unsinkable Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 That's not how the conversation went when my mother put her foot down, and not how it went when I had to deal with my MIL. It goes like this: Mom: I'm getting the kids a Wii for Christmas! Me: That's kind of you, Mom, but Billy is desperate for shoes. Mom: Well, I want him to have some fun like the other kids. Me: Mom, I can't dictate the gifts you give to Billy, but I would sell the Wii for the necessities Billy really needs. That's just how it is because DH can't find work. At that point, the relative decides to either get the Wii to be played with at her house because you are ungrateful, or gets mortally offended and cuts you out of their life for not pretending you are rich, or... they wake up to the realities of poverty and spend the money on a pair of shoes and a skateboard, which are more in keeping with the kid's home life and actual needs. :grouphug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiver0f10 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 (Thanks for saying that...almost everyone here has me on IGNORE :lol:) I'm sorry, did you say something? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dulcimeramy Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 But heaven forbid you allow your mom to buy him a pair of Nikes, make sure she knows that if she buys him luxury shoes that they will be returned for a $12 pair of K-Mart sneakers! Poor people shouldn't accept such luxurious gifts. :banghead: I have been in this situation and I did not allow my child the fancy shoes. He doesn't deserve name brand shoes! No one deserves name brand shoes! What more can I say? If someone bought him a pony I'd swap it for his braces. If someone gave him a Wii I'd sell it for his school books. Why is this hard to understand? What do you not understand? No one deserves luxuries! Some of us earn them or go without! Some of us refuse exorbitant gifts for our children if our children have outstanding actual physical needs because we believe the needs come before the wants. And givers who don't understand that are not counted as friends by my husband and me. This is old-school America. I didn't think these values up by myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Goldwater Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 The times that I have qualified for food stamps have corresponded with me (and/or my husband) having at least one, often 2 or more nearly minimum wage jobs. I didn't have food stamps last term, but my days were consumed with jobs and school from 8 a.m. until 10 p.m. Monday through Thursday and I also worked Fridays and Saturdays. Homemade bread was not a viable option. And thank you as well. Sounds as if the hard work and struggle has paid off for you, though (if my memory serves from other threads :)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl in NM Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 That's not how my grandparents & their parents lived. In my family, we believe in protecting children from the harsh realities of adult life. Every one of my grandparents would tell you that they grew up dirt poor, but not knowing it. Other family members sacrifice to provide for children in my family. What kind of toys did they have? What luxuries did they have? They didn't know they were poor because they got to eat every day. The sacrifice you are talking about is an older adult in the household not getting enough to eat so a child could. I agree with that. Food is a necessity. xbox is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 That's not how my grandparents & their parents lived. In my family, we believe in protecting children from the harsh realities of adult life. Every one of my grandparents would tell you that they grew up dirt poor, but not knowing it. Other family members sacrifice to provide for children in my family. My father used to say, "The first one up was the best one dressed." How could you hide that reality? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Goldwater Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I'm sorry, did you say something? :D There's one in every crowd :D:D:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dulcimeramy Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 That's not how my grandparents & their parents lived. In my family, we believe in protecting children from the harsh realities of adult life. Every one of my grandparents would tell you that they grew up dirt poor, but not knowing it. Other family members sacrifice to provide for children in my family. In my family the children know they are poor and they are thankful for every blessing. If someone goes without food, believe me it is the parents and not the children. Of course. Ditto for clothing and health care. This is our reality. Our children are being raised with a sense of who they are and an understanding that we earn what we have or we go without. They do not feel entitled to luxuries. They have a wonderful time with the lifestyle we can provide, thank God, only we have had to limit exposure to selfish and spoiled children because those attitudes are contagious. The children of the Great Depression nearly ruined this country by being determined to protect their children from all harsh realities of life. They spoiled them. Their children took it a step further an determined to protect their over-indulged children from ever feeling anything negative, and the cult of self-esteem was born. As a nation we are now reaping the whirlwind of the winds sown in those days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KristinaBreece Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I have been in this situation and I did not allow my child the fancy shoes. He doesn't deserve name brand shoes! No one deserves name brand shoes! What more can I say? If someone bought him a pony I'd swap it for his braces. If someone gave him a Wii I'd sell it for his school books. Why is this hard to understand? What do you not understand? No one deserves luxuries! Some of us earn them or go without! Some of us refuse exorbitant gifts for our children if our children have outstanding actual physical needs because we believe the needs come before the wants. And givers who don't understand that are not counted as friends by my husband and me. This is old-school America. I didn't think these values up by