Math dilemma, is Teaching Textbooks conceptual?

[A home for their hearts]

Ok, here's my dilemma. I love RightStart math. I love that it focuses on the concepts and mental math. I love the way the material is presented. I love everything about it except, my dc seem to hate it, and it is teacher intensive. I just dont have the time I need to make RS work on a day to day bases. So I've been looking at my alternatives.

 

I like the looks of Teaching Textbooks but can't seem to tell by the samples if it is a conceptual program or if its just, here's how you do the problem and that's it. I really want something that teaches my dc the way behind the math. I love the idea of TT being indendpent, that is what we need. But I also want my dc to understand math not just plug in some numbers.

 

My other dilema is if I do decide to use TT where should I place my dc. I'm trying to decide between grade 3 or 4. The reason being is that my dc are just now learning single digit multiplication :o I'm not sure if grade 4 would be a little to far above them. The reason my dc are so far behind is because I just can't make RS math work for us. I've held them back because I want the to understand math, that is very important to me. But I'm afraid if I don't find something else they will never catch up!

[Veritaserum]

We tried TT for a month and I didn't feel that it was thorough enough to give a solid foundation. We switched to Math Mammoth, which is a worktext written directly to the student. MM is conceptual and can be used independently. I would caution against letting math be wholly independent, though. I needed to remediate my 5th-grader in math. After we returned TT (great customer service, btw), I accelerated dd through Math Mammoth, starting with level 1. I am SO glad I did. She is now finishing up level three and has a much better understanding of math. At first I did every math problem with her. Now I explain things and then have her go do the problems. She corrects her work and then shows it to me.

 

Math Mammoth is my favorite elementary math program out of the half dozen I've tried. It is a mastery program. Christian Light Education is also acceptable to me for kids who do better with a spiral approach. My second dd uses CLE math.

[Crimson Wife]

Do a search on these boards for TT as there have been some *very* negative reviews of it.

 

I agree with Veritaserum about giving Math Mammoth a try.

[i.love.lucy]

:iagree:w/Veritaserum.

 

TT is not conceptual at all. I also tried it for a very short time and we didn't like it at all. It was too hands off for me. I didn't feel like I had a role in teaching or even supervising the learning of the math. We went back to CLE because although I love MM, CLE being spiral and less conceptual than MM works better for her. I will use MM with my son.

[A home for their hearts]

I do worry that it won't give a strong enough foundation. That's the main reason I love RS, I believe it would give my dc a strong foundation in math if we were actually able to do it everyday. I do have MM 3-A I just don't think it would work very well for my ds10. He has a terrible time with written work. Writing takes him, f o r e v e r.

That's amazing that you had your dd start from the beginning with MM. I think my dc would look at me like I was crazy! How long did it take her?

 

BTW I love your literature guides! We haven't used them yet but I'm planing too! Thanks!

 

 

We tried TT for a month and I didn't feel that it was thorough enough to give a solid foundation. We switched to Math Mammoth, which is a worktext written directly to the student. MM is conceptual and can be used independently. I would caution against letting math be wholly independent, though. I needed to remediate my 5th-grader in math. After we returned TT (great customer service, btw), I accelerated dd through Math Mammoth, starting with level 1. I am SO glad I did. She is now finishing up level three and has a much better understanding of math. At first I did every math problem with her. Now I explain things and then have her go do the problems. She corrects her work and then shows it to me.

 

Math Mammoth is my favorite elementary math program out of the half dozen I've tried. It is a mastery program. Christian Light Education is also acceptable to me for kids who do better with a spiral approach. My second dd uses CLE math.

[Momling]

I like TT and I think it's a great solution for some families... I think it is particularly great for parents who are not confident with their own math skills or teaching ability or with kids who are having trouble working with their parents on math. Or just for kids who really like working independently on a computer.

 

But (and I've said this before) -- it does not offer a good conceptual foundation. If you use TT, I think it's really important to supplement with manipulatives or with another program. It's good at describing *how* to do math, but not so good at explaining *why* we do it that way.

[A home for their hearts]

It's good at describing *how* to do math, but not so good at explaining *why* we do it that way.

 

This is what I don't want. I really want my dc to understand why we do math, not just how! Thanks for clarifying this for me. Is there any other computer based program for elementary that is conceptual?

[Veritaserum]

I do worry that it won't give a strong enough foundation. That's the main reason I love RS, I believe it would give my dc a strong foundation in math if we were actually able to do it everyday. I do have MM 3-A I just don't think it would work very well for my ds10. He has a terrible time with written work. Writing takes him, f o r e v e r.

That's amazing that you had your dd start from the beginning with MM. I think my dc would look at me like I was crazy! How long did it take her?

 

BTW I love your literature guides! We haven't used them yet but I'm planing too! Thanks!

 

We started MM1 in November. I only printed out pages that had concepts she needed to work on. Six months is how long it took to do levels 1 - 3. I got her to agree with it by apologizing to her for using the wrong programs with her. We will work on math through the summer (hopefully we will get through level 4). She starts sixth grade this fall and I'd love to finish up MM by the end of next summer (before 7th).

