Michelle Duggar is expecting # 18

[Quiver0f10]

And yes many women get their cycles back as soon as 6 weeks from birth. From my understanding she nurses up until about a year. That is a lot longer than many other women I know. But, I have never heard her in public or private say that she stops nursing in order to have more children.

 

Yes, this is what I have heard too. The rumor about her weaning has been going around for a while.

 

I have gotten pregnant while nursing, twice. It does happen.

[Just Me]

 

 

I've also seen a family have 5 children, the last 3 deaf and blind, and two have recently died (at the ages of 18 and 21) due to heart complications that go along with their condition. They kept having them until the 5th because they felt it was sinful not to. Then, they stopped. Then they really felt horrible.

 

Whatever else may be said, very likely Michelle Duggar probably thinks anyone who tries to limit their procreative abilities is beneath her in terms of trust in God.

 

 

 

Amy

 

I am not sure I understand why this family would feel awful? Could you clarify for me? Thanks! :001_smile:

 

Also, I really don't get the feeling that Michelle Duggar looks down on anyone for their choices. I think that the two of them realize that this is a choice that they made. I don't see how he could have been elected for public office if he were preaching a "quiverfull" theology. JMHO

[Elisabeth in IL]

 

I don't know why I am defending her, because as I have said I don't know her, buuuut I keep hearing the weaning thing and I have never actually read or saw that anywhere. There are plenty of woman who get thier cycle back while breastfeeding.

I did like clockwork. My cycle returned at 5 1/2 months with each of my 3 boys. I nursed each of them until they were one year old.

[Kelli in TN]

 

 

 

Whatever else may be said, very likely Michelle Duggar probably thinks anyone who tries to limit their procreative abilities is beneath her in terms of trust in God.

 

 

 

In all fairness, she does not come across this way in interviews. Of course an interview is not the same as what one might feel in everyday life. But she does come across as very humble and geniune in interviews.

[Guest Amy in MS]

Hi Michelle,

 

Oh, I'm sorry I didn't make it clear.

 

The family who had 2 healthy children and then 3 deaf/blind/mentally delayed children felt awful that they decided to stop having children. According to QF, God is in total control and if you quit having children for any reason, you don't trust God. They felt they couldn't deal with any more seriously handicapped children, but their beliefs said that if they truly couldn't handle anymore that God wouldn't give them anymore. But, instead of trusting that, they chose not to have more children and one was sterilized. This is sinful according to QF theology. They suffered guilt for years because they believed they were doing a bad thing by cutting off the possibility of not having any more children.

 

Anything that you do to limit the number, spacing, of children is to not trust God, according to QF. One of the founders of the QF movement had to have a hysterectormy due to medical issues (she had 11 children, I think) and believed that she would die on the operating table, because she had cut off her womb from having children. (She lived. I'll try to find the article for you if you want it. I have to go take care of my paltry handful of 4 children right now) :)

Even actions taken to produce children can be viewed as sinful (clomid, AI etc.) is considered not trusting God.

 

QF helped me better understand the difference between religion and reality. QF-ers say that God is in control and will provide, despite our weaknesses and frailities. I daresay that's so, but perhaps that's not always all it takes. I wonder what they would say to starving mothers of 10 children who have become pregnant with more only to watch their children starve to death? I wonder what they say to Andrea Yeats?

 

Why would you think that Mr. Dugger wouldn't be elected if he espoused QF theology? Obviously he does, that's basic fact if you'll check their site and read about their beliefs. Conservative Evangelicals get elected all of the time, and they believe anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus is going to hell. That doesn't keep them from getting elected. Why should QF?

 

Amy

[Teddi]

Amen, Sister!

 

but I also believe it is sad that our country has come to the point that we dont welcome all the children the Lord chooses to give us.

 

[Guest Shanna]

 

Whatever else may be said, very likely Michelle Duggar probably thinks anyone who tries to limit their procreative abilities is beneath her in terms of trust in God.

 

I can promise she would not feel or treat you that way.

[M&M]

Still the fact that she weans early does bother me. It's one thing to wean because you have to for medical reasons or whatever, but just to get pregnant again?

 

 

She said that her cycles return early. I do not think that she weans early this is just a nasty rumor. There are some really nasty things going around about the Duggars and it is sad.

 

I happen to have 5 dc and my cycles return after 3 months and I am still nursing my 2yo attachment parenting style.