myself. I believe that when someone gives a gift, they are both giving and receiving a blessing. I would not presume to take that away from someone by telling them that my children or I would not accept that gift because we were too poor to justify owning the item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 One problem with severely limiting food stamps is that many people who receive food stamps do *not* live in communities with easy access to what most of us think of as a normal grocery store. When you are applying something to the entire community you must think beyond your own challenges and experiences. Fair enough. I'm willing to bet that if food stamp purchases were limited, inner city markets would change what they offered. Tara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl in NM Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I have been in this situation and I did not allow my child the fancy shoes. He doesn't deserve name brand shoes! No one deserves name brand shoes! What more can I say? If someone bought him a pony I'd swap it for his braces. If someone gave him a Wii I'd sell it for his school books. Why is this hard to understand? What do you not understand? No one deserves luxuries! Some of us earn them or go without! Some of us refuse exorbitant gifts for our children if our children have outstanding actual physical needs because we believe the needs come before the wants. And givers who don't understand that are not counted as friends by my husband and me. This is old-school America. I didn't think these values up by myself. YES!! Thank you! Where's the "standing ovation" emoticon?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 In my family the children know they are poor and they are thankful for every blessing. If someone goes without food, believe me it is the parents and not the children. Of course. Ditto for clothing and health care. This is our reality. Our children are being raised with a sense of who they are and an understanding that we earn what we have or we go without. They do not feel entitled to luxuries. They have a wonderful time with the lifestyle we can provide, thank God, only we have had to limit exposure to selfish and spoiled children because those attitudes are contagious. The children of the Great Depression nearly ruined this country by being determined to protect their children from all harsh realities of life. They spoiled them. Their children took it a step further an determined to protect their over-indulged children from ever feeling anything negative, and the cult of self-esteem was born. As a nation we are now reaping the whirlwind of the winds sown in those days. :iagree: I believe that when someone gives a gift, they are both giving and receiving a blessing. I would not presume to take that away from someone by telling them that my children or I would not accept that gift because we were too poor to justify owning the item. I believe these are the words of a person who has never known need. If it is a choice between bread or a wii grandma gave the children which will you choose? If it is a choice between selling yourself to feed your children or the wii given by great aunt Harriet, which will you choose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KristinaBreece Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 What kind of toys did they have? What luxuries did they have? They didn't know they were poor because they got to eat every day. The sacrifice you are talking about is an older adult in the household not getting enough to eat so a child could. I agree with that. Food is a necessity. xbox is not. From the stories I've gotten from my grandmother, they had nice clothing, they had skates, dolls, and guns-- the same things as other children at the time. It was a matter of their families finding a way to for their children to have that little bit of extra that made life more than just a struggle for the next month's rent. The sacrifices I'm talking about are making due with what they had when they needed it replaced so that they could give that little extra. My father used to say, "The first one up was the best one dressed." How could you hide that reality? :confused: That is not the reality that most people are facing these days. I don't know how to fix that one, but I do know that if I'm having a hard time affording a new $12 pair of Walmart pants for my son & my MIL gives him a pair of $30 pants from Children's Place, I'm not going to take those away from him. Because, don't you know, I could buy a pair of pants for him and make $18 off of them that I didn't have before. In my family the children know they are poor and they are thankful for every blessing. If someone goes without food, believe me it is the parents and not the children. Of course. Ditto for clothing and health care. This is our reality. Our children are being raised with a sense of who they are and an understanding that we earn what we have or we go without. They do not feel entitled to luxuries. They have a wonderful time with the lifestyle we can provide, thank God, only we have had to limit exposure to selfish and spoiled children because those attitudes are contagious. The children of the Great Depression nearly ruined this country by being determined to protect their children from all harsh realities of life. They spoiled them. Their children took it a step further an determined to protect their over-indulged children from ever feeling anything negative, and the cult of self-esteem was born. As a nation we are now reaping the whirlwind of the winds sown in those days. My Depression era grandparents taught me the value of hard work, the way to make a dollar go as far as it possibly can, and the importance of letting my children be children. They also taught me to be grateful for every night that I have a roof over my head because sometimes all that stands between homelessness and security is the grace of God. I thank God for that every day and am doing my best to teach my children the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl in NM Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 (edited) *I* could, yes, but I am a stay at home mom with the time and the skills to do so. Time and knowledge are there own form of wealth... and often the skills and knowledge are also inherited wealth. ...but many in our generation are having to learn these skills from