MFW Mamas - Will you talk with me??

[abrightmom]

Ladies,

 

I have used MFW 1st and ADV. We loved both. We are on the cusp of beginning HOD (Heart of Dakota) which is simply amazing once you hit Bigger Hearts. The plans from year to year are full, rich, thorough. There is so much meat and strength built into HOD. I imagine she is able to do this in part because there is a narrower focus age/grade wise. I LOVE what I'm seeing on paper. I am especially enamored with the writing progression, the strong literature component, the integrated drawing skills, the variety (art, history, science, Shakespeare, poetry, audio drama, spine texts, historical fiction, biographies, music, etc.). HOD IS a beautifully arranged program.....

 

BUT.....

 

I want to keep my 3 oldest kiddos together. I am about to throw in my home schooling towel over this decision (not really but boy do I feel like it these days). Using HOD means we'll be using two guides throughout the next several years. It doesn't matter so much right NOW and it won't matter when my oldest reaches high school. However, all those years in between it might matter.....reading together, science activities together, history topics lining up, etc.

 

Is there "more than meets the eye" with MFW??? I have spent countless hours with every sample, guides, resources, TWTM checklists, etc. and I have to say that in my comparisons HOD blows MFW away in richness and content. This may be appearances only and perhaps it is easier for me to "see" what HOD is offering but I can say that I have read the fine print over and over.

 

What can you tell me about the richness and depth of MFW? Is there more to it than I can see? HOD asks a lot more of my students in the way of writing, grammar (I realize MFW is more CM in its LA recs. than HOD is here so that is understandable.), depth of literature, use of primary sources, focus on biographies, etc.

 

The Book Basket does lend a richness to MFW. It was amazing with Adventures. We LOVED it and were able to maximize it because of our library system being as awesome as it is. But, I can't SEE that list. HOD is there for me to see and directs me in how to USE the excellent resources (and when to plug them in). The assignments are written out and they're excellent...the way we write with poetry, the way we're asked to think about what we're reading, the constant leading in narration (included guidance in writing narrations), etc. I remember being told to ask my students to narrate in MFW but it was easier for me to "miss that". It seems so much more explicit and integral with HOD.

 

What kinds of writing does MFW ask of the students and how much? It doesn't seem like much from the outside looking in, especially in writing across the curriculum (in science and history)? Am I missing stuff? Is there more there, in the notebooking, that just isn't evident in the samples???

 

Can someone talk me into MFW and family learning? Or, should I stay with HOD because it offers all that I want skill & content wise? I've read every thread more than once..... doesn't someone have a sign from heaven for me?:D I'm HOD one day, MFW the next.

[mama2cntrykids]

Those are all GREAT questions...I just don't have good answers for you. I'm interested in what other's think as well, so I will be watching this thread. The sad thing is, we've using MFW all the way, but I haven't been doing it to the full potential. I think I would have if it was just my oldest ds, but it's hard with my younger ds' Asperger's. Plus, MFW isn't explicit in *telling* you when to do some things (and I think I need that), so that makes it easy for me to "forget" to actually do narration and such.

 

Hmmm...now you have me wanting to check out HOD lol. Maybe I will at our convention next weekend. I hate curriculum hopping, but from what you describe, it sounds like HOD may hold your hand more, so to speak? Hmmm...

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

I do not need to be watching this thread. Just this weekend I sat DH down to help me decide between HOD and another curriculum and he chose HOD. I do not need to be hearing about MFW. I excluded it so long ago that I can't really recall why.

 

 

Walk away, Self. Just walk away.

 

 

:tongue_smilie:

[KeriJ]

Once again, you know I have these same questions. ;):)

[KeriJ]

I do not need to be watching this thread. Just this weekend I sat DH down to help me decide between HOD and another curriculum and he chose HOD. I do not need to be hearing about MFW. I excluded it so long ago that I can't really recall why.

 

 

Walk away, Self. Just walk away.

 

 

:tongue_smilie:

 

:):):)

[....]

I want to keep my 3 oldest kiddos together. I am about to throw in my home schooling towel over this decision (not really but boy do I feel like it these days).

 

This is always the real kicker for me, too. I have 4 kids under 9. They ALL need constant help. We've tried several things over the last few years and the "one-room schoolhouse" system is the only thing that seems to work for us. Take your pick...Sonlight, MFW, TOG, HOD...those types of curricula were created for people in our situation. It's near impossible to do an individual curriculum with each kid.

 

 

Is there "more than meets the eye" with MFW??? I have spent countless hours with every sample, guides, resources, TWTM checklists, etc. and I have to say that in my comparisons HOD blows MFW away in richness and content. This may be appearances only and perhaps it is easier for me to "see" what HOD is offering but I can say that I have read the fine print over and over.

 

 

You can always supplement if you feel like there's something lacking. I thought MFW K looked super-lite (that's why I chose it), but if you do all the activities/reading...it had a lot more to it.

 

 

What kinds of writing does MFW ask of the students and how much? It doesn't seem like much from the outside looking in, especially in writing across the curriculum (in science and history)? Am I missing stuff? Is there more there, in the notebooking, that just isn't evident in the samples???

 

 

Honestly, I stick with TWTM writing. We do WWE and I follow SWB's audio lectures for writing. My 9 yro is slowly starting logic stage writing. SWB's writing program just makes more sense to me than Writing Strands.

 

I just wanted to add that I think MFW appeals to certain learning personalities. I have a 6 yro who could be considered a Social Sue/Wiggly Willy. She had the best year with MFW. She finished K with more skill in reading than my oldest kids who went to public school K. She also enjoyed every one of the projects, experiments, doing the volcano, painting with vegetables, the butterfly project, etc. I actually regret not using MFW with my son when he was her age. He would've loved it.

 

Good luck with your decision!

[sassenach]

I think you should just go with HOD. You're really not going to know until you try. I've only done mfw through adventures, so there's nothing I could tell you that you don't already know. I think mfw uses PLL and WS to do the bulk of the LA instruction, so I don't think there will be explicit LA instruction the way there is in HOD. If you like what you see in HOD, then give it a year.

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

I just wanted to add that I think MFW appeals to certain learning personalities. I have a 6 yro who could be considered a Social Sue/Wiggly Willy. She had the best year with MFW. She finished K with more skill in reading than my oldest kids who went to public school K. She also enjoyed every one of the projects, experiments, doing the volcano, painting with vegetables, the butterfly project, etc. I actually regret not using MFW with my son when he was her age. He would've loved it.

 

 

 

Aw, that sounds like so much fun. I feel like we missed the MFW K boat a long time ago though.

[jer2911mom]

I think you should just go with HOD. You're really not going to know until you try. I've only done mfw through adventures, so there's nothing I could tell you that you don't already know. I think mfw uses PLL and WS to do the bulk of the LA instruction, so I don't think there will be explicit LA instruction the way there is in HOD. If you like what you see in HOD, then give it a year.

 

This is what I've concluded as far as deciding about other curricula as well. No matter how many threads you read, no one is going to be able to tell you if a curriculum will be a fit for your family or not. Instead of looking at a change as a long-term commitment, would it be more freeing to just look at it as a one-year trial? Could you try HOD for a year? What would you lose time-wise with MFW? If it doesn't work, could you go back to ECC the next year and not lose out on the full cycle for your oldest? That would give your youngers a year to mature for ECC. Then you would have real-life experience with HOD and have better grounds for a decision long-term. The material in ECC would not duplicate the HOD material, would it? HOD has a "gap" year anyway (if you start LHFHG in K), where I was thinking of adding in ECC before Preparing. I figure I've got room to try out the others I'm interested in. Does your husband have a feel on this? Sometimes they can see the decision more practically and without all the emotion. Blessings to you as you decide!

[abrightmom]

This is what I've concluded as far as deciding about other curricula as well. No matter how many threads you read, no one is going to be able to tell you if a curriculum will be a fit for your family or not. Instead of looking at a change as a long-term commitment, would it be more freeing to just look at it as a one-year trial? Could you try HOD for a year? I think so and will likely do this. Initially I'd said I would teach two guides simultaneously for two years allowing me to use Little Hearts through Preparing. What would you lose time-wise with MFW? If it doesn't work, could you go back to ECC the next year and not lose out on the full cycle for your oldest? I could still squeeze in ECC if we try HOD for a year. Funny thing is that the HOD guide I really WANT to use is Preparing. To be ready for that my oldest needs the stepping stone of Bigger. So, I have to use Bigger then Preparing. He's not quite ready for Preparing. Well, I think we could tackle Preparing with a little bit of modifying (perhaps starting it half speed and working hard on narrations before picking up a full schedule). But, if we STAY with HOD that puts him in CTC at ten years old. Frankly, I find CTC to be pretty challenging. I feel slightly concerned about pushing him too fast...it's a "between a rock and a hard place" kind of feeling. I'd MUCH rather teach Preparing ....but I fear he isn't quite ready for it. I don't want to get the wrong impression of HOD by not placing my kids correctly. That is key to success with HOD.That would give your youngers a year to mature for ECC. Then you would have real-life experience with HOD and have better grounds for a decision long-term. The material in ECC would not duplicate the HOD material, would it? No, it doesn't. HOD has a "gap" year anyway (if you start LHFHG in K), where I was thinking of adding in ECC before Preparing. I figure I've got room to try out the others I'm interested in. Does your husband have a feel on this? Yes, he does. He's easy....he likes both plans :D and since I'm so invested in the "I know what skills the kids need when" side of things and I'm the manager of the school schedule he really wants me to pick the one I want to implement. We've been very happy with MFW but we love what HOD has on the table.Sometimes they can see the decision more practically and without all the emotion. My problem is that I am over practical and my brain thinks of EVERY contingency and wants guarantees. There are NO guarantees with either plan. That's what REALLY gets me :001_smile:.Blessings to you as you decide!

