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Ham strikes again...this time he goes after SWB in earnest


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Well, there is a starter kit. One will be sent shortly. Don't worry. We already got word of your new pagan status -- what are good witches for if not tending a crystal ball every now and then? -- and we have your address. Faeries are so handy for that. Bet you never saw them, did you? ;)

 

I have to say, though, that with the huge new rush of sudden pagans in the last few hours, there may be a delay in your delivery kit. Please check it carefully when it does finally arrive. If the goat and 2 chickens didn't make it alive, we can replace them with fresh, and you can keep the dead ones for tossing at your neighbours if you like.

 

Wow, this bein' a pagan is gonna be so cool!!! Thanks, Mr. Ham!

 

Terri

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ugh. Here.

 

 

 

  1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

  2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

  3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

  4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

  5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

  6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

  7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

  8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

  9. The group/leader is always right.

  10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

 

 

Here's another one.

 

 

 

  1. A movement that separates itself from society, either geographically or socially;

  2. Adherents who become increasingly dependent on the movement for their view on reality;

  3. Important decisions in the lives of the adherents are made by others;

  4. Making sharp distinctions between us and them, divine and Satanic, good and evil, etc. that are not open for discussion;

  5. Leaders who claim divine authority for their deeds and for their orders to their followers;

  6. Leaders and movements who are unequivocally focused on achieving a certain goal.

 

 

 

Does he hit all the marks-no, or, I don't know enough about him to know. But by what I've been reading the past few days (not just his FB page, but the history of this whole movement) I think he hits a lot of these.

 

I think there is a zeitgiest out there. People are afraid. There's wars that are horrific, earthquakes, tsunami's and people crying God's judgment. I hear of prophets saying that the worst days for America are nipping at our heels. I think this quest of Ham's is not only motivated by money, but that this is an opportune time because of the fear out there right now. He is using this as a litmus test. If you believe, you're a real Christian, if not, you're an enemy of Christ. He scoffs at those with higher education, he refused a public reprimand, he praises those who follow him in icky ways. He is making himself into a spiritual authority figure. It's not stopping, every day he's coming out with another attack.

 

This is the general pattern of spiritual abuse. It is already the pattern that Doug Philips has established with his church. It hurts a lot of people. I've been in spiritually abusive situations.

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Wow, this bein' a pagan is gonna be so cool!!! Thanks, Mr. Ham!

 

Terri

Now that most of us are pagan, I'm part of the majority. Woo hoo!
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If the goat and 2 chickens didn't make it alive, we can replace them with fresh, and you can keep the dead ones for tossing at your neighbours if you like.

:lol::lol::lol::svengo::willy_nilly:

 

See this kinda stuff needs to be in the pagan hand book. I mean seriously that would have been a big selling point for me.

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:lol::lol::lol::svengo::willy_nilly:

 

See this kinda stuff needs to be in the pagan hand book. I mean seriously that would have been a big selling point for me.

 

What are we supposed to do with the goat and chickens? I live on a city lot, will this be a problem? :tongue_smilie:

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What are we supposed to do with the goat and chickens? I live on a city lot, will this be a problem? :tongue_smilie:

 

Maybe you can get a variance under religious tolerance. Of course when you sling the dead ones at the neighbors that may raise a few eyebrows. Just saying.

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No, we found these guys for you. They don't really exist though. ;)

 

men-in-black-glasses-sunglasses.bmp

 

YES!!!

 

Maybe you can get a variance under religious tolerance. Of course when you sling the dead ones at the neighbors that may raise a few eyebrows. Just saying.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

I'm eagerly anticipating my package.

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What are we supposed to do with the goat and chickens? I live on a city lot, will this be a problem? :tongue_smilie:
I'm allowed three chickens and one small goat without permit. At least I'm pretty sure about the goat. Check your local by-laws.
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Maybe you can get a variance under religious tolerance. Of course when you sling the dead ones at the neighbors that may raise a few eyebrows. Just saying.
My neighbors are mostly radical housewife types and would have the carcasses stripped and meat preserved before you could so much as bat an eye.
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My neighbors are mostly radical housewife types and would have the carcasses stripped and meat preserved before you could so much as bat an eye.

 

Well that take all the fun out of it! :glare:

Edited by ciyates
spelling!
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Well that take all the fun out of it! :glare:

Now if they were GMO goats, or raised on anything other than organic feed... well, then we're taking.

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:iagree:

I cannot support one over the other, because one is being a meanie.

 

 

 

Yet again :iagree:

 

I loved this sentence :lol::lol:

 

kind of sums it up, Ham's behavior has made me feel ill. I do think his behavior highlights his character more than being on the right side (or wrong side) of an argument ever could. I hope after the knee-jerk reaction some Christians seem to be having..that they will think hard about character.

