of protein

Chicken leg=14 grams of protein

chicken thigh =15 grams of protein

1/2 chicken breast=29 grams protein

various cheeses=4-15 grams protein

various cuts of pork=17-22 grams of protein

various cuts of beef=20-37 grams of protein

various beans=6-8 grams of protein

 

There are many healthier options than oscar meyer weiners. You would be able to buy flour of any kind, cornmeal, spices and could make homemade, healthy chicken nuggets. That is one option of how my plan would work. This is the kind of education I'm talking about.

 

:confused: Can you buy all of these in an urban 7-11? *That* is what she is saying!! Knowledge won't do *anything* without access, making it an entirely moot point.

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various brands of hot dogs with different kinds of meat = 4-9 grams of protein

Hebrew National hot dogs = 13 grams of protein

Chicken leg=14 grams of protein

chicken thigh =15 grams of protein

1/2 chicken breast=29 grams protein

various cheeses=4-15 grams protein

various cuts of pork=17-22 grams of protein

various cuts of beef=20-37 grams of protein

various beans=6-8 grams of protein

 

There are many healthier options than oscar meyer weiners. You would be able to buy flour of any kind, cornmeal, spices and could make homemade, healthy chicken nuggets. That is one option of how my plan would work. This is the kind of education I'm talking about.

 

Are you kidding?!?!? Do you think people can get Hebrew National at their dinky urban grocery??? And those hot dogs are $5!! When I buy hot dogs I buy them on sale for $1 and I do not get FS

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Because you have to keep going back to the same old song and dance -

 

FS recipients are using *my* money. *I* am using *my* money. I should have a say in what they buy as well as what I buy.

 

That is why it is so insulting. And for the record (and 100th time) WE receive FS and we pay federal taxes. So, I am using MY money, too!!

 

All of us keep going back to the same old song and dance. We've all given our opinions. I never said you don't pay taxes. You are not using the money directly out of your pocket; that's the distinction I'm talking about, but you already know that and disagree with it.

 

How is it not including those of us on this Website? If you dislike FS providing soda, that does also include FS boardies. Logically speaking. :)

 

I meant that I'm speaking in general, not anyone who has disagreed with me or attacked me. As in, I'm not using my words to retaliate here.

 

If you do not live in an urban area why are you telling the people that do that they are wrong??

 

Schools here score a 1 on the great american schools website. There are some are not accredited. Do you not think that has an effect?? Would you send your child to a school that scored a 1?? Why not??

 

I'm simply giving my opinion based on my experience. I've been told that it is different in urban areas so I've been careful to say my generalizations apply to my area.

 

Many people who receive food stamps are disabled. Our country has anti discrimination laws for the disabled that state they are supposed to have access to the same things that non disabled people enjoy. Disabled people are supposed to be able to do everything from visit the library to buying the occasional Coke and chips.

 

They are not supposed to be purposely reduced to 3rd world poverty in every area of their life. The disabled and poor don't need to be punished, or prevented from engaging in normal activities that the vast majority of Americans partake of.

 

It is discrimination to insist that disabled and poor people only eat staples, when more affluent and healthier people can choose their own food for better or worse.

 

I no longer live in a city slum, but when I fled my abusive marriage, I ended out homeless and then in a city slum, over an hour away by bus from a decent grocery store. One of the local stores didn't even have refrigeration for the produce and it was covered in flies. When living there I sometimes went days without fresh vegetables and fruit, and bought what was affordable and not spoiled.

 

The poor and disabled have a lot to deal with. They do the best they can. The last thing they need is more restrictions and hoops to jump through. And the last thing the system needs to do is to hire more people to create and manage the hoops.

 

The best thing for everyone is to just let people pick their own food and to keep their noses in their own grocery carts.

 

Please read the thread before jumping on your high horse. This was discussed already and was shot down quickly. None of us here are including the disabled in our generalizations. Under my program, there would be special dispensations for elderly and disabled. There would also be more individualized care management. I think it's important to treat the whole person/family, which is why I advocated educating in the new system. When you drastically change the way you do things you need to learn how to manage it. When I decide to try a new diet; I need to learn the parameters of the diet, what's allowed, how to shop, how to cook, how to handle snacks, etc. That's all I've been trying to say.