 

Great questions jer2911 Mama. I know you've been pondering so many questions over the past few months as well....

 

With MFW I can team teach. I love this unifying aspect of MFW. This holds a lot of weight. I'd already begun to feel the separation in my heart as I was ready to start HOD today (which we didn't due to the indecision and struggles). I was wracking my brain thinking about how I might tweak HOD to have more common subjects with the kids. This led me back to thinking that separating may not be good after all! With MFW I'd likely use Phonics Road (which we love here). The Book Basket is a fantastic aspect of MFW. I'd pay $$ for an MFW guide just to have the BB list. It's that good. I love the idea of being involved in the main subjects for as many years as possible (reading those history spines, engaged in the science with the family) rather than reading the "key ideas" in the HOD guide without really KNOWING the content along with my kids. Sniff sniff.

 

With HOD I would have two learning groups, my oldest being solo. But, we'd have a very well integrated program that contains all of the WTM skills that I want along with the richness that is a CM education. A glorious balance with academic rigor in late elementary and beyond. HOD is a gentle start but gets crazy good by 2nd/3rd grade depending upon where the kiddo places. No PR needed with this plan. HOD is a step up in age appropriate rigor since it is targeted to a narrower age/grade range. HOD brings in some amazing elements that are not present with MFW as far as I can see...

[cbollin]

HOD is a step up in age appropriate rigor since it is targeted to a narrower age/grade range. HOD brings in some amazing elements that are not present with MFW as far as I can see.

 

What are those "amazing elements?" Maybe they are there. I'm looking at the bolded things you asked originally and wonder if that is what you mean? MFW is rich in content too. Plenty of writing in the language arts, and use of CM narrations, etc. There's lab reports and such if you want to do them (ADV had that too), notebooking picks up as each year goes along because the oldest in the family gets older. Writing Strands, outlining in SOTW if you want. history notebooking in history years, and in ECC it's just geography based with vocab, and some research stuff depending on age.

 

Much of the same kinds of "semi independent" and "independent" things in the HOD guide can be done in MFW. I looked at HOD at convention and one of my friends who loves it was showing it to me.

I kept thinking, my advanced kiddo did that using MFW, even if it didn't say every single day on it.

 

 

I'm not sure I can "talk you into it" or anything :lol: but hope that helps a tiny bit. I've found it is plenty rich in all of years. You can use text, non fiction and fiction and biographies, etc. It's not a "living books only" approach. I think in analogies so here's one: imagine a dinner sized tossed salad. You have just enough of greens, protein, veggies.... some of the bites will have a bit more of one than the other, but when you finish the whole bowl, you've had a complete meal and even have room for dessert.

 

You can try HOD for the year. Then decide. But I've been quite content with using MFW for even my advanced first born, and my very average middle gal. (youngest has autism, so, let's not count that...)

 

-crystal

[joyfulhomeschooler]

You are my "tester" lol have been waiting to see what you decide and how it works out for you. I love the looks of HOD, but we are also loving adventures.... so can't wait to see what you decide. Aftter reading this I may just try HOD tarting september.

[abrightmom]

What are those "amazing elements?" Maybe they are there. I'm looking at the bolded things you asked originally and wonder if that is what you mean? MFW is rich in content too. Plenty of writing in the language arts, and use of CM narrations, etc. There's lab reports and such if you want to do them (ADV had that too), notebooking picks up as each year goes along because the oldest in the family gets older. Writing Strands, outlining in SOTW if you want. history notebooking in history years, and in ECC it's just geography based with vocab, and some research stuff depending on age.

 

Much of the same kinds of "semi independent" and "independent" things in the HOD guide can be done in MFW. I looked at HOD at convention and one of my friends who loves it was showing it to me.

I kept thinking, my advanced kiddo did that using MFW, even if it didn't say every single day on it.

 

 

I'm not sure I can "talk you into it" or anything :lol: but hope that helps a tiny bit. I've found it is plenty rich in all of years. You can use text, non fiction and fiction and biographies, etc. It's not a "living books only" approach. I think in analogies so here's one: imagine a dinner sized tossed salad. You have just enough of greens, protein, veggies.... some of the bites will have a bit more of one than the other, but when you finish the whole bowl, you've had a complete meal and even have room for dessert.

 

You can try HOD for the year. Then decide. But I've been quite content with using MFW for even my advanced first born, and my very average middle gal. (youngest has autism, so, let's not count that...)

 

-crystal

 

Crystal,

 

What I need to see are the specifics I guess. I have a concise list of what my kid is going to do day to day, week to week, with HOD. I can see precisely what skills we are working on via the content right down to how much writing in history, in science, in the various LA elements, via dictation, copywork, etc.

 

Some of the "amazing elements" (well, they're amazing to ME :001_smile:) include a Shakespeare study (this can easily be done with MFW of course), poetry studies (this is much more than just reading poetry - I love it), use of primary sources ( I love this and appreciate that it is integrated with the studies for me), narration is scheduled rather than suggested, written narrations are guided for me, dictation and copywork are thoroughly integrated & there is a lot of it, drawing via Draw & Write Through History which includes cursive copywork, etc. I need to see more of the amazing in MFW because I think that it MUST be there. :D

 

Crystal, I couldn't figure out the science plans in Creation to the Greeks with MFW. When I compared what was on the sample schedule with what HOD is doing at the same time it was vastly different. That's what makes me wonder if I'm missing something....perhaps there is more in the introductory materials, in the science resources themselves, in the notebooking/student sheets, etc. that I can't actually SEE. All I saw for science on the CTC sample was reading a few pages out of Genesis for Kids...there must be more, right? Does the booklist give recommendations for books on inventors, scientists, etc. from the era being studied?

 

Perhaps I'm not loving the spines in CtotheG's either....I have it and I'm trying to imagine reading Streams to my kids. I love reading the Bible to them, of course. I understand why Marie chose Streams and I appreciate her reasons. . . I just *wish* it was SOTW 1 :D....

 

Is there another state study planned in MFW somewhere in the 5 year cycle (similar to what we did in Adventures but for olders)? What about memory work (besides Scripture)?

 

What does the history notebooking LOOK LIKE in those upper guides? There are no samples to look at. Do you know of a blog that might highlight some of that so I can see what my kids would be working on with maps, timelines, notebooks, lab sheets, etc.?? I need to see more I guess.

 

Where does outlining with SOTW come into play? Is it rec'd in the AG and does the MFW teacher's guide suggest doing that? What is the student outlining? The encyclopedia?

 

Does MFW ever study hymns or poetry? I LOVE the classical music component and we'd always choose that. MFW schedules great read alouds and gives a lot of flex in the schedule for adding in your own. I appreciate that a lot.

 

MFW is coming to a conference here but it isn't until the end of JUNE!!!!!! Drat. That is 2.5 months away.....we're spinning our wheels here and I really don't like the thought of spinning for another 10 weeks. But I might have to!

Edited April 12, 2011 by abrightmom

[jer2911mom]

Great questions jer2911 Mama. I know you've been pondering so many questions over the past few months as well....

 

With MFW I can team teach. I love this unifying aspect of MFW. This holds a lot of weight. I'd already begun to feel the separation in my heart as I was ready to start HOD today (which we didn't due to the indecision and struggles). I was wracking my brain thinking about how I might tweak HOD to have more common subjects with the kids. This led me back to thinking that separating may not be good after all! With MFW I'd likely use Phonics Road (which we love here). The Book Basket is a fantastic aspect of MFW. I'd pay $$ for an MFW guide just to have the BB list. It's that good. I love the idea of being involved in the main subjects for as many years as possible (reading those history spines, engaged in the science with the family) rather than reading the "key ideas" in the HOD guide without really KNOWING the content along with my kids. Sniff sniff.

 

With HOD I would have two learning groups, my oldest being solo. But, we'd have a very well integrated program that contains all of the WTM skills that I want along with the richness that is a CM education. A glorious balance with academic rigor in late elementary and beyond. HOD is a gentle start but gets crazy good by 2nd/3rd grade depending upon where the kiddo places. No PR needed with this plan. HOD is a step up in age appropriate rigor since it is targeted to a narrower age/grade range. HOD brings in some amazing elements that are not present with MFW as far as I can see...

 

If you planned on a 2-year trial period of HOD, then, so you could get to the Preparing guide, would that still leave room for you to do the MFW cycle if you decide to switch back? Would you be doing Bigger for 2nd and Preparing for 3rd? Two years would definitely give you the feel for the program and how it affects your family unity. You would also get a sense for the independent work and whether or not that is going to be an issue for you. (I have the same concerns.)