 

I'm glad you like my guides. :)

 

This is what I don't want. I really want my dc to understand why we do math, not just how! Thanks for clarifying this for me. Is there any other computer based program for elementary that is conceptual?

 

Professor B math is good, but it is designed for you to sit at the computer with your student. I found it easier (and cheaper) to use Math Mammoth (we did Professor

B for a month). My dd has ADHD, so I did a lot of the writing for her as we sat on the floor and she played with MUS blocks. She is an auditory learner, so it helps her if I explain things verbally.

[mycalling]

We use TT3 (in 2nd) then TT5 (in 3rd/4th), but I've always supplemented. It's worked great for my mathy kids and my one non-mathy kid alike. I supplement with online drill games and word problems (which I do with every curriculum we've used).

 

I've added in Math Detective, Math Logic & Word Problems, LoF, and Hand-on Equations. There's been plenty of room for supplementing as TT only takes up about 1/2 to 2/3rds our week in math.

[Snowfall]

Could you purchase MM and use it just for teaching the conceptual basis for whatever TT is teaching? So if the TT lesson is on multiplying fractions, you would print out the MM description and explanation of multiplying fractions, go over that with your child to cover the 'why' then let them do the TT lesson to learn the 'how'? I would think that could work, and really shouldn't take too much time for you. I definitely think it would be shorter than the average RS lesson. Just a thought, as I have no experience with TT at all and only use MM to supplement RS. :)

[twoxcell]

I would go with MM, or SM. I've checked out TT and it just seems to simple to me. My ds was able to do all of the TT 3 sample lessons easily before he had finished Horizons 1.

[A home for their hearts]

That is a possibility? Should I purchase just the worksheets from MM instead of the curriculum?

 

Could you purchase MM and use it just for teaching the conceptual basis for whatever TT is teaching? So if the TT lesson is on multiplying fractions, you would print out the MM description and explanation of multiplying fractions, go over that with your child to cover the 'why' then let them do the TT lesson to learn the 'how'? I would think that could work, and really shouldn't take too much time for you. I definitely think it would be shorter than the average RS lesson. Just a thought, as I have no experience with TT at all and only use MM to supplement RS. :)

[In2why]

I am using Teaching Textbooks and Math Mammoth to supplement for next year. I downloaded the MM series but it is ust too much on a page for my son and he gets discouraged. Teaching Textbooks allows him to learn the how of math and then MM gives him the why. I think they work well together.

[Corraleno]

Should I purchase just the worksheets from MM instead of the curriculum?

No, the worksheets (Green & Gold series) don't include the conceptual explanations, they're just problems for further practice. You want either the Blue series (organized by topic) or the Light Blue series (organized by grade); the pages in those two series are virtually identical, just organized differently.

 

Jackie

[Osaubi]

I use RS and just recently bought TT 4 for my ds. I plan on using both of them. He loves TT and it gives him extra practice and explains it in a different way.

 

TT4 recommended that he put 2 2 digit numbers down on paper for long addition. I just told my ds it would be easier on him if he just did it in his head. He hates to write stuff down so he was ok with that.

 

TT4 is really easy for my ds but it is also giving him the encouragement that he is good at math. That is exactly what I needed. It has been a frustrating year for him in math.

 

We also use some MM but he hates worksheets so I only get those out every once in awhile.

[Aconnolley]

:bigear:

 

I have heard that some use TT and supplement with LOF. (this would be for 4th-5th grade and up though) I am considering this for my son after a rough year with MM. I love MM for my daughters, by the way, it just isn't a good fit for my son, though it did help his conceptual understanding.

 

Angela

[A home for their hearts]

:bigear:

 

I have heard that some use TT and supplement with LOF. (this would be for 4th-5th grade and up though) I am considering this for my son after a rough year with MM. I love MM for my daughters, by the way, it just isn't a good fit for my son, though it did help his conceptual understanding.

 

Angela

 

What is LOF?

[DarlaS]

What is LOF?

 

Life of Fred.

 

I second the suggestion for Math Mammoth.

[Hathersage]

For independentish time with math, may I suggest

http://www.khanacademy.org

 

 

We started out with MM, but my daughter really loves the video explantions that Sal gives. (We also tried TT) Granted , you'll still need MM, or RS, or whatever to fill in all the maths in the younger years, but for those times when you need independent time with arithmetic practice, I do like Khan academy.

[JenC3]

We use TT3 (in 2nd) then TT5 (in 3rd/4th), but I've always supplemented. It's worked great for my mathy kids and my one non-mathy kid alike. I supplement with online drill games and word problems (which I do with every curriculum we've used).

 

I've added in Math Detective, Math Logic & Word Problems, LoF, and Hand-on Equations. There's been plenty of room for supplementing as TT only takes up about 1/2 to 2/3rds our week in math.

