cathmom Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I just looked this up on Father Z's blog. What Parrot said. I think I'll go with tradition on this one and see if I can do a three in one. If a child converts who is 7 or older, he or she is given all three sacraments at once. But children who have been baptized as babies and made their First Communion at the age of reason must wait nearly 10 more years...it's aggravating to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I just looked this up on Father Z's blog. What Parrot said. I think I'll go with tradition on this one and see if I can do a three in one. Personally, I'd love to see the sacraments given to infants again. Too often they are looked at as a rite of passage - something to be gotten through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) Up until about the 5th century the sacraments were given together. During the middle ages two things happened - great emphasis on infant baptism and dioceses in general grew. The priests were able to baptize and give first communion, but the bishop must give the sacrament of confirmation. Eventually infant communion stopped - it is unknown exactly why. But when one couldn't be confirmed without confirmation, confirmation started falling by the wayside. Pope Pius X was the one that pushed for Communion about the age of reason (7ish). The Second Vatican Council called for the order of the sacraments to be restored. Slowly that is happening. Okay, this makes sense. (our Priest has to send information to the Bishop before a wedding, a chrismation, a baptism, etc...so the Priest handles it, but the Bishop is who gives approval). Justamouse, thank you for the link. Edited May 27, 2011 by mommaduck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I have a question and I really hope it doesn't upset anyone or turn ugly. (please, please, please) Is one's opinon on abortion a deal breaker in regards to converting to Catholicism or Orhodoxy? I'm very intersted in both and want to observe a service in both. My dh agreed to be open and look into with me if I looked more into the above. You can pm me if you're worried some might turn this into a debate. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquinas Academy Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I have a question and I really hope it doesn't upset anyone or turn ugly. (please, please, please) Is one's opinon on abortion a deal breaker in regards to converting to Catholicism or Orhodoxy? I'm very intersted in both and want to observe a service in both. My dh agreed to be open and look into with me if I looked more into the above. You can pm me if you're worried some might turn this into a debate. Thanks! I thought RC and EO had the same views on abortion. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I have a question and I really hope it doesn't upset anyone or turn ugly. (please, please, please) Is one's opinon on abortion a deal breaker in regards to converting to Catholicism or Orhodoxy? I'm very intersted in both and want to observe a service in both. My dh agreed to be open and look into with me if I looked more into the above. You can pm me if you're worried some might turn this into a debate. Thanks! Do you mean "does one have to be against abortion to be RC or EO?" or do you mean "did any of us use that as a measuring tool when deciding to become RC or EO?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristinannie Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I completely agree about CCD being ridiculous. I went to CCD every year until I graduation high school and really didn't learn anything of importance. I think a disservice was done to my generation in that manner. I have just now start catechising (sp???) myself by reading a lot of books and studying the Bible. I feel like I know Jesus really well from attending mass for my entire life, but otherwise, I really don't know much at all! I definitely want this to be different with my kids. Even most of the Catholic schools have stopped truly catechising the kids. Our local school gets state funding and has all secular materials. This is one of the main reasons I want to HS. My kids go to RE for now because I want them to meet other kids, but all they do is color a picture and read a Bible story (that they are already familiar with). As far as the abortion debate, what exactly is your stance on abortion? Do you not believe that life begins at conception? Do you believe that women should have the choice anyway even if you believe the baby is a life? I am not sure if those views would cause your conversion to be held up, but I would really think about why you believe what you believe. Then you can know exactly where you are out of line with Catholic teaching. My old priest told me that we are all to strive to be like Jesus, but that we all fall short in some areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I thought RC and EO had the same views on abortion. :confused: They do. They are both 100% against abortion. However, there are members in each that do not practice what the Churches teach (just as with birth control). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Do you mean "does one have to be against abortion to be RC or EO?" or do you mean "did any of us use that as a measuring tool when deciding to become RC or EO?" Does one have to be against it in all cases, even in the case of rape/incest? Some things I read online seemed to say you must be against it in ALL cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristinannie Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I think the main problem would be if you had an abortion. If you have had an abortion, you would need to go to confession before becoming Catholic. Can a non-Catholic go to confession? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannah C. Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Does one have to be against it in all cases, even in the case of rape/incest? Some things I read online seemed to say you must be against it in ALL cases. The Catholic Church is against abortion in all cases, including those of rape and incest. Abortion is allowed only in cases such as ectopic pregnancy, and even then, I believe the type of medical treatment could matter in whether it would be okay or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Does one have to be against it in all cases, even in the case of rape/incest? Some things I read online seemed to say you must be against it in ALL cases. Yes, that would be the Churches' stand. A child is still a child even if it was conceived in a case of rape or incest. It's still a life and that life is to be preserved. A child can always be given up for adoption (I encourage people to read the book The Atonement Child by Francine Rivers...it is about just such a case aka conception due to rape). Also, the EO would agree with the RC on cases of ectopic pregnancies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannah C. Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I think the main problem would be if you had an abortion. If you have had an abortion, you would need to go to confession before becoming Catholic. Can a non-Catholic go to confession? Actually, everyone who becomes Catholic has to go to confession before receiving the sacraments. And every Catholic must go to confession before their First Communion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquinas Academy Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) They do. They are both 100% against abortion. However, there are members in each that do not practice what the Churches teach (just as with birth control). Thank you. :) I misunderstood the PP's question. Edited May 27, 2011 by Aquinas Academy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalknot Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 This has been a most informative, interesting thread! I've been exposed to so much the past week with all of these Catholic threads, and you all have really given me some good phrases and things to research further. (I agreed to raise my kids Catholic, but I don't come from a Christian background so many of the nuances and much of the history of the Christian church/s are lost on me. We live in the Bible Belt, and I'm learning that my kids need to know these things because their faith is often under fire by the majority non-Catholic Christians here.) Thank you, all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristinannie Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Actually, everyone who becomes Catholic has to go to confession before receiving the sacraments. And every Catholic must go to confession before their First Communion. As soon as I posted that, I started to think that they must go to confession before converting. Thanks for clearing that up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) I have a question and I really hope it doesn't upset anyone or turn ugly. (please, please, please) Is one's opinon on abortion a deal breaker in regards to converting to Catholicism or Orhodoxy? I'm very intersted in both and want to observe a service in both. My dh agreed to be open and look into with me if I looked more into the above. You can pm me if you're worried some might turn this into a debate. Thanks! If you want to read an interesting POV, Karen Edminston (Catholic author), a pro choice Atheist who became Catholic, wrote a series of posts on her blog about her conversion and how her views changed from pro choice to pro life. At the end of each post is the next links. She really went through each thought, why she thought that way, why she changed. Go, even as you may not agree with everything. Edited May 27, 2011 by justamouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyR Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I guess I figure that if people or a church use shorthand like this, then they shouldn't be surprised if others take them at their word. In fact, it would be surprising if people didn't. But in answer to your question, I have indeed known Catholics who only ask the saints to pray for them, but I have also had some discussions in which it is clearly stated that these other adult Catholics pray directly to the saints and believe that the saints themselves take action to aid them, action other than joining them in prayer. In fact, this has been more the norm than the exception during my high school, college, and young adult days. Adults who recently converted to Catholicism never have this view, which I have interpreted as RCIA being much more clearly conveyed than it or the church's teachings used to be. I was baptized Catholic, went to Catholic schools growing up but never finished recieveing the rest of the sacraments until , this year. The reason those in RCIA don't coming out believing some of the things other cradle Catholics may is , well , because we went through RCIA. Most people think that their learning is over once they've recieved Confirmation. But it is not. I know our church always encourages their members to take the RCIA course. It is a much meatier course and it really gets into the real 'meat' of the Catholic faith. The reason there is so many myths or misconceptions is because of lack of understanding the faith. I would say converts and those who go through RCIA as cradle Catholics will know and understand their faith much more than those who just went through Baptism, Reconciliation, Communion and Confirmation as a child growing up. Their knowledge of the faith is still pretty limited even after Confirmation. By the way the things I've heard myself: 1.Catholics worship Mary ( we do not. We honor her. We honor our military for keeping us safe, we honor our own father and mothers , why should we not honor the mother of our Lord Jesus Christ?) 