Miss Peregrine Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 And another thing I find totally ridiculous. Most (not all) youth pastors don't even have teens yet. But parents are supposed to be in awe of their calling to tell us how to raise our kids. Oh yeah, please tell me how to raise a teen when yours are not out of diapers yet. Oh right, they know more than me because they're young and cool, endanger kids lives with stupid games on Wednesday and Sunday nights, and can swallow gross things without vomiting. And let's not forget the ever popular putting teens into situations where lovely things like drugs are introduced. No, I'm not kidding. When I want advice, spiritual or whatever, I go to the older couples in my church. The ones with children and grandchildren who are making wise choices, raising godly families and setting a high standard for the rest of us. :iagree: I still bear the emotional scars from my high school youth leaders. I don't get the "extreme" games either. They are wasteful, for one thing. I don't see any value in them, whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I agree completely. My husband and I left ministry (after being in it full-time for 12 years) so that we can serve God as we feel called, and it is no longer an occupation. We feel incredibly happy & blessed to be where we are now. But unless you have worked as an employee at a church - you have absolutely no idea how much it involves, how much people on staff sacrifice, how much faith it requires, how much abuse members of the congregation can dish out (over music selection, carpet color, etc), and how exhausting church politics can wear on you. I think to call someone an idiot or basically a jackass - well, frankly it is just incredibly mean. Susan I didn't call anyone a jackass. But you know, if the shoe fits.... But I think that many of the things that I have heard "youth" pastors have done and that I have first hand experience of them actually doing are idiotic. So, if they do idiotic things, in my book that makes them idiots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaLisa Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I wouldn't chew him out. I haven't read the other responses. You sound really upset and your dd sounds upset. If I was in this situation, I would: *take a day or two before talking to youth pastor; I wouldn't want to talk to him in a heated state; *pray, pray, pray that my words would be helpful, not destructive; *tell youth pastor how your dd felt and the impact it had on her; *talk to dd about how to stand alone and about how to turn and walk away from any situation in which she feels uncomfortable. Sorry a fun day turned out to be a hard day. It's another opportunity for you to walk alongside your dd and teach her to advocate for herself. If we could all learn such a lesson, no? :grouphug: Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 And another thing I find totally ridiculous. Most (not all) youth pastors don't even have teens yet. But parents are supposed to be in awe of their calling to tell us how to raise our kids. Oh yeah, please tell me how to raise a teen when yours are not out of diapers yet. i understand your point, but im not sure i totally agree. youth pastors can relate to teens because they have BTDT. their job isn't to raise the youth. that's a parent's job. their job is to help shepherd the teens spiritually and help them stand on a firm foundation through difficult times & grow in their relationship with Christ. being a parent of a youth would help in some ways of course, but i don't think it is necessary. i also don't think senior pastors have to be older with grown kids though (my senior pastor is only 41 and has a 3 year old) - but i still expect him to share with the congregation what the bible says about parenting and family life. although his personal experience is limited, it isn't the authority of his message...God's word is, ykwim?:) anyway. interesting thread. OP, i hope it all works out!!:grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 And another thing I find totally ridiculous. Most (not all) youth pastors don't even have teens yet. But parents are supposed to be in awe of their calling to tell us how to raise our kids. Oh yeah, please tell me how to raise a teen when yours are not out of diapers yet. Oh right, they know more than me because they're young and cool, endanger kids lives with stupid games on Wednesday and Sunday nights, and can swallow gross things without vomiting. And let's not forget the ever popular putting teens into situations where lovely things like drugs are introduced. No, I'm not kidding. When I want advice, spiritual or whatever, I go to the older couples in my church. The ones with children and grandchildren who are making wise choices, raising godly families and setting a high standard for the rest of us. RM, in your situation I think you are absolutely correct. As the child of non-Christian parents I was very lucky to have had a very admirable Youth Pastor. He provided many opportunities for me to grow and develop my talents, and encourage me to go to Seminary. When I was in the thick of the trauma with the Sr. leader who hurt me, it was my old youth Pastor who encouraged me to get out. He was able to see the boundary violations long before I did. I just wish I had listened :glare: All Pastor's are in an a position to do incredible good and great harm. It is unfortunate that churches (and Sr. Leaders) lean so heavily on those so young, to lead others that are young. I'm not sure what my life would be like today if it weren't for a strong, vibrant youth ministry. On the other hand, Dh and I have had to reap the consequences of some really bad youth Pastors who we had to clean up