 

We are all just reading these posts in this thread through the filters of our lives, which is fine, but we need to realize that just because someone's experiences or opinions are different doesn't mean they are less. I haven't said anyone's opinions or experiences were less than mine.

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We are all just reading these posts in this thread through the filters of our lives, which is fine, but we need to realize that just because someone's experiences or opinions are different doesn't mean they are less. I haven't said anyone's opinions or experiences were less than mine.

 

I've lived in 4 states and overseas. I've traveled in numerous states and countries. I've been in rural grocery stores, urban grocery stores and (mostly) average suburban grocery stores. I am speaking from a fairly wide experience.

 

You are speaking from a narrow experience and you want to re-vamp the whole system according to *your* experience.

 

Can you see why people aren't jumping on your bandwagon or no?

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By that token, I am also not using money directly out of *your* pocket.

 

And 1/8 of our grocery budget is FS. So frankly, who cares?? If I spend $XXX amount of dollars on groceries, it is all coming out of my income, including FS. FWIW, we don't get enough for *one* shopping trip. We use the card and then pay the rest with cash. So how easy would it be to judge what is being paid for with FS and what is being paid for with cash, for the casual by stander too busy paying attention to what I am doing?

 

The premise of your program is to save money? Improve lives? Help people get out of poverty? Honestly, what is the point of your system? (Not snarky)

 

If it is to save money, good luck. If you take all of the disabled and elderly and exempt them and just address able bodied families in your plan, then you add up all the money they spend on junk/soda, you are at a fraction of a fraction of the federal budget. So lets spend a FORTUNE to save a feew bucks. Talk about fiscally irresponsible in a time of economic depression.

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I'm simply giving my opinion based on my experience. I've been told that it is different in urban areas so I've been careful to say my generalizations apply to my area.

How can you base an opinion on experience when you have a complete lack of experience?

 

Please read the thread before jumping on your high horse. This was discussed already and was shot down quickly. None of us here are including the disabled in our generalizations. Under my program, there would be special dispensations for elderly and disabled. There would also be more individualized care management. I think it's important to treat the whole person/family, which is why I advocated educating in the new system. When you drastically change the way you do things you need to learn how to manage it. When I decide to try a new diet; I need to learn the parameters of the diet, what's allowed, how to shop, how to cook, how to handle snacks, etc. That's all I've been trying to say.

 

The majority of FS recipients are urban. So, you dont have experience or knowledge of their challenges.

 

We are all just reading these posts in this thread through the filters of our lives, which is fine, but we need to realize that just because someone's experiences or opinions are different doesn't mean they are less. I haven't said anyone's opinions or experiences were less than mine.

You did actually. You said I was insulting people I know and you do not.

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If this means me, than yes. I have read all the posts. I have been following the thread since the beginning, and have refrained from posting because... well, I was personally offended by what some were saying, and I didn't think there would be anything good to come of me posting.

 

I certainly wasn't calling you insulting because you believe nutritional and financial education is needed. I would agree that some education should at least be made available- but what you are suggesting does in fact seem very patronizing. It reeks of the "haves" pushing their beliefs on the "have nots," and by looking at history one can see that this method doesn't work. All the knowledge in the world does no good if the system doesn't allow for someone to pull themselves out.

 

I do not in any way believe you to be stupid. I do think that you are too rigid in your beliefs, and not willing to budge. No matter what you may have experienced in your life, the facts are (and I think it has been shown by the people who have shared their stories in this thread) that sometimes life happens, and even people who make all the "right" choices get down on their luck. You and others believe that those people should work harder, however, sometimes they are working the hardest they can. You and others believe that they should cut out all luxuries in their life, because you and others believe that people on assistance don't deserve (shouldn't have..) nice things in life. I believe that living day to day with no enjoyment only leads to depression, no motivation to make life better, and is bad for the children. Children shouldn't be denied the pleasure of a little sugar-filled snack, or a soda every now and then, or Wiis and nice clothes, because their parents are having a rough time.