 

I would think that your kids are going to want to sit in on each others' read-alouds in HOD, so there may be more unity there than you think. And science is so light in the younger years, that doing or just being there to observe the older science would be great, in my opinion. Unless your kids are in separate rooms all day, I have a feeling there is going to be more shared interest across programs and discussion than you might think. You definitely could pick one of the bible portions and use it for the entire family. I guess what I'm saying is that HOD might not take away the family unity as much as you might think. I've been encouraged this year by the fact that my 3 year old (2 when we started) has been so involved in all the LHFHG activities. She also has enjoyed the motions and has learned a lot of the bible verses without me making any effort there with her at all. Just by being in the room she has absorbed so much and she shares a lot with my older dd. She has even enjoyed some of the math activities. I'll have her in her own program next year, but I still think there will be a lot of bonding during school time no matter what I use with each of them. Just being at home together really makes a difference.

[....]

MFW is coming to a conference here but it isn't until the end of JUNE!!!!!! Drat. That is 2.5 months away.....we're spinning our wheels here and I really don't like the thought of spinning for another 10 weeks. But I might have to!

 

You have a lot of very specific questions. What about calling MFW's customer service number? Also, they have a forum, too. It would be bad to waste 3 months of school for the convention.

[LoveBaby]

I can't help you much with the MFW/HOD decision.

 

This is a suggestion for the next few weeks while you are spinning your wheels...

 

Read "Read for the Heart" by Sarah Clarkson. It is an amazing book, similar to Honey from a Child's Heart, that has booklists, *but* it is written by a homeschooled child that *lived* living books. Her parents are Sally and Clay Clarkson - author of Educating the Wholehearted Child.

 

It has *completely* re-inspired my belief in excellent literature and reading aloud often as a means to a great education. Your children are still young! If you are doing Phonics Road and Math - let that be enough for now. Read, read, read to them. Read a story and then the next day have your children remind you what the story was about (aka...narration). Have your oldest write that memory down (or you write it and have him copy- copywork) and then illustrate it. Have your oldest read to your youngsters while you are spending some time in prayer and quiet. If you are struggling making the decision, spend some time *not* thinking about it. Let it go for a few weeks while you read to your kids, bake some cookies and go to the park.

 

Re-read some of your favorite, most inspiring homeschool books and get a vision for your homeschool. After you have let your head clear and your heart speak and have that vision - *then* look at what curricula will most help you achieve that vision.

 

---BTW...I'm living this right now, mama, so I know what you are going through!

 

Disclaimer: I am reviewing "Read for the Heart" for the TOS Crew, so I was given my copy...but my opinion would be the same, regardless! It is a really great book!

[abrightmom]

If you planned on a 2-year trial period of HOD, then, so you could get to the Preparing guide, would that still leave room for you to do the MFW cycle if you decide to switch back? Would you be doing Bigger for 2nd and Preparing for 3rd? Two years would definitely give you the feel for the program and how it affects your family unity. You would also get a sense for the independent work and whether or not that is going to be an issue for you. (I have the same concerns.)

 

I would think that your kids are going to want to sit in on each others' read-alouds in HOD, so there may be more unity there than you think. And science is so light in the younger years, that doing or just being there to observe the older science would be great, in my opinion. Unless your kids are in separate rooms all day, I have a feeling there is going to be more shared interest across programs and discussion than you might think. You definitely could pick one of the bible portions and use it for the entire family. I guess what I'm saying is that HOD might not take away the family unity as much as you might think. I've been encouraged this year by the fact that my 3 year old (2 when we started) has been so involved in all the LHFHG activities. She also has enjoyed the motions and has learned a lot of the bible verses without me making any effort there with her at all. Just by being in the room she has absorbed so much and she shares a lot with my older dd. She has even enjoyed some of the math activities. I'll have her in her own program next year, but I still think there will be a lot of bonding during school time no matter what I use with each of them. Just being at home together really makes a difference.

 

My oldest is wrapping up 2nd now...ready to start his 3rd grade work for the most part though I did NOT ask him to write enough or work hard enough on narrating. We need to step up to Preparing by doing Bigger first and I want him to start NOW if he's going to. Doing 2 years with HOD means no ECC. Not the end of the world but HIGHLY disappointing if a shift to MFW is needed. I've always wanted to enjoy ECC :D

 

Yes, I hear you on the mixing in amongst one another's work. That works in the younger years but NOT in those middle years when much of the work IS scheduled to be independent and the days are much fuller. In order for an older child in his guide to be able to do his work he has to separate from the others to work ...and vice versa. The days would become unbearably long for everybody if they're always wanting to do each other's work....then we may as well do MFW!! :lol: With the younger guides being as gentle and short as they are it is easy to mix in among one another. As they move up that freedom goes away. And combining for Bible IS an option that I'm thinking about....just need to organize it right so that we have a good flow year to year as there is a Unit study approach that Carrie works pretty hard to pull together.

 

You have a lot of very specific questions. What about calling MFW's customer service number? Also, they have a forum, too. It would be bad to waste 3 months of school for the convention.

 

Yes, that IS a good idea. Lucy is lovely and if she's still the "go to gal" then I'd love to talk with her. She helped me long ago with placement. I need to write up a list of ??s and call. Maybe she can share some samples with me...DH is working insanely late tonight so when those munchkins are quiet I'll spend the next 3 hours ruining my vision by reading on the MFW forum. Then I'll dream about it all night and wake up unrefreshed :lol:.

[abrightmom]

I can't help you much with the MFW/HOD decision.

 

This is a suggestion for the next few weeks while you are spinning your wheels...

 

Read "Read for the Heart" by Sarah Clarkson. It is an amazing book, similar to Honey from a Child's Heart, that has booklists, *but* it is written by a homeschooled child that *lived* living books. Her parents are Sally and Clay Clarkson - author of Educating the Wholehearted Child.

 

It has *completely* re-inspired my belief in excellent literature and reading aloud often as a means to a great education. Your children are still young! If you are doing Phonics Road and Math - let that be enough for now. Read, read, read to them. Read a story and then the next day have your children remind you what the story was about (aka...narration). Have your oldest write that memory down (or you write it and have him copy- copywork) and then illustrate it. Have your oldest read to your youngsters while you are spending some time in prayer and quiet. If you are struggling making the decision, spend some time *not* thinking about it. Let it go for a few weeks while you read to your kids, bake some cookies and go to the park.

 

Re-read some of your favorite, most inspiring homeschool books and get a vision for your homeschool. After you have let your head clear and your heart speak and have that vision - *then* look at what curricula will most help you achieve that vision.

 

---BTW...I'm living this right now, mama, so I know what you are going through!

 

Disclaimer: I am reviewing "Read for the Heart" for the TOS Crew, so I was given my copy...but my opinion would be the same, regardless! It is a really great book!

 

THIS is glorious counsel. I adore the Clarksons.....Thanks LoveBaby.

[....]

It has *completely* re-inspired my belief in excellent literature and reading aloud often as a means to a great education. Your children are still young! If you are doing Phonics Road and Math - let that be enough for now. Read, read, read to them.

 

I agree with you completely regarding the Read-Alouds. We have 3 Read-Alouds going right now and they're our favorite part of the day. We've been doing that since we started homeschooling. Besides MFW and other stuff, we're reading through SL Core 3.

[jer2911mom]

My oldest is wrapping up 2nd now...ready to start his 3rd grade work for the most part though I did NOT ask him to write enough or work hard enough on narrating. We need to step up to Preparing by doing Bigger first and I want him to start NOW if he's going to. Doing 2 years with HOD means no ECC. Not the end of the world but HIGHLY disappointing if a shift to MFW is needed. I've always wanted to enjoy ECC :D

 

Maybe you could still squeeze ECC in across a couple of summers for your oldest. Your youngest ones would still get it in the rotation. If you start Bigger now (I'm assuming you mean right now), maybe you could start Preparing sometime in the last half of next year, and have a little time at the end of that year to do ECC on into the summer.

[abrightmom]

I agree with you completely regarding the Read-Alouds. We have 3 Read-Alouds going right now and they're our favorite part of the day. We've been doing that since we started homeschooling. Besides MFW and other stuff, we're reading through SL Core 3.

 

Okay starrbuck12, this might do it for me! Are you able to read a SL Core and do MFW simultaneously??????? That is dreamy. I'd LOVE to do this without a SL IG. Just read the Cores 'cause we love 'em. But SL by itself just won't do it here. We need the Unit Study approach with more Biblical integration....but combining SL and MFW. Perhaps I'll dream about that rather than the MFW forums.

 

Will you share how you pull this off and what it looks like day to day?