scratch (giggle), because they weren't passed down to us. ...but not all of us have the time or resources to even figure out which skills we most need and how to acquire them. Some days I am astonished to realize how incredibly wealthy I am, and how unbelievably privileged. It is easy to forget that not everyone has these riches, and the solutions which would come, relatively easily, to my life might not work for others. :iagree: This is the kind of education I'd love to see. I know there are a few places that provide it. There were workshops in UT and a county extension office here in NM that shows people how to can anything they want to learn to can. You provide the food, they provide the knowledge and equipment. The lady is really good about letting you go in whenever it doesn't conflict with her schedule to can if you are doing it for your own welfare. Some people try to use it to can stuff they sell. :001_huh: It's a free service provided by the county. Edited June 2, 2011 by Cheryl in NM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KristinaBreece Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 :iagree: I believe these are the words of a person who has never known need. If it is a choice between bread or a wii grandma gave the children which will you choose? If it is a choice between selling yourself to feed your children or the wii given by great aunt Harriet, which will you choose? If it ever comes down to that choice, of course the hypothetical video game is gone. I don't believe, though, that if I have a struggle finding the money to pay for something that automatically precludes my kids from having a nice gift that someone else chooses to give them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 (edited) In my family the children know they are poor and they are thankful for every blessing. If someone goes without food, believe me it is the parents and not the children. Of course. Ditto for clothing and health care. This is our reality. Our children are being raised with a sense of who they are and an understanding that we earn what we have or we go without. They do not feel entitled to luxuries. They have a wonderful time with the lifestyle we can provide, thank God, only we have had to limit exposure to selfish and spoiled children because those attitudes are contagious. The children of the Great Depression nearly ruined this country by being determined to protect their children from all harsh realities of life. They spoiled them. Their children took it a step further an determined to protect their over-indulged children from ever feeling anything negative, and the cult of self-esteem was born. As a nation we are now reaping the whirlwind of the winds sown in those days. My kids know it also. But selling the Wii would only pay one small bill for one month. I'm not taking away the one group gift they've received from their grandparents, and the only gift the grandparents sent in five years. Bills will always be with us. We are the working poor. But the bills and the clothes are my responsibility. If the grandparents want to put towards that, then fine. But I won't blackmail them into it by telling them that paying for a bill is the only kind of gift we'll accept. I can agree if the family is practically homeless. But if the family is merely working poor...good grief. Let's go back to the days of telling the lower class they can only wear certain fabrics or certain shoes (even if they are second hand, you can't wear name brand!). Yes, if we were starving, it would be gone in a heartbeat. But we're not and instead we sacrifice what WE want first, not what was given to our children. No, the Wii is not something WE would buy (that is why the grandparents bought it). And btw, we only have the games it came with, because we are too thrifty to buy other games for it. I'd say that buying a Wii for eight kids was a pretty darn cheap gift compared to spending hundreds of dollars worth of gifts for each child, like many Americans do. Edited June 2, 2011 by mommaduck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KristinaBreece Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 :iagree: This is the kind of education I'd love to see. I know there are a few places that provide it. There were workshops in UT and a county extension office here in NM that shows people how to can anything they want to learn to can. You provide the food, they provide the knowledge and equipment. The lady is really good about letting you go in whenever it doesn't conflict with her schedule to can if you are doing it for your own welfare. Some people try to use it to can stuff they sell. Don't have a heart attack ;), but :iagree: with this as well. If these kinds of skills were taught on a large scale, that would help in large part to address the problem. I just haven't yet seen a viable way of providing that instruction to the masses, and of making sure they have the resources (mostly time & child care) to take advantage of the instruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl in NM Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 (edited) From the stories I've gotten from my grandmother, they had nice clothing, they had skates, dolls, and guns-- the same things as other children at the time. It was a matter of their families finding a way to for their children to have that little bit of extra that made life more than just a struggle for the next month's rent. The sacrifices I'm talking about are making due with what they had when they needed it replaced so that they could give that little extra. This is what I'm talking about. If you get a great deal on something, great! Reduce, reuse and recycle as much as possible. What you are talking about here is not the same as high end game systems. It's just not. ETA: And, again, the PP asked her family for money to help but they, instead, bought high-end items for the kids. Her family chose to not help her, but to indulge her children. They did not help her situation, they just helped the appearance of her situation. Edited June 2, 2011 by Cheryl in NM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dulcimeramy Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 My final word on this subject is that my children do get to be children. The definition of 'being children' does not mean roller skates, fancy shoes, trips to Disneyland, or even going to the movies or