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Well, there is a starter kit. One will be sent shortly. Don't worry. We already got word of your new pagan status -- what are good witches for if not tending a crystal ball every now and then? -- and we have your address. Faeries are so handy for that. Bet you never saw them, did you? ;)

 

I have to say, though, that with the huge new rush of sudden pagans in the last few hours, there may be a delay in your delivery kit. Please check it carefully when it does finally arrive. If the goat and 2 chickens didn't make it alive, we can replace them with fresh, and you can keep the dead ones for tossing at your neighbours if you like.

 

Hey!!! Do I weigh the same as a duck now!!??!?!

 

Yes, but are you part of the Judean People's Front or the People's Front of Judea? The difference is vast, you know. :)

 

 

Judean People's Front of course. I wouldn't DARE to be seen with those People's Front of Judea poopheads!

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What are we supposed to do with the goat and chickens? I live on a city lot, will this be a problem? :tongue_smilie:

 

Well, depending on what brand of pagan you want to be, you can either tend them with love, cook them up with celebration, or rummage through their guts and blood for divination purposes.

 

:lol::lol::lol::svengo::willy_nilly:

 

See this kinda stuff needs to be in the pagan hand book. I mean seriously that would have been a big selling point for me.

 

Sorry. No handbook. You have to figure it out for yourself. :D

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Well, depending on what brand of pagan you want to be, you can either tend them with love, cook them up with celebration, or rummage through their guts and blood for divination purposes.

 

 

 

Sorry. No handbook. You have to figure it out for yourself. :D

 

Then I guess we will have goat's milk and eat a lot of eggs. :D We will name the goat George and we will love him and hug him and squeeze him.

 

Just like parenting, child didn't come with a handbook. My 15.00 bookcase from Walmart had instructions. :toetap05::lol:

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We are losing it!!! :lol:

 

Did you guys see this from urban dictionary? An alternative definition of Kerfuffle-

A cough that makes you fart.

Dayle: Did you just kerfuffle?

Simon: Yeah, but I got the furball out.

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We are losing it!!! :lol:

 

Did you guys see this from urban dictionary? An alternative definition of Kerfuffle-

A cough that makes you fart.

Dayle: Did you just kerfuffle?

Simon: Yeah, but I got the furball out.

 

Oh my goodness! Don't tell my boys!!

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We are losing it!!! :lol:

 

Did you guys see this from urban dictionary? An alternative definition of Kerfuffle-

A cough that makes you fart.

Dayle: Did you just kerfuffle?

Simon: Yeah, but I got the furball out.

OH NO!!!! So that's why my sister posted "Bless you" in response to my putting "Kerfluffle" as my Facebook status! I am so embarassed now!

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What are we supposed to do with the goat and chickens? I live on a city lot, will this be a problem? :tongue_smilie:

 

My cat brought me a (half eaten) bunny last night to "show off" [look mom! I'm feeding myself AND providing for the family!]. Then she proceeded to hook it with a claw and smear blood all over the door step as... protection?

 

I suppose I could send her over...

 

 

a

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I just realized that I've gone from defending Susan to offering the services of my Pagan cat in the same thread. Which is ostensibly about a lunatic, used car salesman-ish appearing guy whom I've never seen in person.

 

Yes, those were ad hominem attacks. However, having worked with the mentally ill for many years, and having bought used cars from some interesting looking people, I stand by my assessment.

 

And I haven't identified a particular guy, so I haven't broken any rules. Pffft.

 

 

asta

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I'm just wondering if some Evangelical Pastor or Peacemakers person... or someone... could possibly talk with Ham?? Seriously!! In other public situations where there are issues like this... a person of integrity, and even with some "like thinking" can talk with someone who may be going over the line... and bring God's Word to them.. encouraging love... and making things right. Is this a possibility?? Could it be that he could apologize for the ways he's handled things, and share what his intent was... (should it have been good to start with??) It seems like he rolled a ball down the hill and just doesn't have the ability to stop it at this point.

Intervention seems necessary :(

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I'm just wondering if some Evangelical Pastor or Peacemakers person... or someone... could possibly talk with Ham?? Seriously!! In other public situations where there are issues like this... a person of integrity, and even with some "like thinking" can talk with someone who may be going over the line... and bring God's Word to them.. encouraging love... and making things right. Is this a possibility?? Could it be that he could apologize for the ways he's handled things, and share what his intent was... (should it have been good to start with??) It seems like he rolled a ball down the hill and just doesn't have the ability to stop it at this point.

Intervention seems necessary :(

 

From this post:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261369

it seems like some are trying to do that.