[Aubrey]

Whatever else may be said, very likely Michelle Duggar probably thinks anyone who tries to limit their procreative abilities is beneath her in terms of trust in God.

 

. . .

 

knowing how they feel about nonQF, it's just too uncomfortable. (Of course, they would probably say I'm being convicted about my sin.) <grin>

 

Welllll....but isn't this like saying that hs'ers probably think anyone who sends their dc to PS is beneath them? I think that's one of the hard things about choosing a less popular path in life--people *assume* that the chooser means this as a judgment against them.

 

I don't know much about the Duggers. I think 18 kids is pretty nuts. But...I guess I try to...as much as possible, not assume people's motives. No, that's not true. I assume people's motives all the time. But I at least try to second-guess those assumptions! ;)

[Just Me]

Hi Michelle,

 

Oh, I'm sorry I didn't make it clear.

 

The family who had 2 healthy children and then 3 deaf/blind/mentally delayed children felt awful that they decided to stop having children. According to QF, God is in total control and if you quit having children for any reason, you don't trust God. They felt they couldn't deal with any more seriously handicapped children, but their beliefs said that if they truly couldn't handle anymore that God wouldn't give them anymore. But, instead of trusting that, they chose not to have more children and one was sterilized. This is sinful according to QF theology. They suffered guilt for years because they believed they were doing a bad thing by cutting off the possibility of not having any more children.

 

Anything that you do to limit the number, spacing, of children is to not trust God, according to QF. One of the founders of the QF movement had to have a hysterectormy due to medical issues (she had 11 children, I think) and believed that she would die on the operating table, because she had cut off her womb from having children. (She lived. I'll try to find the article for you if you want it. I have to go take care of my paltry handful of 4 children right now) :)

 

 

Why would you think that Mr. Dugger wouldn't be elected if he espoused QF theology? Obviously he does, that's basic fact if you'll check their site and read about their beliefs. Conservative Evangelicals get elected all of the time, and they believe anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus is going to hell. That doesn't keep them from getting elected. Why should QF?

 

Amy

 

Amy,

Thanks so much for clearing this up for me. I thought you were saying that the family wished they hadn't had so many children. I am so glad to know I was wrong.

 

As for the dad's QF beliefs and running for office, I meant that I don't think that he made a big deal of it in the election, although would defend it if asked. Kind of like Mike Huckabee in my mind. I hope this makes sense! :001_rolleyes:

 

Thanks again!!

[sweetbaby]

That's wonderful! She is truly blessed.:)

[*anj*]

 

I also agree that QF can be made into a religion but I also believe it is sad that our country has come to the point that we don't welcome all the children the Lord chooses to give us.

 

 

But Shanna...

(and I don't want to be offensive in any way, this is just something that popped into my mind)

Is it possible that the same way the Lord leaves other decisions up to us and our own conscience and our own free will, He does so with this? Is it possible that He allows natural consequences to occur when certain acts of nature are in place?

(***Important: I do NOT believe that children are consequences in the negative sense. I am using this definition: "something produced by a cause or necessarily following from a set of conditions" which I found here.***)

If you cut me, will I not bleed?

If you tickle me, do I not laugh?

If I take part in a certain activity during my fertile time, will I not conceive?

 

I totally understand trusting the Lord for our sustenance and safety and so forth, but I also know that He gives us the ability...actually the privilege...of making choices for ourselves.

And I do believe that life is sacred and precious. But I don't think that a couple's choice to stop reproducing means that they don't welcome children that the Lord might give. I think it means that they've reached a point where they feel comfortable stopping.

 

I don't see a place in the Bible that tells us that we need to just keep having as many babies as we physically can. I honestly can't see that. First, I don't think that you can create an entire doctrine based on one metaphor in a Psalm. Secondly, actual quivers have historically come in many different sizes, often according to the hunter's specific needs. So is it possible that one person's quiver is full with only two arrows? How about my four? Do we need to have a minimum of 8 to make sure it's good and full?

 

I don't mean to just throw all of this at one person. These are thoughts that have been running through my mind for awhile now, especially as I meet people who are committed to having larger than average families.

 

I think it's a complicated issue, and one that isn't easily resolved.

I just wish that people could have larger families simply because they love children and want more of them instead of having larger families because they somehow think that God is telling them how many to have.

