If you are Christian, did you find any benefit in reading Beowulf?

[HappyGrace]

Trying to set up lit for dd11 for Middle Ages next yr, and wondering if there is Christian value in Beowulf.

 

I am worried about the imagery but would do it if there is significant Christian redeeming value. (Obviously I am not familiar with the story.)

 

Also would love to know of any Christian lit guide you used to help you.

 

(xpost Logic)

[sassenach]

I find with decisions like this, it is probably best to pre-read the book yourself. What one Christian finds redeeming, another will find abominable.

[Irishmommy]

I'm not sure about Christian value, as it is not a "Christian" story, but it certainly has literary value. I don't know that I would assign it to a kid below high school, but we read a picture book of the story with my 10 yo. I think it is the timeless story of good and evil (and Grendal does die in the end). I agree with the above poster, you really should read it yourself if you have questions.

[HappyGrace]

I agree and will read it before I'd let dd read it, but first I was wondering some opinions to see if it's even something worth considering. Thanks!

[Crimson Wife]

Beowulf can be taught as a cautionary tale. Ambleside Online has a useful free study guide here. I think it's an important story to know for cultural literacy purposes

[mcconnellboys]

Well, it was not written as a Christian story, but it is thought that the monk who perhaps originally set it down in writing tried to add Christian elements to the story. I'm not sure I'd be reading it if I were only looking for Christian literature....

[monalisa]

I read a children's version with dd 8 earlier this year, and didn't find much value in having read it at this age. It is a classic story of good and evil, but it was too violent/scary for my sensitive dd, and I read a very watered down version. I am coming from a reformed protestant perspective, and don't feel it added anything particularly Christian to our study of the middle ages. We were using Biblioplan Year 2 w/ SOTW 2, and I think it was listed as a book to read (if not in BP, it was listed in SOTW2). Just my own personal opinion and perspective. There are many versions of it that I came across. Some had scarier illustrations that others.

[beaners]

When I read it in a university class, we had quite a bit of discussion on Christian allegory and themes. A lit guide outlining the story might give you a decent idea of whether or not this is something you want to tackle at this point. Some people think allegory is worthwhile, and others think it is blasphemy.

[PeterPan]

Happy, you might be happier (pun intended, haha) letting her read a retelling of it this coming year, just to get acquianted with the plot, and saving the regular version for high school. That would certainly work around any issues. There's TONS of great middle ages lit for this age. Not like the world will end if you skip it.

 

Ok, humbug. I just asked my dd, and she said even the kid versions she read left it kind of violent and weird. So there you go. I would consider it utterly skippable for an 11 yo girl. :)

 

Check out some of these books dd read recently (while on a British monarchy binge) that she really enjoyed:

http://www.amazon.com/Doomed-Queen-Anne-Young-Royals/dp/0152050868/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1305482233&sr=1-4 This is by Carolyn Meyer. It was in our library's youth fiction section, and apparently anything else by her would be good. I didn't pre-read, but dd said it was clean.

http://www.amazon.com/Lady-Elizabeth-Random-Readers-Circle/dp/0345495365/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1305482385&sr=1-6 This is by Alison Weir, who has both novels (what dd enjoyed) and biographies of many of the same people. These are typically in the adult section, so they're a bump up. Dd read the Weir books, etc, comparing them to a biography by Starkey to check facts. I guess she's a geek, lol.

 

She also said the Rinaldi books were good.

 

Basically just go through your library's teen fiction section and see what you find. The world will not end if you skip Beowulf for now. I think sometimes we jump the gun, trying to get something out of them they aren't ready for, and we end up missing the things they CAN do and enjoy.

[HappyGrace]

I guess I'll skip it then. Doesn't sound like it adds much.

 

Monalisa-we are doing BP2 w/ SOTW/MOH this yr too!

 

I am trying to bump her up in some lit choices. We've already done Robin Hood, but will do King Arthur, and yes, there are enough other choices that I think we'll skip Beowulf. MOH has a few pages saying what it is, etc., so at least she can read that and be somewhat familiar, w/out going overboard.

 

THANK YOU! That saves me a bunch of time.

[Daisy]

We liked the Robert Nye retelling and enjoyed picking out the Christmas elements that had been added. It has a good triumphs over evil theme. I read three different versions and really think the Nye version was best for this age group and our family's religious beliefs (easy to see the religious elements and less violent). You definitely would want to pre-read it. I don't think you'll lose anything by skipping it. However, we did enjoy the conversations we had about it.

[Snowfall]

I know you've already made up your mind, and I can't comment on whether it would add any Christian value, but I just wanted to agree that even the children's version we read was horribly violent. It was a very long picture book, and dd didn't want to read past the first bit. She was only 6, but I had thought the kids' version would be less violent. It was a picture book, for goodness' sake! I should've pre-read it.