 

My baby is STILL crying and the kids STILL haven't finished brushing their teeth and there is STILL clutter strewn about the upstairs and it's now PAST bedtime and someone's tongue is bleeding .... :glare:

[Sue G in PA]

I find parts to love about MFW and HOD. This was our first year with HOD. I am LOVING it. We are using Preparing and LHFHG. I adore Preparing. I'm not so enamored w/ LHFHG. I think it is a bit too "babyish" for my 5yo and 7yo (now he is 8). We ditched "most" of it by Jan. I can tell you that we did MFW K (loved it), 1st (was okay, but not our cup of tea), and ECC (real disappointment to me). I threw in the towel with ECC very early on. I wanted to LOVE ECC b/c I was soooo excited about it. It just didn't work for us. Others say it is their favorite year. So, we are probably just weird. :tongue_smilie: Next year I am torn between ADV. and Beyond. Leaning toward Adv. if I can find it for a good price. I already have Beyond. If HOD is drawing you, I would go for it and not second guess. You won't be disappointed. Running 2 or 3 guides is difficult but not impossible.

[....]

Okay starrbuck12, this might do it for me! Are you able to read a SL Core and do MFW simultaneously??????? That is dreamy. I'd LOVE to do this without a SL IG. Just read the Cores 'cause we love 'em. But SL by itself just won't do it here. We need the Unit Study approach with more Biblical integration....but combining SL and MFW. Perhaps I'll dream about that rather than the MFW forums.

 

Will you share how you pull this off and what it looks like day to day?

 

My baby is STILL crying and the kids STILL haven't finished brushing their teeth and there is STILL clutter strewn about the upstairs and it's now PAST bedtime and someone's tongue is bleeding .... :glare:

 

I hesitate to post our schedule...:tongue_smilie: I'm going to get scary pm's from people. Keep in mind that Kid #1 was identified as gifted in ps, so please don't call the authorities. :D

 

My kids are broken into two groups: the 6 yro and the 9 yro/8 yro. Also, I have to add that we school year-round (it makes a big difference) and things change for us as we finish up stuff. And, when they are tired, we take a break.

 

6 yro:

 

M-Th - MFW 1st Grade, Miquon Math

M, W, F - History from SL Core 1 (we just finished Houses and Homes)

M-Th - Read-Aloud from SL Core 1 (Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle)

I use other resources like HOP Readers, etc.

 

8 yro/9 yro:

 

M-Th - MFW Exploring Countries and Cultures

M, W, F - SL Core 3 Read-Alouds (2) and 1 Reader (assigned as homework)

M, F - Apologia Botany w/ notebooking

Th - A Child's Geography and Apologia's Land Animals Co-op Classes

 

8 yro works thru -

Growing with Grammar (4x wk)

Writing with Ease 2 (2-3x wk)

McGuffey Readers - vocab/spelling notebooking/reading (2x wk)

Singapore Math (4x wk)

Miquon Math (2x wk)

Spelling (4x wk - switching to SWO)

 

9 yro works thru -

Growing with Grammar (4x wk)

MCT LA (Building Language, Sentence Island, etc - 3x wk)

Writing with Ease 3 (2-3x wk - she's kinda outgrown this)

McGuffey Readers - vocab/spelling notebooking/reading (2x wk)

Singapore Math (4x wk)

Miquon Math (2x wk)

Spelling (she's in Megawords right now - 4x wk)

 

8 yro/9 yro do WTM notebooking across all subjects and I assign independent work while I'm teaching 6 yro. By the time I'm finished with 6 yro, 8 yro/9 yro have a lot of their schoolwork finished.

 

9 yro reads independently through Core Knowledge book or other reading selections for homework and completes writing assignment based on Logic Stage writing (1-level outline, narrative summary and literary essay).

 

We work on other odds and ends - like Core Knowledge books, we did a Rock Identification Workshop, we did a Simple Machines Workshop, we made a volcano...etc. We spend the same amount of time in school as the public school kids next door.

 

My 9 yro wants to be a veterinarian and I bet my 8 yro ends up an architect or something similar (he's interested in mapmaking, too :tongue_smilie:).

[Bostonmom]

I have two thoughts: First, if you haven't already, decide what your goals are for your home. What is the MOST important thing for you and dh--family unity, depth of studies, something else? Then prayerfully make a pro and con list of each curriculum based on that TOP goal.

 

Second, I had this exact same discussion with myself last year. We decided to stick with MFW and supplement with the best of HOD. Basically, we do the major subjects of MFW together, and I put HOD stuff in their workboxes each morning. That takes more work for me, but I feel like we're getting the best of both worlds. We can't do all of it of course, and it means buying more curriculum, but it's working for us.

 

:001_smile:

[abrightmom]

I hesitate to post our schedule...:tongue_smilie: I'm going to get scary pm's from people. Keep in mind that Kid #1 was identified as gifted in ps, so please don't call the authorities. :D

 

My kids are broken into two groups: the 6 yro and the 9 yro/8 yro. Also, I have to add that we school year-round (it makes a big difference) and things change for us as we finish up stuff. And, when they are tired, we take a break.

 

6 yro:

 

M-Th - MFW 1st Grade, Miquon Math

M, W, F - History from SL Core 1 (we just finished Houses and Homes)

M-Th - Read-Aloud from SL Core 1 (Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle)

I use other resources like HOP Readers, etc.

 

8 yro/9 yro:

 

M-Th - MFW Exploring Countries and Cultures

M, W, F - SL Core 3 Read-Alouds (2) and 1 Reader (assigned as homework)

M, F - Apologia Botany w/ notebooking

Th - A Child's Geography and Apologia's Land Animals Co-op Classes

 

8 yro works thru -

Growing with Grammar (4x wk)

Writing with Ease 2 (2-3x wk)

McGuffey Readers - vocab/spelling notebooking/reading (2x wk)

Singapore Math (4x wk)

Miquon Math (2x wk)

Spelling (4x wk - switching to SWO)

 

9 yro works thru -

Growing with Grammar (4x wk)

MCT LA (Building Language, Sentence Island, etc - 3x wk)

Writing with Ease 3 (2-3x wk - she's kinda outgrown this)

McGuffey Readers - vocab/spelling notebooking/reading (2x wk)

Singapore Math (4x wk)

Miquon Math (2x wk)

Spelling (she's in Megawords right now - 4x wk)

 

8 yro/9 yro do WTM notebooking across all subjects and I assign independent work while I'm teaching 6 yro. By the time I'm finished with 6 yro, 8 yro/9 yro have a lot of their schoolwork finished.

 

9 yro reads independently through Core Knowledge book or other reading selections for homework and completes writing assignment based on Logic Stage writing (1-level outline, narrative summary and literary essay).

 

We work on other odds and ends - like Core Knowledge books, we did a Rock Identification Workshop, we did a Simple Machines Workshop, we made a volcano...etc. We spend the same amount of time in school as the public school kids next door.

 

My 9 yro wants to be a veterinarian and I bet my 8 yro ends up an architect or something similar (he's interested in mapmaking, too :tongue_smilie:).

 

Ballpark start and stop times????? :001_smile:

 

Amazing woman you are with some pretty special kiddos (I assume, based on your emoticon, that your dear 3 year old is a stinker :D. Keeps things lively doesn't it?)! See, I like this. You've taken what you love and smushed it together into something that works for your family. I love that you ARE doing WTM "stuff" (the writing parts that are so good) with SL & MFW. I have some thinking to do here....

 

How do you do WTM notebooking across all subjects? I'm familiar with SWB's recommendations for reading, history & science pages (in a bazillion notebooks :D). Do the kids make reading pages from one or two of their SL books each week? Are you doing additional history notebooking or simply using WTM recommended skills ON the MFW notebooking pages?

 

How are they notebooking with McGuffey readers and why? You have a lot going on with MCT, GWG, WWE, spelling, etc. Why McG's?

 

Thanks for your input here. It's so valuable to me. My head is spinning. There is NO WAY I'm going to the MFW forum tonight. :001_smile: I think I'll re-read TWTM instead. :D

[abrightmom]

I have two thoughts: First, if you haven't already, decide what your goals are for your home. What is the MOST important thing for you and dh--family unity, depth of studies, something else? Then prayerfully make a pro and con list of each curriculum based on that TOP goal.

 

Second, I had this exact same discussion with myself last year. We decided to stick with MFW and supplement with the best of HOD. Basically, we do the major subjects of MFW together, and I put HOD stuff in their workboxes each morning. That takes more work for me, but I feel like we're getting the best of both worlds. We can't do all of it of course, and it means buying more curriculum, but it's working for us.

 

:001_smile:

I almost missed your post! I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE to hear more about this....how many kids, what MFW year, specific HOD "extras".

 

Yes, we've definitely done the whole range of reading, praying, listening to seminars (SWB and TOG), praying, listing, reading a billion samples, asking as many questions, discussing ad nauseum, etc. Goals are defined and practically written in blood. :001_smile:

[Bostonmom]

I have 5 kids, but i do this with the oldest 3. They are ages 9, 11, 11. We've been doing the MFW/HOD thing since they were 8, 10, 10. Creation to Christ and Resurrection to Reformation (HOD) line up perfectly with MFW's Creation to the Greeks and Rome to the Ref. Most of the HOD stuff I used in the workboxes of my 2 olders bc it was above my younger one's ability to do independently. For next year, I'm considering supplementing a few items from Bigger Hearts with my 10yo and several items from the newest guide with the older two, while doing MFW Ex. to 1850 Bible/History/Science together.

 

With younger kids this would be harder bc what I do assumes they can do a lot independently.

