New & need help with math

[mom2l&j]

I am starting to plan what we will be using for curriculum next year. DD will be in 6th grade and her school has been using Everyday Mathmatics. Unfortunately, her ITBS for the last 2 years have shown a severe problem with math computation skills. (Last year I figured She rated in the bottom 12% this year.

 

I had her try placement tests for Singapore...it is not even a possibility for her. Tonight I had her start the Saxon 5/4 placement. I explained that this wasn't a "test" it was just to see where she was at so I could find the right place to start for next year. As soon as she started she melted down.

 

"It's a word problem. I can't do word problems. They have too much information and I can't figure out what I need. Can you read it to me?"

 

"Math isn't my thing"

 

"My teacher said we didn't have to memorize that, we can use a calculator."

 

"I'm never going to need to know how to divide 3600 by 9!"

 

She completed 12 problems before I told her to go ahead and be done for the night. She got 4 of the 12 wrong.

 

I'm wondering if I just need to start next year reviewing addition, subtraction, multiplication tables and then division. I need to build her up. Right now she's written math off.

 

Any suggestions?

[Halcyon]

My suggestion is to not write off Singapore. Start where she needs to start, even if that's 2A or 2B. I really believe that if you start slowly, build her confidence, play some math games, that you will be able to get through it more quickly than you imagine. RIght now, it sounds like her math confidence is very, very low. Start slow. Start where she is at. Don't overthink what "GRADE" she's placing into, hard as it is. Grade level means little if they are not able to do the work.

[mom2l&j]

My suggestion is to not write off Singapore. Start where she needs to start, even if that's 2A or 2B. I really believe that if you start slowly, build her confidence, play some math games, that you will be able to get through it more quickly than you imagine. RIght now, it sounds like her math confidence is very, very low. Start slow. Start where she is at. Don't overthink what "GRADE" she's placing into, hard as it is. Grade level means little if they are not able to do the work.

 

Thank you. I guess I was worried that starting her at her level will actually put her below her brother going in to 3rd grade. I guess it doesn't matter where she starts as long as she progresses. I just printed off the Singapore 2 placement test. Thanks!

[almondbutterandjelly]

I agree with pp. I actually recommend 1B as a good starting place. It really explores the reason and the story behind multiplying and dividing. Levels in Singapore don't necessarily correlate with US grade levels. And it would get her confidence up, and you would probably be able to advance through them fairly quickly once some key ideas are absorbed. But start slowly and work for understanding. And please work with her, don't just leave her to it. If she's hands on, you'll need the home instructor guide and manipulatives. If she's not but is a visual learner, then go through the textbook together taking time to explore the pictures. (I still found manipulatives good for some basic concepts like place value and measurement and shapes). singaporemath.com has manipulatives on their website.

[Christie_P]

We chose to go with Math Mammoth this year which is a mastery based program similar to Singapore. It may be preferable because the author, Maria Miller, has everything from her graded curriculum (which is the Light Blue series) arranged in topical form as well (the Dark Blue or Blue series)

 

So each book in the Blue series starts from basic concepts and takes you to mastery level without worrying about what "grade" you are in. Great for filling in the gaps for an older student without making them feel bad for having to work below grade level.

 

Here is her page with guidelines to help you know which Blue books you might need (and they are all affordable: $3 - $7 each)

http://www.mathmammoth.com/placement.php

 

Here is a page recommending which of the books can be studied simultaneously:

http://www.mathmammoth.com/study_order.php

 

Hope this helps!

ALSO - you can email Maria Miller your placement results from her placement tests (http://www.mathmammoth.com/complete/placement_tests.php ) and she says "You can also email me with your test results if you have trouble deciding which Blue Series book you should use for such remedial work."

 

I've emailed her several times for various things (i.e. made a suggestion or found a typo in the answer key) and she always emails back within 2-3 days!

 

HOPE THIS HELPS!

[purplebrooklyn]

I feel for you.....

 

I would go back to Singapore 1B and get the basics down.

 

Mammoth Math is very inexpensive and works really well with Singapore. You could easily do Singapore lessons WITH her, and then let her do Math Mammoth on her own.

 

It will be a challenge at first for her worrying about doing 1st or 2nd grade level work. But it sounds like it is what needs to happen. No need to sugar coat it, JUST DO IT.

