Where to go after R+S English 5.....OR how much grammar do we really need? lol!

[HappyGrace]

I don't want to do R+S 6; I've read that it goes into way too much unnecessary detail.

 

Do we need to teach more new grammar after R+S 5, or do I want something that just keeps the grammar fresh?

 

I'm considering AG, maybe. This is for bright dd11 who intuitively grasps grammar. We did MCT Town before R+S 5 and that went well (and in fact a lot of R+S 5 was review after that, but I wanted to do it for the diagramming), but I'm not sure I want to do MCT again because I think a lot of MCT is repetitive through the years, plus it's so teacher intensive.

 

She did FLL 1/2, then Shurley 3, then no grammar in 3rd grade (just Latin), then MCT in 4th and R+S 5 in 5th. She did some Minimus and Lively Latin in 2nd grade, then Latin for Children A and B in 3rd and 4th. (We've dropped Latin now.) So quite a bit of grammar.

 

This is the type of kid who will get bored if we are just reviewing the same stuff over and over, doesn't need the repetition but I still want to keep it fresh, especially the diagramming.

 

What do you all do after R+S 5?

Edited April 25, 2011 by HappyGrace

[Nakia]

I have been planning to do R&S 6, but now you have me curious, so I will be watching this thread. :001_smile:

[yvonne]

Oh, my goodness! Quit now!? Right when things are about to get interesting?!? Hunting down phrases and clauses. Figuring out if they're adjectival or adverbial phrases or adjectival, adverbial, or noun clauses. Active and passive voice. Predicate nominatives, predicate adjectives, direct objects, indirect objects. Simple, compound, complex, compound-complex sentences... Finally putting all these things together and diagramming them all! What could be more fun?

 

We came across a sentence in our dictation just today: "The third statement (of the Monroe Doctrine) was that any attempt of a European country to control colonies that had already declared their independence would be considered unfriendly to the United States." Ooooo, an adjectival clause within a noun clause! And the noun clause acting as a predicate nominative. Ohhhh, the ecstasy! You want to miss this?!? :svengo: Say it isn't so!

Edited April 26, 2011 by yvonne

[HappyGrace]

So yvonne, what are you planning after R+S 5?

 

Last night I was looking at CLE 6 (not enough explanation), Growing with Grammar 7 (so-so), AG (I don't like the progression over three yrs), and MCT Magic Lens (which is basically what we already did in MCT Town).

 

So I'm still in the same boat. I do think we should continue with grammar-I see there is more we can do that looks necessary.

 

I want something meaty but not too time-consuming, and not a rehash of what we've done before, but then not TOO in depth with stuff we'll never use.

 

It might be nice to do grammar more in context-ala CW- but we don't need the writing in CW. Something where you learn the grammar and then use it in context. But I'd be happy with anything that would teach it well. I guess I'm leaning toward GWG7 at this point but I don't think the retention will be very good with that.

[yvonne]

R&S is solid, thorough, easy to teach, easy to implement, requiring little to no planning on my part. It actually gets done because it's broken into perfectly sized lessons to do each day. The pieces seem tiny, but they all build on each other so that the student ends up with an excellent understanding of English grammar. I don't think I could mess it up if I tried!

 

It has been working well for us. I can see the results at this point. We'll continue with R&S 6. :001_smile:

[BlsdMama]

You ask a good question and seriously, we BURNT out of R&S. Ana had used it and used it to death. Finally we abandoned it. We did sixth grade and I thought the same exact thing, "How much grammar can one child do?!?!"

 

So we jumped ship. We took two years off. This year I was reviewing TWTM, reading the recommendations, etc. We decided she would take a credit in English with R&S Grammar 8 and writing with IEW and also a separate credit in Lit.

 

So, I bought R&S Grammar 8. WHOA!

Grammar?