 

I don't think anything good can come out of someone forcing their morals and values on someone else. And clearly this is a value judgment- there is no black and white here.

 

Thank you so much for this post! This is a very well thought out and kind post. I see that I've come across as rigid. That's why I've tried to explain my ideas in detail. I know that life happens and I know that some people are working as hard as they can and still can't get ahead. BTDT. I'm really not trying to force my morals and values on others. But how is me saying I'd like to see my ideas in place different than someone else saying they want to keep the government programs in places as is? It's not. So if I've been trying to push my morals on others, they've been trying to push their morals on me. They are just different morals and values. I haven't even said mine were better; it's just the way I think it would work and my ideas are based on proven nutrition and even included ideas for GF and dairy free people. I've thought long and hard about my FS reform idea and tried to include as many people as i can think of.

 

Anyway, thank you for your kind disagreement. I agree, there is no black and white.

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Are you kidding?!?!? Do you think people can get Hebrew National at their dinky urban grocery??? And those hot dogs are $5!! When I buy hot dogs I buy them on sale for $1 and I do not get FS

 

:confused: Can you buy all of these in an urban 7-11? *That* is what she is saying!! Knowledge won't do *anything* without access, making it an entirely moot point.

 

I am seriously asking...are there no longer butchers in big cities? There certainly are in the Seinfeld episodes (lame, I know, but my only experience with NYC) There has to be a better plan than fast food and junk food. It's just not healthy as a way of life. What about those community gardens in big cities that I hear about?

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I am seriously asking...are there no longer butchers in big cities? There certainly are in the Seinfeld episodes (lame, I know, but my only experience with NYC) There has to be a better plan than fast food and junk food. It's just not healthy as a way of life. What about those community gardens in big cities that I hear about?

 

Other urban areas are nothing like NYC, there are urban neighborhoods. Hood is neighborhood. It is just high density areas

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Thank you so much for this post! This is a very well thought out and kind post. I see that I've come across as rigid. That's why I've tried to explain my ideas in detail. I know that life happens and I know that some people are working as hard as they can and still can't get ahead. BTDT. I'm really not trying to force my morals and values on others. But how is me saying I'd like to see my ideas in place different than someone else saying they want to keep the government programs in places as is? It's not. So if I've been trying to push my morals on others, they've been trying to push their morals on me. They are just different morals and values. I haven't even said mine were better; it's just the way I think it would work and my ideas are based on proven nutrition and even included ideas for GF and dairy free people. I've thought long and hard about my FS reform idea and tried to include as many people as i can think of.

 

Anyway, thank you for your kind disagreement. I agree, there is no black and white.

 

I tried very hard to make SURE my post was kind, because I don't want to offend anyone. I think part of the reason so many people have responded to your post is that some have come across in a very judgmental tone. Whether it is how you intended it or not, I know that *I* have certainly felt judged, and I didn't even come in until now- and haven't shared my own personal story.

 

I think the difference between your ideas and others is that by saying keep the system as it is- there is no change in the status quo. It is how it is. Asking for changes shakes everything up because you (general you, not you in particular) have to justify it. To get back to the original question- people who believe soda should be purchased on food stamps are not forcing you or anyone else to buy that soda, or to use the food stamps. Therefore, they aren't pushing their morals on you. But by saying soda should not be purchased with food stamps, one is forcing change upon others based on their beliefs. At least, that is how I see it.

 

I think (hm. That's how I started my last paragraph! :tongue_smilie:) that one of the trade offs for living in a country (any country) is that there are going to be things the government does with our taxes that make us unhappy. Of course, if it means enough to us, we should get involved, but in the end, we need to accept what is being done and hope that the most people are getting the most help, even if some people are not doing the best they should.

 

Also, to me, your ideas for reform just don't seem feasible. The food stamp system is set up to help the largest amount of people it can, for the cheapest budget. Adding educational programs, more restrictions, etc. would only increase the running budget and limit who would be helped.

