How to teach math to a boy who can't read

[AnthemLights]

He's going to be 6 in May. We did kinder this year...really tried to work on his reading. He went through Beginning Steps to Reading and some Hooked on Phonics. He is just not getting it. (But I guess that would be another thread).

 

He is really good at math...loves numbers and I really think that he could do math at a second grade level. But since he doesn't read yet, I have to sit next to him and explain what to do for each set of problems. Should I just do this and let him move ahead with his math as quickly as he wants or should I kind of hold back until his reading catches up? :confused:

[ondreeuh]

Well, regardless of reading level, I think sitting with the child and teaching the concepts, working out problems together, is extremely important. I would never recommend letting a child self-teach math, at least in the early years. It's time well invested to make sure the child understands what you are doing and can explain it back to you. After I teach the lesson, I go through the word problems with my son to make sure he understands them, and then I let him work independently. If he misses problems I write them on the whiteboard and have him try again, explaining what he's doing, and I re-teach if necessary.

[Amy Jo]

So sit with him, read the problems. Let him shine in math. If he mixes up the numbers perhaps something that deals with manipulatives and concepts (like Miquon). If he can't write well enough or long enough, do work orally or write it for him. My 8 year old is still not a fluent reader (he is improving though) - I wouldn't hold back other areas for reading.

 

I would do another thread / a search on the reading issues, if you think it is an issue. If blending hasn't clicked, attack reading by spelling (SWR/WRTR do this).

 

Reading is complicated for some kids (DS8 struggles, DS7 has learned easily). So don't beat yourselves up. He is not yet 6, you have time to figure this out. Enjoy good books and nature! Have fun!!!

[Aurelia]

I agree with the previous posters to sit with him and read the problems. There's no reason to hold him back in something he excels in, and it may backfire, leading him to be bored and frustrated in math.

[nmoira]

I agree with the previous posters to sit with him and read the problems. There's no reason to hold him back in something he excels in, and it may backfire, leading him to be bored and frustrated in math.

:iagree:

DD the Younger went through most of MEP Y1 without being able to read.

[boscopup]

Even a strong reader often needs mom to explain what to do in each section. My son reads well, and can certainly read the directions on the page, but being a first grader, he just needs someone else to say "You do this, then this, and this." I use a math program that can be fairly independent, but I expect to continue to go over directions for each section for at least the next year.

 

So yes, just go ahead with where he is at in math. As long as he can read the numbers, he can keep moving. You'll need to read the word problems to him, and those might be extra challenging if he's not good at figuring out a problem when hearing it.

 

He's still well within the realm of "normal" for the reading, so try not to freak out about that. :)

[skueppers]

My six-year old can read the instructions for her math work just fine, but she prefers that I do it for her most of the time.

 

I don't perceive this as a problem - I want to be there to help her as needed anyway. The point is for her to learn the math, not to work as independently as possible.

[kalanamak]

I think, even in 3rd, over 90% of what I do with SM is verbal and me making bar graphs on a white board. Can your child read numbers? If not 645, at least 45? What I've seen of MEP is not heavy on reading instructions either, but perhaps that is because we did it verbally as well. Now that kiddo is pretty steady with his reading, even if I speak the instructions, he wants to read them aloud, slowly, but we did it without him reading for some time

 

The bar diagrams are terrific.

[AnthemLights]

Thanks for all the responses. I have 2 older dc who were early readers and very independent in their math work. They actually preferred to figure out the new work on their own, asking for help only when they got stuck. So I guess that's what I am used to. I love "teaching" math but have found that my oldest especially works better when she can just try it on her own first.

 

Okay, so I will sit him. :D

 

Also, thanks for the reassurances about his reading. Him being so different from his two older siblings has made it kinda tricky. I am trying not to freak out to much.

 

"If blending hasn't clicked, attack reading by spelling (SWR/WRTR do this)."

 

I have never heard of either of these resources but they sound like something I should look into. I just keep hoping it will click using the way I did things with the other two, but maybe it's time to try something new.

 

~Jen

[Ellie]

I wouldn't expect a 6yo child to be able to read already. :confused:

 

R&S's first grade arithmetic doesn't require children to read.

 

Neither does Miquon.

[SnegurochkaL]

SWR- Spell to write and read programme. I used it with my oldest child.

http://www.bhibooks.net/home.html

 

I did RightStart A math with my oldest daughter when she was 4. Now she is 8 years old and does Singapore math and MEP math independently. Until this year I was translating a lot of "math language" into her language. She has a tendency reading too fast and skipping some important key points especially doing word problems.

 

If I were you I would continue doing math with your child so he would not miss anything important. I have 4 years old son who is not reading but doing math with mommy.