[LittleIzumi]

I'm not sure about Christian value, as it is not a "Christian" story, but it certainly has literary value. I don't know that I would assign it to a kid below high school, but we read a picture book of the story with my 10 yo. I think it is the timeless story of good and evil (and Grendal does die in the end). I agree with the above poster, you really should read it yourself if you have questions.

:iagree:

[Daisy]

I know you've already made up your mind, and I can't comment on whether it would add any Christian value, but I just wanted to agree that even the children's version we read was horribly violent. It was a very long picture book, and dd didn't want to read past the first bit. She was only 6, but I had thought the kids' version would be less violent. It was a picture book, for goodness' sake! I should've pre-read it.

 

I'm assuming you are speaking of the Morpurgo version. I completely agree. It was horribly violent and sadly lost almost all of the Christian content. I think the terrible illustrations made that book even worse. I decided not to read this version to either one of my children. Even the Nye version was only read by our 11yo. I wouldn't even consider reading this story to anyone under that age.

[Snowfall]

Yeah, my dd has never been bothered by the You Wouldn't Want To Be...Series, which include info like how one of Cleopatra's young relatives was cut up and served to his own mother, so I figured Beowulf would be fine in a children's version, but not so. :(

[HappyGrace]

Ugh, it all just sounds upsetting and better left for high school!

[Chelli]

I guess I have a strange dd7 then. She LOVED it! We've read it about 10 times all from different picture books. She doesn't get afraid of anything, though. The more elaborate the pictures the better she liked it :001_huh: She thought the story was really great too.

 

If you had a sensitive child and wanted to read Beowulf. I would get the Mary Pope Osborne book, Favorite Medieval Tales. I think it is used as an alternate resource in Biblioplan. Beowulf is inculded in the book and only has one picture in that chapter. Out of all the versions we read this one was the most "kid friendly" in terms of reading/listening ease and creepy pictures.

 

As a Christian, we just presented Beowulf as a fairy tale type story at this age. We'll get into the literary worth of it when dd is in high school. For now it was just something to read from the time period.

[Daisy]

Ugh, it all just sounds upsetting and better left for high school!

 

When in doubt about a book, movie, etc...wait. That's our motto.

[Cleopatra]

I'm copying my post from the Logic Forum. Depending on the maturity of the child, you could stick with a simple retelling, but honestly, I found so much value in the book, speaking from a Christian standpoint. Here is what I wrote:

 

 

Yes, absolutely!!!

 

I just studied it in a university fantasy lit class. We talked about the manuscript of the book and, because of all the "Christian" references in Beowulf (all Old Testament, which is curious), does it actually show the advent of Christianity into Britian or was the manuscript later altered by monks copying these references into the original script? No one knows.

 

Beowulf, the character, fascinated me. The society he lived in was all based on blood-feud ..... if someone offended you, you would simply attempt to massacre him and all his family, which, of course, he would then try to do to you and your family. Beowulf acted completely contrary to the society in which he lived. For example, he:

 

* shows respect to Hrothgar even though Hrothgar shows a reluctance to fight

* does not rise to Unferth's taunts and is courteous to him in spite of them

* in Hrothgar's weak position, he could easily have tried to usurp Hrothgar's power but does not

* when Unferth gives Beowulf his sword to use against Grendel's mother (Unferth now shows respect towards Beowulf) and it is of no use to him, when Beowulf returns from the lair, he does not tell Unferth but merely thanks him, with courtesy, for its use

* he refuses to take kingship in his own country over the king who is already in place (Heardred) even though the people request his leadership, but waits until Heardred's death to assume the position

* he is a courteous man, etc.....

 

Beowulf is trying to shed the old ways and bring about change, which could be mirrored as the shedding of paganism and the advent of Christianity.

 

In contrasting Christianity and Paganism, you could talk about (from my notes):

 

1. The pagan fate is impersonal and fearful; God controls everything and brings about his perfect plan

2. The Danes had turned to pagan help (counsellors) instead of God to help them conquer Grendel (lines 170-180)

3. Re: blood-feuds ...... the need for revenge, that becomes cyclical, leaves no room for God to bring about justice. True justice cannot happen because the men do not act with justice or honour.

4. While the end of the poem seems tragic (all Beowulf's victories do not cure the root problem of his culture), could it possibly be a new beginning, as we see change throughout the poem? Could it be the end of the Geats but the start of a new civilization, ie. the end of paganism and the start of Christianity?

 

We also talked about the qualities in the pagans that one could admire, such as loyalty, bravery, courage, perseverance, yet they felt that there was no hope (wyrd=fate)

 

We read the Seamus Heaney version and it was very enjoyable. The format is also good for annotation.

 

It was interesting to contrast Beowulf with Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. By the time of Sir Gawain, Christianity has come to Britian, as evidenced in King Arthur's court. The focus has now changed from the outward actions of Beowulf's pagan society (blood-feud, killing, power, etc.) to control over the inner-self, ie. the code of chivalry; the importance of the five virtues: generousity, courtesy, chastity, chivalry, piety; self-control; honor, etc. ........... I loved Beowulf and enjoyed Sir Gawain even more.