[NittanyJen]

I third . . . or fourth . . . the suggestion to go with Singapore, and if need be, also with Math Mammoth. It's pretty inexpensive, and it's about her, not about the grade levels.

 

Another option would be to let her try Khan Academy topics (http://www.khanacademy.org) and do the exercises online. If she gets stuck, she can click on watching a video to get a teacher on youtube showing her how to solve that kind of problem, and then go back to the problem she was working on without breaking her "streak" of correct answers. (there are even rewards to earn for watching the teaching videos).

 

But if the internet option is not for you, we use Singapore for one kid, and Math Mammoth as extra practice for another, and both programs are great.

 

Jen

[Momling]

I would choose math mammoth for your daughter over Singapore. The lower level Singapore books just *look* babyish. Math Mammoth will give her just as strong a foundation and is ungraded (if using the blue series or printing off the pdfs). Put your son in Singapore and let your daughter have the book that looks more grown up. Plus you don't need your daughter feeling worse about her performance in math as she compares herself to her brother.

[Chelli]

I would also put her in MM just so she doesn't feel like she is "stupid" because her book is a lower level than her brother's (not saying she is stupid because I don't believe that AT ALL, just using 6th grade terminology).

 

Review those addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division facts like CRAZY!!! I didn't learn mine until the summer between 3rd and 4th grade because my mom (the math teacher) realized that I was still counting on my fingers. Every day that summer we did math fact drills and by the end of the summer I knew them with no problems. So it probably wouldn't take her very long to learn them. She will complain (heavens knows I did!), but she will appreciate it later (heavens knows I do!). :D

 

Most of all good luck and :grouphug:. I'm glad your daughter has such an advocate for her like you!

[mom2l&j]

Thank you all for your input and encouragement. DD does already feel stupid. I will look in to Math Mammoth. I really appreciate the comments regarding the "babyish" look to the earlier level Singapore. I will definitely look to go that route until her confidence is built back up.

 

The funny thing is that NOTHING has ever been mentioned to us from the PS about DD struggling with math. She is quite advanced in nearly every other area and this caught me by surprise. Her ITBS last year got my attention but I assumed it was just a bad testing day for her. This year it made me mad.

[boscopup]

I agree with using Math Mammoth. Much less babyish. It's very easy to accelerate, but it also has a lot of practice with math facts. The topical workbooks would be perfect. No grade level anywhere (even the graded light blue series doesn't have grade levels on the pages).

 

Starting back far enough, you can build confidence again by giving her math she CAN do. You won't be going the same pace as a young elementary student, so you can do multiple years worth in one year.

 

Math Mammoth is having a 20% off sale toward the end of the month, btw.

[Twilight Woods]

our public school use to teach "everyday mathmatics". They switched b/c of the poor test scores. Now they use Envision Math. However DD is not doing any better.

 

I am new to HS and we will be starting in July after DD finishes up 4th grade in public school. :)

 

We are having to backtrack to relay a good math foundation. I have used placement tests from all the major math curriculm's. MUS, Horizons and SM. Over all she does ok up until the end of what would be 3rd grade math beginning 4th grade. So we will be starting with level 4 and also make sure her math facts are solid as well.

 

[i am using grade placement's b/c of how skills were taught to DD]

 

It's ok to back up espically at this point while they are still young.

Edited May 2, 2011 by my3luvbugs990105

[marbelinchen]

Some suggestions:

 

Word Problems - to me (I'm a mathematician) they are the only way we use math, everything comes in a worded way first: "If I have $19 and a shirt costs $5, how many shirts can I buy" to formulating a plan to fly to Mars and calculating what the rocket should look like, which path to go, how much fuel to use and when... everything comes to us in words first, then we transform it into a math problem. So start her immediately on this.

 

Singapore Math has entire books dedicated to word problems only. I would start with these in addition to whatever other curriculum you might choose. There are no or hardly any pictures in there, so "babyish" should not be an issue. I would even start her on 1A to learn the process of extracting the important information/question out of the bulk of words and to boost her confidence, especially if she can do the arithmetic behind it without problems.

