AAS and R&S Phonics/Spelling

[daybreaking]

Over the last year, I've seen good improvement in my ds's spelling, but I feel he's needs extra practice, so I've been looking at AAS. We're almost done with R&S's grade 2 phonics and will complete their grade 2 spelling next week. I've been interested in AAS because it seems to go hand in hand with the type of instruction in R&S and I love the set up of TM. I've considered just buying the TM for review, but I didn't know if I'd be missing out by not using all the components. My hope is that AAS would reinforce and cement what he's learned with R&S, but at the same time I also wonder if I'm just duplicating what's in R&S and that doing AAS would be redundant. Any thoughts? :bigear:

[MerryAtHope]

I haven't used R&S, but will bump your post! Have you looked at the online samples and the scope and sequence links? That might help you decide. This page has links for levels 1-3, and there are links for 4-6 on each of those product pages. Hopefully someone who has used both can help!

[daybreaking]

*bump*

[ChrissySC]

I do not have the answer you need either. Yet, I use Megawords with R&S4. I would think you could use both if you like, but I know that a good look at the scope and sequence charts on R&S may help you to better decide if you should stay or go with the spelling.

 

I like the sound and structure and teaching methods of R&S, and it walks hand-in-hand with MW. :)

 

I know - not much help - and only more to consider! The point ... look at the charts on AAS and R&S. Email AAS if you are concerned about content and ask for the scope and sequence if need be. It has been a long time since I visited their site. I don't know if they even have one.

[daybreaking]

I do not have the answer you need either. Yet, I use Megawords with R&S4. I would think you could use both if you like, but I know that a good look at the scope and sequence charts on R&S may help you to better decide if you should stay or go with the spelling.

 

I like the sound and structure and teaching methods of R&S, and it walks hand-in-hand with MW. :)

 

I know - not much help - and only more to consider! The point ... look at the charts on AAS and R&S. Email AAS if you are concerned about content and ask for the scope and sequence if need be. It has been a long time since I visited their site. I don't know if they even have one.

 

I agree with you about the "sound and structure" teaching methods of R&S. I do plan on continuing with R&S spelling (and BNRS). I just don't know whether I should add in AAS on top of it. In looking at the scope and sequence of both, they cover many similar topics, which is why I wondered if AAS would be redundant or if it would present things in such a way as to solidify what my ds has learned in R&S. I have a feeling there are not a lot of folks that have used both, so I might just have to try out a level of AAS. Thank you to both of you, though, for taking the time to give your thoughts. :001_smile:

[ChrissySC]

I suppose that whether or not you decide to use AAS with the repetition would depend on the design of the exercises and whether or not you like the idea of over teaching or mastery. I would see nothing wrong with using both. You can always skip an exercise for a lesson. As well, you may find that the lineup is different. In our case, MW and R&S do line up differently and only repeat mildly in some respects. Probably not as clearly as what AAS would with R&S because of the difference and design of MW in particular.

 

Because you feel that your son needs the extra practice, which my daughter did and still does, I would say to use both regardless of the rep. I think the material will appear at different times and serve as review at certain points. I consider this teaching towards mastery. :) Ultimately, when we learn something, even as adults, we tend to need to repeat it several times before we can do it adequately. I try and keep this in mind when deciding on whether or not I want a supplement. Perhaps the two different approaches will be different enough that if one is not received well by your son, then the other will prove successful. For the cost, I think the possible benefit is worth the possible failure.

[Lovedtodeath]

AAS teaches how to break a word down into its sounds... to sound out a word in order to spell it. It does a very good job of this and does it in a very slow step by step way. Is this what you are looking for?

 

Or... Are you wanting to add dictation (words, sentences, and/or nonsense words?) to Rod and Staff?

 

And/or are you wanting to add a good review of spelling rules and phonograms to Rod and Staff?

 

This will all help you to determine if adding AAS is your best option.