2.Catholics worship Statues ( we do not. Those beautiful pieces of art are our pictures. They remind us each time we step foot in the church as to why we are there in the first place) 3.Catholics aren't saved ( yes we are. We believe in being born again every single time we recieve the body and blood of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, and recieveing the Sacraments left by Him). 4.Your not supposed to confess to a priest , it should be between you and God( of course we can ask God for our forgiveness but its also nice to hear those words that you are forgiven. I don't know of any human being on earth that doesn't want to hear those words. Sadly God is not hear on earth and the last time I knew it we can't hear him with our ears. The priest is our Jesus with skin on. He isn't Jesus. But its nice to have someone there to speak those words out of their mouth. Its God who forgives you. Also think of it this way. Jesus died on the cross. Think of the shape of the cross (+) from bottom to top its you and God, but we are also responsible for our church family, across is us and our community. Which makes the shape of the cross. I am now finally at peace in my life. I couldn't be happier that I have finally come home to the Catholic church. My husband was brought up Protestant though went to Catholic School all his school life. We were received into the church this Easter Vigil as a family and it was one of the most amazing experiences of our lives. We are happy and proud to be Catholic and all those things I heard growing up as a child ( my parents converted to Protestant faith so I was brought up that way growing up) have all been laid to rest. I finally know what it is and what it means to be Catholic. For anyone who wants to know more about the Catholic faith I think the Catholics Come Home website does a great job explaining the faith and it answers tons of questions http://www.catholicscomehome.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avila Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) I just wanted to encourage anybody who wants to know more and feels like this is something worth pursuing to go to a Mass. Don't take communion, but go and observe and see if it is something you want to look into further. Don't just trust what we have said. Get a copy of the Catechism and read it for yourself. Look for reputable sources like catholic.com and EWTN and find answers to your questions. Get copies of Surprised by the Truth books and watch The Journey Home TV show and see if any of their stories resound with you. We also have a yearlong class called RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) at parishes that is specifically meant to be a place to receive instruction and have your questions answered. Going doesn't obligate you to becoming Catholic. It just provides a place to start the journey and work through your questions if you feel drawn to the Catholic Church. If you don't feel drawn to the Church, that is ok too. I hope we can offer each other support and respect anyhow. God bless! Edited May 27, 2011 by Asenik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Actually, everyone who becomes Catholic has to go to confession before receiving the sacraments. And every Catholic must go to confession before their First Communion. Not necessarily. For a sin to be a mortal sin three conditions must be met. The sin must be a grave matter, it must be deliberate and it must have full consent of the will. If a non-Catholic wishes to join the Church he does not have to receive absolution if his sins did not meet all three conditions. In the case of abortion, it is pretty widely known that the church teaches against it. A non-Catholic who has had an abortion or knowingly assisted another to have an abortion (even driving a friend to the clinic) should be confessed. If the person abhors that sin he/she should be given absolution and can freely continue on with coming into full communion with the Church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyR Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) Actually, everyone who becomes Catholic has to go to confession before receiving the sacraments. And every Catholic must go to confession before their First Communion. Those who are Catholic , yes , should go to Confession. But those newly baptised into the church do not have to have Confession first to recieve Communion. Their sins are washed away by their Baptism. BUT with that said after the Easter Vigil they should go to Confession. Remember the priest is not there to judge you , scold you or anything like that. They won't announce to the congregation that you would have had an abortion. It is against Cannon law for them to ever disclose a Confession. There have been many priests that have done many wrong things but there is nothing , not one recording of a priest ever breaking this law. Ever. Confession has actually been a soup to the soul. I'm not sure if its the priest we have but he is such a