 

With that said, we did ECC a few years ago, as written with no supplements, and we had a fantastic year. At that age, while they're still young, I find that less is more. As they get older, I like to challenge them more while keeping them bonded together.

 

Hope that helps! :001_smile:

[johnandtinagilbert]

Katrina,

I have thought something about you for some time....you're not giving yourself enough credit! You're finishing up year 3 of your home schooling adventure, right? You know what you want in schooling, right? You know your philosophy, right? You even know what materials can help guide you to that direction, right? SEE! You are in a descent place as a home schooler.

 

I TOTALLY understand how nice day to day schedules can be, but let me share something weird that happened here this year....I dropped the grammar school scheduling! I put up the list of "subjects" and wrote down our long term goals and all the "skills and content" I prefer to include (poetry, music, narration, outlining, read alouds, etc.). I make sure we cover the important things however many times we need each week (PR-3days each, daily memorization, etc.), and then I go round and round that schedule from there, making sure I've hit our goals each week. We have met our goals Every.Week. which was not the case when we stuck to our daily-incremental schedule. I swear the "pressure" for me to complete the schedule made me a worse teacher many times, although not every day! Oddly, Not having it all written out has offered me a sense of freedom and took away all the pressure. I am happier. We are getting the same amount of work done, but with more joy from mom. Hindsight continues to tell me to Enjoy this journey more and more and more and letting go of my obsessive planning (at least a little, cuz you know it's tough to drop that obsession all the way), has truly made our year better.

 

The teacher in you seems so in love w/ HOD, but the heart of your whole family seems to lead you to keep everyone together as long as you can (our heart is there, too). Perhaps using MFW will allow you to work out the SWB recs you respect so strongly, still give that sweet CM touch, and open up the door for PR, which your dc are missing. Although I greatly appreciate having all of your goals met from one direction, you can still meet all those goals, including some of your favorite providers, by using an eclectic approach.

 

I'm no help, I guess, just wanted to say, *I* think *you* can do better than you think without the day to day plan laid out for you. As much time as you (hee hee -- me, too) spend here, you have a TON of time for planning! :D

[KeriJ]

Katrina,

I have thought something about you for some time....you're not giving yourself enough credit! You're finishing up year 3 of your home schooling adventure, right? You know what you want in schooling, right? You know your philosophy, right? You even know what materials can help guide you to that direction, right? SEE! You are in a descent place as a home schooler.

 

I TOTALLY understand how nice day to day schedules can be, but let me share something weird that happened here this year....I dropped the grammar school scheduling! I put up the list of "subjects" and wrote down our long term goals and all the "skills and content" I prefer to include (poetry, music, narration, outlining, read alouds, etc.). I make sure we cover the important things however many times we need each week (PR-3days each, daily memorization, etc.), and then I go round and round that schedule from there, making sure I've hit our goals each week. We have met our goals Every.Week. which was not the case when we stuck to our daily-incremental schedule. I swear the "pressure" for me to complete the schedule made me a worse teacher many times, although not every day! Oddly, Not having it all written out has offered me a sense of freedom and took away all the pressure. I am happier. We are getting the same amount of work done, but with more joy from mom. Hindsight continues to tell me to Enjoy this journey more and more and more and letting go of my obsessive planning (at least a little, cuz you know it's tough to drop that obsession all the way), has truly made our year better.

 

The teacher in you seems so in love w/ HOD, but the heart of your whole family seems to lead you to keep everyone together as long as you can (our heart is there, too). Perhaps using MFW will allow you to work out the SWB recs you respect so strongly, still give that sweet CM touch, and open up the door for PR, which your dc are missing. Although I greatly appreciate having all of your goals met from one direction, you can still meet all those goals, including some of your favorite providers, by using an eclectic approach.

 

I'm no help, I guess, just wanted to say, *I* think *you* can do better than you think without the day to day plan laid out for you. As much time as you (hee hee -- me, too) spend here, you have a TON of time for planning! :D

 

Great post!

[KeriJ]

Katrina,

I have thought something about you for some time....you're not giving yourself enough credit! You're finishing up year 3 of your home schooling adventure, right? You know what you want in schooling, right? You know your philosophy, right? You even know what materials can help guide you to that direction, right? SEE! You are in a descent place as a home schooler.

 

I TOTALLY understand how nice day to day schedules can be, but let me share something weird that happened here this year....I dropped the grammar school scheduling! I put up the list of "subjects" and wrote down our long term goals and all the "skills and content" I prefer to include (poetry, music, narration, outlining, read alouds, etc.). I make sure we cover the important things however many times we need each week (PR-3days each, daily memorization, etc.), and then I go round and round that schedule from there, making sure I've hit our goals each week. We have met our goals Every.Week. which was not the case when we stuck to our daily-incremental schedule. I swear the "pressure" for me to complete the schedule made me a worse teacher many times, although not every day! Oddly, Not having it all written out has offered me a sense of freedom and took away all the pressure. I am happier. We are getting the same amount of work done, but with more joy from mom. Hindsight continues to tell me to Enjoy this journey more and more and more and letting go of my obsessive planning (at least a little, cuz you know it's tough to drop that obsession all the way), has truly made our year better.

 

The teacher in you seems so in love w/ HOD, but the heart of your whole family seems to lead you to keep everyone together as long as you can (our heart is there, too). Perhaps using MFW will allow you to work out the SWB recs you respect so strongly, still give that sweet CM touch, and open up the door for PR, which your dc are missing. Although I greatly appreciate having all of your goals met from one direction, you can still meet all those goals, including some of your favorite providers, by using an eclectic approach.

 

I'm no help, I guess, just wanted to say, *I* think *you* can do better than you think without the day to day plan laid out for you. As much time as you (hee hee -- me, too) spend here, you have a TON of time for planning! :D

 

OK, I read this again and it really resonated with me because I am in the exact same boat. For me, I'm always looking for the perfect plan where I don't have to do any planning of my own. But it just doesn't exist. I really think I will end up going with MFW and just use book lists and other elements of HOD that I like. (not ready to commit to a permanent plan yet though)

 

Seriously, thank you!

Edited April 12, 2011 by KeriJ

[johnandtinagilbert]

OK, I read this again and it really resonated with me because I am in the exact same boat. For me, I'm always looking for the perfect plan where I don't have to do any planning of my own. But it just doesn't exist. I really think I will end up going with MFW and just use book lists and other elements of HOD that I like. (not ready to commit to a permanent plan yet though)

 

Seriously, thank you!

You're welcome. I started looking around about a month ago and realized I had not had a melt down, none of the kids had, and I pondered what the differences were. It all came down to ME not following a play-by-play schedule. You have No Idea how weird that sounds coming from my mouth! But, after listening to "RELAX!" again and again from moms of home school graduates, I decided to! It has transformed our home school and we're all having so much more fun! Rigor doesn't have to mean "grindstone." We get the academic rigor, with no stress, with joy and with freedom. It only took me 12 years to realize that elementary school really and truly doesn't have to be filled with pressure. What a difference!

[....]

Ballpark start and stop times????? :001_smile:

 

How do you do WTM notebooking across all subjects? I'm familiar with SWB's recommendations for reading, history & science pages (in a bazillion notebooks :D). Do the kids make reading pages from one or two of their SL books each week? Are you doing additional history notebooking or simply using WTM recommended skills ON the MFW notebooking pages?

 

How are they notebooking with McGuffey readers and why? You have a lot going on with MCT, GWG, WWE, spelling, etc. Why McG's?

 

 

First, johnandtinagilbert has GREAT advice (and a great blog).

 

Second, we do a full day of school. We try to start around 9am and end around 2pm.

 

I try to follow TWTM stuff above all else - especially with writing. Besides the writing that she describes in the book, she has audio lectures on the Peace Hill Press website that go in depth on writing for each stage. My 9 yro is a very good writer. Like I said, she's started logic stage writing.

 

OK, notebooking. Each kid has a 5 subject notebook - divided into 5 main subjects (LA, Reading, Social Studies, Science, Latin). I have them write down any vocab they encounter in reading, notes from science class, words that they don't know how to spell...they will have to copy a sentence from their Read-aloud or I'll dictate a sentence from their Reader. We do this every day, but not for every subject, every day.

 

I'll do any additional notebooking in MFW, but I won't do Writing Strands (which is their recommended writing program). We're already doing a lot of writing and I'm really happy with where they're at.

 

McGuffey Readers are weird. I just have them in the house, so we use them. It takes maybe 10 minutes for my kids to read a poem from the Reader and copy a few lines of poetry into their notebooks. The books were written in the 1800s and the language is very heavy. My 9 yro is always looking words up in the dictionary that appear in the Reader. I really only have the kids read these twice a week (I think I shoot for Tues/Thurs). I'm not sure why we do this, but I suspect it pushes their reading level.

 

 

Edited to say: our first year of homeschooling, I didn't have my kids do any of the writing/notebooking that I described above. My kids were totally treading water with writing. My kids made leaps in writing after we started all the notebooking/writing.