 

Writing!!! And, moreover, truly writing that helps me to re-emphasize what we've learned in IEW TWSS. I'm loving it. It isn't the primary gradeschool grammar I remembered. Now, DS (Grade 6) IS still doing a lot of grammar but I am seeing a lot of writing worked into it. Yesterday our entire lesson was on topic sentences, paragraph unity, & cohesiveness. Even the grammar we did last week was on recognizing variety in sentence structure - subject/predicate and predicate/subject and predicate/subject/predicate structure. Why is it important? Because sentence variety improves our writing and makes it much more interesting for our reader.

 

So, having BTDT with where you are now, I'd suggest take a year off. But don't switch. Just skip a year and carry on. ;) I tell you I'm TICKLED about going back to Rod & Staff Grammar this year. I can say I have no idea what Rod & Staff 7 looks like though.

[yvonne]

I want something meaty

 

R&S---Check! I don't know if there's anything meatier than R&S. As meaty, perhaps, but I don't know about meatier.

 

but not too time-consuming,

 

R&S--Check! Do much of it orally. Only write out the written sections that benefit from being written. (writing assignments, diagramming, plurals,...)

 

and not a rehash of what we've done before,

 

R&S---Check! R&S continually builds.

 

but then not TOO in depth with stuff we'll never use.

 

R&S (at least through grade 8)---Check!

 

But I'd be happy with anything that would teach it well..

 

R&S--Check!

 

It might be nice to do grammar more in context...Something where you learn the grammar and then use it in context.

 

My children learn grammar in R&S and then we apply it everywhere else. We read a lot, including older books which tend to have much more complicated, interesting sentences. Great for application of what they've learned. (It also helps that I'm a grammar nut. :001_smile:)

Edited April 26, 2011 by yvonne

[ereks mom]

You ask a good question and seriously, we BURNT out of R&S. Ana had used it and used it to death. Finally we abandoned it. We did sixth grade and I thought the same exact thing, "How much grammar can one child do?!?!"

 

So we jumped ship. We took two years off.

 

We did the same thing about mid-way through R&S Grammar 7. We just could NOT keep doing it, day after day after day. But I've bought R&S 8 and I am trying to decide whether to do it or not. It still seems like overkill.

 

This year I was reviewing TWTM, reading the recommendations, etc. We decided she would take a credit in English with R&S Grammar 8 and writing with IEW and also a separate credit in Lit.

 

So, I bought R&S Grammar 8. WHOA!

Grammar?

 

Writing!!! And, moreover, truly writing that helps me to re-emphasize what we've learned in IEW TWSS. I'm loving it. It isn't the primary gradeschool grammar I remembered. Now, DS (Grade 6) IS still doing a lot of grammar but I am seeing a lot of writing worked into it. Yesterday our entire lesson was on topic sentences, paragraph unity, & cohesiveness. Even the grammar we did last week was on recognizing variety in sentence structure - subject/predicate and predicate/subject and predicate/subject/predicate structure. Why is it important? Because sentence variety improves our writing and makes it much more interesting for our reader.

 

I've also bought R&S Grammar 8, and I am considering it, but not sure yet if I really want to do it.

 

So, having BTDT with where you are now, I'd suggest take a year off. But don't switch. Just skip a year and carry on. ;) ...

 

I definitely agree with taking a year off.

[Magic Wand]

CLE. It was okay. The explanations are lacking and we find ourselves using the handbook quite often. Next year we are moving back to R&S. It's thorough, solid, adaptable and...the teacher book is a gem!

[Janice in NJ]

Just work through the even numbered problems. Set the timer for ten minutes and go. Treat it like jumping jacks or sit-ups: just to stay in shape.

 

If you only work through the even numbered problems in 6th grade, you could use the workbook again to review things in 7th grade - you could do the odd numbered ones in 7th grade.

 

Then you could decide to return to R&S for 8th grade for a "meatier" grammar year before high school.

 

Or you could pick up the 7th grade R&S book and orally work through the lessons; just set the timer for 15 minutes and put a post-it stickie in the book to keep your place. Buy a workbook for two bucks if you want something on paper. Then in 7th grade you could actually do some of the written assignments from the book.