wonderful guy. That I don't think anyone doesn't have a face to face Confession with him. Actually our experience is like just talking with someone to get it all out in the open. He makes us feel so good and so confident of ourselves that he makes you want to go again. LOL. Can a non Catholic go to Confession... well that's a little iffy. Here is a link that answers that question better than I could.. http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=19886 My 13 yr old loves going so much that she's gone three times so far since her First Reconcilation . Two weeks after the first time she was the first in line at the Middle School Retreat. She said it was like talking to her grandpa. LOL. One thing is for certain my daughters definitely don't dread going and neither do my husband or I. I wish more people were like that. Edited May 27, 2011 by TracyR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Does one have to be against it in all cases, even in the case of rape/incest? Some things I read online seemed to say you must be against it in ALL cases. Yes, the Church teaches against abortion in all cases. Every life has the right to exist. One cannot hold the sins of the father against the child. I think the main problem would be if you had an abortion. If you have had an abortion, you would need to go to confession before becoming Catholic. Can a non-Catholic go to confession? Yes, a non-Catholic can go to confession. I would recommend that if one does not believe that one will receive absolution one not waste his/her or the priest's time. Also let the priest know that one is a non-Catholic. Not that the priest will not give absolution, but he will want to make sure that one is 1.) making a good confession and 2.) actually in need of reconciliation. Again, for a sin to be mortal (in need of absolution) three conditions must be met (see above.) Otherwise the sin is venial. One is encouraged to confess venial sins, but in reality those are forgiven during the Mass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquinas Academy Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 If you want to read an interesting POV, Karen Edminston (Catholic author), a pro choice Atheist who became Catholic, wrote a series of posts on her blog about how her conversion and how her views changed from pro choice to pro life. At the end of each post is the next links. Go, even as you may not agree with everything. :iagree:I really enjoyed reading these. Jennifer Fulwiler, another pro-choice atheist convert to Catholicism, also wrote about becoming pro-life (she had a talk too, but I can't seem to find it now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 That I don't think anyone doesn't have a face to face Confession with him. And speaking of face-to-face Reconciliation, I've heard recently that there is a growing movement to phase out face-to-face in the Reconciliation room. A number of priests are growing concerned about being alone in a room with women and children. For their own protection they are opening confessionals back up. That makes it pretty hard for accusations to be lodged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) :iagree:I really enjoyed reading these. Jennifer Fulwiler, another pro-choice atheist convert to Catholicism, also wrote about becoming pro-life (she had a talk too, but I can't seem to find it now). Oh yes! That's another great one. Actually, that's the amazing one that I really connected with. Thanks for the reminder. A talk? I'll have to look for that, too. What I would stress to you FLmom, is that there is no finish line except when we're put in the grave-meaning, some changes of heart take a lifetime. It may never happen, it may happen and surprise you. But it shouldn't keep you from visiting and joining where you feel led. Edited May 27, 2011 by justamouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyR Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 In my diocese, it's 2 years of Confirmation prep, with a new rule that you must attend RE for the year prior to beginning, so you aren't getting confirmed until 10th or 11th grade, I can't remember which. I really hate what Confirmation prep has become - it seems like just a way to blackmail families into continuing to attend RE. The classes are full of kids who don't want to be there. I'm seriously thinking of just having my dc wait until they turn 18 to be confirmed so we don't have to jump through hoops. Believe it or not this isn't so much the church but more from pressure from the parents. I was talking with our Deacon about this during our RCIA and I'm not sure how it really got brought up. But he was discussing with my husband and I that its more pressure of the parents and not the church. The church obviously wants you to come into Confirmation ready and willing. He said to many times they have children there that get dropped off and don't even want to be there. They would really much rather have them come to them ready and willing to recieve the Sacrament of Confirmation. But so many parents think their child HAS to go through this and HAS to have it done at a certain age that they cave into the parents demands. Your child can easily take the RCIA (which really is a much more appropriate class to take because it really gets to the core of what the Catholic faith is truly about) and recieve confirmation. I know I will be using what I have from our RCIA along with books and so forth to make sure my girls are properly catechised. But I also don't want them to go through Confirmation until THEY feel they are ready. Not because I want them