[3littlekeets]

I mean this in all sincerity: Am I the only one who doesn't see her as a "mother" to all the children? It seems like she births them, then hands them off to the other children to raise. I'm not sure that counts as parenting. I tuck each of my kids in each night, wake them up in the morning, and value (as do they) our private time together. For me, mothering is about bonding, not about populating. And, I truly don't understand the "God wants me to have more babies" if I get pregnant any more than "God wants me to die if I get cancer." We can intervene before pregnancy, and during cancer (some before with not-smoking etc.).

 

I do understand most people here think it is a blessing, so I'm trying to figure it out.

 

Thanks.

[Kelli in TN]

I can promise she would not feel or treat you that way.

 

Shanna, this is off topic in a big way, but I have to tell you that everytime I see your avatar I wish *I* could have another baby.

 

What an absolute cutie pie.

 

Okay, back to the conversation everyone!!:001_smile:

[JennifersLost]

I have differing thoughts about the Duggars and the quiverfull movement. On the one hand I believe that the earth's population should return to about 1 billion people. On the other hand, I think that history shows when you women in an area get equal rights and access to birth control, the birth rate automatically decreases (as it is in the west).

 

Therefore, I think it's way more important that women in Africa, Asia and South America get equal rights and access to birth control, than it is for anyone to try to dissuade the Duggars not to have more kids. For every family like the Duggars in America there are plenty of families only having one child.

 

I don't like that there is a "movement", though, encouraging people not to make their own decisions about how many children to have based on their economic situation, their own characters and desires, and their parenting abilities.

 

Lack of money and lack of prospects is what causes most of the strife in this world.

[TravelingChris]

I have three and won't give birth to anymore. My youngest is 11 1/2 and I owe it to my current children to be there for their growing up. I couldn't have anymore without risking my life and my baby's, so no more. I am fine with that. I am fine with my friends who have many (either naturally or through both birth and adoption). I am fine with my friends who have few or none or aren't even married. Since I see a number of instances in the Bible where the figures had few children as well as people who had many, I don't really see either as really being Godly. It is how we live not how many kids we have. When I was growing up, there were kids from large families where the parents were great and others that came from ignorant, lazy parents who gave birth and not much else. The Duggars seem like fine people but we prefer our lifestyle with less regimentation and more individuality. I can understand the logistics and expense that require them to have all children learn piano and violin but I enjoy that mine were able to learn what they wanted since there are only three. There are blessings in all types of families as long as the families are loving and nurturing. My kids missed out on having ready made sports teams at home. Theirs don't.

[Melinda in VT]

But Shanna...

(and I don't want to be offensive in any way, this is just something that popped into my mind)

Is it possible that the same way the Lord leaves other decisions up to us and our own conscience and our own free will, He does so with this? Is it possible that He allows natural consequences to occur when certain acts of nature are in place?

(***Important: I do NOT believe that children are consequences in the negative sense. I am using this definition: "something produced by a cause or necessarily following from a set of conditions" which I found here.***)

If you cut me, will I not bleed?

If you tickle me, do I not laugh?

If I take part in a certain activity during my fertile time, will I not conceive?

 

I totally understand trusting the Lord for our sustenance and safety and so forth, but I also know that He gives us the ability...actually the privilege...of making choices for ourselves.

And I do believe that life is sacred and precious. But I don't think that a couple's choice to stop reproducing means that they don't welcome children that the Lord might give. I think it means that they've reached a point where they feel comfortable stopping.

 

I don't see a place in the Bible that tells us that we need to just keep having as many babies as we physically can. I honestly can't see that. First, I don't think that you can create an entire doctrine based on one metaphor in a Psalm. Secondly, actual quivers have historically come in many different sizes, often according to the hunter's specific needs. So is it possible that one person's quiver is full with only two arrows? How about my four? Do we need to have a minimum of 8 to make sure it's good and full?

 

I don't mean to just throw all of this at one person. These are thoughts that have been running through my mind for awhile now, especially as I meet people who are committed to having larger than average families.

 

I think it's a complicated issue, and one that isn't easily resolved.

I just wish that people could have larger families simply because they love children and want more of them instead of having larger families because they somehow think that God is telling them how many to have.

