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FLVS AP courses online? I called the office and was told that they do not offer a


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text for their AP Bio class. What in the world???? Has your student taken this class via FLVS? How was their experience with no text?

 

Well, they did 3 years ago! Ds received Campbell's Biology (the one with the pelican) and all of the lab equipment and supplies in the mail. I think he also had access to an online text. I would call again and possibly follow-up with a guidance counselor.

 

Actually, though, that was the only AP class in which my dc received a textbook. None for AP Environmental, AP English Lang & Comp or AP Macroeconomics. For macroeconomics, my ds ended up printing lots of material b/c he needed to highlight it and mark it up. It wasn't a problem in the other classes.

 

You know, as I'm typing this, I think the Fla. legislature recently passed a law that will transition schools to online texts. I've seen some mention of this on e-mails I receive from my local schools, but I haven't researched it yet. I wonder if FLVS is leading the way here (in an effort to cut expenses).

 

If the class gives access to Campbell's online only, you could always buy a used copy and resell it at year's end.

 

Would you mind letting me know what you find out? I may have one taking this class in the near future.

 

Thanks!

Lisa

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I don't have much experience with FLVS, and one of the things that has kept me away from it is the lack of a text. I investigated Algebra a few years ago. I got many texts from the library - some were easy, some were challenging, some were in-between. Because FLVS does not use a text (not for Algebra at least), where the program lies in the spectrum is unknown. It's a gamble as far as I'm concerned.

 

I did contact FLVS in Feb 2009 and asked about AP statistics. Here was my question:

Good Morning,

 

Can you provide any statistics on the percentage of student who complete the AP classes that:

(a) Take the AP exam

(b) Receive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

 

Here was the response:

I am going to have to round off a bit on the percent of test takers. About 60% (a little less I think - maybe 58%) of our AP students took the exam. Of those:

14.7% made a 5

20.3% made a 4

20.3% made a 3

22.1% made a 2

22.6% made a 1

 

If you would like to give me a call we can provide some more complete data depending on the circumstances and your need. We will be glad to assist.

 

Lowell Moore

Florida Virtual School Counselor

Serving Students in 32 Districts throughout Florida

http://www.flvs.net/students/advisement

Email: Lmoore@FLVS.net

(407) 513-3514

 

So, once they answer your question about the text, you might want to ask for their statistics specific to the AP Biology test.

 

My 2c.

Edited by Sue in St Pete
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Also, it is now mandatory for the student who is taking an AP class to take the AP exam. That just seems like common sense to me, but my friend's dd tells me that the kids at PS take FLVS classes, along with CC classes to buffer their GPA's.

 

NO TEXT????? Really????? :confused:

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Also, it is now mandatory for the student who is taking an AP class to take the AP exam. That just seems like common sense to me, but my friend's dd tells me that the kids at PS take FLVS classes, along with CC classes to buffer their GPA's.

 

NO TEXT????? Really????? :confused:

 

Okay, I'm not defending FLVS or their AP classes, I promise. However, I guess I don't understand why not having a physical text is such a huge deal?

 

My daughter took their AP Microeconics class several years ago. The course used an online text.

 

Between them, my kids have taken a BUNCH of FLVS classes, most of which do not require or use physical texts. All of the information is online, sometimes within the structure of the course, sometimes with an online text.

 

It's not like they're not getting the information. They're just getting it from a source that doesn't have to be shipped to them.

 

I guess I don't see the problem?

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Oh, what a bummer. This has got to be due to cost-saving measures. However, I wouldn't let the lack of a text alone keep me from the class. You could always purchase a hard copy to have at home

 

FWIW, we have found that the FLVS AP classes solidly prepare for the exam. (::fingers crossed; 3 more scores in a few weeks. ::) So, while we have a couple beefs with FLVS, preparation for the exams is not one of them. Oldest took AP bio in 10th grade and scored a 4. We were happy; this mama helped not one iota (well, I bought some prep books) and he learned a lot.

 

Also, the overall AP scores for Florida were even lower the FLVS stat scores (not a direct comparison as it compares overall scores to Stat scores which I'm sure is a statistical problem, but still. :D). Here are the 2010 scores

 

5 7.8%

4 13.4%

3 21.0%

2 23.8%

1 34.0%

 

We've also had a great experience with PA Homeschoolers for an AP class that wasn't offered with FLVS.

 

HTH,

Lisa

 

ETA: I would want a hard copy for my dc as well. Really, whether you go with FLVS or another provider, you would be buying a book.

Edited by FloridaLisa
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Okay, I'm not defending FLVS or their AP classes, I promise. However, I guess I don't understand why not having a physical text is such a huge deal?

...

I guess I don't see the problem?