 

I hope my ramblings give you some food for thought! :001_smile:

[Aquinas Academy]

I guess I have a strange dd7 then. She LOVED it! We've read it about 10 times all from different picture books. She doesn't get afraid of anything, though. The more elaborate the pictures the better she liked it :001_huh: She thought the story was really great too.

 

I was getting kind of worried reading this thread because my kids have loved Beowulf. Glad to hear they aren't the only ones! We will definitely be reading it as part of our medieval studies next year. :)

[Steven]

I would like to offer a completely alternative way of thinking about the Christian value of reading Beowulf. The conversion of the Germanic tribes is an important part of the history of medieval Europe. To understand that the pagan tribes had a very different way of looking at the world, honor, and the meaning of life and death than Christians did is valuable in itself.

 

I think too often we imagine other cultures to be pretty much just like us, and that makes the spread of Christianity somewhat unintelligible. If the pagan cultures were just like Christian culture, why did the Germanic tribes bother adopting Christianity (or why did Charlemagne expend so much energy forcing them to convert)? Stories like Beowulf can help us understand the real life implications of living your life based on the principles of Nordic religion vs. living a Christian-based life.

 

That the author makes some effort to introduce Christian themes in the story only makes it more interesting to see how traditional stories came to embody beliefs and practices that were not acceptable in a Christian setting.

[Miss Marple]

You might find this helpful in your decision making. Jeff Baldwin uses this piece in his great books study. We found it to be a very worthwhile read leading to many theological discussions.

[Heather in VA]

I completely agree with Cleopatra. Beowulf is wonderful. My girls love it.

 

Heather

[GypsieFamily]

We have listened to H.E. Marshall's Stories of Beowulf as an audiobook with my kids. Honestly, not having read it before I just kept thinking I have heard this story so many times i.e. Batman, Superman, Spiderman etc. It's just the original superhero story. My kids showed very little interest (they don't watch modern superhero stuff either).

 

I'll make them listen to it again in a few years to make sure they are familiar with it as a cultural literacy item. I think this is part of the Anglo-Saxon heritage, just as much as being familiar with Norse Myths, Greek/Roman myths, hhistory plots, important personages of history etc. I also find the negatives often have value, too, as the kids discuss characters that they do and don't like in the stories they read and why.

[HappyGrace]

I will probably read one of the tamer versions mentioned here myself and see what I think, but most likely will wait on it til high school when we can go deep with it, like Cleopatra mentioned (awesome post, Cleo, thanks!)

[Finnella]

We also read Sir Gawain and Beowulf back to back. I found it to be a great opportunity to compare and contrast what a "hero" was and the culture and what each culture valued. And I absolutely love the Seamus Heaney translation, which I did as a read aloud book with my son.

 

I absolutely loved Cleopatra's post on the topic. Naturally, I acknowledge that a very violent story isn't going to work for all middle school aged children. My son is rarely put off by that sort of thing and never has been. (I will, however, say that no movie version of Beowulf is watchable. My husband keeps on renting them; I'm not sure why. They're awful for adults and would be worse for the kids.)

[RootAnn]

We read several versions of Beowulf when we went through that time period including Beowulf the Warrior by Ian Serraillier, Beowulf by Welwyn Wilton Katz, and Mary Pope Osborne's version in Favorite Medieval Tales.

 

My kids enjoyed the W.W. Katz version the best from what I remember. It is told from a different perspective from the others, I think. My #2 child is pretty sensitive, but she didn't mind Beowulf.

 

They were able to pick pieces out of this book & draw parallels to the dragon story Eragon. We didn't talk about Christian-aspects of the story. IMO, at their age(s), it is enough that they have heard of it.

[justamouse]

My kids loved it and there are an amazing amount of Christian references. We've read Nye, Heaney (for the olders, which is just beautiful) and Gareth Hind's version which is like an amazing comic book (with a non watered down retelling as far as language) is our favorite. Even Hind's had an incredible amount of OT Christian references.

Edited May 16, 2011 by justamouse

[JEMama]

Adding to Cleopatra's post... I used to teach high school English, and when we studied this book, I had the students analyze each of the battles, looking at the preparations (whether or not Beowulf wore armor, selection of weapons, who he brings into battle with him), speeches, and outcomes (including rewards). Basically when Beowulf trusts God and gives glory to God, he wins easily. When he starts to take pride in his power and wealth (hence taking glory for himself), he has less confidence (as seen in his armor, weapon choice and who he takes to battle with him) and struggles in battle. His burial at the end is a pagan one.

 

I would probably not teach this to young kids because of the violence. This would be worth studying at the high school level when the student has 1) the maturity to handle the imagery, 2) the analytical skills to pull out Christian themes and distinguish them from pagan ones, and 3) a better understanding of the historical context to validate the work as something worth studying. The OP's question-- is there any Christian value in reading Beowulf?-- would make a good essay question or discussion topic for someone in the Rhetoric Stage.