Gifted 5yo, struggling 8yo...combining?

[Sue G in PA]

Here is my dilemma. I have a very bright and advanced 5yo. She is reading well above her age level yet has had very little formal instruction. She's just always LOVED books, being read to, etc. Every now and again, we go through The Reading Lesson, but mostly we just read, read, read. Dd5 has a super-sharp memory and that aids in her reading ability. Read it once and she has committed it to memory. Math is much the same. She picked up a Singapore 1A workbook I was "saving" for her and did about a dozen lessons...on.her.own. Her handwriting is the only thing that is what I would consider "normal" for her age, kwim? Okay, so then I have my ds8 who is also very bright but struggles with the very things that come soooo easily for dd5. Reading is a chore. He tries so hard but he struggles. He can read a word fifty times and still have to sound it out every single time. Make sense? I don't think he has any vision tracking issues, but I'm not dismissing that. He is okay with math...it is easier for him than reading. Handwriting is getting better...much better...but is still a bit illegible and sloppy (typical boy, IMO). I was combining them both in HOD LHFHG this year but both complained that many of the activities were "babyish". And, ds8 hated (I mean really hated) doing schoolwork with his sister. He really resents her. My heart breaks for him b/c he tries soooo hard and really WANTS to read. I also don't want to hold dd5 back just b/c ds8 is "jealous". I was going to move them both into HOD Beyond asap b/c skill-wise, that is where they BOTH place. However, I'm really feeling like I need to separate them. Does any of this make sense? How can I make this work? Combine yet separate? How can I boost ds8's confidence w/out holding dd5 back AND keep them in the same HOD guide? If you have read this far, thank you. I'm really struggling with this. FWIW...I would really like to continue using HOD with them. Thanks. :D

[soonermomma]

I don't have any advice for you, I just wanted to tell you I feel your pain. I could have written this EXACT post. My girls are 5 and 8 also. I have not combined their work yet, but we are working towards that. I am prepping them now, by telling them that is my goal is to be able to teach them together. The only thing I think the little one won't catch the older one in for a while is English. That is dd8's really strong area! Good luck figuring out a solution that works for your family!:grouphug:

[wapiti]

When I read your post, I see red flags... very bright but struggles with reading, reading is a chore, tries so hard, really wants to read, etc., and has a very bright sibling. I feel like I keep seeing these problems show up (on the boards) in 8 year olds. I would not hesitate to rule out the vision angle, first, as is already in the back of your mind. It's easy enough to do and with these concerns, I'd say it's important to get done. (see a covd optometrist.) Beyond that, I'd begin mulling over dyslexia.

 

I'd try your best to keep them separate on the curriculum. Is it reading level that puts them in the same HOD level? (Forgive me, I'm not familiar with HOD) Is there any way they could be at different levels?

[deacongirl]

When I read your post, I see red flags... very bright but struggles with reading, reading is a chore, tries so hard, really wants to read, etc., and has a very bright sibling. I feel like I keep seeing these problems show up (on the boards) in 8 year olds. I would not hesitate to rule out the vision angle, first, as is already in the back of your mind. It's easy enough to do and with these concerns, I'd say it's important to get done. (see a covd optometrist.) Beyond that, I'd begin mulling over dyslexia.

 

I'd try your best to keep them separate on the curriculum. Is it reading level that puts them in the same HOD level? (Forgive me, I'm not familiar with HOD) Is there any way they could be at different levels?

 

I would get a full eval for your 8 yr. old and read up on 2e kids--it seems likely there is something more going on here that needs to be understood.

[joannqn]

I would get a full eval for your 8 yr. old and read up on 2e kids--it seems likely there is something more going on here that needs to be understood.

 

:iagree:

 

IQ is usually very similar among family members, thus both of them should be forging ahead well. That doesn't mean they both have to be equally good at the same subjects, but they should both be showing similar levels of achievement in general.

[lmkzbcb]

I agee with the evals for 8 yr. old. I had that done for mine. In her case, I thought it was hearing, but turned out she could hear fine. It was nice knowing that wasn't it and we could move on to other reasons.