 

(And. FWIW: I also believe the system should be reformed, to actually help people get OUT of poverty, but I don't know enough about it to have any opinions on what exactly should be done.)

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I've lived in 4 states and overseas. I've traveled in numerous states and countries. I've been in rural grocery stores, urban grocery stores and (mostly) average suburban grocery stores. I am speaking from a fairly wide experience.

 

You are speaking from a narrow experience and you want to re-vamp the whole system according to *your* experience.

 

Can you see why people aren't jumping on your bandwagon or no?

 

I'm not asking anyone to jump on my bandwagon. I'm just asking for the same respect I've given.

 

I have lived in 5 states. I lived 12 miles from Washington DC and had a Safeway across the street from my apartment. It was the least expensive grocery store I've ever shopped in. I've lived in Salt Lake City, there lots of grocery stores. I've lived in very small towns in Wisconsin and Illinois, there were grocery stores. I currently live near 30 miles from Albuquerque. My closet "grocery store" is a convenience type store but offers fresh vegetables, fruit and meat. It is 4.5 miles from my house.

 

That is not really narrow. My ideas are based what we all learned in health class. This is how the government food guide works;prepare your own food.

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I am seriously asking...are there no longer butchers in big cities? There certainly are in the Seinfeld episodes (lame, I know, but my only experience with NYC) There has to be a better plan than fast food and junk food. It's just not healthy as a way of life. What about those community gardens in big cities that I hear about?

 

 

None of either AFAIK in my area (large college town). I've been here for 10 years and haven't seen them.

 

I just Googled and the food bank started one community garden this year! FINALLY. I'm tempted to try and fund a plot next year since they deal with all the watering :glare: (high desert here).

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I'm not asking anyone to jump on my bandwagon. I'm just asking for the same respect I've given.

 

I have lived in 5 states. I lived 12 miles from Washington DC and had a Safeway across the street from my apartment. It was the least expensive grocery store I've ever shopped in. I've lived in Salt Lake City, there lots of grocery stores. I've lived in very small towns in Wisconsin and Illinois, there were grocery stores. I currently live near 30 miles from Albuquerque. My closet "grocery store" is a convenience type store but offers fresh vegetables, fruit and meat. It is 4.5 miles from my house.

 

That is not really narrow. My ideas are based what we all learned in health class. This is how the government food guide works;prepare your own food.

 

But when discussing underprivileged people you also have to consider whether or not they have a car

 

I have never seen a convenience store that offers fresh vegetables and meat. Some here have fruit, but it is pricier than a grocery store would be

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The premise of your program is to save money? Improve lives? Help people get out of poverty? Honestly, what is the point of your system? (Not snarky)

 

 

The premise is to provide assistance for people to eat healthfully. If they want junk food, they will find a way. The FS system is only supposed to be a temporary program.

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How can you base an opinion on experience when you have a complete lack of experience?

 

How is this anything but just plain rude? :confused: I'm basing my opinions on my experiences.

 

 

The majority of FS recipients are urban. So, you dont have experience or knowledge of their challenges.

 

I never said I did.

 

 

You did actually. You said I was insulting people I know and you do not.

 

If it quacks like a duck.... BTW, saying someone said something insulting is different than saying someone's opinions and experiences are less than yours.

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The premise is to provide assistance for people to eat healthfully. If they want junk food, they will find a way. The FS system is only supposed to be a temporary program.

 

Ok, two things are in your statement - healthy eating AND temporary program. One has nothing to do with the other. People can eat an extremely healthy diet and be on the program for ever. People can eat extremely poorly and get off the program quickly.

 

If the aim is about eating healthy, why are elderly and disabled exempt? Don't they need healthy diets?

 

If it is supposed to be temporary, obviously elderly and disabled are exempt as they aren't going to get younger and most disabled on FS are on for life long issues, not a temporary disability.

 

Now, for the healthy part - who decides what is healthy? The same gov't that decided ketchup could be considered a vegetable in a well balanced school lunch? How do we make criteria that meets the needs of the recipients considering their access to whatever food and considers their cultural specifics? (I ask because WIC went through changes that added things like rice and tortillas to meet the needs of more cultural diets.)

