Rosetta Stone disappointing results

[Brilliant]

My ds is almost finished with Rosetta Stone German level 5. It has taken him almost 2 years to get through all 5 levels - I realize this is pretty fast, but he has really retained it. I know this b/c he does well on all the review sections, and, he because he does seem to be able to translate basic phrases from English to German on the fly. (Of course, I don't know German so I can't judge his accuracy, but, he SEEMS comfortable with basic translations).

 

DS is going to take the SAT II Biology test in June, so for fun I decided to give him the sample questions from the SAT II German test. He got 2 of the 13 correct and could not begin to translate a couple of the passages. (he would have done better at random guessing). I was really disappointed.

 

I know we have discussed on this board many times that RS needs a supplement and isn't a full high school curriculum. But - some say that each level of RS is a year of hs? NO, it is not. The College Board website says a student should have at least 2 years of high school German before attempting the SAT II test - the 5 levels of Rosetta Stone don't even begin to cover those 2 years. We are counting his level 3-5 Rosetta Stone work this year as German 1 which I thought wasn't generous enough when we planned the year - but now I think it is. :(

 

Edited to add that I didn't think he would be prepared enough to do WELL on the SAT II test because of the RS weakness in grammar. But I sure thought he would be better prepared than 2 out of 13.

Edited April 19, 2011 by OC Mom

[Susan C.]

I wouldn't be upset.... if he has learned and grown in the language, that is a good thing. Learning a foreign language takes many years. I suspect you have to keep going over it to retain it. DD is trying to do Spanish, and is in her second year. We have used various things. Some have worked better than others. We are just doing 45 minutes a day, and checking for growth in skills. At some point, she will need a tutor, Spanish teacher, or actually go to a place that is Spanish speaking to get to a point where she is actually bilingual. It will be up to her how far she takes it.

 

Ds college allows testing out of foreign language. So, your ds may still pass that at the college he picks. All they did was talk in the native tongue, ask five questions, then expect answers in the language.

[OLG]

Don't be too disappointed - that German SAT2 is really difficult. My ds had four years of outside instruction and found it sobering. Not defending RS, just saying it's a difficult exam.

[Brilliant]

I wouldn't be upset.... if he has learned and grown in the language, that is a good thing. ...

 

Yes, he has, and he has enjoyed it for the most part.

 

Don't be too disappointed - that German SAT2 is really difficult. My ds had four years of outside instruction and found it sobering. Not defending RS, just saying it's a difficult exam.

 

That's interesting - I didn't have any prior knowledge of this test.

 

In any case, ds' next step was always going to be German I at the CC and I expected the RS to give him a good head start. So that is still true, of course.

 

But I still expected more, somehow. Perhaps due to the ridiculously high expense most homeschoolers incur to take this course.

Edited April 19, 2011 by OC Mom

[calandalsmom]

I don't think its fair to judge RS based on the SAT2.

 

RS is not designed to prep for SAT2.

If interested in SAT2, probably you should take a class which teaches directly to the SAT2.

 

I think what RS probably teaches is how to get around and how to actually speak the language- this is invaluable. But only IRL. not on paper.

 

http://sat.collegeboard.com/practice/practice-question-submit-answer

 

You can check out some stuff here.

 

I havent spoken german since 1994 when I lived in Switzerland. I didnt find them too bad. But you need grammar.

Edited April 19, 2011 by calandalsmom

[Julie in MN]

I'm just going to agree with the others. RS is not college and is not created as test prep.

 

But more than that, learning a language from a program is just going to vary. We've discussed RS on the boards before and I mentioned French exchange students we had here. All had studied English endlessly and few could even communicate. Our student had an absolute *passion* for American movies, and she spoke excellent English. Same teaching, different results.

 

I don't think a program can be blamed for not preparing a student for 13 questions that it wasn't created to prepare for, over that very short period of 2 years. I mean, unless the student was really throwing themselves into many hours of training and reinforcement (like my niece who's in Army training, now there's an example of throwing oneself into learning a language in 2 years!).

 

Julie

[Brilliant]

I know RS isn't designed to prep for the SAT II. But there have been discussions on this very board about Rosetta Stone being OK for high school credit AND each level being equivalent to 1 year of hs German, which would put completion of RS level 5 at the equivalent of hs German year 5! So that's the main reason I am putting this out there - it seems that completing all 5 levels hasn't given ds more than a rudimentary knowledge.

[calandalsmom]

I know RS isn't designed to prep for the SAT II. But there have been discussions on this very board about Rosetta Stone being OK for high school credit AND each level being equivalent to 1 year of hs German, which would put completion of RS level 5 at the equivalent of hs German year 5! So that's the main reason I am putting this out there - it seems that completing all 5 levels hasn't given ds more than a rudimentary knowledge.

 

But that may well depend on the individual working with the program, no?

[Brilliant]

But that may well depend on the individual working with the program, no?

 

Of course. My ds is extremely bright (verified by high percentiles on standardized tests). He was also very motivated to learn German. He also completed all the review sections with high scores, which means by the program's own standards he has been learning the material. I'm not sure what other advantages a student could have OTHER THAN using additional materials and NOT relying on RS as a high school stand-alone program.

 

I really did not mean to step on any toes with my criticism of RS.

[distancia]

Our public high school uses RS for German. My neighbor--a native German speaker--has a child enrolled in the 3rd year German class, which is actually 3.5 years of German, because in the middle of the cycle the school offered an Intro German college credit course for one semester.

 

My neighbor--I just got off the 'phone with her, as I asked on your behalf--says that her child has not learned anything of value while in the German class using RS. She (mother) said that after 3 years and all As she would have expected some improvement, but there has been none. The only positive she can give is that RS reinforces whatever vocab the family has learned on their annual summer trips to Germany. But in terms of grammar (they do use a RS workbook, but it seems ineffective) the mom said she was highly disappointed.

 

In fact, she was so disappointed with her child's lack of progress that she went to the school and looked over the materials, sat down in the language lab and used the program herself. She said it did not detect her voice as being correct (within the "green") although her pronunciation and inflection, as a native speaker, is excellent.

 

In short, she said she would never wish this program on anyone, and when her child goes off to college this fall she will not pay for instruction if the class uses RS, she will put the money towards a foreign exchange semester. BTW, she (mom) did also say that German is a hard language to learn, since the grammatical structure is difficult. She added that the quality of instruction and the teacher's competence is highly important, because of the nuances of the language.

