Yet Another Handwriting s/o. "Loopy" Cursive or Italic Cursive? And why?

[eloquacious]

That's funny ... I always knew that I wrote certain letters oddly, and now I realize why. I learned in Germany! ;)

 

See, I prefer the German G, for instance.

Here is a link to a free font site that has some German school scripts in loopy, italic and manuscript. I (for the most part) prefer the capital letter formation to the American public school script I was raised on.

 

http://www.fontspace.com/schulshriften

 

Bill

[boscopup]

That's funny ... I always knew that I wrote certain letters oddly, and now I realize why. I learned in Germany! ;)

 

See, I prefer the German G, for instance.

 

The German G looks similar to an Italic Cursive G, except the German one joins it to the next letter with a loop. I must say, I have *really* liked the Italic Cursive G since I started using it recently. It looks so much nicer than the traditional cursive G I used to use. It has more of a calligraphy feel, I guess. I smile everytime I write a capital G now. :D

[desertmum]

The German G looks similar to an Italic Cursive G, except the German one joins it to the next letter with a loop. I must say, I have *really* liked the Italic Cursive G since I started using it recently. It looks so much nicer than the traditional cursive G I used to use. It has more of a calligraphy feel, I guess. I smile everytime I write a capital G now. :D

 

I also learned a German style of writing,but only after printing and after a loopy cursive ZB type. As a result I can write pretty decent German style if I write slowly but it becomes a mess if I have to take fast notes.

 

I am going with italics with my young ds but I am thinking of introducing the italic cursive G instead of the print G just because it looks easier to make for a young kid. Don't know if this is allowed.

 

Maybe this would satisfy Bill: having lower case italics and upper case cursive italics which look more traditional? Maybe? ;)

Edited June 22, 2011 by desertmum
typo

[Spy Car]

 

Maybe this would satisfy Bill: having lower case italics and upper case cursive italics which looks more traditional? Maybe? ;)

 

This has actually crossed my mind ;) :D

 

Bill

[Laura Corin]

I have one child who writes HWT cursive and one child who writes a hand similar to Italic. I think the Italic is much more efficient: the HWT cursive 'r' can look like all kinds of other things when written fast, and Calvin is having to learn to write fast for exams.

 

Laura

[lewelma]

Another vote for Getty Dubai. New Zealand uses something very similar, so all the homeschoolers here buy it. My grandmother (age 102) won awards for her Palmer handwriting as a teen. Yes, it is beautiful, but the number of hours required to master it (not just write it like a kid) is staggering.

 

If your child has an interest in beautiful writing, once he has learned how to control (and I mean really control) the hand, it is easy to pick up a new style. I know 4 different styles of calligraphy and each took about 2 months to learn and be able to write quickly and beautifully. I was 17 at the time.

 

Ruth in NZ

[grace'smom]

I was taught a fancy, loopy cursive and I write much differently. I use print caps and do the rest in more of an HWT script on a regular day. HOWEVER, if I am writing an invititation, thank you note, etc. then I will go back to my roots and form the letters properly. My advice is to teach whatever font you believe you would like to see your children write on the invitation, and acknowledge that they will modify that for their daily usage.

[tammyw]

Just yesterday I decided to switch our handwriting to Getty-Dubay Italic Cursive. It looks modern, clean, and easy to read.

 

We printed off a few practice sheets from StartWrite. My daughter is so excited, she's been practicing all day! I should have the books in next week.

 

We have done HWT print and cursive from PreK all the way to 4th grade cursive. She has very neat, small handwriting now, but the Getty-Dubay Italic/Cursive will give her a little more flair. :) I also think that it will enable her to have efficient, fast, yet still pretty handwriting. It's how I handwrite - combo of print/cursive.

 

Where are you buying your materials? And what specifically did you buy?

 

I used HWT with my daughter up until this point (she just finished the first cursive book) and I am the first to admit it's ugly. I never thought twice about the handwriting - just went with what everyone else seemed to be using.

 

Now I have my son who just turned 5 and writes all the time (without knowing the proper way to write letters) and have to think about him. Do most people start off printing with HWT and then move into the cursive of choice after that?

[Tracy]

Do most people start off printing with HWT and then move into the cursive of choice after that?

 

I think that most people do start with manuscript (not necessarily HWT, though that is a popular program) and then move to cursive around 2nd-3rd grade. But there is a growing minority that teach cursive first.

 

The reason for that growing minority is that people are starting to realize that the way we were taught (manuscript first) is not necessarily the best or the only way to teach handwriting. I made the transition from manuscript to cursive last summer with my dd who was 5yo at the time. I wish I had known about teaching cursive first, because it seemed really unfair to teach a child one way of writing, just to then turn around and tell them they have to teach it another way. I made that transition early, because I read that it is actually more difficult to make the transition in 2nd-3rd grade, because it is at that time that more written work is being required of them. So it can be very frustrating to have the expectations of written work increase while simultaneously learning a new way to write.

 

Other reasons to teach cursive first:

 

• Remediates reversals

• Improves spacing

• It is physically easier, because there is less lifting of the pencil

• It is mentally easier, because the child has to make fewer judgments about where to place a pencil to start each new letter.

 

[tammyw]

I think that most people do start with manuscript (not necessarily HWT, though that is a popular program) and then move to cursive around 2nd-3rd grade. But there is a growing minority that teach cursive first.

 

The reason for that growing minority is that people are starting to realize that the way we were taught (manuscript first) is not necessarily the best or the only way to teach handwriting. I made the transition from manuscript to cursive last summer with my dd who was 5yo at the time. I wish I had known about teaching cursive first, because it seemed really unfair to teach a child one way of writing, just to then turn around and tell them they have to teach it another way. I made that transition early, because I read that it is actually more difficult to make the transition in 2nd-3rd grade, because it is at that time that more written work is being required of them. So it can be very frustrating to have the expectations of written work increase while simultaneously learning a new way to write.

 

Other reasons to teach cursive first:

 

• Remediates reversals

• Improves spacing

• It is physically easier, because there is less lifting of the pencil

• It is mentally easier, because the child has to make fewer judgments about where to place a pencil to start each new letter.

 

 

 

That's an interesting idea. I could just start with cursive with DS5. Hmmm.

[Classically Minded]

I did the whole cursive first and it actually interfered with my dd's reading, that was easy to understand why as books are in print, not cursive. Once we quit the cursive, she started reading better. Now that she is reading on a 4th grade level, we plan to introduce cursive again starting in the fall with 2nd grade. I love New American Cursive! It's modern, clean and simple.

 

http://www.memoriapress.com/descriptions/new-cursive.html

[tammyw]

I did the whole cursive first and it actually interfered with my dd's reading, that was easy to understand why as books are in print, not cursive. Once we quit the cursive, she started reading better. Now that she is reading on a 4th grade level, we plan to introduce cursive again starting in the fall with 2nd grade. I love New American Cursive! It's modern, clean and simple.

 

http://www.memoriapress.com/descriptions/new-cursive.html

 

And this makes even more sense to me! Now I have to decide if I want to start my son with HWT like I did with my daughter or switch to something like Getty Dubay, which looks much prettier to me.

[Classically Minded]

And this makes even more sense to me! Now I have to decide if I want to start my son with HWT like I did with my daughter or switch to something like Getty Dubay, which looks much prettier to me.

 

If you are talking about print penmanship, you don't really need a curriculum. I was able to teach my daughter print from a chart, she just practiced over and over again each letter and then did copywork after she mastered the letters. Every now and then I have her write out the alphabet, just to make sure she is writing correctly.

[boscopup]

I did the whole cursive first and it actually interfered with my dd's reading, that was easy to understand why as books are in print, not cursive.

 

I think this would have happened with my middle son too. As it is, we learned capital letters first, and it has confused him a bit. He can read either one just fine. It's writing something different from what he's reading that has him asking why all the time. Next kid I'll just do lowercase manuscript to start, and add capitals later. I had intended to teach him reading before writing, but he insists on writing everything. Very different from my writing phobic oldest son!

[Jayne J]

I haven't read the whole thread, so maybe this has been mentioned, but...

 

My dh and I went to the same school and were in the same grade, many of the same classes even. We both learned the same cursive--although I have yet to identify exactly what "flavor" it was it was similar to Zaner-Bloser. Today, I write a clear, legible, fairly attractive script. Dh writes chicken scratch (the man clearly missed his calling in the medical field.) Point being, don't overthink, since inevitably each child will create a comfortable, personal hand. Pick something you will find easy to teach, or your child will find easy to learn or some combination therof. (My poor dc are learning my as-yet-undetermined form of cursive because it is what I learned and what I can comfortably teach.)

[desertmum]

I am no expert but not many 5yo have the skill to write loopy cursive. Mine struggles quite a bit and gets very frustrated (and loud!) because he just doesn't have the muscle control yet. However he keeps trying to write in all capitals which is why I am going with italics. It seems easier for an impatient kid to start with. My own loopy handwriting is only neat if I write fairly slowly, but if I need to take fast notes it degenerates into "chicken scratch" (to borrow urpedonmommy's words).

[Tracy]

I am no expert but not many 5yo have the skill to write loopy cursive. Mine struggles quite a bit and gets very frustrated (and loud!) because he just doesn't have the muscle control yet.

 

For this reason, gross motor activities are encouraged--chalk/white board, salt boxes, air writing, fingerpainting, etc. A child that does not have sufficiently developed fine motor skills does not have to write on lined paper. Writing in all caps is a common issue at this age, and cursive remediates that issue, as well.

[Critterfixer]

I KNEW I shouldn't look at this thread! Here I had second grade handwriting all done (no curriculum, just teach cursive) and here y'all go and spoil it all!