[daybreaking]

AAS teaches how to break a word down into its sounds... to sound out a word in order to spell it. It does a very good job of this and does it in a very slow step by step way. Is this what you are looking for?

 

Or... Are you wanting to add dictation (words, sentences, and/or nonsense words?) to Rod and Staff?

 

And/or are you wanting to add a good review of spelling rules and phonograms to Rod and Staff?

 

This will all help you to determine if adding AAS is your best option.

 

Good questions! I find that R&S does a good job of breaking words down into sounds and I use HOD for copywork & dictation, so I'm mainly looking for reinforcement. I guess what it boils down to is that my ds knows all of the phonograms, quite well actually, and he has learned many of the spelling rules, but I just don't see consistent application of the rules in his writing. For example, the other day his assignment in R&S English 2 was to write a paragraph. When he was done, we had to correct four to five words. This is typical for him. I wondered if AAS would improve his daily spelling or if I just need to give him more time.

[daybreaking]

I suppose that whether or not you decide to use AAS with the repetition would depend on the design of the exercises and whether or not you like the idea of over teaching or mastery. I would see nothing wrong with using both. You can always skip an exercise for a lesson. As well, you may find that the lineup is different. In our case, MW and R&S do line up differently and only repeat mildly in some respects. Probably not as clearly as what AAS would with R&S because of the difference and design of MW in particular.

 

Because you feel that your son needs the extra practice, which my daughter did and still does, I would say to use both regardless of the rep. I think the material will appear at different times and serve as review at certain points. I consider this teaching towards mastery. :) Ultimately, when we learn something, even as adults, we tend to need to repeat it several times before we can do it adequately. I try and keep this in mind when deciding on whether or not I want a supplement. Perhaps the two different approaches will be different enough that if one is not received well by your son, then the other will prove successful. For the cost, I think the possible benefit is worth the possible failure.

 

This is helpful and makes me lean towards going ahead and getting AAS. I have found the mastery and "overteaching" approach to be quite successful for my ds in regards to math. Perhaps he needs the same with spelling.

[Lovedtodeath]

This is helpful and makes me lean towards going ahead and getting AAS. I have found the mastery and "overteaching" approach to be quite successful for my ds in regards to math. Perhaps he needs the same with spelling.

If you are using the dictation in HOD in addition to Rod and Staff then you are already over-teaching spelling, IMO. In addition, most kids still have to correct spelling within their writing. There are many threads by people using AAS saying that it isn't working because kiddo still has incorrect spelling within other assignments! I don't think he needs anything but time.

 

Do you have him correct the spelling of the words in his writing? Do you use the rules to correct them? If not, that is the one thing I might add... then again, if he is in Rod and Staff 2 my guess is that he is doing great for his age.

[daybreaking]

If you are using the dictation in HOD in addition to Rod and Staff then you are already over-teaching spelling, IMO. In addition, most kids still have to correct spelling within their writing. There are many threads by people using AAS saying that it isn't working because kiddo still has incorrect spelling within other assignments! I don't think he needs anything but time.

 

Do you have him correct the spelling of the words in his writing? Do you use the rules to correct them? If not, that is the one thing I might add... then again, if he is in Rod and Staff 2 my guess is that he is doing great for his age.

 

Yes, I do have him correct the spelling and I do remind him of the rules. (ex. Just yesterday he spelled "geting" and I responded, "Remember, honey, when you have a one-syllable, short vowel word, you need to double the last consonant before adding a suffix." He immediately remembered the rule and knew it should be "getting.") I feel badly for him because sometimes he gets discouraged with all the corrections. I guess with him being my oldest, I'm not sure what is normal and what means remediation is needed. I definitely have seen improvement this year, so maybe it is a matter of time for the rules to sink in. That's interesting about people saying their children still have incorrect spelling even with using AAS. I'll have to look up those threads. Thanks!