 

I separated mine. It is more difficult on me, having to run from room to room, but they have no idea what the other is doing. I gave some subjects at grade level, one above grade, and some on lower level. Then told ds he was "all over the board" on grade level for different subjects. I kept reassuring him that many people learn different subjects at different paces. I try to have atleast 1 subject (even if it is a traditionally easy subject) that is above his grade level so it kinda counters the lower ones, and lets me say "see, you do so well in this, and just need a little extra in that". Has worked well so far.

 

I do not tell the other how far ahead they are.

Edited May 5, 2011 by lmkzbcb

[In The Great White North]

I would separate also, especially for English and math. Even if they are currently at the same level, the 5 year old is going to go faster on a daily basis and that is going to irritate the 8 year old to no end. And if you make the 5 year old wait for the 8 year old every day, it will irritate her to no end also. No one will be happy, least of all you.

 

The things that will work well for combining are history, science and art - with read-alouds, videos, field trips and lab activities - at no particular level.

[Dobela]

I would separate also, especially for English and math. Even if they are currently at the same level, the 5 year old is going to go faster on a daily basis and that is going to irritate the 8 year old to no end. And if you make the 5 year old wait for the 8 year old every day, it will irritate her to no end also. No one will be happy, least of all you.

 

The things that will work well for combining are history, science and art - with read-alouds, videos, field trips and lab activities - at no particular level.

:iagree: I would separate for everything except history, math,art as well. If the 8 yo is struggling, he may already be labeling himself as dumb or stupid, even if you don't know it. Having a constant reminder that he can't do what a 5yo can could cause some serious problems. Honestly, if it was me, I wouldn't even have them using the same curriculum for reading, math or grammar.

[....]

Wow, you have a very similar situation to us. I've posted about this before, but our 9 yro was identified as gifted, I think the 6 yro is gifted and we've got 8 yro Skater Dude. If you read Boys Adrift (here, I'm quoting that book again), the author says that boys can be behind as a gender until about 4th grade. At 4th grade, they start making some huge academic jumps and they catch up to girls.

 

OK, but if you think he needs an evaluation, I would take him for one.

 

I would keep the 8 yro away from the 5 yro during school.

 

The sounding out words while your son reads...did he recently learn to read (I know there are better late than early approaches), if so, it takes a while before they read without doing that - all of my kids read that way until somewhere in 1st grade. :confused:

 

My 8 yro's handwriting is ok. It was much worse. It looked like alien spacecraft code most of the time. :tongue_smilie: And, he didn't care. As long as he can bring his light saber to school with him.

 

My son (who struggled with reading) seems to be very strong in math and science. Your son might be very left-brained.

 

Does he have any specific interests? Maybe he could work on a mini-class or a unit study based on his interest. That would make him feel like he's doing something the 5 yro is not doing and give him some confidence with schoolwork.

 

I also have a comment on getting boys to read. I know educators say that letting them read "junky reading" is bad - you know what I'm referring to...comics or Diary of a Wimpy Kid or Star Wars readers... My son has been devouring Diary of a Wimpy Kid, Captain Underpants, Star Wars DK Readers, etc. What 8 yro boy wouldn't want to read about the world's biggest wedgie? :tongue_smilie:

 

I don't have the greatest advice, but I've been on that boat, too. :grouphug:

[TXMomof4]

I have this same situation, except switch gender. The youngest of 3 girls, and the baby boy. That's already a tough dynamic - she's the baby girl, he's the baby. She's got a little SPD - which makes everything harder. Then she has just struggled to read. Just now - in the last 4 months she seems to have come into her own, somewhat.

 

So - all that to say, I have no advice. DS isn't quite 5, so I've been putting him off a little. I did send him to preschool this year, but next year I'm not sure what to do. DD already thinks she's the "dumb one" because she knows he can read already. He chooses the books she just finished 6 months ago and it puts the pressure on her. Unfortunately, the pressure makes her act out, rather than picking up a harder book.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: This is no fun. I've actually contemplated PS just because of this situation.