Please don't think I'm attacking FLVS either. I know several people that have used FLVS successfully. Having a physical text is comforting to me. Knowing that the physical text is respected is comforting to me. I'm old fashioned I suppose.

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Okay, I'm not defending FLVS or their AP classes, I promise. However, I guess I don't understand why not having a physical text is such a huge deal?

 

 

I guess I don't see the problem?

 

 

...to me, I cannot imagine taking a course without having a hard copy text to look through, highlight, flip back and forth, etc. Maybe I am old school and it isn't such a big deal?

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Did you know that a student has up to three times to re-submit work without being penalized in order to improve their grades?

 

What do you think of that?

 

Well, that's one of my beefs. And the oral tests/reviews with the teacher cannot be resubmitted.

 

Students cannot resubmit module exams or semester exams. And for a few assignments, the back and forth is productive as the teacher can make comments on an essay, for example, and the student can rework it and resubmit.

 

It does drive me crazy that routine homeworkish assignments can be resubmitted. I tell my kids that is not the real world.

 

Lisa

 

ETA: Are you in Florida? There are 2 big reasons we use FLVS for high school Latin and AP classes: it's free and it's accredited. The latter speaks to our state schools and can save a hurdle or two.

Edited by FloridaLisa
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...to me, I cannot imagine taking a course without having a hard copy text to look through, highlight, flip back and forth, etc. Maybe I am old school and it isn't such a big deal?

Yes, I like to highlight and use as a reference. I've pulled out ds's old Algebra text several times this year. Had he taken Algebra through FLVS, I'd have nothing to reference or I'd have to reference a text he is completely unfamiliar with.

 

However, I think this will become a generational difference. I do not retain information as well when I read off a screen vs. read in a book and highlight key information and review several times. Ds will reference texts and/or online material as needed. However, most online material I've encountered had no index to find reference points.

 

Did you know that a student has up to three times to re-submit work without being penalized in order to improve their grades?

 

What do you think of that?

Ds took keyboarding in JH through FLVS, so I do know this. It's another reason I don't have a favorable opinion of FLVS. OTOH, FLVS is fully accredited. Colleges, universities, and the NCAA will never question the validity of the grades. I might, though. Thankfully, ds was not thrilled with FLVS either. He is the type who would learn very quickly how to get a good grade but learn nothing.

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Did you know that a student has up to three times to re-submit work without being penalized in order to improve their grades?

 

What do you think of that?

 

That's how pretty much all of the FLVS classes work.

 

Daily assignments are submitted and can then be corrected and re-submitted. I don't view it as soley to "improve their grades," but as an opportunity to master the material.

 

Different assignments have different rules. Most multiple choice and short-answer assignments get two submissions. Some especially demanding ones might have more.

 

Exams are one shot deals.

 

Daily assignments are like homework. They are learning opportunities.

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Having a physical text is comforting to me. Knowing that the physical text is respected is comforting to me. I'm old fashioned I suppose.

 

...to me, I cannot imagine taking a course without having a hard copy text to look through, highlight, flip back and forth, etc. Maybe I am old school and it isn't such a big deal?

 

Huh.

 

That might be why I don't see it as a big deal. I don't recall ever in my life highlighting a text. I took notes on my own paper when necessary, but I don't remember ever writing in a book.

 

(And I doubt it's generational for me. I left high school in 1981.)

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Did you know that a student has up to three times to re-submit work without being penalized in order to improve their grades?

 

What do you think of that?

 

I actually view this as a positive about FLVS courses. If a student doesn't understand a concept and gets a less-than-desired grade on an assignment, he can read the feedback from the teacher to see what he got wrong. Then he can go back to the lesson, review it, and/or seek info from additional resources to better understand the concept. Finally, the student attempts the assignment again to see if he's mastered the concept. To me, that's the way education is supposed to work. You don't move on until you *get* the concept.

 

When my son went to public school and handed in his homework, he usually just got a grade (rarely with any feedback) on his paper. Sometimes he never even received the paper back -- the teacher just graded it, recorded the grade and either tossed the homework or filed it. How can a student correct his mistake and learn how to do it right if he doesn't get feedback?

 

Also, with the FLVS courses my sons have taken, there isn't a lot of repetitive lessons or daily homework, like there is in public school. So sometimes kids do need a bit more practice in a concept, and a resubmission accomplishes that without bogging them down with unnecessary busy-work. The resubmits are their homework/reinforcement if and when they need it.

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While I certainly agree with alot of the comments about FLVS, but as far as the text issue, or lack thereof, well, that is kind of the way of the world these days. Your child can expect many, if not all, of their college courses to be the same way with either no textbooks, or online versions, in a few years.