too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 IThe reason those in RCIA don't coming out believing some of the things other cradle Catholics may is , well , because we went through RCIA. Most people think that their learning is over once they've recieved Confirmation. But it is not. I know our church always encourages their members to take the RCIA course. It is a much meatier course and it really gets into the real 'meat' of the Catholic faith. Ahem, well, I'm glad RCIA was wonderful for you. In my parish we have one woman who does RCIA for both children and adults and she does not believe in the doctrines of the Catholic Church. I have a very close friend who had to attend classes with her, and that is how I know this. I don't remember specifics, but my friend would come to me to get the real story after most sessions. In another parish near me, the woman in charge of RCIA also did not believe in the real faith and taught heresy. We now have a new, much better bishop and things are sssssllllllooooowwwwlllllyyy getting better here, but I wouldn't count on RCIA to teach the meat of the faith. Your child can easily take the RCIA (which really is a much more appropriate class to take because it really gets to the core of what the Catholic faith is truly about) and recieve confirmation. I know I will be using what I have from our RCIA along with books and so forth to make sure my girls are properly catechised. But I also don't want them to go through Confirmation until THEY feel they are ready. Not because I want them too. Hmm, now that I think about it, I don't want them to do RCIA either (see above). Now I don't know what to do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Believe it or not this isn't so much the church but more from pressure from the parents. I was talking with our Deacon about this during our RCIA and I'm not sure how it really got brought up. But he was discussing with my husband and I that its more pressure of the parents and not the church. The church obviously wants you to come into Confirmation ready and willing. He said to many times they have children there that get dropped off and don't even want to be there. I can see that in some cases (the parents pressuring) but requiring THREE years to prepare for RCIA seems quite over the top to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshine_librarian Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I can see that in some cases (the parents pressuring) but requiring THREE years to prepare for RCIA seems quite over the top to me. Three years to complete RCIA is very "old school," or early church. It allows for the candidate/catechumen to go through all three cycle years of the Mass and allows for greater breadth of catechesis. For FLMom I would recommend trying out an Inquiry at a local parish. It would be a first step to answer questions about Catholicism as a precursor to deciding to embark upon RCIA.:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanne in MN Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Oh my, until now, I always thought it was a grasshopper too! I had to look at it awhile to really see it. The things you learn! Lol! :lol: I thought it was as well. When I saw this I had to stare at it a bit to see that it wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Believe it or not this isn't so much the church but more from pressure from the parents. I was talking with our Deacon about this during our RCIA and I'm not sure how it really got brought up. But he was discussing with my husband and I that its more pressure of the parents and not the church. The church obviously wants you to come into Confirmation ready and willing. He said to many times they have children there that get dropped off and don't even want to be there. They would really much rather have them come to them ready and willing to recieve the Sacrament of Confirmation. But so many parents think their child HAS to go through this and HAS to have it done at a certain age that they cave into the parents demands. I have a really hard time believing this. I don't know any parents that want three years of blackmail to get their child confirmed. If they really want the kids ready and willing they should confirm them at the age of reason (7) when kids haven't become so cynical yet and have fewer conflicting activities. Our RCIA programs are only one year (school year actually) but confirmation for kids raised in the faith seems to take twice as long :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 But I also don't want them to go through Confirmation until THEY feel they are ready. Not because I want them too. My mom was raised during Vatican 1 -- you didn't get married in the Church (at least not in her culture) unless you were going to adhere to its laws. Baptizing your children was not just for saving their souls, but also a covenant that you would raise them in the Church (eg: taken VERY seriously). First communion was the first time a kid had any choice as to whether of not they "wanted to continue". I still remember being asked when I wanted to do it (Midnight mass, 3rd grade, btw). Confirmation was considered REALLY serious. It was the "no turning back" point. In my family, at least. It might as well have been getting married in a high mass, given the level of scrutiny and seriousness placed on it. My mom really drilled in the concept of it being a type of contract with the Church; that one was old enough (minimally a teenager) to decide for oneself if one wanted to pursue a life governed by the laws of the RCC. Needless to say, I didn't get around to it until