[lmkzbcb]

Had another thought for you this am.

What about a tutor? Is that feasible for your family? Our state's library system offers tutoring servies for free to any school aged child. Maybe your state has something like that?

I have noticed that homeschoolers are often so used to having to do everything themselves; that we don't look at outsourcing. Whereas if our kids were in a school institution and the teacher said they were struggling, we wouldn't hesitate to get them out sourced help.

Just an idea you may want to consider.

[Gratia271]

As others have said, the first thing to do is rule out any underlying learning issues that might be contributing to this. If that doesn't apply, then you may be dealing with (1)different learning styles; (2)boys are vastly different than girls.... I have boy-girl twins. ;)

 

My situation is somewhat different than yours in that the issues around here are with my twins. Their learning styles are vastly different, and curricula that works with one doesn't work with the other etc.. . Similar to you, my biggest concern is the perception my daughter has that she is not bright. It has caused me much distress as a mom to hear her say these things about herself. It is patently false, as she is also highly gifted; however, perception is reality for many people. Children (at least mine) are no exception.

 

Using different curricula has helped somewhat. Another idea which may or may not help you at all but has helped around here too is a discussion about different strengths and weaknesses. My husband and I are polar opposites in our "talents". We have had many discussions with our children about this in the hope that they (particularly K) will realize you can be really great at some things but not others.... and you are still exceedingly bright. I willingly discuss with them the things that I am abject failure at in contrast with my husband who is incredibly talented in the same areas.... and vice versa. Having such stark differences b/w DH and I has allayed some of the concern.

 

The other aspect is the boy-girl distinction. I have said this in other posts, but it may be relevant here since you are discussing reading. The two men I am closest two (brother and husband) are both PG and were non-readers in the early years. They were subjected to testing to rule out learning disabilities only to discover their high IQs. There is not always a learning disability involved; sometimes it is simply lack of interest or motivation. One of the most significant distinctions I have discovered b/w the genders, well at least b/w DH and I as well as between my son and my daughters is MOTIVATION. If DH or son is motivated to do something, it gets done period. If they are not, good luck! :glare: This is not the case with my daughters or me. If something needs to be done, we generally do it regardless of interest or motivation. I have observed this countless times with all of the men in my family. It has to be relevant or of interest to them. This makes schooling my son more difficult in that I have to create relevance. I think this is the cause of most of my headaches for the past three years! Anyway, that may account for some of what you are experiencing too.

[....]

This is no fun. I've actually contemplated PS just because of this situation.

 

We actually did ps for a while and it made everything 3000 times worse. Everything seemed very amplified. Our pediatrician said something like how I was so used to meeting everyone's needs that everybody's issues weren't very noticeable anymore.

 

Also, I don't post much about my son (but this might help somebody out there), but he went to ps kindergarten and was being pulled out of class to work with the special ed lady. If I described him, people might think he had an LD. The school district had him tested and he scored around the 90th percentile on the Naglieri (at age 5) and he had a play-based interview with a teacher. She came out of the room raving about him. This sounds horrible, but it was a big surprise to me. He seemed like a deer in headlights during ANY schoolwork. His teacher was having him work with the special ed lady... :confused: Also, I pulled him out of ps at the beginning of 1st grade and he still didn't know his letter sounds. In a nutshell, he doesn't seem like a model student.

 

Anyway, I've seen a lot of changes this year...he's only one Singapore workbook away from his sister in math...we were doing a class on Simple Machines and he figured out the pulley while I was ready to throw the kit up against the wall...he showed me how to do something on the computer recently...:blushing:

 

I don't know if that helped the conversation...Dudes are a mystery, aren't they?! :confused:

[happypamama]

This is not my personal situation, but having been the kid with a particularly gifted younger sibling (I was a great student, but my brother who is two years behind me was especially gifted in math), I can say that it's really not much fun to be looking over your shoulder and wondering if the younger sibling is going to surpass you. For a child who is already struggling, I think that could be even worse. I'm not familiar with the curriculum you're considering, but I would not put them together for things like English and math. For other subjects, I'm all for combining (and do that with my children) and just giving age-appropriate work for each of them. If they're working at the same level for English and math, I think I'd look for different curricula for each so it wasn't so obvious.