 

:iagree:

[Rebecca in GA]

I have three and won't give birth to anymore. My youngest is 11 1/2 and I owe it to my current children to be there for their growing up. I couldn't have anymore without risking my life and my baby's, so no more. I am fine with that. I am fine with my friends who have many (either naturally or through both birth and adoption). I am fine with my friends who have few or none or aren't even married. Since I see a number of instances in the Bible where the figures had few children as well as people who had many, I don't really see either as really being Godly. It is how we live not how many kids we have. When I was growing up, there were kids from large families where the parents were great and others that came from ignorant, lazy parents who gave birth and not much else. The Duggars seem like fine people but we prefer our lifestyle with less regimentation and more individuality. I can understand the logistics and expense that require them to have all children learn piano and violin but I enjoy that mine were able to learn what they wanted since there are only three. There are blessings in all types of families as long as the families are loving and nurturing. My kids missed out on having ready made sports teams at home. Theirs don't.

 

Yes, yes, and YES!!!

[Guest Amy in MS]

Secondly, actual quivers have historically come in many different sizes, often according to the hunter's specific needs. So is it possible that one person's quiver is full with only two arrows? How about my four? Do we need to have a minimum of 8 to make sure it's good and full?

 

 

 

The typical position is that only God knows how full your quiver should be. Your quiver is as big as God says it is. We trust him to fill the quiver. (Or, not "we" :) I mean QF folks)

 

If you're trusting God with your quiver, you take as many blessings as you'll get.

 

Amy

[Guest Amy in MS]

And, I truly don't understand the "God wants me to have more babies" if I get pregnant any more than "God wants me to die if I get cancer." We can intervene before pregnancy, and during cancer (some before with not-smoking etc.).

 

I do understand most people here think it is a blessing, so I'm trying to figure it out.

 

Thanks.

 

Well, when I was QF-considering I was taught basically that "cancer is bad. Babies are good." :) We can try to fix cancer because it's not what God wants. We shouldn't stop having babies because babies are good and He wants them. The more babies, the more blessings you're getting. If you're having more babies, God's rewarding you more. "Children are a reward." (I can't remember where that's located, but that's basically the crux of QF, I believe).

 

We shouldn't cut of blessings. Would we turn down money if God gave it to us? Would we turn down a house, land, food? Then why would we turn down babies?

 

People who turn down babies don't trust God enough to believe He will help them raise them, feed them, tend to them, etc. It's a sign of unbelief.

 

I am interested to hear with the QF friends here think. I don't mean to monopolize, I'd just like to see if I'm still in sync with the idea.

 

Amy

[oceandaughter]

Ok, thanks for clearing up the nursing thing for me, then. I was confused and thinking it was part of the Quiverfull mentality. There is a secular version of Quiverful philosophy, too. I forgot what it was called though.

 

I didn't mean to critisize with the breastfeeding comment.

 

I have rough pregnancies it seems. Baby turns out fine, but it's a huge toll on myself and my family so this is it for me. However, I am sure going to adopt and I would just love to have ten or more kids. (So far only have dh talked into going for six. ;) )

 

So it is different than just not believing in birth control like Catholic families. Because with the Quiverfull ideas you don't even use natural family planning, like just always trying to get pregnant, right?

 

Thanks for clearing all this up.

 

Seems like with any philosophy there are close and open minded folks.

 

Jo

[3littlekeets]

Well, when I was QF-considering I was taught basically that "cancer is bad. Babies are good." :) We can try to fix cancer because it's not what God wants. We shouldn't stop having babies because babies are good and He wants them. The more babies, the more blessings you're getting. If you're having more babies, God's rewarding you more. "Children are a reward." (I can't remember where that's located, but that's basically the crux of QF, I believe).

 

We shouldn't cut of blessings. Would we turn down money if God gave it to us? Would we turn down a house, land, food? Then why would we turn down babies?

 

People who turn down babies don't trust God enough to believe He will help them raise them, feed them, tend to them, etc. It's a sign of unbelief.

 

I am interested to hear with the QF friends here think. I don't mean to monopolize, I'd just like to see if I'm still in sync with the idea.

 

Amy

 

Okay, that makes some sense to me. Thank you.

 

But, is it "her" raising them, really? Is allowing the other kids to take care of them part of the same philosophy? I'm just so hands on, I have a difficult time understanding that part, too. Thanks...I am trying to learn!

[nmoira]

 

We can try to fix cancer because it's not what God wants.

How do you know that with certainty? I frequently hear that God wants this or doesn't want that (I'm not talking specifically about this thread), but I usually don't understand on what basis these often conflicting statements are made.

[nancypants]

How many people here want others' opinions on how many children they should have and why? How many here try not to concern themselves with how many children other people choose to have, provided they are caring for them?