age 43... :lol: a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlifemom Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 justamouse - I just NOW realized that your avatar wasn't a grasshopper. :banghead: Oh my goodness! I totally thought that was a grasshopper too. :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlebug42 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Question: is there anything any of ya'll can do to increase religious education in your parish? I mean, can't you speak with your priests, your bishops, someone??? My parish doesn't even offer RE classes for children that don't go to the parish school. Fortunately for me, our priest allows me to catechise my own children (in line with the rules of the diocese). I could send them to RE at another parish but honestly, they know more from me and our family teaching them what they need to know. Last year when Sweet-Pea had her 1st Communion, she knew way more than the other children that attend the parish school. I will say though that the lady that was their teacher for 2nd grade that year just got fired by our priest for not being Catholic enough. I don't know any details but he let go two teachers who apparently weren't living up to their faith and imparting it to the children. I certainly understand after meeting those kids last year. I am glad that they leave me to take care of my own children. BTW- we haven't gotten there yet but our parish has Confirmation in 8th grade. My nephews were confirmed at the same time they were received into the church a few years ago. They had already been baptized in another denomination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aubrey Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Jack Chick tracts are true. I've heard "Jack Chick" on so many of these threads this week, I googled. 1. I was raised on these. I didn't know they were called "Jack Chick" tracts. It's what you read for entertainment during the sermon or while your mom was making copies for Sunday School. 2. Oh. my. gosh. I haven't read one in a long time. 3. The one on Catholicism (is there more than one? I hope not!) could just as easily be about Baptists or anyone else--if you move the bold function over a couple of words, you can emphasize "this is My body"..."this is My blood" instead of "do this in remembrance of Me," which actually, bolded, means nothing in the context in which they use it. 4. I'm REALLY tempted to rewrite it for them. I mean...they "disprove" confession by quoting a verse that says to confess your sins to God. But there's another verse in there (imagine!) that says to confess to one another. Now, I've never confessed to a priest, & the idea wigs *me* out, but logical fallacies, blatant lies, and abuse of Scripture wigs me out a lot more. Gah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Monastics are people that I think Protestantism is missing out on. We have them in the Anglican church, including Benedictines. We occupy a weird area between Catholics and Protestants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Confirmation was considered REALLY serious. It was the "no turning back" point. In my family, at least. It might as well have been getting married in a high mass, given the level of scrutiny and seriousness placed on it. My mom really drilled in the concept of it being a type of contract with the Church; that one was old enough (minimally a teenager) to decide for oneself if one wanted to pursue a life governed by the laws of the RCC. This is another common (among Catholics) misconception. Baptism is the no turning back point. You are still a Catholic (and obliged to pursue a life governed by the laws of the RCC) whether you ever got confirmed or not. In confirmation, it is the Bishop doing the confirming (of what the priest dd when you were baptized,) not the confirmand. The only time one hears this is in reference to an annulment, when people suddenly realize that they actually were baptized Catholic way back when, so their subsequent marriage in a Protestant church was never recognized by the Catholic church (so therefore they can now get married in the Church.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 If a child converts who is 7 or older, he or she is given all three sacraments at once. But children who have been baptized as babies and made their First Communion at the age of reason must wait nearly 10 more years...it's aggravating to me. Me too. Personally, I'd love to see the sacraments given to infants again. Too often they are looked at as a rite of passage - something to be gotten through. Actually the biggest problem and misconception for catholic and non catholic alike is that confirmation is basicly the same thing as a Protestant profession of faith and thus that is why you should wait until they are "ready". No. It. Is. Not. It is a vital sacrament completing their baptism and giving them vital gifts of the holy spirit that would likely make the spiritual conflicts of the teen years much easier to endure. Instead they are told to jump through hoops they have not been given the full sacraments to endure and people wonder why they stubble and fall.:glare: end of rant on that I think the main problem would be if you had an abortion. If you have had an abortion, you would need to go to confession before becoming Catholic. Can a non-Catholic go to confession? No. Whether you had and abortion or not, most parishes will have you go though confession when converting or reverting. Confessions at it's most basic is a spiritual cleansing. It is probably THE most feared part of conversion for many people. It makes us feel vulnerable. It makes us examine our conscious, which can be a painful, tho a necessary part of spiritual growth. And I think we all fear judgement, in this case from a priest. But it is a often a very freeing thing that lifts a huge burden off of a heavy soul. And I assure you, most priest have heard it all and then some. They don't keep a tally or even a mental list of who did what. And if you choose a regular personal confessor, they can be very kind and helpful in your spiritual struggles, whatever those might be. There are Catholics who are for abortion, just as there are plenty that use birth control. In theory, it is a deal breaker bc it goes against obvious church teachings. In reality, some people obviously feel no conflict or not enough of one. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 More and more dioceses are moving toward restoring the order of the sacraments. So much so I'm now surprised to hear of confirmation in high school. DD recently made her Confirmation...and the whole process seemed to focus upon becoming an adult and taking your adult place in the church. There was also a emphasis on the Holy SPirit guiding you to make right choices in difficult situations. I can see all these points with teens but not with 2nd graders. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I have a really hard time believing this. I don't know any parents that want three years of blackmail to get their child confirmed. In my (Anglican - I need to put that in my siggy while I'm in this thread. :)) church there are a lot of things that frustrate my rather progressive minister. Things he'd like to change or new things he'd like to try but can't because, "this is the way it's always been done." I have no trouble believing it. People often have a model in their heads of what church should be and expect that it should always be that way, no matter if it is boring, torturous, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 DD recently made her Confirmation...and the whole process seemed to focus upon becoming an adult and taking your adult place in the church. There was also a emphasis on the Holy SPirit guiding you to make right choices in difficult situations. I can see all these points with teens but not with 2nd graders. :confused: :banghead: Case in point to my previous post. One, that is NOT what confirmation is. It is NOT just an acceptance of faith as a rite of passage into adult faith acceptance. Two, I completely disagree. Even a second grader should be taught to find their place in the church and to seek spiritual guidance in making right choices. These are actually gifts of receiving the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of confirmation. And they are necessary gifts that we all need at any age to be fully equipped to battle difficulties in our spiritual lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 lol, I tried to change my av before but never found a photo that fit. :lol: There you go! A hamster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I have a really hard time believing this. I don't know any parents that want three years of blackmail to get their child confirmed. Blackmail? Since when has religious ed become blackmail? And if more people stood up and said no to practice and games on Sundays conflicts would become almost non-existent. DD recently made her Confirmation...and the whole process seemed to focus upon becoming an adult and taking your adult place in the church. This is a common misconception due to the fact that sometimes, amazingly, some things change too quickly. It is why the restored order of the sacraments are becoming more and more popular among dioceses. :banghead: Case in point to my previous post. One, that is NOT what confirmation is. It is NOT just an acceptance of faith as a rite of passage into adult faith acceptance. Two, I completely disagree. Even a second grader should be taught to find their place in the church and to seek spiritual guidance in making right choices. These are actually gifts of receiving the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of confirmation. And they are necessary gifts that we all need at any age to be fully equipped to battle difficulties in our spiritual lives. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Blackmail? Since when has religious ed become blackmail? Since they quit teaching and just required a warm body in the seat in order to be confirmed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Since they quit teaching and just required a warm body in the seat in order to be confirmed. Why hasn't anyone taken that up with the priest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehon Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Here are some. She said she was also getting some for next year from Loyola Press. Sorry, wasn't thinking to post links. :001_smile: (The first link to Sadlier Press-my oldest was given the book One Faith One Lord and browsing though it it has the Nihil Obstat and in the first few chapters talks about how Genesis was not trying to answer questions of science, how 24 hours does not literally mean a day and how evolution is compatible with church teaching-that God is the creator of all life. Just in case you don't want that.) Thanks for these! No, the above doesn't bother me in the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I'm the one who called it blackmail, and that's how I see it. I was confirmed in 8th grade, and yes, some people did stop coming to high school CCD. In the diocese I live in now, the requirements for confirmation