 

Just a thought.

 

We've enjoyed light grammar years. I do like to do some grammar though. :001_smile:

 

Peace,

Janice

[missmoe]

With my two older kids we worked through Book 7 and parts of 8. My second son will be finished at the end of the 6th book. My youngest daughter wants to finish all eight books! :tongue_smilie:

 

After we get as far as we get in R&S, we are done. I use writing as review of grammar. And a serious study of a foreign language ensues in high school which helps with the study of grammar.

 

I really think past book 6 of R&S is bonus.

[angela in ohio]

Oh, my goodness! Quit now!? Right when things are about to get interesting?!? Hunting down phrases and clauses. Figuring out if they're adjectival or adverbial phrases or adjectival, adverbial, or noun clauses. Active and passive voice. Predicate nominatives, predicate adjectives, direct objects, indirect objects. Simple, compound, complex, compound-complex sentences... Finally putting all these things together and diagramming them all! What could be more fun?

 

We came across a sentence in our dictation just today: "The third statement (of the Monroe Doctrine) was that any attempt of a European country to control colonies that had already declared their independence would be considered unfriendly to the United States." Ooooo, an adjectival clause within a noun clause! And the noun clause acting as a predicate nominative. Ohhhh, the ecstasy! You want to miss this?!? :svengo: Say it isn't so!

 

Exactly. I've taken two children past this point now, so I can speak from experience. After R&S 5, do R&S 6. :D They love writing, reading, grammar... My oldest wants to learn every language, she took the Computational Linguistics exam... (and this is all a hobby, she is really a science geek.) Understanding the English language is a delight.

[HappyGrace]

I've been thinking about this today and I'm kind of feeling it would be good to do something with some practical application though for next year, and then do R+S7 the following year.

 

I'm not sure what that would be though. Like I said, something along the lines of CW but w/out the writing.

 

So since I don't think I'd find something like that, I'll probably get ahold of R+S 6 and take a look at it, and also the Abeka 7.

 

Thanks! :)

[Daisy]

We are in lesson 35 of R&S English 6. I guess that answers your question. :D

 

We are HUGE R&S English fans.

 

I agree with another poster who said we'd just take off a little bit of time if we felt burned out. We wouldn't plan on ditching it altogether.

[5LittleMonkeys]

I've been thinking about this today and I'm kind of feeling it would be good to do something with some practical application throughout the year, and then do R+S7 the following year.

 

I'm not sure what that would be though. Like I said, something along the lines of CW but w/out the writing.

 

So since I don't think I'd find something like that, I'll probably get ahold of R+S 6 and take a look at it, and also the Abeka 7.

 

Thanks! :)

 

How about you just use their writing from history, science, or their writing program and discuss the grammar. You could choose 10 or so sentences per week to diagram. You could take some of their sentences and ask them to re-write them with different types of phrases in them.

 

OR...have you looked at any of the Killgallon books? That might be a good intermediate between full grammar programs. The Grammar for Middle School does a lot of work with different types of phrases. Just a thought.:001_smile:

[Heather in VA]

I don't want to do R+S 6; I've read that it goes into way too much unnecessary detail.

 

Do we need to teach more new grammar after R+S 5, or do I want something that just keeps the grammar fresh?

 

I'm considering AG, maybe. This is for bright dd11 who intuitively grasps grammar. We did MCT Town before R+S 5 and that went well (and in fact a lot of R+S 5 was review after that, but I wanted to do it for the diagramming), but I'm not sure I want to do MCT again because I think a lot of MCT is repetitive through the years, plus it's so teacher intensive.

 

She did FLL 1/2, then Shurley 3, then no grammar in 3rd grade (just Latin), then MCT in 4th and R+S 5 in 5th. She did some Minimus and Lively Latin in 2nd grade, then Latin for Children A and B in 3rd and 4th. (We've dropped Latin now.) So quite a bit of grammar.