 

As a frame of comparison, my husband took 2 years of German jr/sr years in high school, and both instructors were native speakers. With just those 2 years of German behind him, hubby was fluent enough to travel to Germany after he graduated high school, and he spent 6 weeks working in a hotel there and communicated easily. Of course, this was 30 years ago, when education overall was more rigorous. Hubby says his h/s German class was a lot of work (though nothing like his Latin class) and they were drilled almost daily in class--in his words "they didn't cut us any slack like they do nowadays."

 

Good luck.

Edited April 24, 2011 by distancia

[Ester Maria]

RS is a perfect example for what a good marketing can do: sell to the whole world (not just a handful of naive individuals!) a pretty worthless product (not just "a bit worse than the rest", but truly several levels below most language programs out there!) and make them believe it will do them good, while at the same time having nearly all experts in the field (linguists!) against them, and to do so under crazy rules such as no reselling (can you imagine?!).

 

Truly, mind-boggling. It takes a TERRIFIC marketing to do that. It never ceases to amaze me. If I were ever to sell a product, I would like the marketing to be done by somebody who can do that.

 

And I not surprised the least by your story, unfortunately. :( I was paid more than once to "fix" what RS "messed up" when it comes to other languages, with grand promises and then turning people without any real, tangible competences.

[cathmom]

RS is a perfect example for what a good marketing can do: sell to the whole world (not just a handful of naive individuals!) a pretty worthless product (not just "a bit worse than the rest", but truly several levels below most language programs out there!) and make them believe it will do them good, while at the same time having nearly all experts in the field (linguists!) against them, and to do so under crazy rules such as no reselling (can you imagine?!).

 

Truly, mind-boggling. It takes a TERRIFIC marketing to do that. It never ceases to amaze me. If I were ever to sell a product, I would like the marketing to be done by somebody who can do that.

 

And I not surprised the least by your story, unfortunately. :( I was paid more than once to "fix" what RS "messed up" when it comes to other languages, with grand promises and then turning people without any real, tangible competences.

 

ditto a thousand times!

 

As a German teacher, I am not surprised by your story. I am sorry, however.

[Ester Maria]

snip

Nice to see you again. :001_wub: :)

[cathmom]

Nice to see you again. :001_wub: :)

 

Thanks...couldn't resist posting on one of my pet peeve topics! :D

[Kristen62]

Thank you for the information on RS. My daughter has been doing the French Levels I & II. She mainly works on her own, but I gave her two assignments to finish up her senior year, which would involve conjugating and writing sentences. She said she would not be able to complete them in French. I have to say I wish I had done some homework on this forum before we started. When I took two years of German, in high school, from a native speaker, the class learned to conjugate many sentences, read from literature in German and I could translate German when I got to Germany. I wouldn't say I could carry on a conversation, but what I was taught definitely made me more comfortable. I expected my daughter to be able to conjugate and translate much more than she is able to do. Very disappointing, but no I see it is my fault. I guess I had better let her off the hook with the Senior assignments. She has them all done in English, so maybe she could just translate the parts she knows.

[cbollin]

RS is a perfect example for what a good marketing can do: sell to the whole world (not just a handful of naive individuals!) a pretty worthless product (not just "a bit worse than the rest", but truly several levels below most language programs out there!) and make them believe it will do them good, while at the same time having nearly all experts in the field (linguists!) against them, and to do so under crazy rules such as no reselling (can you imagine?!).

 

Truly, mind-boggling. It takes a TERRIFIC marketing to do that. It never ceases to amaze me. If I were ever to sell a product, I would like the marketing to be done by somebody who can do that.

 

And I not surprised the least by your story, unfortunately. :( I was paid more than once to "fix" what RS "messed up" when it comes to other languages, with grand promises and then turning people without any real, tangible competences.

 

 

wow..... I guess it depends on the goals one has for learning a language in HIGH School.

 

I'm sticking with it because it meets my goals good enough for learning to be comfortable speaking the language.

 

I got all A's in high school foreign language and couldn't speak it. did great on seat work with standard books.

 

then in college, I took a new language via immersion methods and some text. learned more than year in a new language than in 3 years in high school level. was able to speak and live in the country where that language was spoken.

 

I don't expect RS to be a college level, year 3 course at all.

but to each her own.

 

I never saw the RS marketing until years after I was using it. I saw the product at a homeschool convention. Tried it without listening to any sales pitch or anything. Played with it for about 1 hour and said "ok.. I'm buying."

no marketing involved on me. That was either 2002 or 2003.

 

It just fit what I needed. but to each her own. It's ok to not like RS or to not use it either.

 

-crystal

[herbalgirl]

RS is a perfect example for what a good marketing can do: sell to the whole world (not just a handful of naive individuals!) a pretty worthless product (not just "a bit worse than the rest", but truly several levels below most language programs out there!) and make them believe it will do them good, while at the same time having nearly all experts in the field (linguists!) against them, and to do so under crazy rules such as no reselling (can you imagine?!).

 

Truly, mind-boggling. It takes a TERRIFIC marketing to do that. It never ceases to amaze me. If I were ever to sell a product, I would like the marketing to be done by somebody who can do that.

 

:iagree: My husband and I went to language school while in the military. My husband is thoroughly unimpressed with RS's method of teaching language. He said there is no way we will purchase that for our kids.

 

It makes us mad because it is SO expensive and is THE language program touted as making all the difference. :glare:

[Ester Maria]

I guess it depends on the goals one has for learning a language in HIGH School.

Beginner English program for a 5-year program in one Italian lycee (copy-pasting it from a file I have):

 

Year I:

 

 

• Name

• Address

• Greetings

• Meeting people

• Permission and request forms

• Locations

• Geographical information about the anglophone countries

• Personal information

• Jobs and places of Work

• Days of week, months, seasons, time expressions

• GRAMMAR

• Articolo determinativo

• Articoli indeterminativi

• Pronomi personali soggetto

• Pronomi personali complemento

• Plurale dei nomi irregolari

• Aggettivi dimostrativi

• Presente degli ausiliari: TO HAVE e TO BE

• Forma affermativa, negativa, interrogativa, interrogativa-negativa

• Presente semplice vs. present continuous

• Forma affermativa, negativa, interrogativa, interrogativa- negativa dei tempi di base

• Avverbi di frequenza

• Aggettivi e pronomi possessivi

• Genitivo sassone

• Preposizioni di stato in luogo ( at/ in)

• Preposizioni di moto a e da luogo ( to/from)

 

Year II:

 

 