Edited April 12, 2011 by starrbuck12

[abrightmom]

Katrina,

I have thought something about you for some time....you're not giving yourself enough credit! You're finishing up year 3 of your home schooling adventure, right? You know what you want in schooling, right? You know your philosophy, right? You even know what materials can help guide you to that direction, right? SEE! You are in a descent place as a home schooler.

 

I TOTALLY understand how nice day to day schedules can be, but let me share something weird that happened here this year....I dropped the grammar school scheduling! I put up the list of "subjects" and wrote down our long term goals and all the "skills and content" I prefer to include (poetry, music, narration, outlining, read alouds, etc.). I make sure we cover the important things however many times we need each week (PR-3days each, daily memorization, etc.), and then I go round and round that schedule from there, making sure I've hit our goals each week. We have met our goals Every.Week. which was not the case when we stuck to our daily-incremental schedule. I swear the "pressure" for me to complete the schedule made me a worse teacher many times, although not every day! Oddly, Not having it all written out has offered me a sense of freedom and took away all the pressure. I am happier. We are getting the same amount of work done, but with more joy from mom. Hindsight continues to tell me to Enjoy this journey more and more and more and letting go of my obsessive planning (at least a little, cuz you know it's tough to drop that obsession all the way), has truly made our year better.

 

The teacher in you seems so in love w/ HOD, but the heart of your whole family seems to lead you to keep everyone together as long as you can (our heart is there, too). Perhaps using MFW will allow you to work out the SWB recs you respect so strongly, still give that sweet CM touch, and open up the door for PR, which your dc are missing. Although I greatly appreciate having all of your goals met from one direction, you can still meet all those goals, including some of your favorite providers, by using an eclectic approach.

 

I'm no help, I guess, just wanted to say, *I* think *you* can do better than you think without the day to day plan laid out for you. As much time as you (hee hee -- me, too) spend here, you have a TON of time for planning! :D

 

Tina,

 

Such kind words. I going through a metamorphosis here....I'm definitely thinking about what you have shared. It is along the lines of what I shared with my DH...that having a structure like MFW (which I prefer to no plan at all) gives me the flex to put some of the meat where I want it taking ideas from HOD and WTM and SL.....

 

I'm going to share this post with my DH. I always refer to "Tina" and he knows exactly who I'm talking about :D. My kids ask, "Mom, who is Tina?"

[abrightmom]

OK, I read this again and it really resonated with me because I am in the exact same boat. For me, I'm always looking for the perfect plan where I don't have to do any planning of my own. But it just doesn't exist. I really think I will end up going with MFW and just use book lists and other elements of HOD that I like. (not ready to commit to a permanent plan yet though)

 

Seriously, thank you!

 

I agree Keri. Tina is really good at thinking through "stuff"....

[johnandtinagilbert]

Tina,

 

Such kind words. I going through a metamorphosis here....I'm definitely thinking about what you have shared. It is along the lines of what I shared with my DH...that having a structure like MFW (which I prefer to no plan at all) gives me the flex to put some of the meat where I want it taking ideas from HOD and WTM and SL.....

 

I'm going to share this post with my DH. I always refer to "Tina" and he knows exactly who I'm talking about :D. My kids ask, "Mom, who is Tina?"

:lol: I actually used you as an example of myself to my dc! We were talking about growth in careers and I told them how much you reminded me of me...so happy to find yourself as a teacher, but then trying to figure out how to implement what is IN you. If you were close, I'd so hug you right now! :grouphug:

[johnandtinagilbert]

I agree Keri. Tina is really good at thinking through "stuff"....

Thank you both. Honestly, I've just tripped over myself so many times in this journey that I may finally have gotten a real grip on many areas of life these past couple of years. I like encouraging others to stop tripping and glide! It's so much nicer on the knees!

[kidsnbooks8]

I totally agree Tina has given very wise advice! HOD guides are awesome, but trying to juggle a couple of them at 1 time totally took all the joy out of it for US.(emphasis on us, meaning my family, I know others do just fine)It all just became work and hurry to finish to do the next thing or onto the next person. I am not using any of the popular curriculum being discussed, but we are all in the same time period and working together and it has been so much more enjoyable for US. I am working with 5 children Pre-K - 7th.

 

Many :grouphug::grouphug: as you try to find what works best for your precious family.

[cbollin]

Ah, now I understand what you’re looking for. Thanks. You still might just use HOD and it’s ok. you're choosing from 2 really good programs.

But I can answer what you’re asking now. It makes more sense to me. And I agree, those are “amazing elements†to include. I just didn’t understand what you meant.

 

 

You’ll be able to see lots of samples of all notebooking at convention. MFW keeps those samples on display and includes from several children at various ages.

 

For blog, I’d start with MishMashMaggie’s MFW blog roll, but I don’t know who has the best pictures, but I love Mishmashmaggie’s own links to her family’s ECC, CTG, RTR years and how they really show the program.

http://www.mishmashmaggie.com/2010/07/2010-2011-mfw-blogroll.html

 

Poetry study is primarily in the language arts with PLL and ILL.

 

Narration is expected every day in MFW, so they don’t list it every day after a little while in the schedule.

 

Dictation and copywork is primarily through Bible verses and other lessons in PLL and ILL. Instructions are given on that in the teaching helps sections of the introduction of the TM but the instructions not repeated each day

 

I found it easy to use Draw and Write through History while using MFW. I had decided to use that book series about 5 years ago. I knew my middle child would appreciate what to draw on her history notebooking pages with specific how to draw it. It’s really easy to line it up with the notebooking pages in CTG and RTR.

 

Cursive copywork: well, we don’t use Draw and Write thru History for that. We use those cursive things for practice in reading cursive, and then just use a cursive workbook for the skills of cursive. I have my children write Bible verses in cursive.

 

Science in CTG: “Does the booklist give recommendations for books on inventors, scientists, etc. from the era being studied?â€

 

Yes, there is cross over with ancient Egypt (Pyramids book and book basket) and ancient Greece with inventors and scientists. Plus the Archimedes and the Door to Science is all about Archimedes.

The rest of the Genesis for Kids science is hands on experiments in chemistry, physics and biology. The few pages in G4K includes experiments. There’s a lot of them too.

 

Here, check out MishMash Maggie’s CTG year for more on that.

http://www.mishmashmaggie.com/p/ctg-creation-to-greeks.html

 

and of course there is the whole Genesis for Kids sections on the introduction to scientific method and how to observe and record and all of that. My dh is a phd chemist and we’re happy with the CTG science, But other people hate it.

 

I like Streams of Civilization. It’s only done in small sections. I’d like to point out Marie’s reasons for Streams and reasons for not doing SOTW vol 1.

http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=486

http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=365

 

State Study is done in EX1850, 1850MOD along with president’s study and individual state history report.

 

Memory work: Bible, and the memory work in PLL and ILL with poetry.

 

Outlining with SOTW comes from SOTW activity book. I guess I didn’t understand your real question on that. Sorry.

 

 

Hymns study: yes, the book Then Sings my Soul is in Ex1850 and 1850MOD. There was one year where Marie tried to use it in ECC, but it didn’t fit well.

MFW even provides a place to listen to the hymns

http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9605

http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=9606

 

 

-crystal

[abrightmom]

Ah, now I understand what you’re looking for. Thanks. You still might just use HOD and it’s ok. you're choosing from 2 really good programs.

But I can answer what you’re asking now. It makes more sense to me. And I agree, those are “amazing elements†to include. I just didn’t understand what you meant.

 

 

You’ll be able to see lots of samples of all notebooking at convention. MFW keeps those samples on display and includes from several children at various ages.

 

For blog, I’d start with MishMashMaggie’s MFW blog roll, but I don’t know who has the best pictures, but I love Mishmashmaggie’s own links to her family’s ECC, CTG, RTR years and how they really show the program.

http://www.mishmashmaggie.com/2010/07/2010-2011-mfw-blogroll.html

 

Poetry study is primarily in the language arts with PLL and ILL.

 

Narration is expected every day in MFW, so they don’t list it every day after a little while in the schedule.

 

Dictation and copywork is primarily through Bible verses and other lessons in PLL and ILL. Instructions are given on that in the teaching helps sections of the introduction of the TM but the instructions not repeated each day

 

I found it easy to use Draw and Write through History while using MFW. I had decided to use that book series about 5 years ago. I knew my middle child would appreciate what to draw on her history notebooking pages with specific how to draw it. It’s really easy to line it up with the notebooking pages in CTG and RTR.

 

Cursive copywork: well, we don’t use Draw and Write thru History for that. We use those cursive things for practice in reading cursive, and then just use a cursive workbook for the skills of cursive. I have my children write Bible verses in cursive.

 

Science in CTG: “Does the booklist give recommendations for books on inventors, scientists, etc. from the era being studied?â€

 

Yes, there is cross over with ancient Egypt (Pyramids book and book basket) and ancient Greece with inventors and scientists. Plus the Archimedes and the Door to Science is all about Archimedes.

The rest of the Genesis for Kids science is hands on experiments in chemistry, physics and biology. The few pages in G4K includes experiments. There’s a lot of them too.