 

Just curious if I'm the only one who likes it when people mind their own business in this regard? I can't stand it when people think the world needs to hear their opinions not only with regards to my fertility, but pretty much my sex life, without my permission so I really try to only ever let my opinions "get in the way" concerning other people's "quiver" choices when there are children truly suffering because of parents' decisions (ie. not clothed or fed properly, which I likely wouldn't know without being in close proximity, or looked after by a responsible person -- be that a parent, older sibling, Grandparent or someone they pay, etc.).

 

It's no one else's business how few or many children I have. So why (again, unless there is neglect involved) should I make it my business to tell others that they are "crazy" or something for how many they have chosen to have, be that 1 or 21? While I don't agree with their "theology" of family planning, how they grow their family is plain and simple, not my business.

 

:spam: And no, this comment is not spam. I just really wanted to use that emoticon. It's so dang cute. :tongue_smilie:

[Kelli in TN]

How many people here want others' opinions on how many children they should have and why? How many here try not to concern themselves with how many children other people choose to have, provided they are caring for them?

 

Just curious if I'm the only one who likes it when people mind their own business in this regard? I can't stand it when people think the world needs to hear their opinions not only with regards to my fertility, but pretty much my sex life, without my permission so I really try to only ever let my opinions "get in the way" concerning other people's "quiver" choices when there are children truly suffering because of parents' decisions (ie. not clothed or fed properly, which I likely wouldn't know without being in close proximity, or looked after by a responsible person -- be that a parent, older sibling, Grandparent or someone they pay, etc.).

 

It's no one else's business how few or many children I have. So why (again, unless there is neglect involved) should I make it my business to tell others that they are "crazy" or something for how many they have chosen to have, be that 1 or 21? While I don't agree with their "theology" of family planning, how they grow their family is plain and simple, not my business.

 

:spam: And no, this comment is not spam. I just really wanted to use that emoticon. It's so dang cute. :tongue_smilie:

 

But Nancy, when I turn on my television and watch you and your family live your lives, then you have invited everyone with cable to watch and give their opinion. Nobody forces a family to live on TLC, or Discovery channel.

 

I don't go around giving my opinion about anyone's singing ability, unless they put themselves on American Idol, then I figure they are fair game.

[nancypants]

But Nancy, when I turn on my television and watch you and your family live your lives, then you have invited everyone with cable to watch and give their opinion. Nobody forces a family to live on TLC, or Discovery channel.

 

I don't go around giving my opinion about anyone's singing ability, unless they put themselves on American Idol, then I figure they are fair game.

 

Hee hee! I knew someone was going to say that! LOL

 

True. Sort of. Their show is about how a big family lives and operates not whether or not people should have scads of children. Don't get me wrong... they had to know that they would be opening themselves up to criticism for their choices. I'm sure they are quite used to it, to be sure. (That does not make it right does it?) But really, "we" are not just talking about the Duggars anymore, but people who have a lot of children in general.

[Kelli in TN]

Hee hee! I knew someone was going to say that! LOL

 

True. Sort of. Their show is about how a big family lives and operates not whether or not people should have scads of children. Don't get me wrong... they had to know that they would be opening themselves up to criticism for their choices. I'm sure they are quite used to it, to be sure. (That does not make it right does it?) But really, "we" are not just talking about the Duggars anymore, but people who have a lot of children in general.

 

I am not. There is a local family that has 12. They are a well respected, Christian homeschooling family. They are not at all odd. I admire them greatly.

 

So, no, I am talking about a family on TV. Once you put yourself on TV you are fair game.

[LucyMcGillicuddy]

So is it possible that one person's quiver is full with only two arrows? How about my four? Do we need to have a minimum of 8 to make sure it's good and full?

 

I like to think that everyone's quiver is a different size. I know of a family that has "only" three children. They have said themselves that they have let God decide the number and timing of their children. They don't believe that they will have any more since their youngest is 12 but they are not closed off to the idea of more children.

 

Bonnie

mother of 3 :)

[nancypants]

I am not. There is a local family that has 12. They are a well respected, Christian homeschooling family. They are not at all odd. I admire them greatly.

 

So, no, I am talking about a family on TV. Once you put yourself on TV you are fair game.

 

(my only problem is that I cannot remember your opinion about the Duggars. LOL) I have one opinion of them that I would not have had I never seen them (and only heard of them)... I cannot stand her hair! :lol: Other than that I chalk it all up to "different strokes for different folks."

 

I totally get the, "I could never do that... nor do I want to!" posts... not talking about that. But more about finding fault with people for having a ton of kids, especially when the family runs smoothly, obviously care about each other, are well fed... sure I find it bizarre that they all wear matching clothes. I'm not saying I agree with them or "get it" all myself... just why waste energy criticizing people who love and care for their children when goodness... there are plenty of people who we could legitimately criticize because of how poorly cared for their children are... or how about forego criticism and just think on how we can help children in circumstances like that. Kwim?

 

I just think there are way worse things to do to a child than to raise them in a humongous (loving) family (even if they are a bit "weird" by most standards... though I bet they are very nice).

 

I don't know... I guess I sort of compare my feelings on this to my feelings on how people speculate about all sorts of things if a celebrity so much as goes out and buys milk and eggs at a regular grocery store. :lol: Sure, they live public lives but does that make every minute iota of their existence "up for grabs?" In my opinion, it doesn't. But clearly there are many who disagree with me... why on earth would People Magazine and Enquirer sell so many copies? LOL :tongue_smilie:

[Guest Shanna]

anj and anyone else...

 

I dont want you to think that I am ignoring your questions and thoughts. But, I just brought my dad in from the airport and do not have time to respond in the manner you deserve. I will come back later this evening or tomorrow and answer your questions.

[RebeccaC]

My pastor and his wife were Qiverfull had 7 kidlets. Their only dd second born child, said no way would she be full quiver and views her parents beliefs as legalistic. She had two kids and stopped there mostly due to high risk pgs but due also in great part to what she saw FQ do to her mom and the environment she grew up in.

 

The Duggar's sort of look like a nice family but the proof will be in the pudding and if there are any Mommy Dearest type books written when some of the 18 kids are adults. It will be interesting to see how many of their kids practice FQ. I have found few second generation FQ's. That written I am sure that someone on the board knows some :001_huh: It is just my experience that not many of the kids are full gusto about FQ when they grow up and begin to have kids. None of my pastors kids are. He has 3 married right now and they are all out spoken about not being FQ.

 

I am the oldest of 8 children and I can tell y'all that not everyone should have a passel of kids. It is true that God won't give us more than we can bear but He also won't stop us from taking on more than we can bear. That's the thing about free will if ya want it He won't stop you and that goes for putting more on your plate than you can eat..... or in this case parent..... :001_smile:

 

I personally think the tater tot meal is questionable nutrition wise and find the whole thing to be a bit odd. Great house but I really wonder how many of the Duggar kids will follow in their parents footsteps. I would wager not all of them and it will be interesting to watch how many jump the FQ ship in their 20s and 30s. Especially if they do not get the TV and other perks their folks get for being FQ.

 

Anyway this is all my 2 cents worth which may or may not be worth 2 cents;)

[Kelli in TN]

(

 

I don't know... I guess I sort of compare my feelings on this to my feelings on how people speculate about all sorts of things if a celebrity so much as goes out and buys milk and eggs at a regular grocery store. :lol: Sure, they live public lives but does that make every minute iota of their existence "up for grabs?" In my opinion, it doesn't. But clearly there are many who disagree with me... why on earth would People Magazine and Enquirer sell so many copies? LOL :tongue_smilie:

 

Sure, you are right. Unless the celeb invites the media along on their grocery shopping excursion.

 

I have never heard of the media following Michelle or Kate to the grocery store uninvited.

[Quiver0f10]

. "Children are a reward." (I can't remember where that's located, but that's basically the crux of QF, I believe).

 

 

Psa 127:3 Lo, children [are] an heritage of the LORD: [and] the fruit of the womb [is his] reward.

 

Psa 127:4 As arrows [are] in the hand of a mighty man; so [are] children of the youth.

 

Psa 127:5 Happy [is] the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.

[Guest Amy in MS]

How many people here want others' opinions on how many children they should have and why? How many here try not to concern themselves with how many children other people choose to have, provided they are caring for them?

 

Hi Nan,

 

Oh, I'm sure I don't, and I really don't think anyone is saying Mr and Mrs Duggar shouldn't have babies until she's 70, if that's what she wants. I don't know that anyone is trying to limit their family, but we can certainly disagree with the philosophy behind it, can't we? (Just as FQ people can believe I'm not trusting God because I have chosen to limit my number of children, right?)