• GRAMMATICA

• Verbs to be and to have: all forms

• Interrogative, Affirmative and Negative forms

• Irregular plurals

• Demonstrative adjectives and pronouns

• Possessive adjectives and pronouns

• Possessive case

• Past participles of irregular verbs

• Interrogative, Affirmative and Negative forms of all tenses

• Frequency Adverbs

• Who…/ What…, relative pronouns

• Countries and Nationalities

• How Much / How Many

• Modal Verbs: can, must

• Subjunctive expressions

• Present Perfect

• Simple Past vs Present Perfect

• The Future (will, going to)

• Comparativi di maggioranza, minoranza, uguaglianza

 

Year III:

 

 

• The Middle Ages

• Historical Background

• Literary production

• Poetry in the Middle Ages

• From the Norman Conquest to Chaucer

• Geoffrey Chaucer (Life and Works)

• The Canterbury Tales (Plot and Structure)

• Prologue of the Canterbury Tales

• The Knight’s Tale

• The Slaves of Love from the Knight’s Tale (Text analysis)

• The Tudor Period

• Historical Background

• Literary Production

• Thomas Malory (Life and Works)

• Morte Dartur (Plot and Structure)

• Bedivere’s Test From Morte Dartur (Text analysis)

• Poetry in Tudor’s Age

• Whyatt and Surrey

• Edmund Spenser (Life and Works)

• The Faerie Queene (Plot and Stucture)

• Sonnet: One Day I wrote Her Name (Text analysis)

• The Elizabethan Period

• Historical Background

• Literary Production

• Poetry: The sonnet

• Shakespeare, Sonnets XVIII; CXXX (Text analysis)

• The Growth of Drama

• Cristopher Marlowe (Life and Works)

• The Tragical History of Doctor Faustus (Plot and Structure)

• “ Faustus’s Last Hour” Lines 1-58 (Text analysis)

• William Shakespeare (Life and Works)

• Hamlet Prince of Denmark (Plot and Structure)

• Hamlet’s sadness, Act I, Scene II, lines 1-30 (Text analysis)

• Romeo and Juliet (Plot and Structure)

• GRAMMATICA (mostly overview)

• Simple Past (Regular and Irregular verbs)

• Present Perfect

• Simple Past vs Present Perfect

• Comparativi di Maggioranza, Minoranza, Uguaglianza

• Superlativi Relativo, Assoluto

• Comparativi e superlativi irregolari

• Uso di How Much e How Many

• Futuro: gli ausiliari Will /Shall

• Futuro Intenzionale

• Condizionale

 

Year IV:

 

 

• The 17th Century

• Historical Background

• Literary Production

• Poetry: The Metaphysical Poets

• John Donne (Life and Works)

• “The Flea” from Holy Sonnets

• John Milton (Life and Works)

• Paradise Lost (Plot and Structure)

• From Paradise Lost Book 1 Introduction, Book I (Text analysis)

• The Restoration

• Historical Background

• Literary Production

• Restoration Drama

• John Dryden (Life and Works)

• “A Song for St. Cecilia’s Day” (Plot and Structure)

• William Congreve (Life and Works)

• The Way of the World (Plot and Structure)

• Provisos from The Way of the World Act IV, Scene V Lines 1-80 (Text analysis)

• The Enlightenment

• Historical Background

• New Sensibility and New Style: Order, Harmony, Beauty

• Language: Elevated style for elevated thoughts

• Realism

• The role of the author

• Journalism:

• Joseph Addison (Personal history)

• The importance of The Spectactor

• Satire:

• Alexander Pope (Life and Works)

• The Rape of the Lock (Plot and Structure)

• Jonathan Swift (Life and Works)

• Gulliver’s Travel (Plot and Structure)

• “It a Melancholy Object” from A Modest Proposal (Text analysis)

• The Novel: Daniel Defoe (Life and Works)

• Robinson Crusoe (Plot and Structure)

• “A Footprint” from Robinson Crusoe (Text analysis)

• The Pre-Romantic Tradition

• Thomas Gray (Life and Works)

• Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard (Plot and Structure)

• GRAMMATICA

• Revisione generale

• Tempi presenti e passati

• Condizionale Presente e Passato

• Verbi seguiti dal gerundio

• Traduzione

 

Year V:

 

 

• THE ROMANTIC PERIOD: THE HISTORICAL AND SOCIAL BACKGROUND

• The first generation:

• William Wordsworth: “The solitary Reaper”; “Daffodils”.

• S.T. Coleridge: “The Rime of the Ancient Mariner”

• P. B. Shelley: Ode to the West Wind

• John Keats: “Ode on a Grecian Urn”

• Walter Scott.

• THE VICTORIAN AGE: THE HISTORICAL AND SOCIAL BACKGROUND

• The literary production: Charles Dickens

• Oscar Wilde: “The importance of being Earnest”

• G.Bernard Shaw

• THE 20TH CENTURY: THE HISTORICAL AND SOCIAL BACKGROUND

• The literary production: Modernism

• T. Stearns Eliot

• Joyce Orwell: “Animal Farm” ( the final party)

• The Romantic period: Jane Austen

• The Victorian Age: Emily Bronte

• The 20th century: Virninia Woolf

 

Number of classroom hours weekly: 3

Type of lycee: scientific (i.e. NOT humanities-oriented, NOT with a special focus on literature and foreign languages!) lycee

Type of English instruction: complete beginner entering year I (i.e. ZERO previous knowledge required, and as you can see, LITERATURE is studied from the third year onward, in a chronological fashion)

 

In my view, this is more or less how a foreign language studies should be structured: a complete and systematic coverage of grammar + excerpts from literature from about the third year on, to the point of reading full works.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Ester Maria

[AngelBee]

Beginner English program for a 5-year program in one Italian lycee (copy-pasting it from a file I have):

 

Year I:

 

 

• Name

• Address

• Greetings

• Meeting people

• Permission and request forms

• Locations

• Geographical information about the anglophone countries

• Personal information

• Jobs and places of Work

• Days of week, months, seasons, time expressions

• GRAMMAR

• Articolo determinativo

• Articoli indeterminativi

• Pronomi personali soggetto

• Pronomi personali complemento

• Plurale dei nomi irregolari

• Aggettivi dimostrativi

• Presente degli ausiliari: TO HAVE e TO BE

• Forma affermativa, negativa, interrogativa, interrogativa-negativa

• Presente semplice vs. present continuous

• Forma affermativa, negativa, interrogativa, interrogativa- negativa dei tempi di base