 

 

I mean, just look at online courses now. I certainly did not have that option in high school, or my first go-around at college. At my second go-around at college, about 10 years ago, we were able to choose some classes to take at home, and were given VHS tapes of the lecture to watch, submitted papers via email, and went to campus for tests. Just look at how technology has changed (and hey, I am only in my mid-30's so I am not talking that many years ago in the grand scheme of life).

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My dd took AP Bio last year through FLVS and they *did* provide a text...Campbell's Biology. They also provided most of the required lab materials and the lab manual, all of which (except consummables) were to be returned at the end of the year.

 

As far as the opportunity to resubmit lessons, I think this is a good thing. Isn't that similar to what most homeschoolers do...teach the lesson, have student complete assignments, review assignments, have students make corrections? It is an opportunity to teach to "mastery". Keep in mind, as other posters have explained, the exams may only be submitted once.

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Also, it is now mandatory for the student who is taking an AP class to take the AP exam. That just seems like common sense to me, but my friend's dd tells me that the kids at PS take FLVS classes, along with CC classes to buffer their GPA's.

 

NO TEXT????? Really????? :confused:

 

Did you know that a student has up to three times to re-submit work without being penalized in order to improve their grades?

 

What do you think of that?

So, if your child has an option to take the same class via CC, do you, would you, do the FLVS AP class instead?

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So, if your child has an option to take the same class via CC, do you, would you, do the FLVS AP class instead?

I would think it would depend on the child and his/her ambitions.

 

For me, I think ds would learn better at CC rather than through FLVS. If ds had a desire to go to a highly selective university, I might have him complete a CC class, then study and take the AP exam. From what I understand, some universities prefer AP since it is at least standardized over the possibly unknown quality of CC.

 

Then there is the pace factor. A semester of CC = a year of FLVS AP. Which pace is better for your student?

 

Oh yeah, don't forget to consult the universities your dc wants to attend. In our case, that would be none, since he has no clue where he wants to attend. But, they may look more favorably upon one over the other.

 

One other factor to consider is logistics. I have an only child who will have access to a vehicle the day he gets his driver's license. If I had to transport ds back and forth for years with other dc in tow, it might make a difference. Online is definitely more convenient.

 

So, where do you think your dc would learn better? What are his/her ambitions?

 

My thoughts. What are yours?

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The most important thing to me is to make sure that when my kids leave my home, they are well educated and ready to face the challenges of higher education with confidence and skill. And truly, I don't believe that they will get and more rigor at a CC than what we can do at home, and via PH, TPS, etc. Math, however, is one area that I will consider CC, as I am no math whiz.

 

That said, one of my people wants to have as many Gen. Eds out of the way before hitting university so that the core studies can be focused on from the onset. HOWEVER, do I REALLY want said child taking classes at a CC level, only to go off to university and have the CC classes be the foundation to be for later studies? The answer is a resounding "no". But to pass up the the opportunity to fulfill credits, both for hs and college....

 

Really, I don't know. I really don't know. I need to pray. I need to pray. I need to pray.

 

And...I'm so embarrassed to put my indecisiveness out here for y'all to see. I'm just so bewildered about this. Thanks for being willing to listen and offer direction. :)

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If I felt that I could provide more rigor without CC, and had ds's cooperation, I would do it. Realistically, I can't.

 

HOWEVER, do I REALLY want said child taking classes at a CC level, only to go off to university and have the CC classes be the foundation to be for later studies? The answer is a resounding "no".

 

Even if the CC has 40 students per class where perhaps the university has many, many more per Ged Ed class? I'm a bit of an academic snob. I look at CC as a really good high school. Frankly, I would not be upset if ds chose to go to a university that did not accept many of his CC credits. Based on how hard he wants to work, though, it probably won't happen. :tongue_smilie:

 

And...I'm so embarrassed to put my indecisiveness out here for y'all to see. I'm just so bewildered about this. Thanks for being willing to listen and offer direction. :)

One of the things I love about this forum is that it helps me ferret out my options. FWIW, your indecisiveness shows your dedication to your children. :thumbup: I don't see that as something to be embarrassed about.

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I go round and round about this, Sue. I do think we're holding off one more semester for CC, just so we can have a heavy courseload, sports, other extras b/c I want him Ready before he gets there. I do know there are classes there for him I won't teach at home anyways and I don't like that much of FLVS is so heavily project based. We just finished HOPE there and it was so UNNECESSARILY project based that the boys ended up Not liking the class. Math, on the other hand...why not! I just keep wondering, what do I want him to do at home, then have to also do at college. Which classes are worth repeating and which are not. I can never decide, but I find myself trying and wanting to wipe out the redundancy.

 

I, too, am glad to be able to think through so many things here. It's been a long-term blessing for sure!

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