[Chris in VA]

Hi Sue,

I've never used HOD but I do like the way it looks!

One thing I noticed (just hopped over to look at it again) is that there are 3 sets of books suggested for literature. Maybe separating the read alouds somewhat might help. There's a classic, a boy's interest, and a girls' interest set of books--maybe gleaning from those? You could separate their readers, too--maybe take a look at Sonlight for that.

 

I might separate their math curriculum--put your girl in Singapore, and your boy in something else ( I like Saxon, but I don't think you do, correct? LOL). If you can keep them together for history activities and history spine reading, would that be ok? You could keep them together in science, too, probably--but maybe have them do some separate worksheets or something. Or you could vary their assignments--would you have time this summer to put together a small workbook out of worksheets and assignment pages for each of them? You could adjust assignments to your kids' strengths--so they'd cover the same goal, but approach it differently (I'm thinking maybe make the youngest write more, and have the older one build something or do a hands on thing, or draw something and describe it, or something like that).

 

I know there's a lot on your plate, trying not to add more.

[merry gardens]

I have a similar situation, except they're about a year and a half older, and I have more children. My 7 yo daughter starts and finishes her Singapore mathbooks on her own. Everytime that I did one lesson in the textbook and sent her to do the workbook, she'd do several workbook exercises without me.

 

Some subject we combine as a larger group, and some things we do separately.

 

I use a lot of special education materials developed for people with dyslexia. My ds (9 1/2) needed these materials to learn to read. Some of the special education materials work great with my younger daughter too, not because she "needs" them, but because she enjoys them. She picked up on reading at age five by primarily participating in sand paper letters and phonograms that I got for her brother who was having trouble. The special ed materials we use are geared towards teaching children in a very hands-on and playful fashion. She giggles with delight as she works with letter tiles! My sister was in gifted programs at school and I remember being jealous when she showed me some of the fun things she got to play with in her gifted classes. There is a great deal of over-lap between the teaching styles used for children at both extremes.

 

I combine teach in areas like history and science, rather than language arts. I find materials that involves hands-on learning or I read the material out loud, and I don't give many writing assignments in shared subjects. I avoid anything that may look like "competition" with the reading between my children. (My 9 yo son is very competive and I know he'd take it hard if his little sister "beat" him.) My 7 yo daughter is able to work with materials designed for children above her grade level, but I'm careful that it's not so far above her grade level to cover topics that are inappropriate for her age.

 

In language arts area, I use the same special ed materials for all my kids, but I tutor them separately. My 9 1/2 you son needs intense Orton-Gillingham style phonics work daily, while I only do it once or twice a week for a lot less time with the others. I took a little time-off from worked with my 7 yo on this for a while because she was able to de-code far above her ability to comprehend. She's working with some special ed reading comprehension materials now that are technically above her "grade level" but appropriate for her.

 

For whatever it's worth, that's what I've done. I feel like I should be doing more with her, but I don't know what. I haven't decided if I'll work with my daughter over the summer or take a break and resume in the fall. I need a break, but I also need to continue working with my son over the summer.

[Sue G in PA]

Thanks everyone. I try to keep them separate for math and la. We do phonics lessons separately, in separate rooms. Ds8 is ahead of dd5 by one Singapore guide. He is in 1B while she is in 1A. I really don't think we are dealing w/ dyslexia but vision tracking...I don't know. He CAN read. He is just not fluent and has difficulty. He has improved and IS constantly improving. I'm not worried about him so much as I am just worried about the comparisions that he seems to be making btwn himself and dd5. Dh and I NEVER compare them and we always encourage ds8, praise his achievements and his efforts. I don't know what to do about the HOD guides. Ds8 hates doing ANYTHING with dd5...history, science, art, etc. We can't even read the same bedtime story anymore. It's crazy. Chris, I do like your idea of different read-alouds. Perhaps my dh can read one to ds8 and I can read with dd5.