just keep growing and growing, and now one must be enrolled in RE for most of high school just to get confirmed. The classes aren't meaningful; this is not "old school" as a pp called it, it's just more and more requirements. One of my friends tried desperately to get her oldest confirmed before the normal age here. She really felt he could use the graces. She talked to her priest, talked to the diocese, called a priest at Seton to see if he had any advice, and finally she just had to give up. Then they moved to a different state and had no problem getting him confirmed. And it's not just homeschoolers - I've talked to other parents who have never homeschooled who were not happy with the classes or the requirements. In my parish the classes are on Wednesday evenings from 6:30-7:30. Even if I wanted my dd to be in the confirmation class, she has ballet at that time, and that's also usually our dinner time. My dc haven't been enrolled in RE since my twins were born because it isn't necessary (we do religion at home, just like Catholic school students don't go) and because it really conflicts with other goals our family has. And if I do make the commitment and effort to get them there? They're not really learning anything. In 8th grade RE, my oldest son answered every single question. The teacher (who loved him) had to tell him to let the other students answer once in a while - problem was, they didn't know the answers. The requirement for 1st Communion is that they know the Our Father and the Hail Mary (they don't make them memorize the Act of Contrition), which my children know by age 3-4. Then after that, there's no attempt to have them memorize any other prayer. I consider it purely social time, and if they happen to hear something I teach them at home, then it's gravy. I used to be really involved in my parish, I subbed RE, I helped with VBS, etc. However, then I had twins (and another child who had just turned 2) and I was busy at home. I couldn't do anything there. No one else at my church has more than 4 dc. Eventually, yes, I'd like to be able to help make things better. But for now, all I can do is make sure that my own dc know the faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I used to be really involved in my parish, I subbed RE, I helped with VBS, etc. However, then I had twins (and another child who had just turned 2) and I was busy at home. I couldn't do anything there. No one else at my church has more than 4 dc. Eventually, yes, I'd like to be able to help make things better. But for now, all I can do is make sure that my own dc know the faith. (that was me that called it old skool) It just seemed like it was a really old fashioned thing to do. I didn't realize that the real old fashioned thing was to have them all done asap. I thought that was just EO. ANYwho. :grouphug: I've been in that place of too many toddlers and having to just take care of the family. Priorities, yanno? Can't save the world yet, gotta take care of my own. But it's just for a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Many do view it as blackmail. From this perspective: They are withholding a sacrament for no valid reason other than to try to force kids to attend classes and events they otherwise wouldn't. Because they KNOW these kids and their families want the sacrament, but most could not care less about participating in the other stuff. Stuff that is NOT a requirement of the confirmed or of receiving any sacrament. That is pretty much blackmail to a lot of families. Can you ever imagine a priest telling someone they cannot receive communion this Sunday because they didn't make sandwiches for meals on wheels or go to over night camps or? Of course not. Yet the exact same thing is being done to our youth in regards to confirmation. And it isn't a valid a reason to deny a sacrament. And it does harm these kids. They need the gifts of this sacrament more than ever and at a time when so many naturally struggle spiritually, many parishes are withholding it like some kind of carrot they get if they manage to survive spiritually without the very sacrament that might make it easier for them. How twisted sad is THAT? Obviously I might have a strong opinion about this.;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 Many do view it as blackmail. From this perspective: They are withholding a sacrament for no valid reason other than to try to force kids to attend classes and events they otherwise wouldn't. Because they KNOW these kids and their families want the sacrament, but most could not care less about participating in the other stuff. Stuff that is NOT a requirement of the confirmed or of receiving any sacrament. That is pretty much blackmail to a lot of families. Can you ever imagine a priest telling someone they cannot receive communion this Sunday because they didn't make sandwiches for meals on wheels or go to over night camps or? Of course not. Yet the exact same thing is being done to our youth in regards to confirmation. And it isn't a valid a reason to deny a sacrament. And it does harm these kids. They need the gifts of this sacrament more than ever and at a time when so many naturally struggle spiritually, many parishes are withholding it like some kind of carrot they get if they manage to survive spiritually without the very sacrament that might make it easier for them. How twisted sad is THAT? Obviously I might have a strong opinion about this.;) Good to know I'm not alone in this! Sad we even have to deal with this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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