Edited April 4, 2011 by SneguochkaL

[Ellyndria]

Have you looked at Rightstart math? The child doesn't need to read, aside from perhaps number recognition, and the program works on that too.. especially if you start in the A level, although they work on that in the B level as well. There aren't many worksheets, and when there is, the directions are minimal, and even though my child can read I find myself telling him what to do anyway when I give him a worksheet.

[kalanamak]

Thanks for all the responses. I have 2 older dc who were early readers and very independent in their math work. They actually preferred to figure out the new work on their own, asking for help only when they got stuck. So I guess that's what I am used to. I love "teaching" math but have found that my oldest especially works better when she can just try it on her own first.

 

Okay, so I will sit him. :D

 

Also, thanks for the reassurances about his reading. Him being so different from his two older siblings has made it kinda tricky. I am trying not to freak out to much.

 

"If blending hasn't clicked, attack reading by spelling (SWR/WRTR do this)."

 

I have never heard of either of these resources but they sound like something I should look into. I just keep hoping it will click using the way I did things with the other two, but maybe it's time to try something new.

 

~Jen

 

A less "involved" (ie a single book rather than a whole program) is Phonics Pathways. I, personally, would do that with phonogram flash cards before jumping into the big pond of SWR/WRTR.

[AnthemLights]

I wouldn't expect a 6yo child to be able to read already. :confused:

 

R&S's first grade arithmetic doesn't require children to read.

 

Neither does Miquon.

 

O don't really expect him to be able to read...but progress would be nice. ;)

 

He just has such a hard time even remembering the sounds letters make that I feel like he will never get it. He's got most of them down, but really struggles with the usual culprits (d,p,b,q, g,w,v)

 

I actually think it is mostly a matter of letter recognition. If I tell him what the letters are in a word and then remind him of the vowel sounds he can then figure it out from there. He can read sentences like "A crane can lift a big log" once I give him a few clues...(the long a in crane, the b is a b, the g's are g's)

 

Occasionally the thought of dyslexia has crossed my mind. When he first started writing he would right "right to left" instead of "left to right". He would even write his words mirror image (spelled backwards and the letters themselves formed backwards.) He has largely gotten over this so I think it was just a phase he was going through. :001_smile:

[AnthemLights]

Oh, FWIW, he is going to be doing Mammoth Math. Not sure what level yet. I am going to buy grades 1-6 and just start him off where he fits in.

[FO4UR]

I've got a mathy boy who is not at the same level in reading. Do NOT hold him back in math b/c of his reading!!!

 

Also, reconsider Math Mammoth for him until he's reading better. I've tried quite a bit of it with my ds8, and it is a big-fat-flop mainly b/c of the page lay-out...it's small and dense and works well for my little precocious reader/notsomuch for my *mathy* ds8.

 

Miquon - My ds8 is at an entirely different grade level working Miquon-style!

 

A nuance that I have picked up between Math Mammoth and something like Miquon...Math Mammoth takes the child step-by-tiny-step through the mental math for things (which is excellent!!! for many/most kids)...my ds8 gets the mental math without all that reading/writing and he needs application and practice and a push to take it further conceptually - not the piddly steps in the middle. So, Math Mammoth is like putting a cast on his leg when he scratched his elbow.:confused: (How is THAT for a metaphor...I must need sleep.:lol:) It doesn't meet his true need, and yet is very cumbersome at the same time.

 

That said, I do like Math Mammoth for dd5. She is a workbook-a-phile and can pick it up and do it on her own most of the time.:D

 

If you check my posts about math...I have been all over the place with my 8yo. In fact, I think I posted something similar not long ago LOL...and the advice I took was to keep him forging ahead in math regardless of his reading ability. I'm still not 100% happy/confident with what we are doing...but I am 100% confident that math is one of his strong suits and a program that makes him dread math...or pulls him backwards...isn't a math that we will stick with.

 

If MM works otherwise for you, I would do most of it orally or on a white board and with manipulatives to take away the reading speed bump. You want him fresh for reading lessons...:svengo:

[AnthemLights]

"Also, reconsider Math Mammoth for him until he's reading better. I've tried quite a bit of it with my ds8, and it is a big-fat-flop mainly b/c of the page lay-out...it's small and dense and works well for my little precocious reader/notsomuch for my *mathy* ds8."

 

 

Arghh, I hate reconsidering something once I finally, finally decide on something. But you might be right. I already bought MM, so I am going to try it with him and then go from there.

 

Maybe he will miraculously learn to read over the summer. :tongue_smilie:

[FO4UR]

"Also, reconsider Math Mammoth for him until he's reading better. I've tried quite a bit of it with my ds8, and it is a big-fat-flop mainly b/c of the page lay-out...it's small and dense and works well for my little precocious reader/notsomuch for my *mathy* ds8."