 

Here, check out MishMash Maggie’s CTG year for more on that.

http://www.mishmashmaggie.com/p/ctg-creation-to-greeks.html

 

and of course there is the whole Genesis for Kids sections on the introduction to scientific method and how to observe and record and all of that. My dh is a phd chemist and we’re happy with the CTG science, But other people hate it.

 

I like Streams of Civilization. It’s only done in small sections. I’d like to point out Marie’s reasons for Streams and reasons for not doing SOTW vol 1.

http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=486

http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=365

 

State Study is done in EX1850, 1850MOD along with president’s study and individual state history report.

 

Memory work: Bible, and the memory work in PLL and ILL with poetry.

 

Outlining with SOTW comes from SOTW activity book. I guess I didn’t understand your real question on that. Sorry.

 

 

Hymns study: yes, the book Then Sings my Soul is in Ex1850 and 1850MOD. There was one year where Marie tried to use it in ECC, but it didn’t fit well.

MFW even provides a place to listen to the hymns

http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9605

http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=9606

 

 

-crystal

 

Crystal,

 

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS is very helpful.....it's just not as evident when poring over samples. I'm going to take a bit more time with this......and I'll read those links.

 

MishMashMaggie is darling....her timeline is gorgeous. I'm going to hang out more on her site today after I meet with my kiddos :001_smile:

 

Crystal, do you know of a specific thread on MFW that discusses how Moms add in some Apologia in varying years of MFW? I know it's used a couple of times (Astronomy and Botany I think) but I'd like to read more how other Moms have folded other Apologia guides in alongside. We adore Apologia (the Young Explorers Series).

 

As far as the SOTW outlining is concerned I was just curious if the outlining assignments are explicit in MFW or are they just "suggested by the SOTW AG"? That's not a biggie at this point because we're not remotely close to that stage and I can "cross that bridge when I get there".

[cbollin]

The SOTW outlining is specific in 1850MOD and assigned.

 

Using the other Apologia elementary books in MFW.. let me think a minute.

In RTR (rome to the reformation), there was a recent thread on mfw board about using the new anatomy book. It’s working ok for some who mentioned it with jr. notebook for youngers? (oh yeah, 2nd semester in RTR is when Astronomy is used)

http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10739

 

Zoology series, I use to hear people doing one of those during ECC, except now that the Answers in Genesis, Properties of Ecosystems is used in ECC, I don’t hear that as much.

 

I think some still like to do one in CTG year. Given how the science in CTG is lighter than in ECC or RTR (in terms of days per week schedule), that can work.

 

In EX1850, MFW does a semester on taxonomy of animal kingdom with AiG book and a thick picture based encyclopedia. The other semester is the apologia botany book.

 

 

-crystal

[KeriJ]

Katrina, here is how I see it right now as far as HOD goes...for me anyway. If I do two guides, it makes for a longer day. and for me it is mentally more complicated. Eventually it would be more guides since I have two little ones coming up later.

 

If I combine, then one child will never quite be perfectly placed at the exact level to receive the benefit of the incremental skill development that HOD specializes in. (I worry that it will always bother me)

 

If I go with MFW, I can spend the time that I would have spent on 2 HOD guides and add some HOD elements to it to better fit our family's desires. I'm considering using DITHOR during the summers and use the HOD book lists during the school year for read alouds etc. (I know I will pull from the MFW book basket as well)

 

I plan to stick with R&S grammar since that is what we are already using, and then work our way through PLL during the summers for some of that CM LA richness and possibly WWE in the summers for my love of SWB's writing philosophy.

 

If I had an only child, it would be HOD hands down. But I don't. I want to do what is best for each child, but that also fits into the frame work of what is best for the whole family.

 

This is where I am leaning at the moment....although we all know that could change at any time. :)

Edited April 12, 2011 by KeriJ
clarity

[abrightmom]

Crystal,

 

I snuck a peek at those links (Maggie's again and Marie's reasons for Streams). I'm sobered.....I love the notebooking pages ( I do see that she's using some pre-made ones from notebookingpages.com which is a great idea to increase the writing at different levels. There are a lot of free Bible and history pages on their site that work beautifully.). I also love seeing the kids working TOGETHER...which brings such joy to this Mama's heart.

 

Marie's reasons for choosing Streams are excellent and actually resonate with what we want in teaching our children about history, especially "the beginning" which is so controversial.

 

I'm going to pull Streams out again today and read with a fresh perspective. I may do a little test run with my guys too...they're a bit on the young side still as they wouldn't hit CTG for two years but it's worth a shot.

 

At this point MFW is winning the race.....

[KeriJ]

p.s. we also do Apologia in the summers. I just prefer to have a little bit of summer school, and for us a PLL type book, reading and science are fun.

[abrightmom]

Katrina, here is how I see it right now as far as HOD goes...for me anyway. If I do two guides, it makes for a longer day. and for me it is mentally more complicated. Eventually it would be more guides since I have two little ones coming up later.

 

If I combine, then one child will never quite be perfectly placed at the exact level to receive the benefit of the incremental skill development that HOD specializes in. (I worry that it will always bother me)

 

If I go with MFW, I can spend the time that I would have spent on 2 HOD guides and add some HOD elements to it to better fit our family's desires. I'm considering using DITHOR during the summers and use the HOD book lists during the school year for read alouds etc. (I know I will pull from the MFW book basket as well)

 

I plan to stick with R&S grammar since that is what we are already using, and then work our way through PLL during the summers for some of that CM LA richness and possibly WWE in the summers for my love of SWB's writing philosophy.

 

If I had an only child, it would be HOD hands down. But I don't. I want to do what is best for each child, but that also fits into the frame work of what is best for the whole family.

 

This is where I am leaning at the moment....although we all know that could change at any time. :)

 

Keri,

 

Admittedly, I am leaning the same way. I'll likely do a little of what starrbuck12 does with a MFW/SL combo. My youngest child is so much younger than the rest that he will be my HOD guy :D. But, I am pretty sure we're going with MFW because the family learning and togetherness is vital for us. With some extra effort on my part I can infuse our homeschool with the HOD elements that are so important to me... Combining doesn't matter as much right now but it will matter in about two years when my oldest would begin to be really separated to do his work and the youngers will be able to get into what we're learning and studying.

 

For our family, another bonus is the opportunity to spend one year, prior to my oldest beginning high school, to do a bang up countries/cultures study with a mish mash (:D I have her blog on my brain) of ECC, SL Core 5 and some other cool stuff. My kids will be at GREAT ages for that (5th, 6th, 8th) and I get chills just thinking about the opportunity to plan a year focused on missions, cultures, geography, etc. before my big boy launches into high school. I love dreaming about the possibilities.....

 

You should check out the links Crystal shared. They're excellent!:001_smile:

[abrightmom]

Keri,

 

By the way, you could use some of PLL during the school year even though you're using R&S. If you were to use HOD you'd be doing the R&S English AND poetry copywork. You could pull some lovely copywork from PLL, skipping over the portions of PLL that are more grammar oriented. There is also some nice picture study in PLL. It's a lovely lovely book ...

 

I won't drop formal grammar either...it's either going to be PR or Rod & Staff which I happen to really like too :001_smile:. Jury is still out on that one though.... What do you use for phonics/spelling/reading?? :001_smile:

 

I like the looks of DITHOR overall but did not want to begin it with my oldest. I was really going back and forth on it. I spent time getting ready for it and then decided I wasn't sure I wanted to do that with him just yet...I kinda felt bad about it too. LOVE the books but not certain I want him to use the workbook just yet..... It's something that is very flexible though so if you find value in it you could use it half time all throughout the school year. The projects look GREAT and there are some excellent skills Carrie is teaching via the work in DITHOR at every level. It could easily be used alongside MFW for a kiddo who is ready for it. Or, you can do reading notebook pages a la SWB/WTM. I like her ideas as well....I'm going to re-visit those as I know my kids would profit from those methods.

[home'scoolmom]

abrightmom,

 

I hear you on the desire to want to keep your kids together. I have 8 kids, 15 down to infant. I looked at HOD and MFW both extensively before deciding. I even purchased manuals from both and compared them side by side. I ended up with HOD because I felt, as you said, that HOD was richer, by a long shot. Of course one can only tell for sure by implementing the program for a time, but I went with my inclination. We've been using HOD for almost two years now.

 

The "together" aspect of MFW still appeals to me, and I think about it sometimes. We are loving HOD so much though, it is SO rich indeed, and the guides are just genius. The more guides I use the more I think this. Carrie has a gift, and is detail-oriented to the max, and this shows in the guides. This is one of the main differences I saw in the HOD and MFW guides - HOD has more details, yet organized in a usable way. Some people love this, some are overwhelmed or irritated by it. I love it.

 

Here's my thoughts and how we are implementing HOD:

 

Since my kids aren't together with history, I do a daily lesson with all my kids together to start our day. We rotate subjects like art and composer study, geography, patriotic studies, latin root study, and nature study. My kids love this. Do my kids have to be studying history together to have unity? My thoughts lately have been I'm wondering if this is emphasized a wee bit much. I don't know. I like to have them separated for science anyway since I've found it doesn't work well to combine for that in the past. MFW has kids separated out entirely beginning in 9th grade anyway, so we are just talking about a five year span between grades 3 and 8. Or I guess 2 and 8. I was a little leery about actually trying to combine that big of an age range for history and science. Does it actually work well? It seems like that little 2nd grader would get left in the dust. I know it must work on some level though because I know people do it.