• Avverbi di frequenza

• Aggettivi e pronomi possessivi

• Genitivo sassone

• Preposizioni di stato in luogo ( at/ in)

• Preposizioni di moto a e da luogo ( to/from)

Year II:

 

 

• GRAMMATICA

• Verbs to be and to have: all forms

• Interrogative, Affirmative and Negative forms

• Irregular plurals

• Demonstrative adjectives and pronouns

• Possessive adjectives and pronouns

• Possessive case

• Past participles of irregular verbs

• Interrogative, Affirmative and Negative forms of all tenses

• Frequency Adverbs

• Who…/ What…, relative pronouns

• Countries and Nationalities

• How Much / How Many

• Modal Verbs: can, must

• Subjunctive expressions

• Present Perfect

• Simple Past vs Present Perfect

• The Future (will, going to)

• Comparativi di maggioranza, minoranza, uguaglianza

Year III:

 

 

• The Middle Ages

• Historical Background

• Literary production

• Poetry in the Middle Ages

• From the Norman Conquest to Chaucer

• Geoffrey Chaucer (Life and Works)

• The Canterbury Tales (Plot and Structure)

• Prologue of the Canterbury Tales

• The Knight’s Tale

• The Slaves of Love from the Knight’s Tale (Text analysis)

• The Tudor Period

• Historical Background

• Literary Production

• Thomas Malory (Life and Works)

• Morte Dartur (Plot and Structure)

• Bedivere’s Test From Morte Dartur (Text analysis)

• Poetry in Tudor’s Age

• Whyatt and Surrey

• Edmund Spenser (Life and Works)

• The Faerie Queene (Plot and Stucture)

• Sonnet: One Day I wrote Her Name (Text analysis)

• The Elizabethan Period

• Historical Background

• Literary Production

• Poetry: The sonnet

• Shakespeare, Sonnets XVIII; CXXX (Text analysis)

• The Growth of Drama

• Cristopher Marlowe (Life and Works)

• The Tragical History of Doctor Faustus (Plot and Structure)

• “ Faustus’s Last Hour” Lines 1-58 (Text analysis)

• William Shakespeare (Life and Works)

• Hamlet Prince of Denmark (Plot and Structure)

• Hamlet’s sadness, Act I, Scene II, lines 1-30 (Text analysis)

• Romeo and Juliet (Plot and Structure)

• GRAMMATICA (mostly overview)

• Simple Past (Regular and Irregular verbs)

• Present Perfect

• Simple Past vs Present Perfect

• Comparativi di Maggioranza, Minoranza, Uguaglianza

• Superlativi Relativo, Assoluto

• Comparativi e superlativi irregolari

• Uso di How Much e How Many

• Futuro: gli ausiliari Will /Shall

• Futuro Intenzionale

• Condizionale

Year IV:

 

 

• The 17th Century

• Historical Background

• Literary Production

• Poetry: The Metaphysical Poets

• John Donne (Life and Works)

• “The Flea” from Holy Sonnets

• John Milton (Life and Works)

• Paradise Lost (Plot and Structure)

• From Paradise Lost Book 1 Introduction, Book I (Text analysis)

• The Restoration

• Historical Background

• Literary Production

• Restoration Drama

• John Dryden (Life and Works)

• “A Song for St. Cecilia’s Day” (Plot and Structure)

• William Congreve (Life and Works)

• The Way of the World (Plot and Structure)

• Provisos from The Way of the World Act IV, Scene V Lines 1-80 (Text analysis)

• The Enlightenment

• Historical Background

• New Sensibility and New Style: Order, Harmony, Beauty

• Language: Elevated style for elevated thoughts

• Realism

• The role of the author

• Journalism:

• Joseph Addison (Personal history)

• The importance of The Spectactor

• Satire:

• Alexander Pope (Life and Works)

• The Rape of the Lock (Plot and Structure)

• Jonathan Swift (Life and Works)

• Gulliver’s Travel (Plot and Structure)

• “It a Melancholy Object” from A Modest Proposal (Text analysis)

• The Novel: Daniel Defoe (Life and Works)

• Robinson Crusoe (Plot and Structure)

• “A Footprint” from Robinson Crusoe (Text analysis)

• The Pre-Romantic Tradition

• Thomas Gray (Life and Works)

• Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard (Plot and Structure)

• GRAMMATICA

• Revisione generale

• Tempi presenti e passati

• Condizionale Presente e Passato

• Verbi seguiti dal gerundio

• Traduzione

Year V:

 

 

• THE ROMANTIC PERIOD: THE HISTORICAL AND SOCIAL BACKGROUND

• The first generation:

• William Wordsworth: “The solitary Reaper”; “Daffodils”.

• S.T. Coleridge: “The Rime of the Ancient Mariner”

• P. B. Shelley: Ode to the West Wind

• John Keats: “Ode on a Grecian Urn”

• Walter Scott.

• THE VICTORIAN AGE: THE HISTORICAL AND SOCIAL BACKGROUND

• The literary production: Charles Dickens

• Oscar Wilde: “The importance of being Earnest”

• G.Bernard Shaw

• THE 20TH CENTURY: THE HISTORICAL AND SOCIAL BACKGROUND

• The literary production: Modernism

• T. Stearns Eliot

• Joyce Orwell: “Animal Farm” ( the final party)

• The Romantic period: Jane Austen

• The Victorian Age: Emily Bronte

• The 20th century: Virninia Woolf

Number of classroom hours weekly: 3

Type of lycee: scientific (i.e. NOT humanities-oriented, NOT with a special focus on literature and foreign languages!) lycee

Type of English instruction: complete beginner entering year I (i.e. ZERO previous knowledge required, and as you can see, LITERATURE is studied from the third year onward, in a chronological fashion)

I am not sure I can do all of that in English...my native language. :001_huh: :lol:

 

I am really sad that my grandpa never passed down his native tongue to his children. He came to the United States as a babay from Italy.

 

I would LOVE to speak a few language. I feel like that is so difficult for me. :(

Edited April 25, 2011 by AngelBee

[Ester Maria]

I am not sure I can do all of that in English...my native language. :001_huh: :lol:

It sounds more impressive than it is. :lol:

 

It mostly comes down to readings ABOUT those stuff + chronologically organized excerpts from literature, with several full works in the last year or two.

 

My point was, the program is ambitious. I am NOT claiming everyone should adopt this particular approach for foreign language studies, just throwing some food for thought by showing some of the stuff which ARE out there, and some possible approaches for foreign language studies which are a lot more demanding than the contents of RS.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Ester Maria

[AngelBee]

It sounds more impressive than it is. :lol:

 

It mostly comes down to readings ABOUT those stuff + chronologically organized excerpts from literature, with several full works in the last year or two.