 

I've seen a lot of families (and some close friends) come away emotionally scarred by the FQ movement and I have concerns about it. I think the more information people have, the better. They can always make their own decisions, but information helps us make wise decisions. The problem is that when we raise these admittedly fine families (Duggars and other admirable large families! Yes, I believe some of these families are wonderful, and I know some) to the role of uber-saints, it's also easy to ignore the fact that there are also many FQ women whose whose children suffer in hovels and whose bodies are harmed physically by numerous births, and the only response is, it's God's will. How many of these families have you see on TV?

 

Yes, I people should have as many babies or as few as they can afford to and raise in a good environment (this isn't a QF-belief, sadly, the mantra is "if God provides the blessing, He will provide the means to take care of it.") but I don't think anyone should be guilted into having babies.;)

 

Amy

 

PS. Quiver of 10 and Shana, and other QF ladies, I mean no disrespect, and I don't mean for any of this to disparage you, but these are simply what I have learned in my years of considering QF, reading QuiverFull, and having Quiverfull friends. If anything I have said is untrue, please feel free to point it out to me. :001_smile:

[Quiver0f10]

 

I am interested to hear with the QF friends here think. I don't mean to monopolize, I'd just like to see if I'm still in sync with the idea.

 

Amy

 

I am obviously a QFer :) We have chosen to allow the Lord to choose our family size. Yes, a huge part of being QF is trusting Him to give you a baby, but to also provide for that child too. Keep in mind that not everyone who is QF has a dozen kids.

 

As far as looking down on people who don't believe this way, I know that we personally don't. I believe being QF is between God, my DH and I. I also feel this way about home school, home birth etc. I don't expect everyone to do what I do and certainly don't look down on others who choose a different path.

[Guest Amy in MS]

How do you know that with certainty? I frequently hear that God wants this or doesn't want that (I'm not talking specifically about this thread), but I usually don't understand on what basis these often conflicting statements are made.

 

This is just what I was taught by the QF folks I knew. God is a God of healing; He does not want disease. God is a God of blessing; He wants children.

 

Amy

[Quiver0f10]

 

 

So it is different than just not believing in birth control like Catholic families. Because with the Quiverfull ideas you don't even use natural family planning, like just always trying to get pregnant, right?

 

Jo

 

Well technically you aren't trying or not for anything. You are having relations with your Dh and not worrying about whether your concieve or not; you let God do the worrying.

[Guest Amy in MS]

Hi Quiver,

Thanks for the quotes. I knew they were in there somewhere :)

 

I'll contribute more tomorrow. Thanks for your time.

 

Amy

[Quiver0f10]

Hi Nan,

 

Oh, I'm sure I don't, and I really don't think anyone is saying Mr and Mrs Duggar shouldn't have babies until she's 70, if that's what she wants. I don't know that anyone is trying to limit their family, but we can certainly disagree with the philosophy behind it, can't we? (Just as FQ people can believe I'm not trusting God because I have chosen to limit my number of children, right?)

 

I've seen a lot of families (and some close friends) come away emotionally scarred by the FQ movement and I have concerns about it. I think the more information people have, the better. They can always make their own decisions, but information helps us make wise decisions. The problem is that when we raise these admittedly fine families (Duggars and other admirable large families! Yes, I believe some of these families are wonderful, and I know some) to the role of uber-saints, it's also easy to ignore the fact that there are also many FQ women whose whose children suffer in hovels and whose bodies are harmed physically by numerous births, and the only response is, it's God's will. How many of these families have you see on TV?

 

Yes, I people should have as many babies or as few as they can afford to and raise in a good environment (this isn't a QF-belief, sadly, the mantra is "if God provides the blessing, He will provide the means to take care of it.") but I don't think anyone should be guilted into having babies.;)

 

Amy

 

PS. Quiver of 10 and Shana, and other QF ladies, I mean no disrespect, and I don't mean for any of this to disparage you, but these are simply what I have learned in my years of considering QF, reading QuiverFull, and having Quiverfull friends. If anything I have said is untrue, please feel free to point it out to me. :001_smile:

 

How many of us and I mean all of us posting here have chosen a different life than our parents? We all choose different roads and if the Lord leads those children from QF then that is what is meant to be for them. I don't expect my children to each have 10 kids (although it would be cool!). I expect them and their spouse to prayfully consider the Lord's will for their life.

 

My oldest aways said she wasn't having kids. Then it was 1, maybe 2. Now it's maybe 4 LOL. Can't have scarred her too bad.