after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdalley Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 And another thing I find totally ridiculous. Most (not all) youth pastors don't even have teens yet. But parents are supposed to be in awe of their calling to tell us how to raise our kids. Oh yeah, please tell me how to raise a teen when yours are not out of diapers yet. Oh right, they know more than me because they're young and cool, endanger kids lives with stupid games on Wednesday and Sunday nights, and can swallow gross things without vomiting. And let's not forget the ever popular putting teens into situations where lovely things like drugs are introduced. No, I'm not kidding. When I want advice, spiritual or whatever, I go to the older couples in my church. The ones with children and grandchildren who are making wise choices, raising godly families and setting a high standard for the rest of us. :iagree: Our youth group had a guy who acted like a teen leading it when we got there. Oh the things he encouraged and let go on.... (porn, underage sex during youth trips, etc) Our current youth Pastor has raised two teens - one just went to college and the other is not that much older. Our youth group is in the best shape that it ever has been. They don't do these 'extreme' type games either. That would not be acceptable. They are a large and diverse group that likes the fact that they are all a little different. It would be hard for DH and I to let our kids in a youth group where the leader had not raised teens. I think its good perspective for a youth leader to have. I have had to tell a couple of the youth volunteers (who do not have teens and one does not have a kid at all) that we were the parents and would take their advice under advisement. Any games like the OP described would result in our fury and our kids withdrawn immediately from that group and a meeting post-haste with the head Pastor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I know some younger parents that I trust to mentor my children. And do you realize how silly it is to say that youth pastors can relate to teens because they've btdt? What do you think I did, skip my teen years? And it's the parent's job to shepherd the teen. And to beat a dead horse... I can't figure out how playing fear factor games and other inappropriate games is sharing God's word? I guess I don't get the message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest momk2000 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Chew them out. Use sharp teeth. That was reprehensible. A dead fish? Dead. That is seriously sick and not funny in the least bit. Add me in as another that thinks the position shouldn't exist and we would be removing ourselves from that church. :iagree: We don't do youth group or Sunday school. Our kids receive plenty of spiritual instruction attending church services with us each week. They participate in activities such as choir, but no youth group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 For a while on Sunday nights we had a great program where the kids studied the Westminster Catechism. They did not swallow frogs, boy girl couples did not disappear into the dark recesses of the church building, there were no drug dealers present, and the leaders didn't wet themselves trying to be cool to impress the kids. And the kids had fun, looked forward to the meetings and actually learned and grew spiritually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I know some younger parents that I trust to mentor my children. And do you realize how silly it is to say that youth pastors can relate to teens because they've btdt? What do you think I did, skip my teen years? And it's the parent's job to shepherd the teen. And to beat a dead horse... I can't figure out how playing fear factor games and other inappropriate games is sharing God's word? I guess I don't get the message. im sorry, i think you misunderstood me. i'm typing & watching TV, not to mention i have miscommunicated all day on this board, lol. my point was more so that you can be young AND spiritually mature. likewise, yo can be older and spiritually immature. the BTDT is not a deciding factor for youth candidacy. i'm sorry you felt that was a mute point, but i do feel it's relevant simply because IME (and i'm not in youth) but in talking with them at our church, it tends to be very beneficial to teens when i can relate to them (BTDT). i'm almost 40, so i don't mean to imply only 20-something generation is capable of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 i understand your point, but im not sure i totally agree. youth pastors can relate to teens because they have BTDT. their job isn't to raise the youth. that's a parent's job. their job is to help shepherd the teens spiritually and help them stand on a firm foundation through difficult times & grow in their relationship with Christ. being a parent of a youth would help in some ways of course, but i don't think it is necessary. i also don't think senior pastors have to be older with grown kids though (my senior pastor is only 41 and has a 3 year old) - but i still expect him to share with the congregation what the bible says about parenting and family life. although his personal experience is limited, it isn't the authority of his message...God's word is, ykwim?:) anyway. interesting thread. OP, i hope it all works out!!:grouphug: Every adult has "BTDT". Youth pastors have no special experience there. As for " their job is to help shepherd the teens spiritually and help them stand on a firm foundation through difficult times & grow in their relationship with Christ" that is the #1 job of parents. I have a problem with that job being assigned to someone who is barely out of youth themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 im sorry, i think you misunderstood me. i'm typing & watching TV, not to mention i have miscommunicated all day on this board, lol. my point was more so that you can be young AND spiritually mature. likewise, yo can be older and spiritually immature. the BTDT is not a deciding factor for youth candidacy. i'm sorry you felt that was a mute point, but i do feel it's relevant simply because IME (and i'm not in youth) but in talking with them at our church, it tends to be very beneficial to teens when i can relate to them (BTDT). i'm almost 40, so i don't mean to imply only 20-something generation is capable of this. I will absolutely agree that you can be young and spiritually mature. I know lots of folks younger than me that leave me in the spiritual dust. Unfortunately, none of them want to be "youth" pastors. Or perhaps that is just another part of their spiritual maturity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Every adult has "BTDT". Youth pastors have no special experience there. As for " their job is to help shepherd the teens spiritually and help them stand on a firm foundation through difficult times & grow in their relationship with Christ" that is the #1 job of parents. I have a problem with that job being assigned to someone who is barely out of youth themselves. i'm sorry i didn't mean to imply that. it is a parent's job, of course. the church is in partnership with you, a youth pastor shouldn't be feeding raw fish to your child...i never condoned that and it isn't what i consider purposeful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfgivas Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Former Youth Pastor here. Normally, I am all for gross games, especially at youth retreats and other fun times. That said, I think this crossed the line and the responsible parties are in need of a reality check. With all the extreme reality tv shows I can see how it got out of hand. I'm not saying it was okay, just that I see how they got carried away. Also normally, I am all for the chain of command approaches and giving as much as grace as I can. In this situation though I would be going directly to the Sr. Pastor. I would be very firm, but calm in saying that this crossed a huge line! There are health risks, not to mention the psychological consequences. I think mentioning that this would not be allowed at most fraternities would bring some perspective. Then I would put the ball in his court. I would say something along the lines, "I would really like to know how you plan on resolving this issue." You will find out a lot by your Sr. Pastor's response. :grouphug: :iagree: speak/email with your senior pastor. we are supposed to be modelling Christ's love.... sigh.... ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Sadly, add another person who has been largely unimpressed (to horrified) with youth pastors, from my own teen experience on up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abigail4476 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I found out from my daughter that it was a frozen raw fish. That actually made me feel much much better. She did say some kids did sit out but she felt a lot of pressure to "help out the team". Some of the other adult leaders spoke with her and agreed that the game had gone way too far. I am much more calm now. I agree that my husband and I should sit down with the youth pastor and explain how we love that they want to have fun with the kids BUT we are trying to teach them how to overcome peer pressure not succumb to it. Thanks so much for the advice! God Bless, Elise in NC :iagree: I'm relieved that it was frozen raw fish, but you still need to have a talk with the youth pastor as planned, and I would include the senior pastor in that conversation. The fact that your daughter was so upset by the experience is enough to talk about, let alone the brilliance of the activity. :glare: As far as having terrible youth pastors: I would say that by and large it's because youth pastors are usually young people themselves and while that can be an advantage in many ways, it also comes with immaturity, inexperience, ignorance and impulsive decisions. And some measure of stupidity, quite frankly, that is par for the course in most *kids.* It takes life, experience, and maybe a few children of their own before they can see the big picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Saying things that have been said about youth pastors is basically like saying all homeschoolers are idiots because you may have known a handful. The youth pastor at our church is just a little over 30--he was 24 when he started there. He has won the respect of the parents and teens, because he encourages openness with parents. He encourages parents to have input into what their kids do while at church, and he has several of them on board as youth sponsors. He is the one who demands respect for God's house as soon as they step in the doors. No cell phones allowed, no couple affection, and if you are caught gabbing with your friends during worship, he will call you out on it later. Trips away have strict rules, and there are lots of parent sponsors there with him, so there are enough adults for each teen to have an eagle eye on them. Not all youth pastors are bad...and I would say not most that I have had experience with personally. Heck...maybe now we should say that there should be no Catholic priests?? Oh please. So you got a good one. I've already stated that we had a good program run by competent adults. Most youth programs are nothing more than public schools with a "and God bless us all" thrown in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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