That would be awesome.

 

Did edit in pp and added that my family is from Italy. :) I wish so badly that I spoke the language that my papa did.

 

It just didnt seem cool or important to keep the language when he was here. I don't know why.

 

But that seems common in America for native speakers of other languages to not teach their children.

[AngelBee]

It sounds more impressive than it is. :lol:

 

It mostly comes down to readings ABOUT those stuff + chronologically organized excerpts from literature, with several full works in the last year or two.

 

My point was, the program is ambitious. I am NOT claiming everyone should adopt this particular approach for foreign language studies, just throwing some food for thought by showing some of the stuff which ARE out there, and some possible approaches for foreign language studies which are a lot more demanding than the contents of RS.

How do you impliment it though? Especially if you are not a native speaker of that language?

 

My goal is that my children will be fluent in Spanish by graduation. Also take additional languages of their choice.

 

We also do latin and American sign language.

[cbollin]

"My point was, the program is ambitious. I am NOT claiming everyone should adopt this particular approach for foreign language studies, just throwing some food for thought by showing some of the stuff which ARE out there, and some possible approaches for foreign language studies which are a lot more demanding than the contents of RS. "

 

I agree that the contents of RS aren't super ambitious. I'm a little odd that I'd rather my kiddo have more rigor in other subjects I guess. I'm weird. I know.

 

The plan you mentioned seems to share lots of common points in year 1 and year 2 with early parts of RS 1 and 2. Then, after that, I probably wouldn't use RS as full program either, but the language my dd likes doesn't go above level 3 so it's not the same issue.

 

Now you have me remembering my college days... (oh no... I'm old and feeling like rambling. .run and hide now)

After completing 2 semesters in Italian, I got to go to study abroad that summer but we didn't do major literature stuff then either. And the native Italians who had taken English weren't trying to talk Literature either. And they were ages 18 and 19 that I was hanging out with.

 

and then, my dh, who has a minor in French (or should have but didn't fill the paperwork in to have it on transcript in undergrad) got to take in his college year 3 class, a full French Lit class about some French author (Robbe Grillet) who was also the professor.

 

well... that's enough memory lane for me. I'm just too old for this stuff

 

-crystal

[Ester Maria]

But that seems common in America for native speakers of other languages to not teach their children.

This is the common problem with immigrant countries, because keeping up one's previous language and culture is often viewed as "not really wanting to assimilate", "clinging on to past", etc. Few people and few groups, on the long run, keep their language and customs - in most cases some sort of mild, vague "family folklore" remains, but not past that...

 

However, it is never too late to learn on your own. :)

How do you impliment it though? Especially if you are not a native speaker of that language?

That is the tough part, honestly. I suppose the only way is to outsource it, because to teach language at the level of literature is quite demanding and cannot be done if the teacher does not speak the language (and is familiar with general history and literature overview).

 

There are many downsides to the "literary approach" in foreign language teaching too, as it often focuses so much on the text that in neglects real-time communication, speaking, etc. I know it sounds completely crazy if I tell you that many kids who follow such a program cannot speak English - they can read it, and often they can read it well because they were exposed to many different historical layers of the language, but if you were to speak to them, you would be less than thrilled, trust me. It is a big problem, particularly in "good schools" which emphasize text. In other schools which often give up on much of text for the sake of conversational skills they have better results when it comes to speaking, for example. There is just only so much you can do in 3 classroom hours, and if you delegate some of that for homework, you have to count with the fact that many kids will not do it, and will get behind, and will "cheat" in the upper years by preparing translations, etc.

 

I have a friend who teaches Italian in one neighboring country, 4 hours weekly, in a 4-year program which emphasizes foreign languages. She uses Progetto Italiano 1-2-3 for the first three years (she supplements it by some additional readings every year), so it is 2 years of grammar, a third year of solidifying all of that via authentic shorter texts, and then in the 4th year she does literature: I think she does something like 20 "classical" poems (the most famous ones, from Petrarca to Leopardi), a few full cantos from Dante with paraphrases and with an overview study of Commedia, a few novels from Decameron, excerpts from Manzoni with an overview study of Promessi sposi, Ariosto and Tasso in excerpts too, one Pirandello novel or play and one modern novel which I think kids picked on their own anyway and wrote about. It is an "elite" school, though, too (public, but aimed at academically strong kids), so not "representative", just one of the models which exist.

 

If I were to design a 4-year beginner Spanish program, I would shoot for something like that: grammar "done" in two years, a third year of passage from advanced grammar to texts (while keeping them short and sweet, with maybe some shorter modern novels), and a fourth year of intense literary studies, chronological approach. I would definitely outsource the actual teaching of that, though. Isn't the AP exam route something similar? I know for French, not sure about Spanish, but maybe you can check their sequences for guidelines?

[Ester Maria]

After completing 2 semesters in Italian, I got to go to study abroad that summer but we didn't do major literature stuff then either. And the native Italians who had taken English weren't trying to talk Literature either. And they were ages 18 and 19 that I was hanging out with.

Italian schools are often disastrous by my standards (not in THEORY, but in PRACTICE - in theory, they have GOOD programs), with something like 5-10% of exceptions in which you will get the education which, seriously, tops anything you will see in most private American schools (and it is public Italian schools I am talking about).

This program, if impleted in one of the "worse" schools (I actually think that the "official" English lycee program is not too far removed from it), will fail, just like many Italian schools fail miserably at doing their job. Even if kids go through it, it will ultimately fail at a long-term goal in terms of language knowledge, a basic understanding of culture and literature, etc. These are "ministeral standards" for scientific lycees, which are vague, but if you read through them, you will see that they include literary studies too.

 

It does not surprise me at all what you say, as any school system is hard to "generalize", especially so "academically stratified" systems as the Italian one, Italians are known for being bad at languages, except maybe at French (which was traditionally a favored foreign language). As for what they teach (or do not teach :lol:) to foreigners in summer schools, that is a whole different boat too and it is not connected to the Italian school system. If you had studied Italian in the department of Italianistics of a major Italian university, on equal terms as native Italians, you would have definitely studied literature, trust me.

But there is simply an option that you did not see the best the education in Italy has to offer, but, maybe, the other side of the medal. Which is also very real, I agree, as is real that some American schools do a terrific job in foreign language teaching, in spite of all prejudices about "Americans who don't speak foreign langugages". But you can take ANY of those ambitious programs - whether Italian or American - and contrast that approach to foreign language instruction to RS approach.