 

 

Arghh, I hate reconsidering something once I finally, finally decide on something. But you might be right. I already bought MM, so I am going to try it with him and then go from there.

 

Maybe he will miraculously learn to read over the summer. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

Just plan on doing most of it orally and/or on a white board to start, and you'll probably be fine.:001_smile:

 

I let mine answer with cuisenaire rods at that age. I still scribe for him a lot (he tells me the answer and I write.) So long as I know what he knows...

[EKS]

Sit next to him and explain everything and read everything and do whatever you have to do to allow him to move ahead with what he does well. If he ends up having a reading problem, it is always good for a child to be able to say to himself, "I may have trouble with reading, but I'm great at math."

 

That's what we did here anyway.

[Cornerstone Classical]

Yep, sit and read it to them. My sweetie girl (8) hates reading and she is just developmentally not "there" yet. She is still reading 1st grade level books. BUT let me tell you, she is almost finished with Saxon 3. A math whiz, and I'm so glad because I know that if she was behind in her other subjects she would have low self esteem issues with school work. I use this to build her up!

 

My son is above grade level in all his school work, and I have to sit with him too. I think I heard somewhere, might have been here on the forums, that you should expect this until after 4th grade, then they will be mature enough to start being required to do some independent work.

[Snowfall]

Well, regardless of reading level, I think sitting with the child and teaching the concepts, working out problems together, is extremely important. I would never recommend letting a child self-teach math, at least in the early years. It's time well invested to make sure the child understands what you are doing and can explain it back to you. After I teach the lesson, I go through the word problems with my son to make sure he understands them, and then I let him work independently. If he misses problems I write them on the whiteboard and have him try again, explaining what he's doing, and I re-teach if necessary.

 

:iagree: My dd couldn't read last year, but she was having no problem working through MEP Yr. 1. Now she can read at a normal first grade level, but I still have to sit with her anyway. Otherwise nothing gets done. :)

[Snowfall]

"Also, reconsider Math Mammoth for him until he's reading better. I've tried quite a bit of it with my ds8, and it is a big-fat-flop mainly b/c of the page lay-out...it's small and dense and works well for my little precocious reader/notsomuch for my *mathy* ds8."

 

 

Arghh, I hate reconsidering something once I finally, finally decide on something. But you might be right. I already bought MM, so I am going to try it with him and then go from there.

 

Maybe he will miraculously learn to read over the summer. :tongue_smilie:

 

I know Maria Miller recently redid the first and second grade levels of MM so there will be larger spaces for writing, fewer problems per page, and more white space on the page, so this might not be necessary for your kid. Lots of kids use the old format with no problem anyway. It just depends on your child.

[Amy Jo]

:iagree: My dd couldn't read last year, but she was having no problem working through MEP Yr. 1. Now she can read at a normal first grade level, but I still have to sit with her anyway. Otherwise nothing gets done. :)

 

Isn't that the truth!

[ange]

My son (7) struggles w/ reading, is strong in math, and we will read Math problems to him (we also let him read as he can). Let me suggest (since you said you went thru a couple of phonics programs) that you see if your son is a Kinesthetic learner. I'm just figuring this out myself. All the time I spent "sitting" with my son or making him "sit to do phonics" may be what has held him back. just a thought.

[boscopup]

I know Maria Miller recently redid the first and second grade levels of MM so there will be larger spaces for writing, fewer problems per page, and more white space on the page, so this might not be necessary for your kid. Lots of kids use the old format with no problem anyway. It just depends on your child.

 

She just updated the first grade, so far (or if she updated the 2nd grade, I don't know about it yet, and we're using the old version! :D).

 

It may not be an issue for your child. If his issue with reading is just a developmental "I can't blend yet" problem, I can't see how the layout of MM would be expected to be a problem. If the issue with reading is a vision issue, then yes, MM could certainly be a problem.

 

My first grader used the old version of MM1 and did fine, despite not being able to write very small yet (writing is his weakness). The only place we had issues was where he was supposed to write number words, and the space to write "twenty-three" was not much bigger than the space required to type that number. There was no way he was going to write in that space. I used scratch paper instead. No big deal. It was just a few pages like that. And if the child can't read yet, I'd probably skip that section altogether (it should be revisited in later years, or you can come back to the grade 1 section when the child can read well).

[RahRah]

DS6 isn't a strong reader (yet) and is into SM 2B....keeping the pace he is capable of in math means he and I sit together to do his lessons each day - sometimes on the white board, sometimes in the workbooks, sometimes (often) just verbally between us. His reading ability shouldn't dictate how quickly he picks up math, nor how well he does with math - while he can't necessarily read the instructions fully, or the word problems, he can do the work, so we do it in a way that allows him to continue learning more math concepts while continuing to learn to read better.