fast-food restaurants. My youngest son has never stepped foot inside a shopping mall or eaten a french fry from MacDonalds. He's never watched a movie in a theater or attended a minor league baseball game or skated in a roller rink. We can't afford those things! Nevertheless, he is indeed a child. He is a child, he is being a child, and he is having a wonderful childhood full of laughter, play, dreams, games, and fun. "Children being allowed to be children." If that is a code phrase for consumerism, I'm happy to be too poor to hold this perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dulcimeramy Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I want everyone to receive help if they need it, but I do disagree with the workers in a society going without necessities to provide those on aid with luxuries. And whoever can figure out how to stop our nation from operating that way without bringing about a civil war will indeed deserve the Peace Prize. May he show up soon, whoever he is. Sorry for contributing to thread derailment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KristinaBreece Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 This is what I'm talking about. If you get a great deal on something, great! Reduce, reuse and recycle as much as possible. What you are talking about here is not the same as high end game systems. It's just not. But I don't think that the fact that a family is scraping by is a legitimate reason to tell the extended family, "Sorry! No gifts for the kids unless they're things that we make enough money to justify owning." I just don't. I've had someone give me a gift of money (usually my parents at holiday time) and tell me that it is meant to be spent on myself rather than a bill or what have you. Should I tell my parents, "Sorry. I'm only accepting help with the bills for gifts right now, Dad. Ben's hours were cut over the winter." Even if that's what you believe I should do, I wouldn't do it. I might spend a portion of it on myself and put the rest toward household expenses, but I wouldn't reject a gift simply because it's not what I would have dictated if given the choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 (edited) First of all, I am on food stamps in CA. I am talking from my own personal experience. I am not saying that we should have less say, I too paid into the system when I was employed. I am saying that everyone who pays into the system should have a say. In CA there are many fast food restaurants that accept food stamps, and we are not in a "nutritional desert" by any means. Although, as you mentioned, we cannot buy "prepared" items, like a hot chicken, at the grocery store. As for amount of food stamps $? My children and I live well below the poverty level. We barley make ends meet each month because my separated husband pays me half what he is supposed to be paying in child support. We get just enough food stamps to live on oatmeal, pb&j's, and pasta EVERY DAY. Maybe its just cost of living in CA, but I can't imagine having enough extra to buy soda & such.:001_huh: It would mean reducing my children to ramen. From what I gather the California food stamp program does all use of food stamps at a select group of restaurants such as Subway which is aimed at the homeless who do not have stoves or refrigerators or those who are disabled and unable to cook for themselves. Seems like a good idea to me:D Restaurant meals program This program is designed to help households who do not have a place to store and cook food, or who may have a disability that makes preparing meals for themselves difficult. It began in 1978 when federal regulations gave states the option to allow elderly and disabled food stamp households to use food stamp coupons in authorized restaurants. In 1996, the program was expanded to include homeless food stamp households. [MPP §63-102(e)(2)(H); ACIN I-31-04] Under the program, prepared foods at participating restaurants and grocery stores can be purchased with an EBT card. Participating restaurants must meet requirements placed on them by the county and must be authorized to process food stamp transactions as a restaurant. Restaurants are prohibited from charging a sales tax or meal tax on prepared foods purchased with food stamp benefits. [7 C.F.R. § 274.10.] You may not be in a nutritional desert but to the homeless or disable it msay seem like a desert:(. Edited June 2, 2011 by priscilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatDilan Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Don't have a heart attack ;), but :iagree: with this as well. If these kinds of skills were taught on a large scale, that would help in large part to address the problem. I just haven't yet seen a viable way of providing that instruction to the masses, and of making sure they have the resources (mostly time & child care) to take advantage of the instruction. You guys just put me in the market for a teacher. I do make my own bread, but don't have the first clue how to can, and I'm a terrible homemaker. My mom went for the immediate gratification of keeping us out of the Kitchen while she was working and out from underfoot rather than the long term benefits of me knowing how to take care of my own home & family. :glare: Anyone in SoCal?:tongue_smilie: But seriously...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 That is not the reality that most people are facing these days. I don't know how to fix that one, but I do know that if I'm having a hard time affording a new $12 pair of Walmart pants for my son & my MIL gives him a pair of $30 pants from Children's Place, I'm not going to take those away from him. Because, don't you know, I could buy a pair of pants for him and make $18 off of them that I didn't have before. /QUOTE] Why do you see the need to add these snide little comments? You were the one who wrote that the adults in the family protected the children from knowing they were living in poverty. My dad's experience was that there wasn't enough decent clothes for all the children in his family to wear at the same time. There was no protecting the children from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen in PA Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I personally know people who abuse the system, but don't assume we all are. I have stated before that there are factors that one just cannot know about the person