 

I entirely understand why some people would wish to emphasize other areas, though. Everybody has their priorities and, at the end of the day, your homeschool and your rules. :)

Edited April 25, 2011 by Ester Maria

[cbollin]

Italian schools are disastrous by my standards, with something like 5-10% of exceptions in which you will get the education which, seriously, tops anything you will see in most private American schools (and it is public Italian schools I am talking about).

This program, if impleted in one of the "worse" schools (I actually think that the "official" English lycee program is not too far removed from it), will fail, just like many Italian schools fail miserably at doing their job. Even if kids go through it, it will ultimately fail at a long-term goal in terms of language knowledge, a basic understanding of culture and literature, etc. These are "ministeral standards" for scientific lycees, which are vague, but if you read through them, you will see that they include literary studies too.

 

It does not surprise me at all what you say, as any school system is hard to "generalize", especially so "academically stratified" systems as the Italian one, Italians are known for being bad at languages, except maybe at French (which was traditionally a favored foreign language). As for what they teach (or do not teach :lol:) to foreigners in summer schools, that is a whole different boat too and it is not connected to the Italian school system. If you had studied Italian in the department of Italianistics of a major Italian university, on equal terms as native Italians, you would have definitely studied literature, trust me.

But there is simply an option that you did not see the best the education in Italy has to offer, but, maybe, the other side of the medal. Which is also very real, I agree, as is real that some American schools do a terrific job in foreign language teaching, in spite of all prejudices about "Americans who don't speak foreign langugages". But you can take ANY of those ambitious programs - whether Italian or American - and contrast that approach to foreign language instruction to RS approach.

 

I entirely understand why some people would wish to emphasize other areas, though. Everybody has their priorities and, at the end of the day, your homeschool and your rules. :)

 

 

Well, none of that describes my situation. But I can understand why you misread what I wrote as I didn't leave all details for you to have any idea what I did.

 

I took Italian 101 and 102 college level in the US at a university with a very high ranking university (in the top 13 in the US, top 30 in the world). Then, our US professor from that university course, took some of us for 6 weeks to study Italian 201 under his teaching. (and we also got 2 credits for a culture study with field trips and just living there, and getting to host the major of our town in our area.) Professore was not a native speaker, but holds a phd in Italian languages and is fluent. We lived in a pensione that was the upstairs of a Franciscan monastery. The Italian students were just people in the town that we'd hang out with. Some of them had been pen pals with us during that college year. So we weren't in class with them, nor was it an Italian public school. It was our university's standards (Washington Univ in ST.Louis).

 

Then, there was the extended family of one of the brothers at the monastery. They were a fun family to hang out with. I remember one weekend, most of the other Wash. U students had gone out of town for weekend fun, but I stayed at the monastery and planned to hang out in the town. I ended up eating in the "family kitchen" of the monastery. At first, I was supposed to stay in the dining hall, but then the matriarch of the family (her brother was one of the brothers but not the leader of the brothers).... anyway, she came out to the dining room and told me "come to the kitchen. This weekend you are family." They brought out photos and then stories about "after the war". They showed me around the parts of the building that otherwise I wasn't supposed to be in. then, I got to hang the laundry on the line with them. Went to mass with them -- there at the monastery of course. So I was Catholic for a weekend. :lol:

 

That was a wonderful 7 credits to earn in 6 weeks time. And I barely remember the night I had supper at the home of my pen pal. I got to drink the family wine! wow! :) We turned on the TV news and saw that President Reagan was in West Berlin that day and had given a speech to tear down this wall.

 

sadly, after the summer, I was unable to continue in Italian courses due to conflicts with schedules with my business major classes in marketing and quantitative business analysis. sigh.

 

I warned you.... I'm old and I get to rambling about the summer of 19 and 87.

 

but I don't remember what I ate for breakfast. I remember eating a lot of rabbit in Italy. We learned not to pet our supper.:lol:

 

-crystal

[Ester Maria]

Sounds like you had a good time in Italy! :) Glad for you.

[Tardis Girl]

I really like Ester Maria's outline for a 5-yr course, but is there something out there that supports that type of thing for working on it at home? Would Tell Me More be better than RS at accomplishing some of these goals, coupled with some book instruction and then later working into literature? If outsourcing isn't an option, what is one to do?

 

Not really looking at German or Italian, but more like Japanese (possibly Korean) and Spanish.

 

Thanks!

Stacey

[rlugbill]

I was a French major in college- had a German minor. When my dd wanted to learn French, I spent $500 for the Rosetta Stone program.

 

I liked the immersion approach and I hated the way I had been taught foreign language in high school. I figured this had to be better- at least it was in French.

 

But it is too passive. Not worth much. Recently, I went to a private school and just borrowed their French book and started teaching my daughter French.

 

It is so much more effective. She is finally learning French. The foreign language books are much better now than they were when I was in school.

 

The Rosetta Stone was not a bad introduction to French. But it is only a very basic introduction. Working through a standard French textbook is much more effective, IMHO. And the price = $0.

 

My daughter feels the same way. She asked me- "Why didn't you just borrow a book from the school before instead of doing the Rosetta Stone?"

 

And, my computer had a virus, so Rosetta Stone wouldn't work on it. So, I bought an old laptop for my dd to do Rosetta Stone on. I tried to load it but there was some problem with the authentication code. Major hassle. Why do they need an authentication code?

 

We finally located the receipt from 3 years ago when we bought it, but then I called back and they tried to help me, but it still didn't work. And now, it still doesn't work. Maybe after hours on the phone I can get it to work but this is crazy.

 

If I buy a regular educational software program for $25, I can load it on a new computer with no problem, but with a $500 program, you can't for some reason.

 

Anyway, if you can speak the language to any degree or can find someone who does, do not get Rosetta Stone and save the $500. Or, if you can't speak the language, but you can afford the Rosetta Stone price, you can afford a tutor, which will be much more effective than Rosetta Stone.

 

In any case, I do not recommend Rosetta Stone. Even if it only cost $25, it would only be ok as an introduction or supplement. At the exhorbitant price they charge, it is a huge waste of money.

[cbollin]

 

And, my computer had a virus, so Rosetta Stone wouldn't work on it. So, I bought an old laptop for my dd to do Rosetta Stone on. I tried to load it but there was some problem with the authentication code. Major hassle. Why do they need an authentication code?