 

Here are some visual tricks to guide her through a word problem and to prepare her for Algebra at the same time:

Copy the problem - either on paper or on a white board. Black out or wipe out all words that are just wordy fillers, so that eventually you have only phrases like "Mike has 10 stamps" - "gives away 4 stamps" -"how many left" or "plane A flies at 300mph from X to Y" - "plane B flies at 350mph from Y to X" - "where do they meet".

 

Then discuss whether she sees any unnecessary information - "there are 5 children, 2 boys and 3 girls, and they are to split 15 marbles equally between each other, how many marbles does each child get?" -it's not important how many of these kids are boys and how many are girls, just the total number of kids is important.

 

Talk about what I call buzz words or phrases that lead her to find the correct operation needed, words like "altogether" = addition, "how many left" = subtraction, "split" = division, and so on. Replace the word by the symbol for the operation.

 

In the next step you might want to black out or erase parts of the main words or use a symbol instead, meaning reduce "Mike" to M or "stamps" to s, either one "=10", "plane A" to A, "plane B" to B, and so on. This leads them to realize that we use symbols in math to represent numbers (big step toward Algebra). Then help her write down the equation she needs to solve, and finally have her solve it.

 

In each unit, I would first see how much she can do on her own, then guide her if necessary, but let her do more and more on her own. I suggest that in the beginning (or for however long it takes) you sit with her during her entire time with math. Do not require her to work independently at this point, she has not learned how to solve the problems independently yet, so why would she suddenly learn it now without good help and guidance.

 

The second most important issue is that she must have her math facts memorized, that she can do mental math at least to some degree, and has a firm grip on how to do more complicated operations (long division, working with fractions, %).

 

Singapore Math and Mammoth Math have been recommended, I would second this. Both are mastery programs. It is essential that your daughter truly masters a concept and knows how to apply it before moving on to something new.

 

Key to.... is a wonderful program easing kids into a certain concept. I believe they start with fractions, percentages,... I have used these booklets numerous times with students I tutored, and it helped each and every one truly master a concept. The booklets are called Key to Fractions, Key to Measurements, Key to Geometry,... Look for keypress.com.

 

If you own an ipad or ipod touch, there are inexpensive drill apps out there. Right now my son loves Rocket Math, but I know there is one app for the ipad that generates wonderful word problems. I haven't used that one yet, so I don't know how/whether you can choose which concepts/levels should or should not be covered.

[mom2l&j]

If you own an ipad or ipod touch, there are inexpensive drill apps out there.

 

Thank you for all your suggestions! I hadn't thought of getting an app for her touch. I will have to look for some. I think she might do those w/out putting up too much of a fight.

 

I think the main problem is that she never really memorized her math facts. She really does understand the "how-to" of math, she just can't do the calculations correctly. This has caused her confidence with everything to plummet.

 

**As I'm typing this there is a story on the Today Show about Singapore math :D**

Edited May 2, 2011 by mom2l&j

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

Look into Professor B Math. It has only 3 levels, each one cover 3 years and can be done in 10 months each. It would eliminate the grade issue as she goes back and is self paced so she could take 10 months or less or more, whatever she needs. Combined with the Key to books for the couple of subjects it doesn't cover, it would be a great option to consider. Check out their website for their information on their success in bring up scores in public schools. www.profb.com

[Halcyon]

Thank you. I guess I was worried that starting her at her level will actually put her below her brother going in to 3rd grade. I guess it doesn't matter where she starts as long as she progresses. I just printed off the Singapore 2 placement test. Thanks!

 

 

Good for you. Much better to have a solid foundation in Singapore (which is quite different from everyday math!!) than to get fixated on a "grade level".

[Halcyon]

I agree with using Math Mammoth. Much less babyish. It's very easy to accelerate, but it also has a lot of practice with math facts. The topical workbooks would be perfect. No grade level anywhere (even the graded light blue series doesn't have grade levels on the pages).

 

Starting back far enough, you can build confidence again by giving her math she CAN do. You won't be going the same pace as a young elementary student, so you can do multiple years worth in one year.

 

Math Mammoth is having a 20% off sale toward the end of the month, btw.

 

 

And as the poster who recommended Singapore, I agree with this. If your daughter finds SM too 'babyish' at the level she places into, MM is a good substitute. Good luck.