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Does Ken Ham take the Bible literally when Jesus says in John 6:55-56 "For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him." The Pope takes that literally. :001_smile: That would be my question to Ken Ham, but I would have to "like" his FB page to ask it. Well, maybe....

 

 

Alrightie, I practised impulse-control overnight, but this morning I "liked" KH in order to pose my very sincere question. See, I happen to think Jesus' body and blood is pretty close to the center of my religion, not how long did it take God to make the earth. So actually, I am asking an honest question. Who wants to bet on whether I get a good answer or get deleted? I'll bet you the first outgoing pagan starter kit I get deleted! ;)

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I'm just wondering if some Evangelical Pastor or Peacemakers person... or someone... could possibly talk with Ham?? Seriously!! In other public situations where there are issues like this... a person of integrity, and even with some "like thinking" can talk with someone who may be going over the line... and bring God's Word to them.. encouraging love... and making things right. Is this a possibility?? Could it be that he could apologize for the ways he's handled things, and share what his intent was... (should it have been good to start with??) It seems like he rolled a ball down the hill and just doesn't have the ability to stop it at this point.

Intervention seems necessary :(

That is a good suggestion. Someone on his same level needs to talk to him. I know a couple of people. I will link them here so that they are aware of the kerfluffle. (did I spell that right?)
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Alrightie, I practised impulse-control overnight, but this morning I "liked" KH in order to pose my very sincere question. See, I happen to think Jesus' body and blood is pretty close to the center of my religion, not how long did it take God to make the earth. So actually, I am asking an honest question. Who wants to bet on whether I get a good answer or get deleted? I'll bet you the first outgoing pagan starter kit I get deleted! ;)

Okay, I would like to see and I can't even find KH's facebook page.

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SWB is "not on "his level" because of her heretical views. Wile is out, as well as many, many others. A pastor? It would have to be

 

A) Male

B) Fundy

C) Young earth

 

this would be effective how?

 

I know a couple of people who fit the first three (oh and lets not forget same level of education), but that have responded to my inquiries with love and I have not seen behave rudely to anyone.
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Serious question: What would "his level" mean?

 

My dh, well versed in mediation and forgiveness issues, with a Ph.D. in Clinical Psych and M.A. in theology would not "count" becasue of the psych degree (he's been told he "worships" Freud. HAHAHA. But I digress).

 

SWB is "not on "his level" because of her heretical views. Wile is out, as well as many, many others. A pastor? It would have to be

 

A) Male

B) Fundy

C) Young earth

D) legalistic

E) in agreement with him

 

this would be effective how?

 

Lisa/laughinglioness = still dealing with broken keys

 

I think that 'his level' would be someone, frankly probably some man, who views Scripture the same basic way that he does--6 day creation, young earth, literal Adam and Eve, actual historic Fall into sin. It would have to be someone he can respect as a Christian and a person. That person would also need to be able to be humble, gentle, and loving and to say, "Brother, consider wisely the effects of your actions. Consider the spirit with which you are posting. Consider how bad it makes the Gospel look to post things in haste and then have to take them down because they contained something wrong, incorrect, or unloving. Slow down in your comments, slow down in your postings, pray first, think second, wait on it, and then post. And also, consider the parable of the log and speck, and take responsibility for what you may have done/posted in haste that you now realize sent the wrong message, and apologize for that. Your displaying the fruits of the Spirit in this manner will go far toward making people better able to consider the actual merits of your stances."

 

That would be an approach that he could 'hear', I think.

 

And there are a lot of people who are like that who could approach him that way. Thousands of them. Although it would be most effective if it were someone he already knew and respected who did this. Still, Biblically it is the right thing to do. If I knew him personally, I would be praying about approaching him on this myself.

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Serious question: What would "his level" mean?

 

My dh, well versed in mediation and forgiveness issues, with a Ph.D. in Clinical Psych and M.A. in theology would not "count" becasue of the psych degree (he's been told he "worships" Freud. HAHAHA. But I digress).

 

SWB is "not on "his level" because of her heretical views. Wile is out, as well as many, many others. A pastor? It would have to be

 

A) Male

B) Fundy

C) Young earth

D) legalistic

E) in agreement with him

 

this would be effective how?

 

Lisa/laughinglioness = still dealing with broken keys

 

My Pastors are out - they're both female. Not sure about our youth Pastor but I don't think he'd work as he's not legalistic in the slightest. My former Pastor just got his Doctorate in Theology (earned not honorary) but he's not legalistic either - in fact he's allergic.

 

Ok, I don't have anyone. Dr. Wile's gentle admonishment was treated as a personal attack.

 

I do pray someone gives him guidance soon. That cartoon was so bad I refuse to read anything else on his facebook page or blog.

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