 

we had no problems loading the program. sorry you had a lot of frustration. :grouphug:

 

 

Or, if you can't speak the language, but you can afford the Rosetta Stone price, you can afford a tutor, which will be much more effective than Rosetta Stone.

 

 

I just wish I could find a tutor for $159 one year. :) I can find people willing to spend a few minutes talking in the target language, but no tutor who can teach the language from the start. grr...

 

oh well... I'm avoiding cleaning the kitchen. I should get back to it instead of talking about myself.

 

mostly just wanted to give a few hugs on the frustration you had with the program not loading and the computer stuff.

 

-crystal

[Joan in GE]

About the OP comments, I thought the comments about SAT II German from my ds's German teacher would give insight...

 

"The SAT II German subject can be taken after only two years of German. It measures mostly the ability to understand written German and has some questions that can be answered by students at that level. Most of the questions on the SAT are equivalent to what we expect students to be able to do in German III and IV."

 

So even for a regular high school program, the SAT II could be difficult.

 

I still support the use of Rosetta Stone for pre-high school years or as a supplement for those who like puzzles. I think it can give a foundation for future understanding if the student is engaged and likes the format. I know there are some who can't stand it, so for them it wouldn't be worthwhile. Best to do a trial run.

 

About computer problems, the RAM issue is one that I have had problems with for other computer programs, not just RS. You can have the borderline amount of RAM and it will work at first, then crash. It can be quite frustrating.

 

I think there are a fair number of homeschoolers in Switzerland using RS and they seem to have good results - though I haven't done any study. It keeps being promoted among themselves.

 

For high school though, I would use a more demanding program, with a live teacher if possible.

 

Joan

 

 

 

[Sevilla]

The SATII foreign language tests are incredibly difficult. I was the top foreign language student at my high school, I tested out of 3 semesters of foreign language in college and went straight to 300 level courses for that major track, and I completely bombed the SATII it was so difficult I couldn't finish reading the passage or understand the questions. I wouldn't even bother taking it, personally.

[Sevilla]

It sounds more impressive than it is. :lol:

 

It mostly comes down to readings ABOUT those stuff + chronologically organized excerpts from literature, with several full works in the last year or two.

 

My point was, the program is ambitious. I am NOT claiming everyone should adopt this particular approach for foreign language studies, just throwing some food for thought by showing some of the stuff which ARE out there, and some possible approaches for foreign language studies which are a lot more demanding than the contents of RS.

I agree with the recommendations to move into lit/history as you get into the final years of the program. My foreign language skills grew by leaps and bounds once I started having to read longer passages and interact with stories/characters/dialogue that weren't 'forced' like in regular grammar textbooks but rather were pieces of important literature. I didn't get to do that until college 300-400 levels and those were my favorite classes in that major. IMO language is meaningless if not connected to history/literature/culture and that's why connecting the two is so valuable. (Easier said than done, I know).

[Gwen in VA]

Some students do do well on the foreign language SAT2's. Good scores are possible.

 

If your student is interested in taking a foreign language SAT2 or needs to take one for college admissions --

 

1) Make sure your program is really rigorous. Like math curricula and history curricula, foreign language curricula vary wildly in rigor.

 

2) Have your child work through at least one and possibly more prep books. Preparation for those College Board tests does pay off!

 

Story -- a friend of mine had her son take Spanish 1 through OSU. He then entered public school and took Spanish 2. The Spanish 2 was 100% review of material he covered in OSU's Spanish 1. He then took the public school's Spanish 3, and recently he has finally hit some material that he hadn't seen in OSU's Spanish 1. The difficulty level of classes and curricula varies WIDELY!

[lakerks]

First of all, to the OP: I'm so sorry - how frustrating to put a lot of time, effort, and money into something and then be disappointed by the results.

 

I'll share what I've noticed about RS. We bought the five-year bundle French; ds is currently nearing the end of level one. I took four or five years of French in high school and one semester of conversational French in college, and I view foreign language as a fun (and handy) decoding game to be able to play.

 

I'm not sorry I bought RS, but I definitely see the need to supplement, and I would advise other users to do so as well. Why? Basically, I just feel like you can't "trust" that because the student scores well on the RS reviews, quizzes, and tests, he or she is necessarily learning all that needs to be learned. For example, let's say we're viewing a screen with four pictures of people smelling flowers (good), smelling socks (bad), tasting milk (bad), and tasting bread (good). Supposedly, if you can match the statements with the pictures, then you understand, right? The problem is that there are plenty of other "clues" involved that would help you to get the answer right even if you didn't really understand whatever is you're supposed to understand. I'll explain further. If the sentence is "The socks smell bad," you could correctly match it to its picture just because you recognized only the word for socks. They could make it "harder" (and more valid) by having stronger distractors, i.e. all four pictures should have a man (not a girl, a baby, and a family); all four pictures should be about socks (not flowers and milk and bread). Doing so would make it a truer evaluation of the concept bad/good. But it would also make it harder to catch on during the presentation phase.

 

Having said all that, I still like the immersion method, and I'm sure the "native speakers" pronounce better than I do. But, yeah, I picked up a couple of texts at a used sale and will work them in.

 

I also want to start a little French club with other families. We could get together for conversation and take turns presenting on various topics related to French culture.

[Ester Maria]

The SATII foreign language tests are incredibly difficult.

I cannot comment for Italian and French, as with the former I have the native speaker bias and, because of that, with the latter I have too much of a "discount" to be able to assess it objectively, but some time ago I reviewed the Hebrew sample and had my girls take it, and I honestly thought it was perfectly on the track.

 

Do not get me wrong - I generally do not believe that one can "assess" one's knowledge of a foreign language this way (without considerable written and spoken production), and I generally loathe this type of multiple choice tests which rarely "prove" anything (as standardized tests in general), but here, for once, I thought they did a pretty good job, at least in estimating what is supposed to be known, and what not. One of my kids is not even what I would call "particularly good at Hebrew", and had that sample been an actual SATII test, she would have passed it. Now, to be fair, she did have more opportunities than your average kid to use Hebrew over the years, but then again, she is only 13 and could care less about it, so I suppose it "evens out", i.e. by 18, somebody without her opportunities, but with more interest and zeal and solid high school knowledge would be in pretty much the same situation and thus be able to pass. There were a few questions I would consider quite tricky, but there were also questions I would consider very basic (as in, "Hebrew I" type of questions), and the questions were voweled (frankly, if the test were up to me, they would not be voweled). So my impression, at least for Hebrew, was that the test was very passable, actually.