 

This is the type of kid who will get bored if we are just reviewing the same stuff over and over, doesn't need the repetition but I still want to keep it fresh, especially the diagramming.

 

What do you all do after R+S 5?

 

We moved to R&S 6 after R&S 5 (this was my oldest) and did that for about 2 months before we both wanted to throw it out the window. We moved on to Analytical Grammar. Not only was it a breath of fresh air, but we found that she understood grammar a lot better after AG than R&S. She had to think through the jobs of each word and how things worked in a sentence in a way that R&S really hadn't forced her to. Now that isn't to say that R&S is bad. It's just for my daughter, the way AG works connected with her better AND was less painful. To me that is a great combination.

 

Heather

[HappyGrace]

Thank you, Heather. I think maybe that is what I'm trying to get at-with the R+S, she knows it and can do it perfectly, but I don't feel somehow like the application or the "owning it" is there.

 

This statement of yours is exactly what I'm looking for in a grammar program for next year: "She had to think through the jobs of each word and how things worked in a sentence in a way that R&S really hadn't forced her to."

 

I will take another look at AG. The main thing I don't like about it is how it spreads it out over 3 yrs, and I may be misunderstanding but it seems like they'd forget a lot in between. AND I want her covering some of the things that I see in yrs 2 and 3 NEXT year-not waiting to do them. So I'm not thrilled with their progression.

[Blueridge]

...

I will take another look at AG. The main thing I don't like about it is how it spreads it out over 3 yrs, and I may be misunderstanding but it seems like they'd forget a lot in between. AND I want her covering some of the things that I see in yrs 2 and 3 NEXT year-not waiting to do them. So I'm not thrilled with their progression.

 

I spoke to Mrs. Finley recently, and she showed me some products that I was not aware that they carried. If you break up the AG into 3 sections, they have Reinforcement and Review books for additional practice for the rest of each year, after the AG section has been completed. You can see their suggested progression here:

http://www.analyticalgrammar.com/analytical-grammar

[HappyGrace]

Thank you, that is helpful. The problem still remains of not wanting to wait til the next year to do phrases and clauses, etc. Yet I don't think I'd want to do the whole thing in one year. Maybe over two years?

 

And has anyone done AG with the Review and Reinforcement, and was it enough to keep it fresh? Feel free to link me to threads about this.

[birchbark]

A great program for maintenence: Daily Grammar Practice. Takes five minutes a day.

Edited April 28, 2011 by birchbark

[HSMom2One]

I am in the process of trying to decide the same thing. We are finishing up R&S 5 this year. I also own R&S 6 and had been planning to use it for 7th grade, but I'm very tempted to switch over to the WWS program and corresponding grammar that will be available later this year. I know that either program will be complete and thorough, but my heart is being tugged hard toward the new curriculum.

 

I contacted PHP and asked about whether I should make the change after R&S 5 or R&S 6. Kim was very helpful and directed me to the writing mastery evaluations to compare where my dd is now next to the WWE program. I realize this is just the writing piece, but it will help me decide at least in part when to make a transition. I'm checking to see if a similar evaluation is available for grammar as well. At any rate, I expect us to begin SWB's writing and grammar programs either this year for 7th grade or next year for 8th.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[HSMom2One]

I contacted PHP and asked about whether I should make the change after R&S 5 or R&S 6. Kim was very helpful and directed me to the writing mastery evaluations to compare where my dd is now next to the WWE program. I realize this is just the writing piece, but it will help me decide at least in part when to make a transition. I'm checking to see if a similar evaluation is available for grammar as well. At any rate, I expect us to begin SWB's writing and grammar programs either this year for 7th grade or next year for 8th.

 

 

After hearing back from Kim at PHP, a grammar evaluation is not needed and you start your student right at grade level. She explained that each level reviews the previous level while introducing new concepts. This is all sounding better and better!

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[A.J. at J.A.]