 

Food stamps are federal. What works in Seattle isn't very likely to work in New Orleans. What works in St. Jo, Missouri probably isn't what is needed in Lutherville, MD. So how are all these things rectified?

 

Keeping in mind that more classes, more regulation, more restrictions cost more money, more tax dollars. So (totally random made up numbers here ;) ) now it takes $2 tax dollars to get $1 FS dollar into the hands of a recipient.

 

Now if we wanted to make FS locally handled by state gov'ts, that is change I can get behind. Then the amounts can be tailored to the actual COL in a given city. Then we can have some basic regs based on foods and transportation in a given area.

 

But as long as it is federally run, it is too much to put on one system. Our country is vast, our people diverse. One size does NOT fit all unless it is a loose fit. Right now, FS are a loose fit.

 

(Did you see where my state made yogurt covered raisins candy but Red Vines weren't??? :svengo: These are not people I want telling anyone what is healthy!!!! :willy_nilly: )

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How is this anything but just plain rude? :confused: I'm basing my opinions on my experiences.

 

 

How is it rude?? You are trying to tell people with FS they are wrong without offering realistic options. You cannot devalue the experience of others when your experiences are not the same.

 

If it quacks like a duck.... BTW, saying someone said something insulting is different than saying someone's opinions and experiences are less than yours.

 

How is that not rude? You are now being nasty because I am discussing people I see everyday and have volunteered my time for but you have never met and have no idea about their reality. Isnt that patronizing?

 

I did not say your experiences are less than. I said they were not the same. I said you had little knowledge of areas where there are high densities of people on FS. How is that saying your experiences are less? That is saying they are different, not less.

 

many of the underprivileged people in my neighborhood are elderly, there is a convenience store and a dollar general. Where should they grocery shop?

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If the aim is about eating healthy, why are elderly and disabled exempt? Don't they need healthy diets?

 

 

The elderly and disabled will have a different set of rules. I thought I said that already. They have different needs.

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The elderly and disabled will have a different set of rules. I thought I said that already. They have different needs.

 

:confused: Yikes, I hate to say it, but your system is going to cost one whack of money! The oversight to run such a convoluted system would surely stifle it. :001_huh:

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Now if we wanted to make FS locally handled by state gov'ts, that is change I can get behind. Then the amounts can be tailored to the actual COL in a given city. Then we can have some basic regs based on foods and transportation in a given area.

 

 

I love this idea! See, we are having a dialogue and exchange of ideas now.:hurray:

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Isn't the purpose of food stamps to provide sustenance for individuals or families needing food for survival? Soda is one, but not my only choice for non-allowable purchases. My most frustrating experience re: food stamps at the checkout counter was during the lunch period for a local high school. Male student and four of his friends each plop a candy bar and 20 oz sodas on the scanner - the first student pays for everyone's "lunch" with his Oregon Trail card. My nostrils were flaring - when so many people really need nutritious food.

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Isn't the purpose of food stamps to provide sustenance for individuals or families needing food for survival? Soda is one, but not my only choice for non-allowable purchases. My most frustrating experience re: food stamps at the checkout counter was during the lunch period for a local high school. Male student and four of his friends each plop a candy bar and 20 oz sodas on the scanner - the first student pays for everyone's "lunch" with his Oregon Trail card. My nostrils were flaring - when so many people really need nutritious food.

 

This has been addressed over and over ad nauseum in this thread - it is NOT an abuse if it is legal. Right now it is legal and therefore, not an abuse.

 

My nostrils would flare if someone were paying that close of attention to what I was buying and how I paid for it!

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How is that saying your experiences are less? That is saying they are different, not less.

 

many of the underprivileged people in my neighborhood are elderly, there is a convenience store and a dollar general. Where should they grocery shop?

 

1. I was asked my opinion on a public forum. I gave it to the best of my ability with my experiences.

2. I haven't said your experience was less, I just asked for you to listen to mine and not discount it because it's not the same as yours. You are the one who said I had no experience.

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