 

I am not sure how different the tests for different languages are, though. They are not "supposed" to be on a significantly higher or a significantly lower level, but that is a hard balance to keep up with so diverse languages that they offer.

IMO language is meaningless if not connected to history/literature/culture and that's why connecting the two is so valuable. (Easier said than done, I know).

Absolutely, I agree. The point is, in a way, twofold: you want to learn the language itself, but you also want to use that language as means to learn about the culture "carrying" it, which then again also reinforces the first goal. It can be done if approached in small, digestible chunks, but I also recognize it is very hard to accomplish that outside of the institution or expert oversight and help. Foreign languages are one of the trickiest areas to homeschool, because of that, if you yourself are not rock solid in what you teach. They can be self-taught to an extent, like everything else, but it is difficult to make up for spoken practice or even to check one's written production (often there are hiding little mistakes which one is not even aware of, like in music, where you often do not hear your mistakes unless they are pointed out to you by somebody who does hear them), so such ambitious goals are often not going to work if the whole process is not guided by somebody who knows the language, knows which works and passages to pick when, what would reinforce a particular grammatical content, etc.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

It sounds more impressive than it is. :lol:

 

It mostly comes down to readings ABOUT those stuff + chronologically organized excerpts from literature, with several full works in the last year or two.

 

My point was, the program is ambitious. I am NOT claiming everyone should adopt this particular approach for foreign language studies, just throwing some food for thought by showing some of the stuff which ARE out there, and some possible approaches for foreign language studies which are a lot more demanding than the contents of RS.

 

It's worth remembering that the goals you listed are far advanced from most US language courses in schools too (courses taught by either degreed language instructors who have mastered the language or by native speakers).

 

My 3rd year high school French class struggled through reading The Little Prince and rarely read even newspaper articles. There was almost no attempt to comprehend spoken French at speed by native speakers (ex. news reports). Even my college level German courses (taken after 3 years of high school German and a three month exchange in Germany) were plodding with few lengthy texts and little spoken German apart from speaking with the instructors.

 

I did finally have an example of what language tutoring could be, when we had a private tutor before moving to Germany. She used a huge variety of materials and we were with her for three hours a day. But did we ever learn German.

 

FWIW, I think that one of the problems is that there is no one product that is going to teach you a language. To expect that RS is going to do this (or Tell Me More, or Learnables or ANY other one product) is foolhardy. Our tutor had us using two different grammar books, Schau ins Land (audio with a topical magazine), recordings of radio news pieces (traffic, weather, parking restrictions, short news items), video clips, feature films (My but I hate the movie Das Boot), dialogues from several different books, grammar exercises she'd written up, pages from visual dictionaries where we had to name every item on the page (mostly of military equipment - great for dh, less useful for my life visiting the grocer), and many articles from Der Spiegel. I imagine that the courses Ester Maria listed would also use a wide spectrum of materials to accomplish the language familiarity needed to tackle the upper level texts listed.

 

I've used RS with my kids. Not as the sole language instruction, but as one piece of the puzzle. Our success has varied depending on our diligence, exposure to native speakers, my previous background with the language or how much the language differed from English. (In other words, our experience with it was totally different with Japanese (where most of the categories above fell short) than with German (where we were immersed all the time and I have a good grounding in it).

 

If RS fits in your language puzzle, go for it. But go in with eyes open. A student is not going to come out the other side "knowing" a language. But for that matter, most first year college language students don't "know" a language either. But it is probably worth asking if the cost of RS would get you a good private tutor or a set of books designed to teach non native speakers of the language, or an online course, or an immersion camp...

 

RS was a great choice for us for German. But I wish that I'd used the money I spent on RS to hire a private tutor while we lived in Japan. Not dogging the language issue while we were there is one of my main regrets from that tour.

[cathmom]

That's true, Sebastian! There is NO curriculum that will teach you a language from zero to fluency.

[Phoatogirl]

What is a good workbook to supplement Spanish? I seen the Spanish Now workbook by Barron's at resale stores, but there is no answer key. Seton homestudy uses this workbook, and includes their answer key. Is this a good workbook to use with the Seton key, or is it just the same to buy it new with the publishes key......or is there something better?

 

We are using RS, and I think we will try the Pimsleur cd's also.

[Julie in MN]

What is a good workbook to supplement Spanish? I seen the Spanish Now workbook by Barron's at resale stores, but there is no answer key. Seton homestudy uses this workbook, and includes their answer key. Is this a good workbook to use with the Seton key, or is it just the same to buy it new with the publishes key......or is there something better?

 

We are using RS, and I think we will try the Pimsleur cd's also.

 

When my dd did French II at home, she used a Barron's workbook with the answer key in the back of the book. It was called "The Easy Way" but I think now it's called "E-Z." Try looking at those.

 

She listened to Pimsleur, too. There was a post maybe last summer from someone having success with that. It's just a listening program, so just one component of Rosetta, but as with anything consistency and enthusiasm are most important, IMHO.

 

Julie

[WillsMominMO]

I see most people talking about using RS with high school aged children. I was considerring getting the Spanish (Latin) for my 10 year old son. We would be counting it towards school hours but learning it in hopes of a mission trip to Peru. Anybody think it would be effective for this?

[Kareni]

I see most people talking about using RS with high school aged children. I was considering getting the Spanish (Latin) for my 10 year old son. We would be counting it towards school hours but learning it in hopes of a mission trip to Peru. Anybody think it would be effective for this?

 

 

I've no firsthand experience with Rosetta Stone other than to say that we could never get it to work on our computer. My daughter used the Pimsleur Italian CDs before a short trip to Italy. She found them very helpful. (They are geared to the adult traveler thus she learned to order wine and beer!) Perhaps your library has Pimsleur Spanish.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[calandalsmom]

All I know is that my kiddo told me "the cat runs" in german after an hour with the program and his grammar and form was correct and his accent not half bad.;) My 13 yr old, who is doing it for credit, will also do all the worksheets which are grammar.

 

I took 5 yrs of high school french in the normal grammar heavy way and went to Switzerland as an exchange student and landed in a German speaking canton. My french was completely useless both in the classroom and out bc I couldnt speak at all. The french teacher at my school was completely horrified at my accent and ability. I was humbled.

 

But in 4 months I was well able to get myself around in german with many compliments on my progress.

 

Im a fan of immersion. Grammar can be learnt later with a book.

 

Our mic didnt seem to be picking up the kids' voices this week. RS sent a new one immediately.

Edited May 7, 2011 by calandalsmom