Now I've got to go get another book.:glare:

 

Seriously, the style looks great, and it fits my sons better than the Zaner-Bloser cursive does. I seldom print, but when I do, I tend to use an italic style. My cursive isn't Zaner-Bloser or D'Nelian, but whatever it is, it's fast and pretty. I get comments on how I can't be a doctor, my handwriting is too legible. But I'd not force that on my sons, and I think they could dress up the italics if they want. So, poop. Got to go get another book.

 

I did the whole cursive first and it actually interfered with my dd's reading, that was easy to understand why as books are in print, not cursive. Once we quit the cursive, she started reading better. Now that she is reading on a 4th grade level, we plan to introduce cursive again starting in the fall with 2nd grade. I love New American Cursive! It's modern, clean and simple.

 

 

 

It's funny, because I was just looking at some old readers/spellers where the reading text was in joined cursive that looks suspiciously like joined italics. Very legible and not at all confusing. I found them over at googlebooks when I was looking for something else.

[walkermamaof4]

We use GD and today I read in The Core that my kids won't be able to read the Declaration. Hmm... something about that really bothers me! Any thoughts on how to enable them to read loopy cursive when they've really never studied it?

[Tracy]

We use GD and today I read in The Core that my kids won't be able to read the Declaration. Hmm... something about that really bothers me! Any thoughts on how to enable them to read loopy cursive when they've really never studied it?

 

It takes practice. Even if they did learn loopy cursive, the style used in old documents is still different. I have done a lot of family history research, and every time you look at a new set of documents, you have to study them for a while to figure out how each letter was written. And you have to do the same thing every time you reach a point where there was a new record keeper.

 

If you really want to read the Declaration, you can, even without knowing loopy cursive, but it will require a substantial amount of a study. It would be helpful to have letter samples in cursive so you have something to compare it with.

[kathkath]

I really really really like D'nealian--and the transition from print to cursive is easy. The lower case b took a bit getting used to but other than that I think it's pretty in print or cursive. It is also efficient imo.

[Critterfixer]

We use GD and today I read in The Core that my kids won't be able to read the Declaration.

 

I've got a nice print copy and we read it every year.:001_smile: (Well, it's tough, so I read it to my sons.) While I concede the point that it can be tough to read the writing because of the style, it would be helpful to know what it says before trying to read the original style of the writing. The loopy cursive found in the Declaration reminds me of Spencerian which frankly isn't much like the more Modern loopy cursive anyway. It is very pretty, and fun to write (for me) but I don't think I'd make it my first choice for kids. The fine motor skills needed for Spencerian would be way beyond my ds7 boys right now.

 

But at least this is even a debate! I've heard tell that many PS are getting rid of any formal penmanship classes even for young children.

[desertmum]

For this reason, gross motor activities are encouraged--chalk/white board, salt boxes, air writing, fingerpainting, etc. A child that does not have sufficiently developed fine motor skills does not have to write on lined paper. Writing in all caps is a common issue at this age, and cursive remediates that issue, as well.

 

How can a 5yo do cursive though? I don't want to teach him to print only to change to loopy cursive later on. That is exactly why my cursive is rubbish...

 

I KNEW I shouldn't look at this thread! Here I had second grade handwriting all done (no curriculum, just teach cursive) and here y'all go and spoil it all!

Now I've got to go get another book.:glare:

 

Seriously, the style looks great, and it fits my sons better than the Zaner-Bloser cursive does. I seldom print, but when I do, I tend to use an italic style. My cursive isn't Zaner-Bloser or D'Nelian, but whatever it is, it's fast and pretty. I get comments on how I can't be a doctor, my handwriting is too legible. But I'd not force that on my sons, and I think they could dress up the italics if they want. So, poop. Got to go get another book.

 

 

 

It's funny, because I was just looking at some old readers/spellers where the reading text was in joined cursive that looks suspiciously like joined italics. Very legible and not at all confusing. I found them over at googlebooks when I was looking for something else.

 

Everytime I make my mind up I find another thread about handwriting and my head starts spinning yet again :lol:

 

A couple of cursives I've seen that many work for a young child may be a German one I saw (I forget the name) and this one:

 

http://practicalpages.wordpress.com/handwriting-pages/cursive-handwriting/

 

I guess I like the fact all the letters start at the bottom of the page and there are hardly any loops. I have to say that I learned cursive when young and I still have trouble reading people's handwriting.

[Tracy]

How can a 5yo do cursive though? I don't want to teach him to print only to change to loopy cursive later on.

 

Here is a video of a 3yo learning to write in cursive using a salt box. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOPEr45Sz0Y&feature=related

 

Here is a video of a little older preschooler learning cursive.

 

 

EDIT: This last video is not cursive. I even watched this before I posted it, and it didn't click until later that it wasn't cursive. But it is still a good video showing how to teach preschoolers to write.

 

The key is to teach them using gross motor skills and to put off pencil and paper until their fine motor skills are sufficiently developed.

Edited June 23, 2011 by tracymirko
Corrected mistaken information