I have been planning to do R&S 6, but now you have me curious, so I will be watching this thread. :001_smile:

 

We just finished R&S 6 yesterday (Praises be!) and I'm thrilled we did it all and plan on going through R&S 7 & 8 the next couple years. I was very weak in grammar and feel that developing a strong feel for grammar will aid my boys in strong writing and communication.

 

Just my $0.02 worth. :001_smile:

 

Blessings,

Angela

[Nakia]

We just finished R&S 6 yesterday (Praises be!) and I'm thrilled we did it all and plan on going through R&S 7 & 8 the next couple years. I was very weak in grammar and feel that developing a strong feel for grammar will aid my boys in strong writing and communication.

 

Just my $0.02 worth. :001_smile:

 

Blessings,

Angela

 

Thanks! We will continue on with R&S all the way through middle school, I'm sure. :D

[Quad Shot Academy]

We are working through R&S 6. My son almost always gets everything right and usually gets a 100% on the tests. Yet, he tests very low for G.U.M on standardized tests. It is by far, his lowest score. His highest scores are in reading, rhetoric and expression. :confused: The only thing I can figure is that R&S is light on punctuation. So after 6, we are going to do Jensen's punctuation and then go into R&S 7 or 8. Does anyone have thoughts on that?

[Nakia]

We are working through R&S 6. My son almost always gets everything right and usually gets a 100% on the tests. Yet, he tests very low for G.U.M on standardized tests. It is by far, his lowest score. His highest scores are in reading, rhetoric and expression. :confused: The only thing I can figure is that R&S is light on punctuation. So after 6, we are going to do Jensen's punctuation and then go into R&S 7 or 8. Does anyone have thoughts on that?

 

Have you always used R&S for grammar? We have only used 3rd-5th grades, but I have never found it to be light on punctuation. I hope someone can help you with your other questions!

[Quad Shot Academy]

Have you always used R&S for grammar? We have only used 3rd-5th grades, but I have never found it to be light on punctuation. I hope someone can help you with your other questions!

 

Yes, always. After he tested so low in 3rd, I added some editing workbooks also.

[LauraQ]

I'd planned on skipping 6 & 7 but now I think we'll do them, but only pick parts we need to do/review and then do all of 8. I wish we'd never bothered with 2 or 4 so we wouldn't be burned out on it. 3 was a perfect starting point after English for the Thoughtful Child in 2nd grade, and then R&S 3, then 5, has been a perfect progression. All time spent in 2 & 4 felt like a waste.

[HSMom2One]

I would think that on TWTM forum there would be more conversation about the suggestions I brought up for SWB's upcoming grammar and composition programs as possible alternative to R&S. I mean, I'm not opposed to R&S, but WWS and the new logic stage language lessons sure seem like a valid option.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[HappyGrace]

But as far as I know, the next level of the grammar that SWB will come out with will be for 5th grade, and the post was about what to use after R+S 5.

 

I beta tested WWS and have posted at least three times on here about how much I LOVE it. Probably my favorite curriculum ever (and dd's). Plus I've used pretty much everything SWB has done, some of it multiple times through!

 

Unfortunately, we are ahead of her grammar books coming out.

 

I think that's all it was, Lucinda, not that we weren't interested. :)

[HSMom2One]

But as far as I know, the next level of the grammar that SWB will come out with will be for 5th grade, and the post was about what to use after R+S 5.

 

I beta tested WWS and have posted at least three times on here about how much I LOVE it. Probably my favorite curriculum ever (and dd's). Plus I've used pretty much everything SWB has done, some of it multiple times through!

 

Unfortunately, we are ahead of her grammar books coming out.

 

I think that's all it was, Lucinda, not that we weren't interested. :)

 

You know, I didn't catch that at all until you mentioned it because when I had a brief conversation with SWB on FB not long ago she grouped WWS and the new grammar all together. I see your point though, yet it was easy for me to miss since my dd and I have never used the LA programs by SWB. I will have to take a close look at it all when it comes out. I personally feel that it will be a good switch for where my dd is now. We really do need to continue digging deeper on her LA skills.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda