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NanceXToo

Teaching Textbooks- Got Standardized Test Results Back.

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I just bit the bullet and ordered TT3. It looks like the resale value holds, since the ones on Ebay are getting sold for ridiculous prices. Might as well buy new. Now of course I will see a bunch on the For sale boards since I bought it new. :D

 

Can't wait to use it. Right before I ordered it I had my son try a sample lesson again and asked him if he wanted to do this math instead of what we are doing, and he loved it, and wanted it, so we will see. But hopefully this will get me off the math switching train of thought.

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I'm on the fence with TT for next year.

 

Ds is working through TT6, he's doing great and likes it. He's starting to get bored with it though. He skipped from Horizons 3 (and we don't did half a year) to TT6. He's very mathy. So now, I'm on the fence of moving him up to Pre Algebra or going with TT 7, or going with Life of Fred for a bit.

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Forgive me for bumping this but I'd like for it to stick around a bit longer. For one, it's curriculum buying/fall-planning season, and for another I just read a thread where people were (again) worried about TT being "behind" and so if there are people considering TT who haven' seen this yet, well, I'd like for them to. :)

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Thanks for posting this! I just did the samples with my kids today. My daughter worked for 45 minutes doing math. When she quit, she said I really like that! She is 8.

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I just went with TT for next year. So happy to hear.:D I heard it was behind also. :glare: As soon as I got it in the mail the kids opened it and wanted to start:tongue_smilie: that is very exciting both of my kids have done a few lessons and call it fun. :D and are getting great grade. LOving it.

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Ds used TT after going through 6th with Abeka. He was nearky two years "ahead" of TT "grade level." For those concerned with it being "behind," why not just let dc work at their own pace (assuming that is a minimum of one lesson daily) and then they would be "ahead." Seems like an obvious solution to me. :)

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I'll add fuel to this; my son has used TT 4, 5, and 6. He scored in the 97th percentile in math on the Terra Nova this year. Last year he was 96th percentile on the Terra Nova, after using TT. Just so you know it is consistent, not just a fluke. I would not consider him a mathy child at all, he has always been a very strong reader, writer, and talker LOL. He is good at math, but it isn't his strongest area.

YAY TT!

I put my daughter in TT 3 this year, too. It has been really good for her! Too early for testing her though!

Edited by lovetobehome
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I'll add fuel to this; my son has used TT 4, 5, and 6. He scored in the 97th percentile in math on the Terra Nova this year.

YAY TT!

I put my daughter in TT 3 this year, too. It has been really good for her! Too early for testing her though!

 

Awesome!! Thanks for sharing that! I'd love to see TT start getting a better rap than it has been so that the families who have the type of kids who would definitely benefit from it don't have to be afraid to use it. :)

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My youngest son loves TT! He's used TT Math 5, 6, and 7 and is now using TT PreAlgebra.

 

He earned perfect scores on the math section of his 6th grade CAT test just a few weeks ago!

 

I even tried out Chalkdust with him for awhile but he hated it and wanted TT back! (Thank goodness, I had bought the curriculum used and will be able to resell it without losing any money on the deal).

 

My oldest son also uses TT. He has high functioning autism so, for him, it's the easiest to use because the computer doesn't get tired of repeating the lesson over again if he doesn't understand it the first time. :)

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This whole thread is soooo helpful, thank you.

 

I have been seriously considering TT3 for my oldest next year. We use Singapore, and it works, and I do love it...*but* next year there will also be a 1st grader, a Kindergartener and a fireball toddler in our HS. AND we are moving in November. We use SL and many supplements, and this is appealing largely because it would give me a bit of a break to use with the younger DC's on their earlier math journey while also giving my older dc some independence.

 

I recently read a negative review of TT (Algebra level) on SL's forum, so have been wavering. However, I must remind myself that all children are different.........

 

Thanks to all who have shared!

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Thank you SO much for posting this. I switched my daughter to TT this year because Math Mammoth (which for the record I DO think is excellent for math-minded individuals) was starting to send her into tears. She is in 2nd grade (but an older 2nd grader) and I put her on TT3 and it has been like night and day.

 

I am actually thinking of putting my youngest child who IS mathy and will be entering 1st grade, on TT3 next year, and wondering if that seems crazy. She has already completed Math Mammoth 1 with no problem but she LOVES being on the computer. I'm wondering if the program would be a good fit for a 'mathy' kid if you did it 1-2 years ahead.

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I have been enjoying this thread. I switched my 5th grader to TT in the fall. He placed in TT7, but I put him in TT6 to build confidence. He was able to ace the quizzes for a while so I let him skip the lessons up to a point that he could no longer make an A on the quiz. He finished 6 and has moved on to 7. He will probably finish 7 and start Pre-Alg in January.

 

TT has brought much for harmony to this house. I am an accountant, but have a hard time teaching math to my non-mathy child. This has helped our relationship because math would cause us both much frustration with each other. I do supplement in areas which he seems to be weak. I tried supplementing with the MM blue series, but MM doesn't click with this kid. Key to Fractions seems to be working okay for now.

 

Now, my ds finishing up MM2 asked for his own "computer math" like his brother's. I got TT4 for him and he is really liking it. Dd is finishing up MM1 and asking for TT as well. I will probably get her TT3. I will make MM the main program for these two dc and let TT be educational computer time that is not required, but available.

 

I have never done testing, but am considering the SAT this summer since I can facilitate it at home. I am anxious to see how my oldest does.

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This has helped our relationship because math would cause us both much frustration with each other.

 

Yes, this is a really key point, too! I know that if I were trying to teach math myself and I was having a hard time getting something across (by reading and translating a textbook) in a way that my daughter could understand it, I'd get frustrated. As much with myself as her, but I know that it would show, and all that would probably do would be to make her confidence levels drop and have a negative effect on our relationship, and on our attitude about school being fun in general. Which is an attitude we DO like to try to have. SO not worth it.

 

Using TT and allowing her to do math more independently with "someone else" teaching her so to speak avoids all of that and has worked out beautifully all year.

 

And I get to focus my school time with her on the things she either needs more help with or that we really just enjoy doing together instead of spending it on something as potentially frustrating as math (and then having that frustration turn into some sort of bad mood that might carry over into other parts of our day)... no thanks!

 

By the way...

 

I am looking forward to seeing more updates in this thread from those of you who hadn't yet tested or gotten results when I originally posted this to see if more of you had the same experience with getting good results on standardized tests after using TT. :)

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WE STARTED USING tt 5 THIS YEAR . i was also told that it was behind a grade level. my daughter is in 4th grade and we began the year with right start math. i liked it, but way too time consuming seeing i have 2 other children i am teaching. so a friend urged me to go right inTO TT 5. we did. she did fine at first but then we had to put it away for 2 months and solidify those X's tables... we used and awesome program called TIMES TALES to do that. if you have a struggling multiplication and division student, i highyl recommend it. anyway, we used those and she went back to the TT. so we are almost 3/4 of the way thru and we have put it down again to let her do pratice sheets of double digit multiplication again. needless to say, i LOVE the TT and i think the grade levels are more "on" than most people think. when compared to most math curriculums, you are right on mark, if you are comparing to singapore or some of the other more advanced maths, well it may seem behind. so unless you have a little mathmatician, i would stay at grade level. you can finish 1 years work in less than a year and they can advance that way too...

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Thank you Nance!

LOVE TT and it is worth every dime.

:iagree:It gets us started instead of dragging our start time out. It has given DD motivation and confidence in all areas of school, not just math. She is on lesson 5, so let's see if it stays this way.

 

Oh, we have to supplement since she isn't at grade level and it may take us more than the typical school year to get through this level.

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We also just got our scores back from the CAT 5.

DD 12 Math Computation-94/ Math concepts- 91..She is one who has struggled in the past with math.

DS 8 Math computation-95/ Math concepts-96...

I have one in college that used TT all the way through Pre-calc and she did well in her college calculus class.

Can you tell I am sold:)

Lora in NC

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We are using TT this year for the first time. I agonized over using it because of the bad rap it sometimes gets. I went with it as a last-ditch effort to salvage math for my dd 12. My ds 13 started this year with Saxon and did horribly. I ended up switching him to TT in Nov.

 

We got our scores from the ITBS yesterday. I was really curious as to how they would score on math. I think they did pretty well.

 

My dd's scores were:

Concepts & Estimation 89th percentile

Prob. solving & Data interp.: 75th percentile

Math Computation: 99th percentile

Math Total: 83rd percentile

 

I should add that she is NOT mathy and had cried over math daily before TT.

 

My ds's scores were:

Concepts & Estimation: 88th percentile

Prob. Solv. & Data Interp.: 77th percentile

Math Computation: 96th percentile

Math Total: 83rd percentile

 

He is working at grade level in TT. My dd is working 1 year ahead.

 

Overall I am pleased with their scores and will continue with TT. I supplement with Daily Word Problems, Math Minute, & Spectrum Math. I'm thinking I'll switch up what we're using for problem solving, but otherwise won't really change anything.

 

Gayle

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We are using TT this year for the first time. I agonized over using it because of the bad rap it sometimes gets. I went with it as a last-ditch effort to salvage math for my dd 12. My ds 13 started this year with Saxon and did horribly. I ended up switching him to TT in Nov.

 

We got our scores from the ITBS yesterday. I was really curious as to how they would score on math. I think they did pretty well.

 

My dd's scores were:

Concepts & Estimation 89th percentile

Prob. solving & Data interp.: 75th percentile

Math Computation: 99th percentile

Math Total: 83rd percentile

 

I should add that she is NOT mathy and had cried over math daily before TT.

 

My ds's scores were:

Concepts & Estimation: 88th percentile

Prob. Solv. & Data Interp.: 77th percentile

Math Computation: 96th percentile

Math Total: 83rd percentile

 

He is working at grade level in TT. My dd is working 1 year ahead.

 

Overall I am pleased with their scores and will continue with TT. I supplement with Daily Word Problems, Math Minute, & Spectrum Math. I'm thinking I'll switch up what we're using for problem solving, but otherwise won't really change anything.

 

Gayle

 

Thanks for posting his scores, I like the simplicity of TT for me but I always worry its not enough but seeing another kid doing well with it helps reinforce its a good program no matter how simple it appears.

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Gayle, those are very good scores! Even more so as you mention them not being mathy! Our kids who are not mathy and who are using a program many people worry isn't good enough are managing to pull good test scores right up there with kids using various other programs- and having fun and not struggling while using it. All while building confidence. TT is worth its weight in gold as far as I am concerned!

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We are using TT this year for the first time. I agonized over using it because of the bad rap it sometimes gets. I went with it as a last-ditch effort to salvage math for my dd 12. My ds 13 started this year with Saxon and did horribly. I ended up switching him to TT in Nov.

 

We got our scores from the ITBS yesterday. I was really curious as to how they would score on math. I think they did pretty well.

 

My dd's scores were:

Concepts & Estimation 89th percentile

Prob. solving & Data interp.: 75th percentile

Math Computation: 99th percentile

Math Total: 83rd percentile

 

I should add that she is NOT mathy and had cried over math daily before TT.

 

My ds's scores were:

Concepts & Estimation: 88th percentile

Prob. Solv. & Data Interp.: 77th percentile

Math Computation: 96th percentile

Math Total: 83rd percentile

 

He is working at grade level in TT. My dd is working 1 year ahead.

 

Overall I am pleased with their scores and will continue with TT. I supplement with Daily Word Problems, Math Minute, & Spectrum Math. I'm thinking I'll switch up what we're using for problem solving, but otherwise won't really change anything.

 

Gayle

 

Those are great scores! I am happy to hear them. We are starting TT pre-algebra next year.

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I'm thinking I'll switch up what we're using for problem solving, but otherwise won't really change anything.

 

Gayle

 

Do you have any idea what you might use for problem solving? Our state requires us to do the problem solving and data interpretation part of of the ITBS every year from 3rd to 9th grade. I am considering TT for next year (5th grade) but would like to supplement in this area.

 

Thanks!

Angela

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Nance, thanks very much for this post! We are looking for something to take away the math tears, and had hoped TT would be it, based on several recommendations. Then I started reading about how "behind" or not rigorous the program is, and had some doubts. Your post makes me think it's worth a try, after all!

 

Any opinions on whether or not to get the workbooks with the program?

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Nance, thanks very much for this post! We are looking for something to take away the math tears, and had hoped TT would be it, based on several recommendations. Then I started reading about how "behind" or not rigorous the program is, and had some doubts. Your post makes me think it's worth a try, after all!

 

Any opinions on whether or not to get the workbooks with the program?

 

We got the workbook for TT5, we still skip the book for TT6 since my dd does better with a white board then books.

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Nance, thanks very much for this post! We are looking for something to take away the math tears, and had hoped TT would be it, based on several recommendations. Then I started reading about how "behind" or not rigorous the program is, and had some doubts. Your post makes me think it's worth a try, after all!

 

Any opinions on whether or not to get the workbooks with the program?

 

My children like the workbooks better than the CDs. My son did the Algebra only in the workbook.

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We too had good test results using TT. We use it a year ahead, (I used TT3 for a 2nd grader last year), and the results were about the same as your daughter's.

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Ok, I just want to preface this by saying it is NOT my intention to be a downer on this thread, because I love TT, but thought I should mention our issues this year.

 

I do not really "speak Math" very well, though my husband is a math-natural. Since I'm the primary teacher here, however, we decided to use TT because it allowed my son to learn independently. All year long, TT was the first thing DS wanted to do in the morning, and it was the one subject he finished the quickest. His average grade in the program was 96%. So I finished off the year happy with how things had gone.

 

That is, I was happy, my son was happy UNTIL we started taking practice tests for the CAT. (our state requires that he be given a SOL test of our choice at the end of the year) The practice CAT had questions involving the area of triangles, square roots, and a few other things I'm sure I'm forgetting. DS was in fits because TT6 didn't cover these things. (DS is a Type A perfectionist; he becomes pretty anxious with traditional tests.)

 

I fully admit that part of this could have been pre-test jitters; he temporarily forgot all that he'd learned about greatest common factors and least common multiples during the first practice test. We ended up using the practice tests to go over what he wasn't confident about and he did do very well on his CAT test. (I actually don't have the scores in front of me. My apologies)

 

But DS's confidence in the program is torn. When we did our post-year review of our curriculum choices, he asked if we could find a program that taught everything on the tests so he wouldn't freak out at the end of the year. Again, I think the majority of this is test taking nervousness. But to help him feel more confident about it, I told him we'd get him a Life of Fred book to do with TT. (he may not need it, but eh. More math can't hurt, if that's what he wants to do, right? :D )

 

I also plan on going over the state's standards of learning and comparing them with the TT table of contents... just to be sure.

 

ANYWAY. That's my wishy-washy experience there. I'm sure if we had just taken the test without practicing first, he would have passed just fine. But DS doesn't like not knowing what to expect and doesn't like answering questions to subjects he's never worked on before.

 

ALSO, Also: Last year was our first year homeschooling, and my daughter uses a different program. (MUS) So I'm a newb. That right there might give you pause to ignore everything I just wrote. Uh... maybe I should have mentioned that first? Heh.

Edited by Jabberwocky

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We love teaching textbooks here.. I feel that their Math Levels (for 3, 4, and 5 because that is what we have used) are pretty much on par with public schools around here..for concepts taught etc..with perhaps some slight lag as we got towards the end of Math 4.. Because of that, I had DS do Math 5 this summer on an accelerated schedule and he will use Math 6 this year (for 5th grade)...I think this matches up better with much of what is being taught locally in 5th grade math..

Either way, he has always tested very well on the Cat/E for math..we tried several different programs (MUS, RIght Start, Abeka etc).. and this fits us the best.. but I did feel that their Math 4 was a bit lagging behind in what was being tested on the Cat/E for 4th grade.. although it wasn't enough to cause his score to tank.. (double digit long division was the killer..and was not covered in math 4.. but was on the test)

 

 

so, from now on.. We will probably use a grade ahead for TT (so Math 4 in 3rd grade etc)

just my 2 cents

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As a second generation homeschool parent, who has had PLENTY of practice on the receiving end of CAT tests, and as a trained special education teacher- let me just tell you that the CAT test covers MORE than just what is covered in any given curriculum. As a matter of fact, the same exact test is usually used for more than one grade level. That's the way the test can show when a student has knowledge above and beyond the material presented in the school. Achievement tests, unlike diagnostic or placement tests, include a wide variety of problems, some of which are intentionally harder than the student is accustomed to seeing in class. If your son understands that those are questions an older student would answer correctly and that he's NOT expected to answer them correctly it may help him in the future.

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{...} Achievement tests, unlike diagnostic or placement tests, include a wide variety of problems, some of which are intentionally harder than the student is accustomed to seeing in class. If your son understands that those are questions an older student would answer correctly and that he's NOT expected to answer them correctly it may help him in the future.

 

HA! Well THAT would have been helpful to know a couple of weeks ago. :001_rolleyes:

 

That's great. I'll have to let the punk know when he gets home this afternoon. (he's out fishing with Dad) He'll get a kick out of that.

Edited by Jabberwocky
Removing question about CAT tests, just realized it's pretty off topic. :)

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As a second generation homeschool parent, who has had PLENTY of practice on the receiving end of CAT tests, and as a trained special education teacher- let me just tell you that the CAT test covers MORE than just what is covered in any given curriculum. As a matter of fact, the same exact test is usually used for more than one grade level.

 

I was going to say, most standardized tests deliberately include content a grade level or two above the grade level being tested, in order to assess the threshold of the student's knowledge - so it shouldn't necessarily be the goal to know *everything* on the test.

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We use the OM for core but are doing TT for math and just using the OM math for additional practice problems. Good to hear this, thanks for sharing :)

Edited by HollyM

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I was going to say, most standardized tests deliberately include content a grade level or two above the grade level being tested, in order to assess the threshold of the student's knowledge - so it shouldn't necessarily be the goal to know *everything* on the test.

 

That just cracks me up. Here DS was panicking because square roots hadn't been covered. (he DID actually know what square roots were, he'd been listening to his sister do MUS Algebra. :D )

 

Well then! I stand corrected! TT is "da' bomb" and I recommend it to everyone.

 

(did I just date myself? I think I just dated myself. My daughter would be shaking her head right now.)

Edited by Jabberwocky

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I was going to say, most standardized tests deliberately include content a grade level or two above the grade level being tested, in order to assess the threshold of the student's knowledge - so it shouldn't necessarily be the goal to know *everything* on the test.

 

This is not the case with the math on the ITBS. My son took the fifth grade ITBS this year and most of the math on it could be done by a third grader who had mastered third grade material. A few questions required fourth grade skills. None required what I would consider to be fifth grade skills.

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This is not the case with the math on the ITBS. My son took the fifth grade ITBS this year and most of the math on it could be done by a third grader who had mastered third grade material. A few questions required fourth grade skills. None required what I would consider to be fifth grade skills.

 

That's interesting. Is the ITBS used outside of Iowa?

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For those of you that use TT, do you have your kids use the workbooks, only do the problems on the computer, or copy the equations on to paper and then do them? I am trying to decide on which package to purchase.

 

I have my son do some of the problems in the workbook as opposed to all on-screen as I know him and I know he needs to write things out to understand them sometimes. We have the workbook because I wasn't sure if it was needed but honestly, you could easily just do it on paper of your choice.

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For those of you that use TT, do you have your kids use the workbooks, only do the problems on the computer, or copy the equations on to paper and then do them? I am trying to decide on which package to purchase.

 

I have my son do some of the problems in the workbook as opposed to all on-screen as I know him and I know he needs to write things out to understand them sometimes. We have the workbook because I wasn't sure if it was needed but honestly, you could easily just do it on paper of your choice.

 

My son loves the computer program, and I like having grades checked automatically. As for the written problems, he has a spiral bound math book that's used as "scratch" to write the problems out. If he gets the problem wrong twice, I can see his work and see where he went wrong.

 

Still, some kids really prefer to use the books. Really, it's up to your son and how he learns best.

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Has anyone switched over to Teaching Textbooks from a different type of math program (e.g., Saxon)? I have a student starting 3rd grade Saxon (loves math) and a student starting 7/6 Saxon (doesn't love math), and am considering Teaching Textbooks instead. The 6th grader has used the Saxon Compass DiveCD, which was a great resource.

If you have switched from a Saxon-type program, did you jump a grade? I am wondering about placement coming from Saxon and its different approach to math learning.

Also, any feedback about Mammoth Math in terms of its user-friendliness (for the teacher) compared to TT?

Thank you.

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Has anyone switched over to Teaching Textbooks from a different type of math program (e.g., Saxon)? I have a student starting 3rd grade Saxon (loves math) and a student starting 7/6 Saxon (doesn't love math), and am considering Teaching Textbooks instead. The 6th grader has used the Saxon Compass DiveCD, which was a great resource.

If you have switched from a Saxon-type program, did you jump a grade? I am wondering about placement coming from Saxon and its different approach to math learning.

Also, any feedback about Mammoth Math in terms of its user-friendliness (for the teacher) compared to TT?

Thank you.

 

I can't comment on Mammoth. My son switched to TT from Saxon. Saxon was being used at his private school before we began homeschooling.

 

Before switching, we used the PDF placement tests on the TT website to make sure we were picking the right grade for him. The skill level seemed to be spot on.

 

As for DS, his comments about the change were that TT was "more fun" and "made sense". In grown-up words, that means that it was presented to him in a way that he picked up on quickly. I never felt that he needed extra practice.

 

However, my son likes to do math, sometimes he makes up problems on his own, just to see if he can figure them out in his head.

 

He's a bit of a weirdie.

 

I was not at all a fan of Saxon. It seemed like a lot of busy-work presented in a dry and sometimes convoluted manner. My daughter, who is not at all a math person, switched from Saxon to MUS and is thrilled with that change as well. So if TT is not for you, you may want to try MUS.

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That's interesting. Is the ITBS used outside of Iowa?

 

Yes. It is a nationally normed test.

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.

 

That is, I was happy, my son was happy UNTIL we started taking practice tests for the CAT. (our state requires that he be given a SOL test of our choice at the end of the year) The practice CAT had questions involving the area of triangles, square roots, and a few other things I'm sure I'm forgetting. DS was in fits because TT6 didn't cover these things. (DS is a Type A perfectionist; he becomes pretty anxious with traditional tests.)

 

 

 

This year we were horrified when we saw the practice STAR test books (the California standardized test). The problems were so difficult it was apparent that they were way above grade level. We haven't received our results back yet, but the actual test had to be easier than the practice book! (I have a science degree and had a difficult time answering many of the science questions in the 5th grade book. This was almost college level material!)

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This year we were horrified when we saw the practice STAR test books (the California standardized test). The problems were so difficult it was apparent that they were way above grade level. We haven't received our results back yet, but the actual test had to be easier than the practice book! (I have a science degree and had a difficult time answering many of the science questions in the 5th grade book. This was almost college level material!)

 

We live in California and my children took the STAR test last year. My ds was in 6th and dd in 4th. DS in 6th used TT 7 last year for his 6th grade, and TT 6 for his 5th grade year. He scored Advanced on the STAR test both years. Just wanted to share. (DD used Rightstart and also scored Advanced. We are switching her to TT 6 this year after completing Level E which is the same thing we did with ds.)

 

Also, I should add that my son used to HATE Math. Math has not come easy for him. Maybe it was developmental or maybe he just struggled with Math. But once we added Rightstart in 4th and TT in 5th (we used MUS before) his understanding and scores improved. Now he thinks he's good at Math! He used to say he was terrible. :sad: Last year he used TT 7 alone. He will be using TT PreAlgebra this year.

 

TT is working for us so far.!

Kim

Edited by noashmam
posted before done.
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We live in California and my children took the STAR test last year. My ds was in 6th and dd in 4th. DS in 6th used TT 7 last year for his 6th grade, and TT 6 for his 5th grade year. He scored Advanced on the STAR test both years. Just wanted to share. (DD used Rightstart and also scored Advanced. We are switching her to TT 6 this year after completing Level E which is the same thing we did with ds.)

 

 

 

I just received my STAR test results today and my son who did the TT Algebra 1 scored Advanced. I'm happy with the program.

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My 6th grader and 8th grader did TT Pre-Algebra last year.

 

The 6th grader scored Advanced in math.

 

The 8th grader scored 50% in Algebra 1, which I thought was excellent considering he'd only had Pre-Algebra.:D

 

Teaching Textbooks have been great for us. We don't use the CD-ROMs, as the voice is incredibly annoying, but the books are very readable and self-explanatory.

 

I just purchased TT Algebra 1.:driving:

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My 6th grader and 8th grader did TT Pre-Algebra last year.

 

The 6th grader scored Advanced in math.

 

The 8th grader scored 50% in Algebra 1, which I thought was excellent considering he'd only had Pre-Algebra.:D

 

Teaching Textbooks have been great for us. We don't use the CD-ROMs, as the voice is incredibly annoying, but the books are very readable and self-explanatory.

 

I just purchased TT Algebra 1.:driving:

 

My son also does not like the CDs so I am only going to be using the book for him for Geometry this year (he didn't use the CDs for Algebra). That makes it much more cost effective.

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