using food stamps. Foster parents get food stamps -- should they not buy treats? Should parents who work multiple jobs but still qualify not be allowed to buy convenience foods so they can feed their family quickly between shifts or jobs? Should food stamp recipients living in motels or with stoves they can't afford to fix not be allowed to buy convenience foods? The requirements for households without minor children are actually quite stringent -- but can we really say that a child in a qualifying family can't have cake and ice cream on his birthday when his parents have budgeted their allocated amount to make sure that can happen? Soda being disallowed is fine by me, but I do fear the slippery slope of judgment that may follow -- especially after reading comments here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 :iagree: This is the kind of education I'd love to see. I know there are a few places that provide it. There were workshops in UT and a county extension office here in NM that shows people how to can anything they want to learn to can. You provide the food, they provide the knowledge and equipment. The lady is really good about letting you go in whenever it doesn't conflict with her schedule to can if you are doing it for your own welfare. Some people try to use it to can stuff they sell. :001_huh: It's a free service provided by the county. Again, many people on assistance are working. Usually long hours on at least one job, often more, and at wages that can't sustain a family. When I was on food stamps, the office I had to go to (and this is in suburban Houston) was more than 30 miles away. They allowed a phone interview, but documentation, etc. had to be done by scanning, mail, fax. Learning to cook from scratch was not something I had time to learn, let alone do once I learned it. The assumption that recipients have copious amounts of non prodcutive time is erroneous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KristinaBreece Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 My final word on this subject is that my children do get to be children. The definition of 'being children' does not mean roller skates, fancy shoes, trips to Disneyland, or even going to the movies or fast-food restaurants. My youngest son has never stepped foot inside a shopping mall or eaten a french fry from MacDonalds. He's never watched a movie in a theater or attended a minor league baseball game or skated in a roller rink. We can't afford those things! Nevertheless, he is indeed a child. He is a child, he is being a child, and he is having a wonderful childhood full of laughter, play, dreams, games, and fun. "Children being allowed to be children." If that is a code phrase for consumerism, I'm happy to be too poor to hold this perspective. I meant not having to worry about family finances when they're not his responsibility. I don't believe in making a child shoulder that kind of a burden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiver0f10 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 *I* could, yes, but I am a stay at home mom with the time and the skills to do so. Time and knowledge are there own form of wealth... and often the skills and knowledge are also inherited wealth. ...but many in our generation are having to learn these skills from scratch (giggle), because they weren't passed down to us. ...but not all of us have the time or resources to even figure out which skills we most need and how to acquire them. Some days I am astonished to realize how incredibly wealthy I am, and how unbelievably privileged. It is easy to forget that not everyone has these riches, and the solutions which would come, relatively easily, to my life might not work for others. Yes. No one taught me how to cook or bake. I taught myself and I am grateful to be able to teach my children. As far as time it really doesn't take that long and with bread machines it's even easier. And you can get bread machines off freecycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 My final word on this subject is that my children do get to be children. The definition of 'being children' does not mean roller skates, fancy shoes, trips to Disneyland, or even going to the movies or fast-food restaurants. My youngest son has never stepped foot inside a shopping mall or eaten a french fry from MacDonalds. He's never watched a movie in a theater or attended a minor league baseball game or skated in a roller rink. We can't afford those things! Nevertheless, he is indeed a child. He is a child, he is being a child, and he is having a wonderful childhood full of laughter, play, dreams, games, and fun. "Children being allowed to be children." If that is a code phrase for consumerism, I'm happy to be too poor to hold this perspective. I get that and understand that sentiment but food stamps are not luxuries. We have not cable/satellite TV, no cell phone plans except for basic pre-paid flip phone for emergencies, no big screen TV, no latest gadgets, no new cars, etc. We have lots of hand me downs, birthdays at home with family only, been to movies maybe 2 or 3 times with ds at museums, no buying movies, etc. But again food stamps are not luxuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dulcimeramy Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I get that and understand that sentiment but food stamps are not luxuries. We have not cable/satellite TV, no cell phone plans except for basic pre-paid flip phone for emergencies, no big screen TV, no latest gadgets, no new cars, etc. We have lots of hand me downs, birthdays at home with family only, been to movies maybe 2 or 3 times with ds at museums, no buying movies, etc. But again food stamps are not luxuries. No one, including myself, has said that food stamps are luxuries. I did say that I don't understand a life involving flat-screen televisions, expensive gaming systems, high-priced clothing, and food stamps, but that is not the same as saying that food stamps are luxuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl in NM Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 But I don't think that the fact that a family is scraping by is a legitimate reason to tell the extended family, "Sorry! No gifts for the kids unless they're things that we make enough money to justify owning." I just don't. I've had someone give me a gift of money (usually my parents at holiday time) and tell me that it is meant to be spent on myself rather than a bill or what have you. Should I tell my parents, "Sorry. I'm only accepting help with the bills for gifts right now, Dad. Ben's hours were cut over the winter." Even if that's what you believe I should do, I wouldn't do it. I might spend a portion of it on myself and put the rest toward household expenses, but I wouldn't reject a gift simply because it's not what I would have dictated if given the choice. That's your personal choice. The PP has asked her family for financial help and they provided high-end toys and clothes for the kids instead. So I suggested instead of feeling saddled and unhelped that she sell those things. It is a choice for every person. I responded to one person in particular to their specific case and all of a sudden I'm saying that poor people shouldn't have nice/fun things. When family members give me a monetary gift and tell me to spend it on myself I say thank you and pay a bill with it. It's my choice. I might buy an expensive candy or get some fast food, but the rest goes where it's needed most. If the choice was have the kids play wii or sell it for food, I'd sell it for food in a heartbeat, no matter who bought it for them. That's MY choice and MY viewpoint. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I've not advocated changing any laws so that poor people can't have nice/fun things, I've just stated my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KristinaBreece Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 That is not the reality that most people are facing these days. I don't know how to fix that one, but I do know that if I'm having a hard time affording a new $12 pair of Walmart pants for my son & my MIL gives him a pair of $30 pants from Children's Place, I'm not going to take those away from him. Because, don't you know, I could buy a pair of pants for him and make $18 off of them that I didn't have before. Why do you see the need to add these snide little comments? You were the one who wrote that the adults in the family protected the children from knowing they were living in poverty. My dad's experience was that there wasn't enough decent clothes for all the children in his family to wear at the same time. There was no protecting the children from that. I didn't mean it to be snide, or to make light of your father's situation. I meant only to illustrate the slope we find ourselves on. No matter how small the gift, someone can always find a cheaper way to do it. I can't see nitpicking at every. single. item. that crosses into my child's life always looking for the way to make it cost less, or to make that money be spent how I would have spent it. I also said that I have no idea how I would deal with that situation. I also wanted to put across that that is NOT the reality most people are dealing with today. The struggles are different. I am truly sorry if I offended you, as that was so far from my intention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatDilan Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 First let me say, I am not affiliated with them in any way, except in so far as they have been a lifesaver some months. Angel Food Ministries http://www.angelfoodministries.com/ - Provides highly discounted food/grocery packages. - There is no income requirement. - No strings attached. - They take EBT. (or cash, or check, or credit) - And they have distribution locations all over the U.S. Just thought someone out there might benefit from this info.:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dulcimeramy Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I meant not having to worry about family finances when they're not his responsibility. I don't believe in making a child shoulder that kind of a burden. Your oldest is 4. As long as there is food and warmth, small children can indeed believe that they are rich! BTDT. You can't hide financial struggle from older kids and teens, though. They'll see it. Actually, it is worse for them not to be informed and included at that point. They worry more if they don't know all the ways you can be counted on to manage. What remains after they realize the truth is to see how the home training pays off. Does he sulk and whine? Or does he do as my son did, and go out and find as many lawn-mowing jobs and music gigs as possible to help himself and his family? The latter response comes from being realistic, frugal, and deliberate about finances when they were younger. They can look back and see those successes and learn from them as they face a future as teens in a lower-income family. Life is to be shared. Joys and struggles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindergretta Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I have seen so many variations of these threads. I am always :confused: at them, though. No one ever changes their mind or manages to change someone else's mind. So we go round and round trying to convince others that we are the one with the "right" attitude, "right" solutions, "right" ideals, "right" fill - in - the - blank. <sigh> I do find it hilarious that the minor fraction of the federal budget that makes up the food stamp portion causes SO many people to get SO wound up. :001_huh: You could entirely eliminate the program and it wouldn't make a dent. But, we debate away, regardless of insulting people and hurting feelings. Is it to feel holier - than - thou over superior choices? :( It feels like "let's spend $10 to save $1." Of the masses on food stamps, most are honest, hard working people trying to bridge a gap. There are a few here and there that are scamming the system, taking advantage, etc. But we hyper - focus on them to the detriment of the majority who aren't doing anything wrong, just struggling to get by. :confused: And no matter *what* rules and regulations are in place, there will be cheaters and scammers. They will find a way to exist within the confines of any given system. But penalizing the very major majority over the garbage of the very few minority is sad. I know several families on food stamps who had a parent lose a job, be unable to find another one, and go back to school for long term job prospect improvement. That is a *good* choice. That is a *positive* for not only that family, but for society at large. Why turn it into such an ugly thing that they are using social helps to get back on their feet, stronger than before?