 

Also, even though I love the idea of combining for history, I really REALLY love the school of thought that BF and HOD espouse regarding the history cycle. Starting little ones with basically scripture history and then American history, waiting to introduce ancients and other time periods until the child is older...basically waiting to start the classical four-year model until later. So that factors in for me as well.

 

Also, have you looked at HOD's reading program DITHOR? We just started implementing this in earnest and it is amazing because: a) it teaches great literary analysis, b) it uses any books you want, c) it has character study and d) we can all do it TOGETHER!! I didn't realize this before. It's designed for this. I've even been including our high schoolers and it works great. It has daily studies you do together and projects at the end of each genre that you work on together as well. So we have been incorporating DITHOR into our daily family lessons together in the AM, and it is a great family bonding time.

 

We also read and discuss books aloud together as a family each day. There are also components of HOD that I have combined all my kids together for just because I like it. For example I am going to combine my kids together to do the Bible study focusing on character in Bigger. We also combined all kids together during the art and poetry in last year's CTC. Everyone had a blast and just painted on their own level. We all memorized the poems together and took turns presenting and reciting them.

 

So to sum up, we are finding other ways to study together and create family unity by studying other subjects. It's working wonderfully, and it hasn't been hard to do. Maybe one day that will change but for now this is our solution.

 

 

And one last thought. After having used CTC, and about to use RTR and Rev to Rev, I've been thinking about these particular guides (and the soon to be released modern times guide). I've toyed with the idea of in the future combining all my dc together MFW style using those four Hearts For Him Through Time chronological HOD guides. I really think this would work, supplementing the youngers with lit at their level and combining everything else. CTC is pretty well sanitized of all violent/pagan god content and emphasizes the integration of Biblical and other ancient history, so would work well for younger dc in that regard. HOD's guides are overflowing with great ideas that can be implemented in any way you see fit for your family. A great tool.

 

So those are my disjointed, rambling thoughts for all they're worth. I am impressed with how much thought and study you are putting into this for your precious dc!

 

mp

[KeriJ]

We have had success with Abeka phonics. I tweak it to make it less classroom oriented. We use it for K and 1st. By the end of 1st my dd was reading chapter books, so I just pulled from the SL book lists and a few others.

 

I have really liked R&S spelling this year. I think we will probably stick with it.

[abrightmom]

abrightmom' date='

 

I hear you on the desire to want to keep your kids together. I have 8 kids, 15 down to infant. I looked at HOD and MFW both extensively before deciding. I even purchased manuals from both and compared them side by side. I ended up with HOD because I felt, as you said, that HOD was richer, by a long shot. Of course one can only tell for sure by implementing the program for a time, but I went with my inclination. We've been using HOD for almost two years now.

 

The "together" aspect of MFW still appeals to me, and I think about it sometimes. We are loving HOD so much though, it is SO rich indeed, and the guides are just genius. The more guides I use the more I think this. Carrie has a gift, and is detail-oriented to the max, and this shows in the guides. This is one of the main differences I saw in the HOD and MFW guides - HOD has more details, yet organized in a usable way. Some people love this, some are overwhelmed or irritated by it. I love it.

 

Here's my thoughts and how we are implementing HOD:

 

Since my kids aren't together with history, I do a daily lesson with all my kids together to start our day. We rotate subjects like art and composer study, geography, patriotic studies, latin root study, and nature study. My kids love this. Do my kids have to be studying history together to have unity? My thoughts lately have been I'm wondering if this is emphasized a wee bit much. I don't know. I like to have them separated for science anyway since I've found it doesn't work well to combine for that in the past. MFW has kids separated out entirely beginning in 9th grade anyway, so we are just talking about a five year span between grades 3 and 8. Or I guess 2 and 8. I was a little leery about actually trying to combine that big of an age range for history and science. Does it actually work well? It seems like that little 2nd grader would get left in the dust. I know it must work on some level though because I know people do it.

 

Also, even though I love the idea of combining for history, I really REALLY love the school of thought that BF and HOD espouse regarding the history cycle. Starting little ones with basically scripture history and then American history, waiting to introduce ancients and other time periods until the child is older...basically waiting to start the classical four-year model until later. So that factors in for me as well.

 

Also, have you looked at HOD's reading program DITHOR? We just started implementing this in earnest and it is amazing because: a) it teaches great literary analysis, b) it uses any books you want, c) it has character study and d) we can all do it TOGETHER!! I didn't realize this before. It's designed for this. I've even been including our high schoolers and it works great. It has daily studies you do together and projects at the end of each genre that you work on together as well. So we have been incorporating DITHOR into our daily family lessons together in the AM, and it is a great family bonding time.

 

We also read and discuss books aloud together as a family each day. There are also components of HOD that I have combined all my kids together for just because I like it. For example I am going to combine my kids together to do the Bible study focusing on character in Bigger. We also combined all kids together during the art and poetry in last year's CTC. Everyone had a blast and just painted on their own level. We all memorized the poems together and took turns presenting and reciting them.

 

So to sum up, we are finding other ways to study together and create family unity by studying other subjects. It's working wonderfully, and it hasn't been hard to do. Maybe one day that will change but for now this is our solution.

 

 

And one last thought. After having used CTC, and about to use RTR and Rev to Rev, I've been thinking about these particular guides (and the soon to be released modern times guide). I've toyed with the idea of in the future combining all my dc together MFW style using those four Hearts For Him Through Time chronological HOD guides. I really think this would work, supplementing the youngers with lit at their level and combining everything else. CTC is pretty well sanitized of all violent/pagan god content and emphasizes the integration of Biblical and other ancient history, so would work well for younger dc in that regard. HOD's guides are overflowing with great ideas that can be implemented in any way you see fit for your family. A great tool.

 

So those are my disjointed, rambling thoughts for all they're worth. I am impressed with how much thought and study you are putting into this for your precious dc!

 

mp[/quote']

 

OH boy......this speaks volumes. Some great ideas and more food for thought. I need to tear myself away from the computer to pray and ponder.... Your way of implementing HOD is excellent and gives me some things to think about for sure. Thank-you thank-you thank-you for sharing. This does NOT make my decision any easier.....MFW today, HOD tomorrow. Boy oh boy.

[TracyP]

I think you should just start HOD. Start tomorrow or Monday....whatever works. Make a schedule but assume you will tweak until it fits. I personally like the idea of getting the youngest done first so they are free to play and then moving to the next but whatever works. Next Friday, make adjustments to the schedule and start up again. Commit to at least 6 weeks. Don't search MFW or anything else. You felt led to HOD at one point. Try it out. At the end of this time it will either work or not. You will know why it does or doesn't work and can decide from there. But just do it! Or ignore me.:D But I really think you won't know for sure until you try.

[abrightmom]

Also' date=' have you looked at HOD's reading program DITHOR? We just started implementing this in earnest and it is amazing because: a) it teaches great literary analysis, b) it uses any books you want, c) it has character study and d) we can all do it TOGETHER!! I didn't realize this before. It's designed for this. I've even been including our high schoolers and it works great. It has daily studies you do together and projects at the end of each genre that you work on together as well. So we have been incorporating DITHOR into our daily family lessons together in the AM, and it is a great family bonding time.

 

We also read and discuss books aloud together as a family each day. There are also components of HOD that I have combined all my kids together for just because I like it. For example I am going to combine my kids together to do the Bible study focusing on character in Bigger. We also combined all kids together during the art and poetry in last year's CTC. Everyone had a blast and just painted on their own level. We all memorized the poems together and took turns presenting and reciting them.

 

So to sum up, we are finding other ways to study together and create family unity by studying other subjects. It's working wonderfully, and it hasn't been hard to do. Maybe one day that will change but for now this is our solution.

 

 

And one last thought. After having used CTC, and about to use RTR and Rev to Rev, I've been thinking about these particular guides (and the soon to be released modern times guide). I've toyed with the idea of in the future combining all my dc together MFW style using those four Hearts For Him Through Time chronological HOD guides. I really think this would work, supplementing the youngers with lit at their level and combining everything else. CTC is pretty well sanitized of all violent/pagan god content and emphasizes the integration of Biblical and other ancient history, so would work well for younger dc in that regard. HOD's guides are overflowing with great ideas that can be implemented in any way you see fit for your family. A great tool.

 

[/quote']

 

How do you implement DITHOR together? That is intriguing. I have only used it so far as planning the first book/project for my 8 year old. I felt a bit overwhelmed by it and uncertain whether or not we'd enjoy it (or really need to be doing it at this point...). Is everybody reading their own book in a matching genre? The DITHOR workbooks are different at each level so I'm having difficulty seeing what it is you're doing with it....I'd love to hear more!

 

What books do you read and discuss as a family? Do you choose something from the HOD guides you are all studying? Do you do read alouds as a group?

 

I just re-read your post and felt empowered.... :D

 

BTW, I have a house full of sick kids and we're done with most of our school work for the year. Really, I'm not neglecting my children. :D I type fast too...