 

It sounds like you have alot of pain/hurt from the church/area you lived in and I am sorry you went through that. :grouphug: But just as all home schoolers are not the same, neither are all of us who choose a QF life.

[KSGrace]

How in the world do they have time to even..um, you know...make that many babies?!?! I only have 2 and can barely remember what my husband looks like without clothes on. :lol:

 

 

More power to them. It's just sooo not for me.

[Guest Amy in MS]

How many of us and I mean all of us posting here have chosen a different life than our parents? We all choose different roads and if the Lord leads those children from QF then that is what is meant to be for them. I don't expect my children to each have 10 kids (although it would be cool!). I expect them and their spouse to prayfully consider the Lord's will for their life.

 

My oldest aways said she wasn't having kids. Then it was 1, maybe 2. Now it's maybe 4 LOL. Can't have scarred her too bad.

 

It sounds like you have alot of pain/hurt from the church/area you lived in and I am sorry you went through that. :grouphug: But just as all home schoolers are not the same, neither are all of us who choose a QF life.

 

No, no. I'm sorry. I don't mean to say that you've scarred your children, or anything, (but I know parents who have suffered greatly from guilt after abandonning QF) And, I haven't come from a painful church or situation or at all :) But you're very sweet.

 

More tomorrow.

Amy

[unsinkable]

:iagree:

 

There are probably people on this board who agree with her, but what I've heard about their beliefs on disciplining children from people who have attended conferences they have spoken at ("ritualized beatings" was what came to mind), I personally do not consider them parenting role models.

 

Please don't tell me that the Duggars follow that No Greater Joy/Pearls/Train Up a Child discipline model. Please I think I'll vomit. Really.

[Crissy]

Psa 127:3 Lo, children [are] an heritage of the LORD: [and] the fruit of the womb [is his] reward.

 

Psa 127:4 As arrows [are] in the hand of a mighty man; so [are] children of the youth.

 

Psa 127:5 Happy [is] the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.

 

Hey, Jean.

You know we love you. Right?

I hope you aren't feeling the need to defend your choices, and I *really* hope you aren't taking this conversation personally.

[Quiver0f10]

Hey, Jean.

You know we love you. Right?

I hope you aren't feeling the need to defend your choices, and I *really* hope you aren't taking this conversation personally.

 

Aww, thanks! I am not taking it personally, but felt the need to explain another QF point of view than the one presented. kwim?

[astrid]

Please don't tell me that the Duggars follow that No Greater Joy/Pearls/Train Up a Child discipline model. Please I think I'll vomit. Really.

 

I think I've heard that they do. Gack.

[astrid]

I mean this in all sincerity: Am I the only one who doesn't see her as a "mother" to all the children? It seems like she births them, then hands them off to the other children to raise. I'm not sure that counts as parenting.

 

Yep. I totally agree. But then what do I know? I've got a one and only. I'm not sure i"m really qualified!

[Storm Bay]

I'm just concerned for her uterus. Seriously. To me, it's not just how many kids she has but the fact she has them so close together.

 

Yes, this can be a concern at times. I used to work with a woman who was the 11th of 19 children, but the only problem her mother had was as dropped uterus. She told me that at one time doctors wanted to do a hysterectomy on her mother (her dad was an alcoholic and they didn't have much money). Had that been done, this woman would have never been born.

[Storm Bay]

Yes, this is what I have heard too. The rumor about her weaning has been going around for a while.

 

I have gotten pregnant while nursing, twice. It does happen.

 

Of course it happens! I nursed on demand with all of mine, and never introduced any food before 6 months, or formula, yet I always got my cycle back when nursing full time, as early as 4 months postpartum. It was a blessing, though, for it made certain things much more enjoyable again. And I conceived my last when I was nursing. I have a friend who didn't even know she was pregnant with her second until she could feel her second kicking because she was nursing and didn't gain weight early.

[Storm Bay]

As for names, I'm going to be a bit catty and say that I think that having 18 kids with the same initials is a bit much, IMO. However, you can't have just one different. I like the names Jasmine and Johannes (the J as a Y, though, and I do know that they have a Johanna, but JS Bach had a few Johannas and a bunch of Johanns!

[astrid]

:spam: And no, this comment is not spam. I just really wanted to use that emoticon. It's so dang cute. :tongue_smilie:

 

I KNOW! I responded to the thread on canned Spam a few days ago JUST so I could use that little guy! :-)