 

This is what we are doing a well. My ds almost 5 has started Miquon and MEP and so I do a math lab with both kids and use MM to supplement with DD. She is really using 3 programs. I didn't know as much about math education when DD started so she lost confidence and got a bad attitude about math. TT has helped with her attitude a TON. We will likely phase out TT as we progress, but for now it reenforces and provides confidence. I wouldn't use it as your main program, but a part of a whole math education plan.

[Aconnolley]

If you are supplementing TT, how do you go about it? Do you do more than one TT lesson a day and use the other days to supplement, or do both TT and the supplement each day? About how long long does it take each day?

 

Thanks!

Angela

[lmrich]

We use TT for summer school math. It is a great review. Hopefully the conceptual part of math was learned during the year and TT is a fun way to review all summer long. I require that she finishes 2/3 of the program during the summer. Our summer starts next week!!!!

[A home for their hearts]

How do you handle having so many different curriculums for math? I don't think I would be able to keep up with more than one! lol

[Just Robyn]

Hoping my comments/questions help the thread rather than hijack it -

 

I'm thinking about using TT next year. My thought is that I could go through TT, see what all the new topics are, and create hands-on conceptual lessons using base 10 blocks, math gnomes, money, fraction tiles, or whatever. Does anyone make up demonstrations to go with TT? How hard is it or how hard would it be? I'm also specifically wondering if it could be done once/week (the demonstrations, not TT).

[Homeschooling6]

Hoping my comments/questions help the thread rather than hijack it -

 

I'm thinking about using TT next year. My thought is that I could go through TT, see what all the new topics are, and create hands-on conceptual lessons using base 10 blocks, math gnomes, money, fraction tiles, or whatever. Does anyone make up demonstrations to go with TT? How hard is it or how hard would it be? I'm also specifically wondering if it could be done once/week (the demonstrations, not TT).

 

I do this with my two who are using TT3 and TT5. I don't have time to do this daily. I pay attention to what they are learning when I write out their weekly schedule. Maybe once a week, I'll try to sit with them and do a demonstration using what you mentioned above.

 

TT has less lessons than other math programs, so you can use TT four times a week and use the fifth day for demonstrations and such. For instance I believe TT5 has a 134 lesson including the quizzes. I like this because a) it doesn't make one feel rushed and b) I can add hands on demonstration when needed (and not feel like we are getting behind;)).

 

Also, since many of us like to use two programs, it really seems doable with TT. Through the summer I'm going to add 1pg. of Math Mammoth. I'll see how it goes, if it's not too much than we'll continue through the school year.

 

HTH some,

[Momling]

Hoping my comments/questions help the thread rather than hijack it -

 

I'm thinking about using TT next year. My thought is that I could go through TT, see what all the new topics are, and create hands-on conceptual lessons using base 10 blocks, math gnomes, money, fraction tiles, or whatever. Does anyone make up demonstrations to go with TT? How hard is it or how hard would it be? I'm also specifically wondering if it could be done once/week (the demonstrations, not TT).

 

I haven't gone out of my way to plan anything, but I always watch the lesson with my daughter, then we grab some manipulatives or sketch a picture or look at Khan academy or brainpop or do a few problems from MM -- any resource I have on hand. I think you could definitely supplement once a week, but I don't think it'd always fit with the TT syllabus or be particularly effective. For instance, last week in TT5, my daughter had two lessons on converting percents to fractions and back and then one on liquid measurement and one on length.

[DarlaS]

How do you handle having so many different curriculums for math? I don't think I would be able to keep up with more than one! lol

 

 

It probably helps if that child is the oldest or an only. :001_smile:

 

I have dabbled in supplementing with other programs. A change of pace from time to time can be nice, but don't feel like your kids are missing anything if you just use one well written math program.

 

Right now I use the Singapore Extra Practice workbook occasionally with Math Mammoth for my youngest. I already had them though. I won't be using anything other than Challenging Word Problems with MM next year (a grade level behind) with my two younger kids while my one remaining high schooler continues on with TT.

 

My oldest is doing well in Calculus right now and only ever used one program at a time (and at the high school level it was TT, before that Saxon--surprisingly he still managed to learn some concepts :001_rolleyes:).

 

I'm relaxing a bit about math these days. Which is not to say we are "relaxed" about it--just that I'm not flipping out and buying/downloading math programs left and right to be sure all the bases are covered. That is not usually the answer (except for maybe the alleviation of boredom for student or teacher).

[mycalling]

How do you handle having so many different curriculums for math? I don't think I would be able to keep up with more than one! lol

We do 2 TT lessons per day we use it. Each lesson takes about 20min. I think 50-60min per day is reasonable for math, so on top of TT those days we do 1 page of word problems or drill. That's done 2 days per week, so we're accomplishing 4 TT lessons per week equaling about 30 weeks worth of TT for the year.

 

The other 2 days per week (we've done 4-day weeks until the end of this year) they do another full curricula that takes an hour per day -or- two short things like Life of Fred with computer math games.