[Medieval Mom]

If you are using the dictation in HOD in addition to Rod and Staff then you are already over-teaching spelling, IMO. In addition, most kids still have to correct spelling within their writing. There are many threads by people using AAS saying that it isn't working because kiddo still has incorrect spelling within other assignments! I don't think he needs anything but time.

 

Do you have him correct the spelling of the words in his writing? Do you use the rules to correct them? If not, that is the one thing I might add... then again, if he is in Rod and Staff 2 my guess is that he is doing great for his age.

 

:iagree:, esp. with the bolded parts. Give it time. :)

[MerryAtHope]

Yes, I do have him correct the spelling and I do remind him of the rules. (ex. Just yesterday he spelled "geting" and I responded, "Remember, honey, when you have a one-syllable, short vowel word, you need to double the last consonant before adding a suffix." He immediately remembered the rule and knew it should be "getting.") I feel badly for him because sometimes he gets discouraged with all the corrections.

 

One thing you can do when this happens is to ask questions instead of telling him how to do it--can he remember the rule on his own? Another thing I have done is to put a light pencil X next to a line for each error, and see if my kids can find the errors. Sometimes they can only find them, sometimes they can find and fix them both (I only do this for rules/words I feel they can be held accountable for, I don't do it for harder words, those I just tell). I praise them for finding and/or fixing errors. Separating out the writing process from the editing process can really help. Here's a blog entry where I wrote more on how to do this--the ideas incorporated are from AAS but you can apply them whether or not you actually decide to use AAS. Hang in there! Merry :-)

[Lovedtodeath]

That's interesting about people saying their children still have incorrect spelling even with using AAS. I'll have to look up those threads. Thanks!

Oh no! Is AAS failing me?

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159089

 

How well should a third grader be spelling?

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159050

 

AAS question frustrated:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123318

 

and more in these google searches:

 

aas mistakes in writing site:welltrainedmind.com

 

aas still misspells site:welltrainedmind.com

[daybreaking]

You ladies are great!!!! Thank you so much! :001_smile:

[SnMomof7]

Yes, I do have him correct the spelling and I do remind him of the rules. (ex. Just yesterday he spelled "geting" and I responded, "Remember, honey, when you have a one-syllable, short vowel word, you need to double the last consonant before adding a suffix." He immediately remembered the rule and knew it should be "getting.") I feel badly for him because sometimes he gets discouraged with all the corrections. I guess with him being my oldest, I'm not sure what is normal and what means remediation is needed. I definitely have seen improvement this year, so maybe it is a matter of time for the rules to sink in.

 

I haven't used R&S, but it sounds like it is a solid, phonics-rules based program. If you have a solid, phonics-based program and you are doing what you said above, that's a recipe for success!

 

I try to stay near my daughter when she is writing, so if she has any uncertainties she can ask while she is in process, and we can seize those learning moments!

[boscopup]

I don't think AAS would necessarily help in this instance. If he knows the phonics and rules and such and knows how to apply them, but just isn't spelling some things correctly in his writing, it's probably just that the skill of spelling and the skill of writing haven't combined yet. SWB mentions this in her writing lecture, that it's normal for a child to not spell well outside of spelling time in the early elementary years (I think she said on into 3rd or 4th grade? I can't remember for sure). That made sense to me. Afterall, I'm working on separate skills for writing now - copywork (physical act of writing), narration (coming up with a good thought), dictation (holding a thought in one's head long enough to write it down). Those skills are expected to gradually come together over a period of 4 years. It makes sense to me that the skill of spelling would *also* gradually come together with those other skills over those 4 years (grades 1-4).

 

Now if you want some extra practice, you might look at just a studied dictation program, like Spelling Wisdom, Simply Spelling, etc. I've heard a lot of people say their kids started applying to their writing once they started such a program. I've eyed Simply Spelling myself, as it gives practice with syllabication and such, and it's only $10 as a PDF for grades 3-12. My son isn't ready for it yet (and he's not grade 3, nor does he have the writing capability of a 3rd grader).