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I didn't mean it to be snide, or to make light of your father's situation. I meant only to illustrate the slope we find ourselves on. No matter how small the gift, someone can always find a cheaper way to do it. I can't see nitpicking at every. single. item. that crosses into my child's life always looking for the way to make it cost less, or to make that money be spent how I would have spent it. I also said that I have no idea how I would deal with that situation. I also wanted to put across that that is NOT the reality most people are dealing with today. The struggles are different. I am truly sorry if I offended you, as that was so far from my intention. Thank you so much for apologizing. It does mean a lot to me. :grouphug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindergretta Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Oh, and in terms of Kool Aid, it is *fantastic* for dying play silks!! Fun and easy and really pretty. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl in NM Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Again, many people on assistance are working. Usually long hours on at least one job, often more, and at wages that can't sustain a family. When I was on food stamps, the office I had to go to (and this is in suburban Houston) was more than 30 miles away. They allowed a phone interview, but documentation, etc. had to be done by scanning, mail, fax. Learning to cook from scratch was not something I had time to learn, let alone do once I learned it. The assumption that recipients have copious amounts of non prodcutive time is erroneous. I understand that. That is not everyone's situation. In a 2 parent home, oftentimes 1 of the parent's can leave a job and stay home with just a few cutbacks. Almost half of the wages of the second parent's job go to the cost of working. That's not always the case. No one case will fit everyone. --------- Until Dh got a raise last month we qualified for food stamps. We are low-middle income. We did not apply, we re-arranged our budget and did without material possessions so we could buy food. This is not everyone's situation. I consider it my job to be frugal. I make items I could buy. We garden and I preserve the harvest. We raise chickens and have fresh eggs and chicken meat. We sell some of the eggs and give some away. We help people when we can by giving them food from our pantry or giving them our expertise. Dh continuously helps people with their computers and doesn't charge. I keep the finances for our church, when I did this for a living, it would have cost the church $300-$400 a month. We give of our time and resources to help others. If everyone did that we wouldn't need the government programs. People would try to better their positions in life so that they, too, could give back to others. People feel better if they have the sense that they've "earned" your charity, by whatever means they have to offer. I trade babysitting for Ds's upper level math. I feel like I get the better end of the deal because I can't afford the math class but I can certainly homeschool the teacher's 2 kids 1 day a week. She feels like she gets the better end of the deal because she has someone she can trust homeschool her kids for that day instead of them missing a day of school every week. We can all help each other; that's the way it should be and that's the way it was when our government was put into place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 First let me say, I am not affiliated with them in any way, except in so far as they have been a lifesaver some months. Angel Food Ministries http://www.angelfoodministries.com/ - Provides highly discounted food/grocery packages. - There is no income requirement. - No strings attached. - They take EBT. (or cash, or check, or credit) - And they have distribution locations all over the U.S. Just thought someone out there might benefit from this info.:D I used my food stamps to pay for my Angel Food. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I usually get the fruit and veggie boxes from AFM with FS. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Doesn't this all come down to corn and sugar being subsidized (sp?)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassyscrapperinid Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 we bake our own bread for about $0.90/loaf...lost 8 unwanted pounds just by making that switch alone...just sayin'. hey thats awesome! so where's the recipe?? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindergretta Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Also, out of curiousity, for those who want to see "junk food" banned from being purshcased with food stamps, how would you "react" (internally, as I doubt anyone here would actually *react* in a grocery store!) if you saw a person in line in front of you buy fruits and veg with FS and then go on to purchase cookies and pop with cash? I can kind of see that thread starting like this: Do you KNOW what I saw today?! Someone used food stamps to get food and then bought junk with cash! If they have the cash for junk, they have the cash for food!!!! Just sayin'... (And my dd10 wears the *nicest* hand me downs EVER. I have a friend who has a friend who loves to shop for pricey cothing for her dd. When she outgrows it, my dd is the recipient, lucky girl! ;) But one could get confused if they saw her while I used my FS card. And we hardly receive any benefits, at all. Dh works LONG hours... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassyscrapperinid Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 You could bake it for @ $1 a loaf. I feel the need to add that the post I replied to regarding the bread did not say to buy the ingredients for the bread and bake it yourself- she said that food stamps should be approved for healthy foods to include whole grain breads. Not the ingredients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassyscrapperinid Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 (Thanks for saying that...almost everyone here has me on IGNORE :lol:) I wasnt ignoring... :lol: I wasnt talking about making the bread from scratch and neither was the poster I was replying too. But I think the recipe would be appreciated! I have been looking for a good, inexpensive bread recipe. Thanks! :001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Also, out of curiousity, for those who want to see "junk food" banned from being purshcased with food stamps, how would you "react" (internally, as I doubt anyone here would actually *react* in a grocery store!) if you saw a person in line in front of you buy fruits and veg with FS and then go on to purchase cookies and pop with cash? I can kind of see that thread starting like this: Do you KNOW what I saw today?! Someone used food stamps to get food and then bought junk with cash! If they have the cash for junk, they have the cash for food!!!! Just sayin'... (And my dd10 wears the *nicest* hand me downs EVER. I have a friend who has a friend who loves to shop for pricey cothing for her dd. When she outgrows it, my dd is the recipient, lucky girl! ;) But one could get confused if they saw her while I used my FS card. And we hardly receive any benefits, at all. Dh works LONG hours... ) :iagree: (and my kids get a lot of nice hand me downs also. Enough that I've had to pare down and pass clothes onto other families) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassyscrapperinid Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 1 c. milk1/4 c. molasses 1 tbsp. butter 1/2c. warm water, 105-115 degrees 4 c. sifted all purpose flour 2 tbsp. milk for glaze 1 1/2 c. cold water 2 tbsp. light brown sugar 1 tbsp. salt 2 pkgs. active dry yeast 5 c. unsifted whole wheat flour Bring milk and cold water to a boil in a small saucepan. Off heat, mix in molasses, sugar, butter and salt; cool to lukewarm. Place lukewarm water in a warm large mixing bowl and sprinkle in yeast. Stir cooled mixture into yeast, then beat in all purpose flour, 1 cup at a time. mix in whole wheat flour, 1 cup at a time. Place dough in a buttered large bowl, cover with cloth and let rise about 1 hour in a warm draft free place until doubled in bulk. Punch dough down and stir briefly (it will be stiff). Divide dough in half and pat firmly into 2 well greased 9"x5"x3" loaf pans, rounding tops a little; brush tops with milk to glaze. Cover and let rise about 45 minutes until almost doubled in bulk. When loaves are risen, preheat oven to 400 degrees. Bake 20 minutes, reduce oven to 375 degrees and bake 45 to 50 minutes longer or until richly browned and hollow sounding when tapped. Turn loaves out immediately and cool on wire racks. Any more problems I need to solve? Thanks!!;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I understand that. --------- Until Dh got a raise last month we qualified for food stamps. We are low-middle income. We did not apply, we re-arranged our budget and did without material possessions so we could buy food. This is not everyone's situation. I consider it my job to be frugal. I make items I could buy. We garden and I preserve the harvest. We raise chickens and have fresh eggs and chicken meat. We sell some of the eggs and give some away. We help people when we can by giving them food from our pantry or giving them our expertise. Dh continuously helps people with their computers and doesn't charge. I keep the finances for our church, when I did this for a living, it would have cost the church $300-$400 a month. We give of our time and resources to help others. If everyone did that we wouldn't need the government programs. People would try to better their positions in life so that they, too, could give back to others. People feel better if they have the sense that they've "earned" your charity, by whatever means they have to offer. I trade babysitting for Ds's upper level math. I feel like I get the better end of the deal because I can't afford the math class but I can certainly homeschool the teacher's 2 kids 1 day a week. She feels like she gets the better end of the deal because she has someone she can trust homeschool her kids for that day instead of them missing a day of school every week. We can all help each other; that's the way it should be and that's the way it was when our government was put into place. I am flabbergasted at this post. I could list the activities I (and my DH) participated in while on assistance, but I won't. What I will share is that my perspective on living responsibly, people "in the system", people "in need", and their lifestyles changed radically in the last 5 years. I no longer assume that my choices are rare, superior, or that others make lesser choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiver0f10 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 (edited) I wasnt ignoring... :lol: I wasnt talking about making the bread from scratch and neither was the poster I was replying too. But I think the recipe would be appreciated! I have been looking for a good, inexpensive bread recipe. Thanks! :001_smile: Here is mine if you are interested: 6 cups warm water 1 cup olive oil (can use butter or regular veg oil) 1 cup honey (can use sugar instead and can use less of either) 3 tbsp yeast 1tbsp salt 1/4 cup wheat gluten @15 cups whole wheat flour (I grind my own but you can use store bought) Mix all the ingredients and half the flour. Then knead in the rest of the flour, a little at a time, until a soft dough. Cover and let rise until double. Punch down, shape into loaves and put into 4 loaf pans. Cover and let rise @ 45 min and bake for 30 min at 350. Brush with butter when warm ( not necessary but sooo good lol) I have a bosch but used a KA for years. This could also be done by hand. Edited June 2, 2011 by Quiver0f10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassyscrapperinid Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Here is mine if you are interested: 6 cups warm water 1 cup olive oil (can use butter or regular veg oil) 1 cup honey (can use sugar instead and can use less of either) 3 tbsp yeast 1tbsp salt 1/4 cup wheat gluten @15 cups whole wheat flour (I grind my own but you can use store bought) Mix all the ingredients and half the flour. Then knead in the rest of the flour, a little at a time, until a soft dough. Cover and let rise until double. Punch down, shape into loaves and put into 4 loaf pans. Cover and let rise @ 45 min and bake for 30 min at 350. Brush with butter when warm ( not necessary but sooo good lol I have a bosch but used a KA for years. This could also be done by hand. Thanks! :001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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