 

My son uses AAS. He knows the rules really well (better than I do!), and he notices words when he's reading and will mention why they're spelled that way. He spells perfectly during spelling time, including the dictation sentences (which contain a mix of words from various steps up to that point). He will still make silly spelling mistakes in original writing, and I fully expect that. He doesn't do much original writing yet anyway, but if he is doing original writing, he's focusing *so* much on the physical act of writing those words and keeping the thought in his head, as well as coming up with a thought in the first place... spelling just isn't ready to be part of that process yet. I have no doubt that in a few years, he'll have no problem spelling during original writing though. He's pretty close now, and applies the spelling rules better than I expected him to, and I have seen some of it applied to his original writing, but he's still going to misspell words sometimes. Usually I can just say "Does that look right?" and he'll correct it. It's kind of like a letter reversal. Same thing. "Does that look right?", and he notices right away that his 'd' ended up a 'b' or vice versa. Or his 's' ended up an '8'. :tongue_smilie:

[daybreaking]

I haven't used R&S, but it sounds like it is a solid, phonics-rules based program. If you have a solid, phonics-based program and you are doing what you said above, that's a recipe for success!

 

I try to stay near my daughter when she is writing, so if she has any uncertainties she can ask while she is in process, and we can seize those learning moments!

 

Yes, R&S is a very solid, phonics rules based program. The rules it teaches are actually very close to AAS. You've encouraged me to stay the course with what we're doing. :001_smile:

 

I don't think AAS would necessarily help in this instance. If he knows the phonics and rules and such and knows how to apply them, but just isn't spelling some things correctly in his writing, it's probably just that the skill of spelling and the skill of writing haven't combined yet. SWB mentions this in her writing lecture, that it's normal for a child to not spell well outside of spelling time in the early elementary years (I think she said on into 3rd or 4th grade? I can't remember for sure). That made sense to me. Afterall, I'm working on separate skills for writing now - copywork (physical act of writing), narration (coming up with a good thought), dictation (holding a thought in one's head long enough to write it down). Those skills are expected to gradually come together over a period of 4 years. It makes sense to me that the skill of spelling would *also* gradually come together with those other skills over those 4 years (grades 1-4).

 

Now if you want some extra practice, you might look at just a studied dictation program, like Spelling Wisdom, Simply Spelling, etc. I've heard a lot of people say their kids started applying to their writing once they started such a program. I've eyed Simply Spelling myself, as it gives practice with syllabication and such, and it's only $10 as a PDF for grades 3-12. My son isn't ready for it yet (and he's not grade 3, nor does he have the writing capability of a 3rd grader).

 

My son uses AAS. He knows the rules really well (better than I do!), and he notices words when he's reading and will mention why they're spelled that way. He spells perfectly during spelling time, including the dictation sentences (which contain a mix of words from various steps up to that point). He will still make silly spelling mistakes in original writing, and I fully expect that. He doesn't do much original writing yet anyway, but if he is doing original writing, he's focusing *so* much on the physical act of writing those words and keeping the thought in his head, as well as coming up with a thought in the first place... spelling just isn't ready to be part of that process yet. I have no doubt that in a few years, he'll have no problem spelling during original writing though. He's pretty close now, and applies the spelling rules better than I expected him to, and I have seen some of it applied to his original writing, but he's still going to misspell words sometimes. Usually I can just say "Does that look right?" and he'll correct it. It's kind of like a letter reversal. Same thing. "Does that look right?", and he notices right away that his 'd' ended up a 'b' or vice versa. Or his 's' ended up an '8'. :tongue_smilie:

 

Thank you for such a thorough answer. This is the kind of information I needed. Earlier today, I was ready to order AAS. Now I'm thinking we're doing all we need and it's just a matter of everything coming together for my ds. It's interesting you mentioned the value of studied dictation, as we recently decided to add in HOD's studied dictation. I've heard great things about it, so I'm interested to see how it helps my ds. :001_smile: